very low testosterone again

[vinny t]

Im from the UK Here is my background, 4 years ago i was diagnosed primary hypogonadism due o steroid use.I was put on TRT and i had reular blood tests ,full blood count, liver profile , PSA .

In january this year routine bloods come back showing high red blood cells haemaglobin , hematocrit were well above range basically my blood wa too thick, i was referred to a blood specialist who told me to stop TRT go into the hospital every week to give blood untill my hematocrit levels came back into range.then when they were back to normal range see an endo who will put me back on TRT with maybe a different application method, reduced dose fequency and to have regulr blood tests monitored and if red blood cells went above range just to give blood as and when necessary to keep in normal range.

Fast forward from jan to now i have given blood regulary my hematocrit levels are in range and i went to see my endo today. I had my bloods done to check my testosterone levels my results were;


testosterone 1.4nmol/l (10.0-37.0
shbg 13 (11-71)
FSH 17(1.0-11.0)
LH 13 (1.0-8.0)
estrogen 60 (20-160

So my testosterone is totally shot at and will have been like this for a while since stopping TRT in JAN 6 months ago.

My eno told me today that he does not want to pUT me back on TRT for the considrable future as he says im sensitive to it and he does not want my red blood cells, hematocrit at reduced dose /frequency or different application method and i would have bloods monitored regulary and give blood at the hospital as and when needed if red blood cells went above range and that this was completely safe and acceptable practice .

My endo said that this was not the way forward he wanted to keep me off TRT and see if i can recover my natural testosterone which i very much doubt will happen as i have been shut down for over 4 years as i have been on TRT since 2010. I said my test levels have not returned since stopping TRT 6 months ago but he says its not long enough and he wants to re test me in 6 months time .

I told him that i felt like crap and that i have no libido no interest in sex and im not even producing any semen when i ejaculate nothing comes out just a few drops of clear fluid, i said i cant stay like this, he said he is not putting me back on we will have to do this because its the way forward and putting me back on TRT and having me give blood to reduce red blood cell count as it was expensive to the NHS.

He said it was all my own fault and self inflicted from my previous steroid use and i needed to be made an example of and went on about peole taking steroids and needing TRT was costing the NHS .I argued about smokers drinkers people eating fatty foods needing cholesterol lowering drugs etc costing NHS he just said he was not going to put me back on TRT for the foreseeable future.

Now all good and well if i start producing my own natural testosterone but i can see it and im just going to be like this with very low test for i dont know how long , i dont know what to do.

[Low Testosterone]

You may simply be one of those guys who has to give blood regularly, meaning several times a year if you're going to be on TRT. That's not a very common thing but it does apply to some men. For those reading and thinking you'll give blood often just to be on the safe side, this is not smart; in fact, I'd call it borderline idiotic. Very unhealthy.

Advice, find a new doctor. I know that's not exciting advice but it's the only advice that's worth anything, in my opinion.

[vinny t]

You may simply be one of those guys who has to give blood regularly, meaning several times a year if you're going to be on TRT. That's not a very common thing but it does apply to some men. For those reading and thinking you'll give blood often just to be on the safe side, this is not smart; in fact, I'd call it borderline idiotic. Very unhealthy.

Advice, find a new doctor. I know that's not exciting advice but it's the only advice that's worth anything, in my opinion.

whats very unhealthy?

[rplante7]

ave you been taking clomid or nolvadex as your LH and FSH is above range??

[vinny t]

ave you been taking clomid or nolvadex as your LH and FSH is above range??

no not bee taking any of those i was diagnosed primary hypogonadism 4 years ago

[Low Testosterone]

whats very unhealthy?

Giving blood all the time when you don't need to.

[The_Crawfish]

Giving blood all the time when you don't need to.

Just to clarify, it IS ok to give blood often if you DO need to right?? You're wording in the previous post was kind of confusing.

[vinny t]

Just to clarify, it IS ok to give blood often if you DO need to right?? You're wording in the previous post was kind of confusing.

I have been under the care of a haematologist who regular monitors my bloods she told me giving blood as and when required to lower haematorit is necesary and very safe .

