Pissing Excellence!
What is this world coming to when you can't discipline your own kid without going to jail!
Why has this country become a bunch of cry baby pvssies!
I got my ass beat as a child if I did something wrong. My friend's parents had rights to discipline me if so deemed necessary.
What did this man do wrong?
Suspended or Banned either way gone!
It wasn't a spanking. He was beaten with a stick from a tree and was bleeding. These are the kids injuries:
"AR's Official Turkey Bacon Expert"
According to doctors, the beating resulted in numerous injuries to the boy, including cuts and bruises on his back, buttocks, legs and scrotum and he's 4 pretty fvcked upOriginally Posted by Hoggage_54
It wasn't a spanking. He was beaten with a stick from a tree and was bleeding. These are the kids injuries:
Knowledgeable Elite ~ Respected Female Leader ~
Children have rights in the US. There are more pictures posted online. Not sure how any reasonable adult could find that acceptable.
Knowledgeable Member
Is that a real pic of the injuries or something similar
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
I was hit with the thing u use to turn ur blinds up or down. That flexible stick..... Yea it hurt but I stopped doing what I was doing
Pissing Excellence!
I always had to go choose the stick/switch, so when the rotten one broke, had to choose two more.
Member
Wasn't found guilty yet...Was indicted and will be tried to determine if he's guilty or innocent.
There was enough evidence to arrest him at this point... We'll see how it plays now..
Knowledgeable Female Member
That doesn't look like the result of spanking.
I thought there were many robust studies that showed that rates of anxiety, depression and anti-social behaviour (lying, cheating, cruelty to others, bullying, etc.) were significantly higher in children who were spanked, and that the more corporal punishment used, the more anti-social behaviour there was.
Even still, absent clear physical or emotional harm to a child, I generally think parents should choose how to raise their child.
Neurologically Intact
Completely agreeThat doesn't look like the result of spanking.I thought there were many robust studies that showed that rates of anxiety, depression and anti-social behaviour (lying, cheating, cruelty to others, bullying, etc.) were significantly higher in children who were spanked, and that the more corporal punishment used, the more anti-social behaviour there was. Even still, absent clear physical or emotional harm to a child, I generally think parents should choose how to raise their child.
I'm not for hitting my son @ all
Me being who I am & the way I am scares the living shit out of him already.
As far as what should happen to him. Well, that's a matter for courts to decide when all of the evidence is presented.
Anabolic Member
it all started with Dr. Spock's baby book. I admit, things had to change. You don't beat your kids like what was going on when I was growing up. But they still need discipline, and sometimes, spanking, under the right circumstances, is the best solution.
My personal opinion is we sugar coat things for our kids too much now adays. I was listening to the bob and tom show the other day on the way to work, and they were talking about this one guys kid graduating from day care to kindergarten. A fvcking ceremony? Really? Give me a fvcking break. how fvcking stupid is that? and graduating from elementary school? and junior high?
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Drives me f'n nuts. Celebrating mediocrity.
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Those look like scratches you'd expect from getting hit by a switch. It seems like abuse nowadays because we've been conditioned to be pussies and to let the kids roam wild. I actually applaud Adrian Peterson for disciplining his son and wish more people do so too.
Remember some people think that just spanking your child is abuse so it's hard to draw the line.
Anabolic Member
I think that when a parent disciplines a child, the parent should be calm, not angry. When my dad whipped on me, he was pissed, like he was taking out his aggression. I whipped my kid one time. He almost killed a sheep by choking it out with a rope. before the whip, I explained what I was going to do and why I was going to do it. I was calm. told him to drop his drawers, and grab the fence. gave him one good whip with my belt, and that was it. when through, I told him I loved him but he needed to understand he could never do that again. And he never did
Member
The issue isn't disciplining your child. The issue is scale. From the police report and the pictures this was a beating not a spanking. I'm 41 and got spanked regularly. When I really screwed up I got the belt. I never once thought my parents were abusing me. But I never once had cuts and welts all over the back of my body. I'm also pretty sure I was older than 4 when I got the belt. This looks like abuse.
Knowledgeable Member
cuts and welts were normal for me, esp from my grandmother. Her and my dad would hold on to one arm and we would go round and round . . . mostly got it on the butt but some were high and some low and some on my hands from trying to block it.
Knowledgeable Member
My Dad used to whip me with a belt, my grandmother would hit me with a switch off a tree and my teachers used a wooden board. There was no "time out" when I messed up I would get a hurting. Made marks far worse than that picture. My grandmother was the one I feared the most. I can say that I always heard before hand, other than my teachers, that this is going to hurt me more than it will hurt you. Never understood it at the time. But I did see tears in both my grandmothers eyes and my fathers eyes sometimes.
