Sleep Issues - A Question

[2Sox]

Recently I've had difficulty sleeping and I'm wondering what could be the cause or causes as they are related to my TRT protocol - or something else.

No matter what time I go to bed, I awake at first light. My solution has been to go to sleep earlier but there are other things. I am also waking up more often during the night - and not only to urinate. Sometimes I just pop awake after sleeping three hours. I get back to sleep but I feel I'm not sleeping "well". The result has been that I feel like I'm not at my optimum all day. I feel tired. If I can take a nap, I'm a different person - extremely energetic.

When I began TRT almost two years ago, one of the first things I noticed was how much better and longer I was able to sleep. But recently the above situation has developed.

I do not have new or added stresses in my life. My wife and I are more in love now than ever - and we're also having more sex now too. (She's on HRT also). I'm retired so my days are my own.

The only thing I can think of that has changed is my TRT protocol - which essentially is the same but now I do daily, low dose injections of 15mg T Cyp and 100iu hCG. By the way, I haven't had blood work done since this change so I'm curious to see the results.

I also work out at the gym daily for an average of two hours each day. I'm not a power lifter. I work for definition and slight bulk. I'm 154 lbs and 5'6" and that's fine for me. THIS is the only thing I can think of - other than daily TRT - that can be affecting my sleep.

I take 3mg melatonin each night and sometimes GABA with it. I also have a cup of chamomile tea on the bed stand to sip when I awake at night.

I'm be interested in hearing the experiences of others on this - and of course - advice.

[APIs]

Right there with you. I've always had trouble sleeping the last few years. It's just me, as when I lie down I immediately start thinking about my business and what needs to be done the next day. I've found Ambien to be a great product. Only 5 mgs nightly and my sleep has improved dramatically. I also use a white-noise machine I purchased at Bed, Bath & Beyond and it helps a lot too. Dont know the implications of being on Ambien long-term, but I'll gladly take it...

[nyjetsfan]

2sox- does your wife say you snore? Sleep apnea kept me waking up until I went for a sleep study and got a cpap. I did start snoring more after being on trt no doubt. Blood pressure is lower and I sleep better among other benefits.

[jwh7699]

Check on the sleep apnea. I take 10mg of melatonin to help me sleep. I also found for some reason when I drink a casein shake a half hour before bed it helps me sleep longer through the night, not always, but most of the time.

Tried ambien years ago. Gave me horrible vivd nightmares. Won't take it again.

Good Luck!!

[CobraMustangSVT]

2sox- does your wife say you snore? Sleep apnea kept me waking up until I went for a sleep study and got a cpap. I did start snoring more after being on trt no doubt. Blood pressure is lower and I sleep better among other benefits.

Bingo. Sleep apnea got me a few months into it. I got a CPAP and that fixed it.

Can you get a sleep study done?

[Ryanmcd]

For me if my levels are higher 1000+ I have issues with sleep and feel more "plugged in" I would get bloodwork and see I bet E2 or Test are outa wack. Also carbs @ bedtime help me sleep too.

[Ccdiesel]

I'm having the same issues. Test or e2 get high and sleep suffers a lot.

[bullshark99]

2sox I think a lot of people could relate, if I had to make a guess I would prob sat sleep apnea as it is far more common than people realize. My situation is much like API in that I go to bed and my brain won't turn off thinking about work the next day and what needs to be done. I have used ambien for almost ten years now and will say its a god sent but beware, your body will adapt and it won't work as well and frankly that scares me because I don't believe there is a plan B?

[Rusty11]

Sometimes it's just age. Soon after turning 50, there it was-insomnia. No sleep apnea. No stress. No drama. Just started having difficulty falling asleep. I went months with0-4 hrs most nights. Hopefully your issue can be solved w/out a rx sleep aid. Good luck.

[rollingthunder]

sleep difficulties are quite common as we get older. i take a number of natural supplements to help me sleep - melatonin, 5htp, tryptophan, glycine. and for the tough nights...alprazolam!

[2Sox]

Wow! Just got in and read all your replies. Thank you so much for your comments!

