Is America Still America?

[Metalject]

When you consider that America was an idea, does that idea still exist? U2’s Bono said it best “England, great country, but not an idea. Ireland, great country, but not an idea.” But what was the idea? I submit the idea was simple – live free, make own choices, keep what you earn, give to those you wish, submit to no government and if you do these things without hurting anyone else you are free to continue doing them.

Soldiers, military guys – when you fight, are you still fighting to protect this idea or are you fighting for a government? Does there come a point in time when following orders simply because they’re given is no longer the right thing to do?

Citizens – does there come a time when you no longer hold pride in your country? Is there a point when the lyrics to the songs that represent it are hollow? If you are a free society that is over its government and not a society (like all others) that has a government over it, does there come a time when you no longer support it? Does there come a time when people say they will no longer pay taxes to a government that has aborted and perverted “the idea”? Does there come a time when people say they will not obey a government that has aborted and perverted “the idea”?

Where is the line? Where and when does this “no more” point exist? To say it doesn’t exist is foolish. The very basis of the idea came from exactly that, men choosing to say “no more.” And man is no different now, not at his core. So where is the line? This isn’t to say if and when that line is crossed that society will be successful in taking the idea back, that took a miracle the first time and would so a second. But the question is the same, when is enough enough?

[< <Samson> >]

No

The U.S. Is not the America it once was


I came from the USSR when it was still under communistic rule. Back then America was looked up to & spoken of like the all knowing all seeing entity.

Now - it's more of a giant politically correct consumer of useless elsewhere goods.

At least the U.S. Isn't gonna go 3rd world country status- good enough for me, I guess.

[Metalject]

No

The U.S. Is not the America it once was


I came from the USSR when it was still under communistic rule. Back then America was looked up to & spoken of like the all knowing all seeing entity.

Now - it's more of a giant politically correct consumer of useless elsewhere goods.

At least the U.S. Isn't gonna go 3rd world country status- good enough for me, I guess.

I'll agree that the U.S. is far from the worst place on earth and still a better place to live than the majority of choices on earth. And personally, just my opinion and feelings on the subject, if America is respected across the globe or even admired doesn't mean much to me. What matters is it still the embodiment of the idea or not. Granted, if it is/were then it would hold more esteem in the eyes of the world citizenry, but plenty will always hate America regardless, always have even when the idea was in full effect.

On the idea of the politically correct consumer, that's definitely one of the reasons America has begun to slip, no argument there. But it's just one of many reasons.

BTW, I had some childhood friends who came here from the USSR. I didn't know the full story, like I said I was a kid, but what from what I understood life seemed, for lack of a better phrase, pretty suck ass over there and their story of how they got here was a rough one. Anyway, when they got here they had less than nothing and were thrilled. Wish I knew what happened to them.

[< <Samson> >]

Well,

That about covers it


Back in the day before my parents made a break for it(literally middle of the night, grab your shit - we're out) everyone seen the U.S. As just a true place of opportunity. When we finally landed in the States after a year of mobbing from country to country we had nothing & were homeless for a short period of time.

Even during this time it seemed way better than living behind the iron curtain. I was only ten but just seen the opportunity here that just wasn't any here else we have been.

But, as time passed so did my outlook on all of the available opportunity

Now, the majority of who succeed in my eyes are the same type of scum that succeed in 3rd world countries.

I do the same shit here I would be doing back there - straight scum bag shit. Just because it gets me paid like nothing else would.

Everything from Obama on down is a front - life isn't just awesome and easy, especially after the economic downfall a decade ago.

[system admin]

the answer is HELL no and to be honest I almost dont care much anymore because WE as a country are not run by truth, honesty, and integriety, WE are run by selfish, greedy, power hungry mother Fu$kers that care little about the average person, UNLESS they are looking for a vote to keep them in office.

Nice Thread for a weekend... but thanks for pissing me off hahaha!!!

Bc

[Metalject]

Well,

That about covers it


Back in the day before my parents made a break for it(literally middle of the night, grab your shit - we're out) everyone seen the U.S. As just a true place of opportunity. When we finally landed in the States after a year of mobbing from country to country we had nothing & were homeless for a short period of time.

Even during this time it seemed way better than living behind the iron curtain. I was only ten but just seen the opportunity here that just wasn't any here else we have been.

But, as time passed so did my outlook on all of the available opportunity

Now, the majority of who succeed in my eyes are the same type of scum that succeed in 3rd world countries.