People wonder why kids / younger generation are the way they are and it is due to not getting a hurting from people that loved me. Not to "hurt us" but to teach us. There are people that abuse kids and that is wrong but from what I have found, the people that got spanked and what not, ended up much better people for it.
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Anabolic Member
One other result of spanking is a well behaved child that listens.That doesn't look like the result of spanking.
I thought there were many robust studies that showed that rates of anxiety, depression and anti-social behaviour (lying, cheating, cruelty to others, bullying, etc.) were significantly higher in children who were spanked, and that the more corporal punishment used, the more anti-social behaviour there was.
Even still, absent clear physical or emotional harm to a child, I generally think parents should choose how to raise their child.
Knowledgeable Female Member
Perhaps for some people having a well-behaved child that listens is worth any price. Perhaps parents who hit their children don't think there is any way to have well behaved children without hitting.
While I want my child to be well behaved in that he treats people well, I don't personally have obedience as a goal for him. I personally think obedience is quite a dangerous thing, and whilst I haven't seen any studies in this area, I see numerous people I have known all my life who had parents who demanded obedience in the extreme, who are are now very, very obedient people.
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"AR's Official Turkey Bacon Expert"
He should lose his job and go to jail with rice
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
I wish I got spanked as a kid. I was almost murdered on many occasions. But back then, no one came to your rescue or even considered prosecuting the parents/guardians. If by chance police were involved, they would side with the parents and attempt to 'scare you straight'. Maybe I am a lucky one, but my childhood doesn't bother me today the least bit and has not impacted my adult life negatively whatsoever.
I'll never have kids, but I don't like folks who 'beat' kids. The sight is just too cruel. And I'm sure that many are impacted psychologically from it. I just don't believe in ever-lasting-madness as a result. I think the average person would get over it at some point in their life. It's not like rape. The folks that never get over their childhood (again, with the exception of rape/sexual abuse), in my opinion, were likely born with some sort of abnormality, from things as common as ADHD to complex conditions similar to Anhedonia.
It's no secret. Today's kids are the biggest group of cry babies I have ever encountered; and it's fleetly getting worse. It's rare that I see well behaved kids. That being said, I still do believe that parents are leaders (whether they make the attempt to be or not) and children will follow. However, unless the child is held captive with little to no exposure to the world into their adult life, they will find the path to 'moving on' and heal from any verbal and/or physical abuse.
Once again, abusers are disgusting, any way you look at it.
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"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
Knowledgeable Member
What, you mean we have a Choice? We can choose how we turn out? How successful we are or not? I dont believe it. I'm quite sure that every wrong choice I have ever made is due to my parents how they raised me and I believe the government will save me.
Knowledgeable Elite ~ Respected Female Leader ~
I volunteer with 2-3 yo once a week for 2 hours. There are 8 - 12 toddlers for myself and an experienced mother who taught me so much about how to interact with them. No kid can be hit.
The experienced mom should teach a class to the parents. She is firm with her tone and they r taught boundaries. their r consequences for bad behavior and they r rewarded for making good choices. Their is a routine and they quickly adapt.
No doubt raising well behaved children is 24/7 and the most noble job. Adults cannot expect kids to be well behaved when both parents don't make the investment. A stick and a belt r poor substitutions IMHO.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Can wives be handled the same way? If so, I might reconsider marriage.
~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~
"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
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Can husbands?
Productive Member
I was beat once from my dad when i was 8 for stealing 2 bottles of bubbles from the nearby store. but it did me good and i never stole again and never got beat from him again. Valuable lesson learned by the belt. sometimes whippings do work to send a message or prove a point to keep kids in line. but it all has to do with the intensity of the whipper. the kid should not be beat within an inch of their lives. i know one thing that that stupid time out crap does not work. You know when johnny gets in trouble and mom says now johnny you know you are bad and now you have to stand in the corner for a 15 minute time out. we all should have the right to discipline our own children when they get out of line. where the problem lies is when the adult doing the discipline has anger issues and takes it out on their kids. they are the ones who should never ever dole out the discipline but sadly they usually end up being the ones who do.
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The amount of bruises and welts indicates daddy has anger issues. For a kid that never gets spanked, a slight hand to a covered bottom is more then sufficient.
Knowledgeable Female Member
So we can't know anything because there is always someone who disagrees with any given thing?
