Hcg during cycle does not make sense

[xzed]

Taking hcg during cycle does not make sense. Here why:

FALSEuring cycle your LH is suppressed. I have to take hcg to increase.
TRUE: During cycle your testo levels are high incredibly. HCG cant do anything while you have this much testo on your blood. Because your lh is primarly follow your testo(negative feedback). At the same time hcg dosage advised from you is very low. Your body won't recognize any
hcg if you won't decrease your testo level. I was on 2.month of my cycle. Alwaya xheceked testo and lh levels and they were stable. And started hcg on 3. month. After a month my testo levels and lh were exactly SAME.

FALSE: when i finish my cycle after stopping testo, my lh will increase and and while its increased its wrong to take hcg
TRUE: Your lh will not increase after cycle for a long time. Check your lood levels after cycle and see whats going on. Your lh will try to increase but It will take time. This where hcg have to kick in. Hcg is for hipogonodotrophic hipogonadizm which explains everything.
Check pubmed articles and read pregnyl treatment informations. You cant see dosage and treatment types which talking here

[christian123]

Taking hcg during cycle does not make sense. Here why: FALSEuring cycle your LH is suppressed. I have to take hcg to increase. TRUE: During cycle your testo levels are high incredibly. HCG cant do anything while you have this much testo on your blood. Because your lh is primarly follow your testo(negative feedback). At the same time hcg dosage advised from you is very low. Your body won't recognize any hcg if you won't decrease your testo level. I was on 2.month of my cycle. Alwaya xheceked testo and lh levels and they were stable. And started hcg on 3. month. After a month my testo levels and lh were exactly SAME. FALSE: when i finish my cycle after stopping testo, my lh will increase and and while its increased its wrong to take hcg TRUE: Your lh will not increase after cycle for a long time. Check your lood levels after cycle and see whats going on. Your lh will try to increase but It will take time. This where hcg have to kick in. Hcg is for hipogonodotrophic hipogonadizm which explains everything. Check pubmed articles and read pregnyl treatment informations. You cant see dosage and treatment types which talking here

Good post, i was a during the cycle user for a while but changed it to post cycle. Rich piana made a vid about that too which makes a lot of sense to me.

[marcus300]

HCG has the ability to maintain testicular function and size which means it will maintain endogenous testosterone production by stimulating the testes even when shutdown from using steroids has occurred.

HCG is VERY important in cycles IMHO. It prevents the main reason the HPTA doesn't recover immediately post cycle. If you maintain testicular function and size recovery is far better which is of great benefit to us all.

Check out this study it will help you understand what its capable of doing Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular tes... - PubMed - NCBI

If you have a good pct what makes you recover I would advice you to stick with it but IMHO I would recommend everyone to use 2 x 250ius of hcg weekly during any cycle.
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...njections.html



ps, how old are you?

[Chlamydia]

Taking hcg during cycle does not make sense. Here why:

FALSEuring cycle your LH is suppressed. I have to take hcg to increase.
TRUE: During cycle your testo levels are high incredibly. HCG cant do anything while you have this much testo on your blood. Because your lh is primarly follow your testo(negative feedback). At the same time hcg dosage advised from you is very low. Your body won't recognize any
hcg if you won't decrease your testo level. I was on 2.month of my cycle. Alwaya xheceked testo and lh levels and they were stable. And started hcg on 3. month. After a month my testo levels and lh were exactly SAME.

FALSE: when i finish my cycle after stopping testo, my lh will increase and and while its increased its wrong to take hcg
TRUE: Your lh will not increase after cycle for a long time. Check your lood levels after cycle and see whats going on. Your lh will try to increase but It will take time. This where hcg have to kick in. Hcg is for hipogonodotrophic hipogonadizm which explains everything.
Check pubmed articles and read pregnyl treatment informations. You cant see dosage and treatment types which talking here

I agree with you 10000%
I took HCG on cycle at 250iu x 2 a week during the whole 14 weeks that i was on
I got blood done after I finished test and I was completly shut down
HCG did not do anything for me, just wasted HCG


what doses would you say are good and how often after a 14-20week test cycle?

[marcus300]

I agree with you 10000%
I took HCG on cycle at 250iu x 2 a week during the whole 14 weeks that i was on
I got blood done after I finished test and I was completly shut down
HCG did not do anything for me, just wasted HCG


what doses would you say are good and how often after a 14-20week test cycle?