Yes, I do indeed snore and it has made it difficult for my wife to fall asleep. So I got this comfortable chin/head strap to keep my mouth shut! It has helped a very great deal but she says I sometimes make noises even with it on. I've been taking it off when I get up in the middle of the night so I wonder if I kept it on all night my sleep might improve.

It never occurred to me that this might be sleep apnea. I always thought "other people" suffered from it. But it seems I exhibit the symptoms. My wife is a PA, her brother has sleep apnea, and her mother just passed from pulmonary hypertension (and other issues) so she's very versed on these medical conditions. I plan on discussing this with her.

In the meantime, I will definitely increase my melatonin dose and GABA dose (of which I have only been taking 1/2 tablet) and also look into 5htp, tryptophan, glycine.

I have taken Ambien once or twice and I don't do well with it at all. I think it affects REM sleep and dreams and the next day I feel paranoid. Never again. And I definitely do NOT want to take any other Rx sleep aid.

Just to clarify: I fall asleep dead as a stone. It's staying asleep that's the issue.

Thanks again for your input guys.

[rollingthunder]

as a follow up - i find that if i have some protein before bed - cottage cheese, whey protein shake, that kind of thing - that it helps me stay asleep. carbs help me fall asleep, protein helps me stay asleep.

[Score]

I've found mornings I don't awake with morning wood are also nights I've gotten up multiple times to urinate.

With your new protocol are you still awaking with morning wood?

[2Sox]

I've found mornings I don't awake with morning wood are also nights I've gotten up multiple times to urinate.

With your new protocol are you still awaking with morning wood?

Yep, morning and evening - when my E2 is under control.

[Score]

Yep, morning and evening - when my E2 is under control.

Are you taking cyp still?

Should you switch to a shorter ester now that you going daily?

Maybe your levels are steadier with daily but they could also be lower now? Old symptoms returning?

[BallSak]

How's your evening cortisol numbers?

Have you had your progesterone levels checked? A little progesterone taken at night does wonders for sleep. It also helps keep E2 in check.

[lovbyts]

I snore even after having the uvula cut several years ago. I don't recommend it, hurts like hell and doesn't help.

I did the whole sleep apnea thing and now have my cpap machine on craigslist. I cant stand the damn thing and it ends up not being the problem. With me I kept waking ever 1hr or less because of Fibromyalgia.

How do you feel when you wake up or get up in the morning? I know you arent rested but are you sore, stiff, joints hurt?

[Score]

How are you doing 2Sox?

Change the daily protocol?

[2Sox]

I snore even after having the uvula cut several years ago. I don't recommend it, hurts like hell and doesn't help.

I did the whole sleep apnea thing and now have my cpap machine on craigslist. I cant stand the damn thing and it ends up not being the problem. With me I kept waking ever 1hr or less because of Fibromyalgia.

How do you feel when you wake up or get up in the morning? I know you arent rested but are you sore, stiff, joints hurt?

When I awake and I know I haven't slept well, I just feel tired. No unusual soreness or stiffness - at least for my age. When I've slept well and enough, I feel really good and ready to take on things.

Score,
Thanks for asking. I like my daily protocol and will continue with it. I have purchased those "Breath Right" nose strips and also eye shades - which arrive soon. I'm hopeful that these, in combination with the chin strap, will improve things.

[luciuswillson]

I have a cPap machine and I sleep great. The problem my doctor said is many people associate sleep apnea with being obese and fat person's problem but she state that was not always the case. She said the number one contributing factor for sleep apnea was a neck circumference above 16/17 in. I have above a 16 no matter what weight I am. I know some people can't sleep with the machine on but I have never had that problem.

[2Sox]

I have a cPap machine and I sleep great. The problem my doctor said is many people associate sleep apnea with being obese and fat person's problem but she state that was not always the case. She said the number one contributing factor for sleep apnea was a neck circumference above 16/17 in. I have above a 16 no matter what weight I am. I know some people can't sleep with the machine on but I have never had that problem.

At 154lbs and a 15 1/2 inch neck - at most - I don't have that factor. I worked out in the sun most of the day yesterday, was bone tired and slept eight hours! Feeling pretty good.