It seems funny then that we're here on a steroid forum when a lot of medical professionals think that exogenous testosterone is dangerous for men. There are thousands of pages to this forum, all of which deal with things that are hotly contested. Is this whole place actually just full of men who are paralysed with indecision because not everyone agrees? Perhaps with such indeterminacy people do whatever their father did because he turned out okay?
If it's the case that there is a lot of robust scientific dissent about whether it is good for children to be physically struck, then presumably there is an equal proportion of people who find that research persuasive who strike adults in order to aid in their learning, or at least advocate it.
Knowledgeable Member
And things are different in a forum full of women? They all tend to agree? Yeah right...
I'm guessing there is a little bias in your tone due from some type of history. A child is a little different from an adult as far as being able to sit down and talk to logically and having them understand. Do you or should you just talk to your dog when you are trying to train them? Really it's not that much different.
There is a big difference between a spanking and abuse. You may not see it that way or agree and most of those studies were done by the same people who have helped our country get into the mess we are in now.
Maybe when people go through military training, professional sports training or many other things we need to just say please do this and that. Sorry but some level of force is required for training.
Last edited by lovbyts; 09-15-2014 at 09:12 PM.
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Not sure who u r directing your comment. Trust me. I don't agree and support everything women post here or in my life. I am independent and I can't have children so I have no horse in this race.And things are different in a forum full of women? They all tend to agree? Yeah right...I'm guessing there is a little bias in your tone due from some type of history. A child is a little different from an adult as far as being able to sit down and talk to logically and having them understand. Do you or should you just talk to your dog when you are trying to train them? Really it's not that much different. There is a big difference between a spanking and abuse. You may not see it that way or agree and most of those studies were done by the same people who have helped our country get into the mess we are in now. Maybe when people go through military training, professional sports training or many other things we need to just say please do this and that. Sorry but some level of force is required for training.
I was shopping yesterday and a teenage daughter sasses her mom a mild mannered person. I was applaud at the daughters tone and words to her mom. Unlike our football pro, all my mother did was use her words.
Knowledgeable Member
Well there is a big difference on how you deal with a teenager (girl and hormones) and a child. When my daughter was about 4 we were at a store where another 4yr old was throwing a temper tantrum and the mother was just ignoring her. My daughter walked up to the mother and said your daughter needs a spanking.
I think I have only spanked mine daughter maybe 3x between ages 3-5. None after that
Anabolic Member
Spankings were handed out on occasion in our house but normally more of an attention getter than a painful beating.
Speaking of the teenagers I remember when I was 12 I sassed my mother and used words that were very disrespecting to her (to this day I still feel horrible about it). Long story short my father pulled off his belt and gave me an ass spanking that was second to none and believe me he did leave marks and never again did I sass my mother.
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What you describe maybe different then the pictures re the 4 YO One of my gf had
her kids eat soap if they sasses her. They don't anymore.
My favor soap flavor was ivory. LoL
Knowledgeable Female Member
Let's not get sidetracked by casting aspersions rather than making material arguments. But just to satisfy you: there's no physical punishment in my history. Although I do have a bias to declare: I'm always on the side of the thinking that is in accordance with the best evidence that I have been able to find.
There are many, many adults with whom who you cannot sit down and reason - I see it everyday on this forum, just for starters, not to mention everywhere else. Even in this thread, most people are just asserting things are true because they think so. So I presume from this that your position is that we should hit people who can't be reasoned with? What about adults who are developmentally disabled? Should they be hit in order that they might learn things they can't learn through reason?
Yikes, children should be treated/trained like dogs before they can talk/understand? And once they start to speak we can treat them like human beings? I'm not sure what to make of this. Dogs don't use language to communicate with humans, so I don't understand the point of this.
Interestingly, when I was looking at research on this topic, I skimmed past an article that began "Using punishment during dog training leads to increased aggression", although I did not stop to read it. But given the human psychology articles I read, it's not surprising.
Maybe some force is required for training, but then I don't think people are the kind of thing that ought to be "trained" and perhaps this is the locus of the disagreement. I think this idea should be relegated to the start of the industrial revolution where it was in its prime because there was a desire to turn starving people into compliant factory workers who did as they were told and were fungible. There was little concern for them as people, and I don't see it as being applicable to children.
I agree that there is a difference between spanking and abuse, although sometimes the line is blurred. Let me say again that I am in favour of parents being able to spank their children without intervention from the law. My claim is only that the evidence seems to show that spanking gets obedience from children at a cost. I think parents should be able to decide whether it's worth the cost.