Your test is going to be shut down if your taking steroids, HCG will maintain testicular function and size. Read the links

[xzed]

HCG has the ability to maintain testicular function and size which means it will maintain endogenous testosterone production by stimulating the testes even when shutdown from using steroids has occurred.

HCG is VERY important in cycles IMHO. It prevents the main reason the HPTA doesn't recover immediately post cycle. If you maintain testicular function and size recovery is far better which is of great benefit to us all.

Check out this study it will help you understand what its capable of doing Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular tes... - PubMed - NCBI

If you have a good pct what makes you recover I would advice you to stick with it but IMHO I would recommend everyone to use 2 x 250ius of hcg weekly during any cycle.
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...njections.html

ps, how old are you?

24 years old.
Great article. I can read that the serum test levels increased after hcg even on testo. Mine wasnt same. I don't know maybe thats because of I used 500 mg per week also some other anabolics with. In this article they use 200 mg which could let to hcg to effect to leyding cells and which is not enough for bodybuilding.
I am not sure if Intratesricular testosteron is good indicator for own testesteron production. And I don't get why they don't check blood testo levels after exojen testo eliminated from blood. It could show own production better then intratesticular testesteron

[kelkel]

xzed you're missing the point completely. HCG will not stimulate LH production, it only mimics it and will not show as increased LH on blood work.

[Chlamydia]

Your test is going to be shut down if your taking steroids, HCG will maintain testicular function and size. Read the links

I did read and I did use HCG in the past during the cycle to maintain testicular function and size

HOWEVER the only thing that it maintained was SIZE but not function I was shut down and it did not help recover
im saving my HCG for PCT on my next cycle because of my experience

[kelkel]

You're still going to experience a drop in gains from on cycle to pct. You really can't avoid that.
If you have blood work showing that you did not recover well then I can only imagine it would have been worse without the hcg. But we'd have to know complete details of your cycle and pct to assess that aspect.

[Chlamydia]

I did test prop 100mg EOD for 12 weeks
I started HCG 4 weeks into the cycle at 250iu x 2 a week
I ran HCG 4days after last pin of test prop and started clomid+nolva regular protocol

I also used aromasin to keep E2 in range during the whole cycle

after PCT I did a blood test and I still still shut down at 270ng/dl

[Back In Black]

I did test prop 100mg EOD for 12 weeks
I started HCG 4 weeks into the cycle at 250iu x 2 a week
I ran HCG 4days after last pin of test prop and started clomid+nolva regular protocol

I also used aromasin to keep E2 in range during the whole cycle

after PCT I did a blood test and I still still shut down at 270ng/dl

And you attribute this shutdown solely to the use of HCG on cycle? What brands were your HCG and pct meds?

How soon after your pct did you run bloods?

Your PCT was 3 weeks nolva and clomid then you took a week break before running them for another week and you also took 800mg test pw (or most weeks) on your first cycle, correct?

[marcus300]

xzed you're missing the point completely. HCG will not stimulate LH production, it only mimics it and will not show as increased LH on blood work.

........

[ojm3]

I did read and I did use HCG in the past during the cycle to maintain testicular function and size

HOWEVER the only thing that it maintained was SIZE but not function I was shut down and it did not help recover
im saving my HCG for PCT on my next cycle because of my experience

Do that and you'll stay shut down longer. HCG mimics LH hormone. Put it in your body during PCT and your body WILL NOT produce the needed LH on its own to stimulate natty test production. Why? Cause like the juice add test and your body stops producing it. Add HCG and your body says hey im good on LH there is plenty here the balls down low are already working! Though they arent. So while your doing your PCT your tricking your HTPA into thinking its producing LH cause its picking it up in the bloodstream. But instead your just ****ing yourself in the end. Youll be through 4 weeks of pct and your balls still wont produce cause your nolva and clomid battle estrogen and enable your body to try to stimulate LH production. But your injecting HCG which mimics LH so your body never starts to produce on its own.

[kelkel]

How soon after your pct did you run bloods?

Million dollar question....

[Chlamydia]

Million dollar question....