[thisAngelBites]

Just to throw this out there with all the other suggestions: I sleep the same way when I take too much melatonin. I used to take 2 or 3 mg tabs, but then my sleep changed, where I was up super early, and where I would wake up after three or four hours sleep.

Someone suggested a lower dose and that worked very well for me and now sometimes I take as little as 125 micrograms (sometimes more), and it works much, much better for me in that the sleep is not disrupted, and I don't get headaches (which I started to get at the higher doses).

Just something to throw out there in case the higher dose doesn't do what you want.

[rollingthunder]

Someone suggested a lower dose and that worked very well for me and now sometimes I take as little as 125 micrograms (sometimes more), and it works much, much better for me in that the sleep is not disrupted, and I don't get headaches (which I started to get at the higher doses).

Just something to throw out there in case the higher dose doesn't do what you want.

good thought "angel". more is not always better.

[dhickey]

I've battled insomnia for more years than I can remember. At one time it was getting to sleep. More recently it's waking up at 3:30 and not being able to fall completely back to sleep, just kind of lie there half asleep. I've tried just a ton of different things. Some worked, some didn't. Biotest Z-12 worked for awhile and then didn't.

I like time release Melatonin from LEF. I also take 50mg of Trazadone. It's non-hypnotic and really mild for a prescription. I've also started taking 100mg of Mod GRF and GHRP-2 at night. This combo works pretty good most of the time. I still get spells for a couple days here and there. Probably because of my messed up thyroid and cortisol levels.

[2Sox]

Just to throw this out there with all the other suggestions: I sleep the same way when I take too much melatonin. I used to take 2 or 3 mg tabs, but then my sleep changed, where I was up super early, and where I would wake up after three or four hours sleep.

Someone suggested a lower dose and that worked very well for me and now sometimes I take as little as 125 micrograms (sometimes more), and it works much, much better for me in that the sleep is not disrupted, and I don't get headaches (which I started to get at the higher doses).

Just something to throw out there in case the higher dose doesn't do what you want.

This is exceedingly useful information! This is precisely because my recent sleep issues coincide with when I started taking melatonin every night! What you describe is what happened.

Stopping melatonin - starting tonight! Never had a problem falling asleep. Will report back.

[thisAngelBites]

I hope it works for you. Reading this forum I have seen huge ranges in melatonin doses and I know the large doses taken by some would make me feel awful, and I am sure the low doses I take would do nothing for the people who take more - so it's one of those very individual things.

Also, fyi: my endo suggested taking a small amount of 5 htp at night before bed, on the theory that it helps with night waking by making sure you have the precursors to melationin so your body can make it by itself, and I found it does help if I get myself into a pattern of night waking.

[2Sox]

I hope it works for you. Reading this forum I have seen huge ranges in melatonin doses and I know the large doses taken by some would make me feel awful, and I am sure the low doses I take would do nothing for the people who take more - so it's one of those very individual things.

Also, fyi: my endo suggested taking a small amount of 5 htp at night before bed, on the theory that it helps with night waking by making sure you have the precursors to melationin so your body can make it by itself, and I found it does help if I get myself into a pattern of night waking.

Yes, 5htp is on my shopping list.

No melatonin last night and I did fairly well. Took a half tab of GABA and fell right to sleep. Woke once and fell right back to sleep also.

[thisAngelBites]

Just out of curiosity, how strong are your GABAs? My endo says 800mg at bedtime, but I have 125s, which seem to help a bit. Haven't tried 800mg, tho.

And then there is the controversy about whether GABA is able to cross the blood/brain barrier. Not trying to hijack, just interested to see whether you or any of the other peeps interested in good sleep can advise to all our benefit.

[2Sox]

Just out of curiosity, how strong are your GABAs? My endo says 800mg at bedtime, but I have 125s, which seem to help a bit. Haven't tried 800mg, tho.

And then there is the controversy about whether GABA is able to cross the blood/brain barrier. Not trying to hijack, just interested to see whether you or any of the other peeps interested in good sleep can advise to all our benefit.

My GABA is standard strength -750mg. Half tab puts me right to sleep.

[thisAngelBites]

My GABA is standard strength -750mg. Half tab puts me right to sleep.

That's worth knowing. Thanks a lot.