I do the same shit here I would be doing back there - straight scum bag shit. Just because it gets me paid like nothing else would.

Everything from Obama on down is a front - life isn't just awesome and easy, especially after the economic downfall a decade ago.

Sounds pretty much like the story I heard from the people I mentioned in the other post.

As for life being awesome and easy, I don't think it's supposed to be awesome and easy just because, and that's not my issue. I'm not even asking for fairness in terms of we all get equal stuff. I simply want the ability and freedom to live the way I want to live, keep what I earn, help who I want to help and the right to say no when I don't want to support something.

But what bothers me more, far more than the idiots in Washington, is the people. Most everyone's "don't care" attitude, their zombie take it up the ass attitude, and complete blindness to reality just about drives me insane!

[Metalject]

the answer is HELL no and to be honest I almost dont care much anymore because WE as a country are not run by truth, honesty, and integriety, WE are run by selfish, greedy, power hungry mother Fu$kers that care little about the average person, UNLESS they are looking for a vote to keep them in office.

Nice Thread for a weekend... but thanks for pissing me off hahaha!!!

Bc

I can't argue with that's what we're run by, but it's our own damn fault, that's the frustrating part.

Glad I could raise your blood pressure. Happy weekend!

[fitnesstrainer]

Coming from a soldier no. The idea your speaking of is dead and gone. I joined the Army because I love this country, I believe it's the greatest in fact and to support my family. We need to get back to ACTUALLY being the greatest for sure though. I still believe there's more opportunity here than most places but our government has screwed us over big time and will continue to do so until we put an end to it.

[Metalject]

Coming from a soldier no. The idea your speaking of is dead and gone. I joined the Army because I love this country, I believe it's the greatest in fact and to support my family. We need to get back to ACTUALLY being the greatest for sure though. I still believe there's more opportunity here than most places but our government has screwed us over big time and will continue to do so until we put an end to it.

I'm confused by our answer. You say you love this country, but if the idea is dead and gone is it still this country? If the country you love doesn't exist what are you supporting? I'm not any any way attempting to diminish you or any military guy at all, far from it.

[< <Samson> >]

It's not supposed to be easy by any means. But, legitimacy has to look clear - it very far from it.

The idea of true hard(physical, mental or whatever) work had a clear pay off.

Now - well, "we" the ones that do. Slime by, we do everything we can to make it work for us.

[< <Samson> >]

the answer is HELL no and to be honest I almost dont care much anymore because WE as a country are not run by truth, honesty, and integriety, WE are run by selfish, greedy, power hungry mother Fu$kers that care little about the average person, UNLESS they are looking for a vote to keep them in office. Nice Thread for a weekend... but thanks for pissing me off hahaha!!! Bc

Well, that covers it quite well indeed

[fitnesstrainer]

I'm confused by our answer. You say you love this country, but if the idea is dead and gone is it still this country? If the country you love doesn't exist what are you supporting? I'm not any any way attempting to diminish you or any military guy at all, far from it.

I guess I'm supporting and fighting for the hope that it will one day return to the amazing place it was. It saddens and angers me to see it turned upside down, mostly by politics in my opinion. I think it's still America. We have strayed quite a bit from the ideal but I think we can still get back on track. Or maybe I'm still young and naive. Just have to wait and see. Totally understand what your saying btw and took no offense. The only thing anyone in this world IS entitled to is their opinion haha.

[likelifting]

Without Veterans Day, there would be no Presidents Day or MLK Day or Ceasar Chavez Day, etc etc, etc.

It was the military that made this country strong along with work ethic and not wanting handouts....especially handouts from what some call our Gov't and others call taxpayers who are paying the handouts.

Back in the day, I was a liberal. We tried to have 'honest conversations' about things...Viet Nam War etc and the conservatives didn't want to talk.

NOW ITS COMPLETELY REVERSED in America. Liberals don't want to have honest conversations.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali was asked to speak at Yale and the libs shut her down with protests.

Condi Rice was asked to speak and liberals protested until the university relented.

Why do libs want to shut down freedom of speech?

Its goes against everything libs were back in the day.

We are a skeleton of our former self.

[davidtheman100]

My generation sucks. We appreciate nothing, and are ignorant to the world. We are self-entitled and selfish in every sense of the word. Last generation worked more jobs, did more things for their family and knew what the world loyal meant. Generation before that? Arguably the best generation of all time.. The WW2 generation was amazing and really made America what it is today.. We take so much shit for granted like education and what our parents do for us that it becomes second nature to expect everything given to you with no work put in to get it, and no sacrifice made physical, or mental to reach your goals.