I had two blood test

2 months after PCT and 4 months after PCT

no change I was still at 270ng/dl
I am currently on my 2nd PCT doing 1000iu EOD for 10days and gonna be doing clomid starting in a few days (im at my 8th day of HCG today)

[Chlamydia]

Do that and you'll stay shut down longer. HCG mimics LH hormone. Put it in your body during PCT and your body WILL NOT produce the needed LH on its own to stimulate natty test production. Why? Cause like the juice add test and your body stops producing it. Add HCG and your body says hey im good on LH there is plenty here the balls down low are already working! Though they arent. So while your doing your PCT your tricking your HTPA into thinking its producing LH cause its picking it up in the bloodstream. But instead your just ****ing yourself in the end. Youll be through 4 weeks of pct and your balls still wont produce cause your nolva and clomid battle estrogen and enable your body to try to stimulate LH production. But your injecting HCG which mimics LH so your body never starts to produce on its own.

thanks for the reply you actually the only one so far that making any sense
HOWEVERRRRRR
I knew this already and I was not planning to do HCG during the whole PCT
the HCG is just the first stage of PIU
I was going to use it only for 10days to wake them up for example first shot after the test cleared my body I will do a 2000-2500IU shot EOD (2 shots total)
then 1000iu Everyday for 8 days -10days and then ill stop HCG and switch to clomid+nolva and maybe aromasin as well
basically the HCG is just to wake them up which works very well (this is what doctors do after patients have been shut down for awhile)

sure you can say why not just do HCG during a cycle to help this but ive done that and when PCT came I was still just as shut down (you couldnt be more shutdown than what I was lol so whats the point waisting HCG) rather blast it at the end with better results

[kelkel]

If the other posts did not make sense then it's a comprehension problem. What you're planning on doing is the Scally PCT Protocol. BTW, I believe he even agrees with HCG on cycle now...

[xzed]

xzed you're missing the point completely. HCG will not stimulate LH production, it only mimics it and will not show as increased LH on blood work.

Doesnt matter. At least I was expecting to see increased testo levels if there was own production. I dont care lh

[kelkel]

I dont care lh

No clue what that means....

[ojm3]

Test levels vary daily depending on sleep, diet, and last injection. You wouldnt notice the amount of test made by you compared to what your injecting. Not on paper or blood work the difference is too minuscule. you could be putting 10-100x the amount of natty test you have in your body depending on your cycle. the extra 600 ng/ml is maybe and extra 1%

[xzed]

No clue what that means....

I mean I am not woried about why doesnt lh increase. If its lh mimetic and if it increase own production at least I have to see increased Testo levels

[XxAndreaxX]

From what I read about HCG, I understand it simply replaces LH. So test isn’t supressed anymore during cycle, what’s still suppressed is only LH. While LH is suppressed, on HCG the rest of sexual functions will work normally. This is good during cycle, where AAS would also suppress LH, but its bad during PCT, where you’re interested to restore mainly LH.
I read some articles from people using HCG to maintain TRT levels during cycle without using test.
Now, I don’t really know if what I’m writing is true, but anyways I better use HCG during cycle to avoid testicular shrinkage, and no HCG during PCT, first because my nuts have normal size, second, because I dont want to further mess with LH.

[austinite]

Shucks. I missed all the fun. Looks like kel and Marcus got it covered.

[clarky.]

Shucks. I missed all the fun. Looks like kel and Marcus got it covered.

yip i was waiting on your reply as well it would have been fun aust.

[jimmyinkedup]

Yes several people in this thread have no idea what hcg is actually doing for them and why it is prudent on cycle.
Oh and the Rich Piana ref doesnt applly at all. He uses thousands of ius hcg/week to bridge between cycles, not as a pct or for any other reason. Which for him, ok fine, but for anyone that wants to maintain leydig cell function and avoid desensitization it makes no sense at all to do.

[kelkel]

I had two blood test

2 months after PCT and 4 months after PCT

no change I was still at 270ng/dl
I am currently on my 2nd PCT doing 1000iu EOD for 10days and gonna be doing clomid starting in a few days (im at my 8th day of HCG today)

Did you have pre-cycle BW to compare this to?
Good luck and post up your next BW results on this thread please.