[OingoBoingo]

Giving blood all the time when you don't need to.

What is "all the time?" And what are the health risks? I didn't find much information about the risks on the Red Cross website.

If I donate blood every two months even if I don't need it, I am doing a good thing for those who do.

[energizer bunny]

Im from the UK Here is my background, 4 years ago i was diagnosed primary hypogonadism due o steroid use.I was put on TRT and i had reular blood tests ,full blood count, liver profile , PSA .

In january this year routine bloods come back showing high red blood cells haemaglobin , hematocrit were well above range basically my blood wa too thick, i was referred to a blood specialist who told me to stop TRT go into the hospital every week to give blood untill my hematocrit levels came back into range.then when they were back to normal range see an endo who will put me back on TRT with maybe a different application method, reduced dose fequency and to have regulr blood tests monitored and if red blood cells went above range just to give blood as and when necessary to keep in normal range.

Fast forward from jan to now i have given blood regulary my hematocrit levels are in range and i went to see my endo today. I had my bloods done to check my testosterone levels my results were;


testosterone 1.4nmol/l (10.0-37.0
shbg 13 (11-71)
FSH 17(1.0-11.0)
LH 13 (1.0-8.0)
estrogen 60 (20-160

So my testosterone is totally shot at and will have been like this for a while since stopping TRT in JAN 6 months ago.

My eno told me today that he does not want to pUT me back on TRT for the considrable future as he says im sensitive to it and he does not want my red blood cells, hematocrit at reduced dose /frequency or different application method and i would have bloods monitored regulary and give blood at the hospital as and when needed if red blood cells went above range and that this was completely safe and acceptable practice .

My endo said that this was not the way forward he wanted to keep me off TRT and see if i can recover my natural testosterone which i very much doubt will happen as i have been shut down for over 4 years as i have been on TRT since 2010. I said my test levels have not returned since stopping TRT 6 months ago but he says its not long enough and he wants to re test me in 6 months time .

I told him that i felt like crap and that i have no libido no interest in sex and im not even producing any semen when i ejaculate nothing comes out just a few drops of clear fluid, i said i cant stay like this, he said he is not putting me back on we will have to do this because its the way forward and putting me back on TRT and having me give blood to reduce red blood cell count as it was expensive to the NHS.

He said it was all my own fault and self inflicted from my previous steroid use and i needed to be made an example of and went on about peole taking steroids and needing TRT was costing the NHS .I argued about smokers drinkers people eating fatty foods needing cholesterol lowering drugs etc costing NHS he just said he was not going to put me back on TRT for the foreseeable future.

Now all good and well if i start producing my own natural testosterone but i can see it and im just going to be like this with very low test for i dont know how long , i dont know what to do.

Go and see another doctor, go private if you have to........you could even try a clomid or HCG restart or a monotherapy. i thought i was primary but i have been using clomid as a monotherapy for 5 months and my test levels have went up.

[vinny t]

Go and see another doctor, go private if you have to........you could even try a clomid or HCG restart or a monotherapy. i thought i was primary but i have been using clomid as a monotherapy for 5 months and my test levels have went up.

Do you have blood numbers before and after clomid therapy ?

[CobraMustangSVT]

What is "all the time?" And what are the health risks? I didn't find much information about the risks on the Red Cross website.

If I donate blood every two months even if I don't need it, I am doing a good thing for those who do.

I asked my doc the same question and he said that giving too much blood, even when you don't need to, can cause a drop in iron in the blood. Even though we don't need as much iron as women, since we don't menstruate, we still need it and too much donation will cause an iron deficiency.

[vinny t]

I asked my doc the same question and he said that giving too much blood, even when you don't need to, can cause a drop in iron in the blood. Even though we don't need as much iron as women, since we don't menstruate, we still need it and too much donation will cause an iron deficiency.

Yes my iron levels dropped to below nornal range when i gave blood but i did give 8 pints in 8 weeks thats quite alot s my hematocrit levels were very high.A few weeks later my iron levels were back to normal.