This kind of relates to this website. I've seen multiple guys here say that back in the 80's etc 18 19 20 year olds etc ALL had to pay their dues, and would get laughed at if they ever considered steroids at that age. When an older guy talked some shit to them, they'd listen. When they were yelled at by their parents, or spanked by their parents, they'd listen the next time. It is the exact fvcking opposite of that right now. The scary thing is that this is the future of America.

Is it still America, yes. It's a MUCH different America though...

[likelifting]

Almost sounds like I'm pissed. lol

As Churchill once said..."To be young and not liberal, means you have not heart. To be old and not conservative, means you have no brain."

Love it.

[Metalject]

Without Veterans Day, there would be no Presidents Day or MLK Day or Ceasar Chavez Day, etc etc, etc.

It was the military that made this country strong along with work ethic and not wanting handouts....especially handouts from what some call our Gov't and others call taxpayers who are paying the handouts.

Back in the day, I was a liberal. We tried to have 'honest conversations' about things...Viet Nam War etc and the conservatives didn't want to talk.

NOW ITS COMPLETELY REVERSED in America. Liberals don't want to have honest conversations.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali was asked to speak at Yale and the libs shut her down with protests.

Condi Rice was asked to speak and liberals protested until the university relented.

Why do libs want to shut down freedom of speech?

Its goes against everything libs were back in the day.

We are a skeleton of our former self.

The one thing I'd disagree with is the military is what made us strong. The military is a tool of the government, it's needed for the government to fulfill it's primary duty, to ensure the people's right to liberty is protected. It's the people themselves, however, that has made us strong, that's one of the unique things about the U.S....it wasn't it's military or government that made it strong. The U.S. always held a very unique relationship between people and the government. People were on top, and government served the people. It's been flipped upside down, in fact, the term "public service" when said by government is now a sickening one. Again, none of that is said to diminish military service, not even remotely. An appreciation for the military is a needed and important thing - but what's assbackwards is support for a government just because it's the government and a blind following of what used to be.

And you're 100% right, liberals, the supposed individuals of tolerance, are the most intolerant people on earth. But the disease itself, not just the intolerance of other ideas and views but the disease that's infected America is not liberalism, it's progressivism and just as many of those individuals exist on the right.

[Euroholic]

I struggle to understand why the usa has such weak immigration policies. It is already an established country It has so many people without work and yet they seem to just keep allowing more people to flock in and give illegals citizenship. Why cant they just Consolidate from the inside then if more labour is needed bring in more people. i may be crazy but does this not make sense? And i saw on tv that illegal immigrants are being issued drivers licences is this not crazy? Its stuff like this that make the outside world laugh. The usa is meant to be the big bad wolf and yet there crumbling from the inside.

Not to mention that americans call it wheres waldo when it should be wheres wally!!!!!!!

[< <Samson> >]

Theoretically there should be no such thing as an illegal citizen in the U.S.


Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

This has long changed and so did the people. This country was taken advantage by and shit just stood by. And here we are picking up the pieces. People in general just lost decency and as time passes it just gets worse - because we do what we have to do & we can't change society < at least that's the way everyone thinks.

[fitnesstrainer]

I struggle to understand why the usa has such weak immigration policies. It is already an established country It has so many people without work and yet they seem to just keep allowing more people to flock in and give illegals citizenship. Why cant they just Consolidate from the inside then if more labour is needed bring in more people. i may be crazy but does this not make sense? And i saw on tv that illegal immigrants are being issued drivers licences is this not crazy? Its stuff like this that make the outside world laugh. The usa is meant to be the big bad wolf and yet there crumbling from the inside. Not to mention that americans call it wheres waldo when it should be wheres wally!!!!!!!

Because someone's feelings would get hurt and that unacceptable to the liberals in our country.

[system admin]

The reason we allow so many illegals in this country is because the left side of politics know that those people will vote for handouts and a helping hand. I have a HUGE heart and would like to see the world a nice cozy place where we all gather around and sing, but that is a fantasy and if you live in a fantasy you had better wake up because reality will punch you straight in your mouth.

Every civilization destroys itself and we are getting a front row seat to the show. It wont fall in our life time, but the ball is in motion and it will continue to decline. Get what you can out of it and look out for yourself, friends and loved ones. The rest are on their own because no one else is looking after you...... UNLESS you give your soul to the government and pledge loyalty. THEN, you can struggle just as bad as you are now, without having to do a damn thing to make ends meet. The rest of the country who want a better life will pay for those people.