[Lemonada8]

whew... the title scared me for a bit... glad it got taken care of tho.

ill just say HCG on cycle is best, maintians testicular function and helps recovery due to the testes still workin during ur cycle and the pituitary gland recovers rather quickly ( most shutdown is due to the testes recovering but if they never get shut down then they doitn have to recover as much)

any other questions im sure they will get ansewred but uc an always PM me

[kelkel]

whew... the title scared me for a bit... glad it got taken care of tho.

ill just say HCG on cycle is best, maintians testicular function and helps recovery due to the testes still workin during ur cycle and the pituitary gland recovers rather quickly ( most shutdown is due to the testes recovering but if they never get shut down then they doitn have to recover as much)

any other questions im sure they will get ansewred but uc an always PM me

You've been MIA?

[xzed]

hCG is suppressive! Since we know that hCG mimics LH, then we know that in the presence of exogenous LH, the pituitary gland will not produce LH.

Where this information come from? As I know LH can be suppressed by only androjens and can increase by gnrh which come from hypothalamus. Is there any negative feedback system between gnrh and lh?
And if your information is right why damn company says use this drug for hipogonothropic patients. Why urologist dont let petients to produce their "natural" Lh if it could supresed by hcg?
By the way sorry for my first information. I didnt try to say hcg can increase lh. I just want to say if hcg works on cycle if leyding cells produce testo at least we have to see an increase on blood.
On article which marcus shared there was an increase by 500ui/w hcg on 200mg/w testo cycle. And I am wondering now if 500 hcg ui/w wasnt not enough on my 500 mg testo cycle. Maybe this why I couldnt see testo increase. And another thing is if it works on cycle it doenst mean you cant use it post cycle which make more sense

[Mr.BB]

why damn company says use this drug for hipogonothropic patients.

To kick start the gonads.

Hypogonadism can be primary or secundary, primary is directly related to the testis, secundary can have a variety of reasons.

So many ppl have already tried to tell you that HCG is used on cycle to maintain some testicular function so that when its time to restart the testis it will be easier. But of course this is not 100% sure like everything in medicine.
It seems you don't want to understand...

[kelkel]

Where this information come from?

Pretty much any medical study........

[xzed]

To kick start the gonads.

Hypogonadism can be primary or secundary, primary is directly related to the testis, secundary can have a variety of reasons.

So many ppl have already tried to tell you that HCG is used on cycle to maintain some testicular function so that when its time to restart the testis it will be easier. But of course this is not 100% sure like everything in medicine.
It seems you don't want to understand...

I got the idea. Keeping own production. Better recovery...but I already know what you talked about. The problem is I couldnt maintain any testiculer function during cycle. I am trying to understand what was my wrong. I used pregnyl which come from farmacy and i was carefull about preparing and keeping etc. My testicles was got pretty hard atrophy and my blood levels were same after hcg . You guys really got better recovery with hcg?so prove it. I mean not with subjective values. Show that with blood levels, usg proved testicle size etc.
And I dont understand why u all acting like hcg after cycle is big mistake. I saw a lot of doctor use it for treatment of eksojen testo induced hypogonotropic hypoginadism which u also can find on pubmed articles. After a good hcg treatment lh wasn't supressed at all. It recover itself as the same speed of without hcg. My only worries about desensitized receptors which could come with high dosage.
By the way hypogonotropic hypoginadism already mean seconder.

[XxAndreaxX]

I got the idea. Keeping own production. Better recovery...but I already know what you talked about. The problem is I couldnt maintain any testiculer function during cycle. I am trying to understand what was my wrong. I used pregnyl which come from farmacy and i was carefull about preparing and keeping etc. My testicles was got pretty hard atrophy and my blood levels were same after hcg . You guys really got better recovery with hcg?so prove it. I mean not with subjective values. Show that with blood levels, usg proved testicle size etc.
And I dont understand why u all acting like hcg after cycle is big mistake. I saw a lot of doctor use it for treatment of eksojen testo induced hypogonotropic hypoginadism which u also can find on pubmed articles. After a good hcg treatment lh wasn't supressed at all. It recover itself as the same speed of without hcg. My only worries about desensitized receptors which could come with high dosage.
By the way hypogonotropic hypoginadism already mean seconder.

Because testicular shrinkage could be very very painful!!! And atrophy its not very good for testicles, its better to avoid it.
If you avoid shrinkage during cycle, you don’t need to take further hcg during PCT, and anyways, clomid will make your testicles very full.
I always took HCG during cycle and PCT, but I won’t take it any more during PCT, I think its totally useless.