Haemachromatosis is a condition where the body absorbs too much iron into the bloodstream and the cure is to give blood regulary to remove the iron so yes giving blood frequently will lower iron levels, but giving blood 2 or 3 times a year will not affect iron levels at all

[Low Testosterone]

Just to clarify, it IS ok to give blood often if you DO need to right?? You're wording in the previous post was kind of confusing.

If you need to, of course, that's fine. Giving blood just because you think you're being proactive, thinking you're going to have to give blood no matter what, that's what's stupid.

[Low Testosterone]

What is "all the time?" And what are the health risks? I didn't find much information about the risks on the Red Cross website.

If I donate blood every two months even if I don't need it, I am doing a good thing for those who do.

Giving all the time for the sake of society, sure on one hand that's fine. But if you're lowering your hemoglobin and thinning your blood too much this is problematic. This can leave you fatigued...no surprise, you're not getting enough oxygen to your tissue. Also, look up anemia, which is low red blood cells.

[vinny t]

Giving all the time for the sake of society, sure on one hand that's fine. But if you're lowering your hemoglobin and thinning your blood too much this is problematic. This can leave you fatigued...no surprise, you're not getting enough oxygen to your tissue. Also, look up anemia, which is low red blood cells.

Haemaglobin levels will return to normal within weeks. Blood donations every few months is not going to adversly affect haemaglobin levels at all, that is unless you already have low haemaglobin levels to start with

[vinny t]

I was diagnosed primary hypogonadism 4 years ago by a different endo , i had all the relevant blood tests etc, and was told if i go on trt its for life , so now this different endo thinks i might be able to recover after 4 years solid trt

[Low Testosterone]

Haemaglobin levels will return to normal within weeks. Blood donations every few months is not going to adversly affect haemaglobin levels at all, that is unless you already have low haemaglobin levels to start with

True, but the idea that hemoglobin, hematocrit and RBC all go up because you're on TRT is a bit of a myth IMO...they can go up significantly but not always. And when they don't, when they are already normal or low-normal, giving blood all the time isn't a good idea.

[yettibecsuse]

Your physician or General practioner can also take blood; if your crit is up; you can ask them to do it or the can give you a referral to the Blood collection places; I have done this many times, you don't have to use the hospital ir red cross; because im always in the middle of tattoo's I cant use them anyway. I think every man should be using baby asprin as well. There are copious studies indicating much benefit, including sone related to resistance training

[vinny t]

True, but the idea that hemoglobin, hematocrit and RBC all go up because you're on TRT is a bit of a myth IMO...they can go up significantly but not always. And when they don't, when they are already normal or low-normal, giving blood all the time isn't a good idea.

Its dose and age dependant studies have shown this , the older you are the higher the test dose the higher the hematocrit, im in the uk my trt is 250mg sustanon every 3 weeks

[energizer bunny]

Do you have blood numbers before and after clomid therapy ?

yes mate, just for testosterone though, couldnt afford the full panel this time around.....going private is costly........ill try and find my thread with my bloods in.


http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...questions.html

[vinny t]

I was urgently referred to an haematologist with a hematocrit of 60, I was diagnosed with testosterone induced polycythemia the plan was stop TRT get my hematocrit down refer to endo go back on trt and monitor hematocrit and draw blood as and when required keeping my hematocrit under 47. I was taken off trt and put on asprin and i had 8 consequitive weekly blood draws of 1 pint and my hematocrit got to 45 . I saw an endo this week who does not want me to go back on trt even though my haematologist will monitor my hematocrit and keep it in range .

[vinny t]

IN 2010 i had been off steroids for 6 months when i had the very low libido symptoms.

I went to see an endo who did blood tests my testosterone levels came back at 1.2 SHBG 33 FSH 26 LH 13

My endo said my testes may be damaged due repeated androgen administation and he said he would re test my bloods @ 2 and 4 months to judge the pattern . i went back in 4 months time and blood tests showed no improvement in test levels so i was put on TRT . I know all this because i have it all in a letter from 2010.

So all in all it had been about 10 months from stopping steroids to starting TRT.