America IS still the greatest country in the world, however the standard around the world is dropping like a stone and thats not saying much for how great we really are in standards set a hundred years ago.

Ah... good O'l political talk. I have dish network and FOX news is no longer playing on the companies network. Ive been forced to watch other news channels and I have to say that we are NOT getting the real FULL message people. The media has become the machine that will own us all one day soon.

[jimmyinkedup]

"If you do not stand for something you will fall for anything"
In our countries short history I feel we went for standing for something to now falling for anything. There is something to be said to standing and fighting for certain truths that cannot be denied as men. Freedom , opportunity, democracy - the principles the country was founded on. Regardless of the motivation the principles were true and pure. That has deteriorated. It is all for oneself and all for ones self interest. There is no more for the greater good. Big $ and power has done what it always done- corrupted. The checks put in place to ensure this from haopeneing were ignored. Apathy became the norm, not caring cause it doesnt effect me became the motto, not realizing without standing for the right things it soon would effect you.
I fear things may have to get much worse and there will be a point where the country will either band together and start doing the right things for the right reasons or we will slip into a decline that we may not be able to recover from.

[BG]

Agreed this country has plunged and I honestly feel it's read to collapse. Look at history, all the world powers ended up falling. I used to be intrigued by politics at one point, but now it disgusts me. It also been at a rapid speed as of late, it just seems they are constantly stepping backwards. I thought (going out on a limb here) Ron Paul would be our chance to pull things back around. We need a non politician, someone who is genuinely looking out for the best interest of the nation. Can this be done, I doubt it, I think the other branch's are to far gone also. Everyone just at this point cant work together. I dont even want to think about whats up next after this upcoming election, Im scared to think if Hillary Clinton becomes our leader.

I so glad I found my faith in Yahweh, now in Jesus I have hope.

[BG]

The reason we allow so many illegals in this country is because the left side of politics know that those people will vote for handouts and a helping hand.

Look back politicians used to sit at the docks and give out bread as the immigrants stepped off the boat.

[BG]

I struggle to understand why the usa has such weak immigration policies. It is already an established country It has so many people without work and yet they seem to just keep allowing more people to flock in and give illegals citizenship. Why cant they just Consolidate from the inside then if more labour is needed bring in more people. i may be crazy but does this not make sense? And i saw on tv that illegal immigrants are being issued drivers licences is this not crazy? Its stuff like this that make the outside world laugh. The usa is meant to be the big bad wolf and yet there crumbling from the inside.

Not to mention that americans call it wheres waldo when it should be wheres wally!!!!!!!

They cant/wont seal the boarder for one.

[JAYROD]

for all of you that have basically said that liberals are at the root of most all glaring problems in this country - YOU ARE CORRECT!

[JAYROD]

Look back politicians used to sit at the docks and give out bread as the immigrants stepped off the boat.

now when they step off the boat they register them automatically as democrats.

[likelifting]

I have dish network and FOX news is no longer playing on the companies network. Ive been forced to watch other news channels and I have to say that we are NOT getting the real FULL message people. The media has become the machine that will own us all one day soon.

This is true and should concern all of us.

Sometimes I turn from Foxnews to another channel to see how the left is covering the story. THEY AREN'T EVEN COVERING THE STORIES.

I asked a liberal buddy of mine what he thought about the IRS targeting conservative groups. He said "I haven't heard about it". He considered himself fairly informed. But the likes of MSNBC chooses not to cover these stories. Instead they find something to cover that fits their narrative of 'old gray haired men are evil.

[system admin]

^^^^ Thats why we are doomed. We are uninformed and the media is controlled by a political party. How scary is that gentlemen?

[< <Samson> >]

Hearing this from people that actually know what they are talking about is fairly disturbing


I have heard the same shit ever since the economy took a dump a decade ago


People who understand politics and the economy say the same shit

-it's not coming back

[Honkey_Kong]

America as a nation, does not still exist.

The fact of the matter is America is no-longer a group of people with similar backgrounds, values, ethnicity and a common sense of destiny. And really as I think about it, I don't know if you could say America ever truly was that.

We romanticize the idea of what America was.. But it never really was that.

What we have is a country and a government that doesn't represent the people that live inside it.
We don't have any culture in us. That''s why we go from one fad to the next.