[kelkel]

And I dont understand why u all acting like hcg after cycle is big mistake.

It's not a mistake. Just science evolves and more effective and efficient methods present themselves. Hence, HCG during your cycle is the dominant practice now. I'm sure you'll be successful using Scally's method.

Re HCG, Austin said it best in one of his educational articles, and I paraphrase "You don't put your seat belt on after the accident."

[marcus300]

Pretty much any medical study........

He's 19yrs old and probably ****ed his natural test levels up anyway, just let him get on with it he doesn't understand what we are trying to explain. Lost cause imho.

[Lemonada8]

If you are on a cycle, your natural test is going to be suppressed via the exogenous testosterone in your system. Any endogenous test made by the testes from the HCG is going to be minimal addition ( barely detectable if at all), so using bloodwork to show an increase in test is going to be useless while on a cycle. The key usage for using HCG on a cycle is to keep the testes working period, has nothing to do with increasing test levels while on a cycle.
They way that the docs are using the HCG is to supply the body with LH because for some reason the body isnt making testosterone/LH. There are few studies done regarding HCG and its usage during a cycle but there are a few key ones that really support the usage of HCG on cycle ( one has already been linked previously).

I am really lost at what you are asking and what you are confused about.

And PLEASE use proper grammar and spelling, that makes it even harder. and its hYpo not hIpo... thats just bothersome

You've been MIA?

yea been busy w/ surgery n other rotations n workin on residencies ( tryin to go into gen surg or ENT)... so my life is pretty much at the hospital now

[kelkel]

yea been busy w/ surgery n other rotations n workin on residencies ( tryin to go into gen surg or ENT)... so my life is pretty much at the hospital now

Glad it's working out for you Lemonada.

[ojm3]

Hell man just look at their screen names. That will tell you the caliber of people we are dealing with.

[NACH3]

I agree with you 10000%
I took HCG on cycle at 250iu x 2 a week during the whole 14 weeks that i was on
I got blood done after I finished test and I was completly shut down
HCG did not do anything for me, just wasted HCG


what doses would you say are good and how often after a 14-20week test cycle?

Of course your gonna be completely shut down... 1 pin of test will basically shut you down...

hCG is also a suppressive.... But like Marcus stated - it's very important on cycle: it mimics LH while keeping testicular atrophy at bay.... Making you closer to recovery! IMHO - if you can prevent this why not be safe and do so? Plus it aids in your recovery aslong as your PCT(clomid/Nolva) is straight...

This subject has been being asked a lot more frequently... Seems more case sensitive than anything... Any other advice on hCG for PCT please chime in!

[xzed]

He's 19yrs old and probably ****ed his natural test levels up anyway, just let him get on with it he doesn't understand what we are trying to explain. Lost cause imho.

I already got a lot of good information and understand what you said. Especially your pubmed article surprised me.

If you are on a cycle, your natural test is going to be suppressed via the exogenous testosterone in your system. Any endogenous test made by the testes from the HCG is going to be minimal addition ( barely detectable if at all), so using bloodwork to show an increase in test is going to be useless while on a cycle. The key usage for using HCG on a cycle is to keep the testes working period, has nothing to do with increasing test levels while on a cycle.
They way that the docs are using the HCG is to supply the body with LH because for some reason the body isnt making testosterone/LH. There are few studies done regarding HCG and its usage during a cycle but there are a few key ones that really support the usage of HCG on cycle ( one has already been linked previously).

I am really lost at what you are asking and what you are confused about.

And PLEASE use proper grammar and spelling, that makes it even harder. and its hYpo not hIpo... thats just bothersome

yea been busy w/ surgery n other rotations n workin on residencies ( tryin to go into gen surg or ENT)... so my life is pretty much at the hospital now

Thanks for your effort. I agree most of them. I just tried find real clue to if its works. You can be right about blood levels. I was expecting to see an increase . Maybe its not possible on this dosages or its not necessary.
I am always searching and i dont accept everything which accepted here as rule. Pregnyl on cycle is new procedure and still should be argued.
By the way sorry for my English. I am not expert. And I am writing via phone which has annoying touch sensitivity

Hell man just look at their screen names. That will tell you the caliber of people we are dealing with.

Is this your way to understand? Perfect