[vinny t]

I have spoken to my endos secretary today on the phone i asked for a copy of the letter that is going to go out to my gp in connection the endo appointment that i just had , the secretary as emailed me a copy i have eliminated my pefsonal details here is the letter


Division of Diabetes & Endocrinology

Consultant: Dr A Jostel Royal Blackburn Hospital
Secretary: Mrs Anali Cottam Haslingden Road
BLACKBURN
Direct line: 01254 734469 BB2 3HH
Ext: 84469
Fax: 01254 736311

Our Ref: AJ/KB/RXR0719778


30 June 2014

ENDOCRINE CLINIC


Private & confidential
Mr V



Dear M– Dob 31.12.66


Diagnosis:
Anabolic steroid misuse

I saw you in the endocrine clinic today. You have been under the care of my endocrine colleagues off and on since 2009 until March last year. The uncontrolled use of anabolic steroids did result in secondary polycythaemia which was recently rectified with repeated venesections and abstinence from testosterone and anabolic steroid injections. The fact that your haemoglobin did not rise any further, and the fact that your gonadotropin levels have only just risen into double figures, confirm that stopping exogenous testosterone excess is effective in eliminating the side-effect of polycythaemia and there is evidence of a potential for physiological recovery by reactivating your own pituitary gonadal axis.

In order to see the effectiveness of this approach, we need to let at least six months pass and reassess your hormonal profile after that time. The misuse of any anabolic steroids or testosterone in the meantime will jeopardise that natural recovery and will be evident on falling gonadotropin levels.

I will review you again in six months’ time.

Yours sincerely




Dr ANDREAS JOSTEL
Consultant Physician
(Endocrinology/Diabetes/Acute Medicine)
GMC Number: 4342247

[vinny t]

I have spoken to my endos secretary today on the phone i asked for a copy of the letter that is going to go out to my gp in connection the endo appointment that i just had , the secretary as emailed me a copy i have eliminated my pefsonal details here is the letter


Division of Diabetes & Endocrinology

Consultant: Dr A Jostel Royal Blackburn Hospital
Secretary: Mrs Anali Cottam Haslingden Road
BLACKBURN
Direct line: 01254 734469 BB2 3HH
Ext: 84469
Fax: 01254 736311

Our Ref: AJ/KB/RXR0719778


30 June 2014

ENDOCRINE CLINIC


Private & confidential
Mr V



Dear M– Dob 31.12.66


Diagnosis:
Anabolic steroid misuse

I saw you in the endocrine clinic today. You have been under the care of my endocrine colleagues off and on since 2009 until March last year. The uncontrolled use of anabolic steroids did result in secondary polycythaemia which was recently rectified with repeated venesections and abstinence from testosterone and anabolic steroid injections. The fact that your haemoglobin did not rise any further, and the fact that your gonadotropin levels have only just risen into double figures, confirm that stopping exogenous testosterone excess is effective in eliminating the side-effect of polycythaemia and there is evidence of a potential for physiological recovery by reactivating your own pituitary gonadal axis.

In order to see the effectiveness of this approach, we need to let at least six months pass and reassess your hormonal profile after that time. The misuse of any anabolic steroids or testosterone in the meantime will jeopardise that natural recovery and will be evident on falling gonadotropin levels.

I will review you again in six months’ time.

Yours sincerely




Dr ANDREAS JOSTEL
Consultant Physician
(Endocrinology/Diabetes/Acute Medicine)
GMC Number: 4342247
Anabolic steroid misuse
that's is not the diagnosis. the diagnosis is hypogonadism, anabolic steroid misuse is not a medical diagnosis.

uncontrolled use of anabolic steroids did result in secondary polycythaemia
the secondary polycythaemia was caused by TRT, not uncontrolled use of anabolic steroids.

evidence of a potential for physiological recovery by reactivating your own pituitary gonadal axis
rising LH and FSH without improvement in T level is not an improvement of HTPA

The misuse of any anabolic steroids or testosterone in the meantime will jeopardise that natural recovery and will be evident on falling gonadotropin levels.
this sounded like a threat. not professional

Last edited by Theseus; Yesterday at 03:35 PM.

[BallSak]

Just stick to one thread brother

[vinny t]