Knowledgeable Member
Let me start out by making one thing clear. As for this case we are talking about with the 4yr old and the pictures I have seen. This IS abuse. He went way over the line and did this out of anger/rage and in no way is this anything that I would ever consider acceptable for any age child, OK?
Let's not get sidetracked by casting aspersions rather than making material arguments. But just to satisfy you: there's no physical punishment in my history. Although I do have a bias to declare: I'm always on the side of the thinking that is in accordance with the best evidence that I have been able to find.
My Bias is from seeing people who are so polarized at thinking they are right and everyone else is wrong, and they who wold should do/think like they do. I play devils advocate on this forum a lot but ask most everyone I am open mined and easily swayed with facts.
There are many, many adults with whom who you cannot sit down and reason - I see it everyday on this forum, just for starters, not to mention everywhere else. Even in this thread, most people are just asserting things are true because they think so. So I presume from this that your position is that we should hit people who can't be reasoned with? What about adults who are developmentally disabled? Should they be hit in order that they might learn things they can't learn through reason?
They need dealt with on a case by case. Some need care/monitored/reminded constantly, some need to be in a special facility and some may need restrained most of the time.
Yikes, children should be treated/trained like dogs before they can talk/understand? And once they start to speak we can treat them like human beings? I'm not sure what to make of this. Dogs don't use language to communicate with humans, so I don't understand the point of this.
Have you not hear any of the millions of times they compare a dogs or puppy IQ to a small child? That's my point, at some age usually 2 or 3 their mental capacity or understanding is similar so training or attention getting is similar as in repetitiveness and reward. I dont think you should give a kid a milk bone for doing something good though.
Interestingly, when I was looking at research on this topic, I skimmed past an article that began "Using punishment during dog training leads to increased aggression", although I did not stop to read it. But given the human psychology articles I read, it's not surprising.
You're confusing punishment with abuse again. There is a big difference.
Maybe some force is required for training, but then I don't think people are the kind of thing that ought to be "trained" and perhaps this is the locus of the disagreement. I think this idea should be relegated to the start of the industrial revolution where it was in its prime because there was a desire to turn starving people into compliant factory workers who did as they were told and were fungible. There was little concern for them as people, and I don't see it as being applicable to children.
I agree that there is a difference between spanking and abuse, although sometimes the line is blurred. Let me say again that I am in favour of parents being able to spank their children without intervention from the law. My claim is only that the evidence seems to show that spanking gets obedience from children at a cost. I think parents should be able to decide whether it's worth the cost. I don't disagree with this at all.
Knowledgeable Female Member
Lovbyts said: My Bias is from seeing people who are so polarized at thinking they are right and everyone else is wrong, and they who wold should do/think like they do. I play devils advocate on this forum a lot but ask most everyone I am open mined and easily swayed with facts.
Some people responded to this thread with their singular experiences, and that's great, but I mentioned studies and what I understood the larger patterns to be, because it's well-known that no person's experience universalises. I'd love for you to make some intelligent claims about the empirical research in this area about what works best with children, especially as it relates to spanking being positive, but unfortunately for me, you don't appear to be interested in that kind of exchange.
Instead of any reasoned discussion in response to my posts, you reply with snarky stuff instead of addressing what I actually wrote, letting me know that for some strange reason you're searching for some emotional cause for why I say what I do (when I explained my position in my first post). And I'll give you a hint about people that you're convinced only care about being right (since you think that's the case here): the best way to deal with them is to actually rebut what they say and show them to be wrong.
I completely get that you reject all the studies done in this area because you think the many researchers are all biased, and that you just know what children need, because...well, you didn't say. I take that to mean you think you know just because you do, end of story. Surely what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. There's nothing anyone can say to someone who thinks they are right just because they are sure they are and even though that's similar to your criticism of me, I'm happy to just leave it be. If you change your mind, and decide to have a look at the studies with that open mind of yours and want to defend spanking (not abuse) with regards to evidence, I'll be happy to recommence.
(and I'd be happy if anyone else wants to defend spanking in a well-reasoned, empirical way - I think it would be interesting)
Pissing Excellence!
i got spanked repeatedly because it took me a while to learn my lesson. i eventually learned! and now that I am an adult, i still like to get spanked!
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I've seen post with vid from either a movie or a commercial re: safe word. It's really funny. The guy thought he was only getting spank. Hahahaha. Hahahahaha
Last edited by GirlyGymRat; 09-15-2014 at 02:26 PM.
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