[corageon]

The reason we allow so many illegals in this country is because the left side of politics know that those people will vote for handouts and a helping hand. I have a HUGE heart and would like to see the world a nice cozy place where we all gather around and sing, but that is a fantasy and if you live in a fantasy you had better wake up because reality will punch you straight in your mouth.

Every civilization destroys itself and we are getting a front row seat to the show. It wont fall in our life time, but the ball is in motion and it will continue to decline. Get what you can out of it and look out for yourself, friends and loved ones. The rest are on their own because no one else is looking after you...... UNLESS you give your soul to the government and pledge loyalty. THEN, you can struggle just as bad as you are now, without having to do a damn thing to make ends meet. The rest of the country who want a better life will pay for those people.

America IS still the greatest country in the world, however the standard around the world is dropping like a stone and thats not saying much for how great we really are in standards set a hundred years ago.

Ah... good O'l political talk. I have dish network and FOX news is no longer playing on the companies network. Ive been forced to watch other news channels and I have to say that we are NOT getting the real FULL message people. The media has become the machine that will own us all one day soon.

Couldn't have said it better myself, you're exactly right, you can't please everyone...but I also have a feeling it's beyond lobbyists, OBAMA has a dictitorial fantasy to go along with his fantasy of saving everyone.

[lovbyts]

This is true and should concern all of us.

Sometimes I turn from Foxnews to another channel to see how the left is covering the story. THEY AREN'T EVEN COVERING THE STORIES.

I asked a liberal buddy of mine what he thought about the IRS targeting conservative groups. He said "I haven't heard about it". He considered himself fairly informed. But the likes of MSNBC chooses not to cover these stories. Instead they find something to cover that fits their narrative of 'old gray haired men are evil.

I use to have cable $$$$ I dropped them and went to dish. Finally dish got $$$ so I dropped them and now use ROKU and Amazon Prime. They have fox news and more than you can imagine. I also use XBMC and get any movie I want for free, even still in theaters.

My cable bill is $9 a month for Amazon prime and $29 for DSL for internet. 1 yr using it and its great.

Anyone over 40 can tell you how much America has changed. Our rights are being stripped daily we just dont know most of them. Its all about control and of course money.

[jolter604]

I dont know anymore it seems like everything is made in china or canada,even the powder in oil is china.I was listening to some people at work talk about russia and some other country were trying to make a new world currency and eliminate the dollar.I know a quick buck is always better for these american companies but spreading the money with other smaller businesses more often would be nice.

[likelifting]

I use to have cable $$$$ I dropped them and went to dish. Finally dish got $$$ so I dropped them and now use ROKU and Amazon Prime. They have fox news and more than you can imagine. I also use XBMC and get any movie I want for free, even still in theaters.

My cable bill is $9 a month for Amazon prime and $29 for DSL for internet. 1 yr using it and its great.

Anyone over 40 can tell you how much America has changed. Our rights are being stripped daily we just dont know most of them. Its all about control and of course money.

Since I moved from my home state, I have to subscribe to DirectTV because they have all of the sports packages. No one else does that AFAICT.

[Rwy]

America is a corporation not a country

[< <Samson> >]

America is a corporation not a country

Best way to put it, that's for sure

Sure is ran like one too, time to lay off some peasants

[lovbyts]

Since I moved from my home state, I have to subscribe to DirectTV because they have all of the sports packages. No one else does that AFAICT.

You have not looked into XBMC have you.

[Metalject]

Agreed this country has plunged and I honestly feel it's read to collapse. Look at history, all the world powers ended up falling. I used to be intrigued by politics at one point, but now it disgusts me. It also been at a rapid speed as of late, it just seems they are constantly stepping backwards. I thought (going out on a limb here) Ron Paul would be our chance to pull things back around. We need a non politician, someone who is genuinely looking out for the best interest of the nation. Can this be done, I doubt it, I think the other branch's are to far gone also. Everyone just at this point cant work together. I dont even want to think about whats up next after this upcoming election, Im scared to think if Hillary Clinton becomes our leader.

I so glad I found my faith in Yahweh, now in Jesus I have hope.

America is not ready for a modern, non-traditional candidate like Ron Paul, and he knew that. I think Paul understood his position was to help create an awareness of common sense positions. His role, and again, I think he understood this, was to begin an opening of the doorway for such candidates....sort of a first step. Unfortunately, because of the nature of something like this and how things have evolved in the U.S. over the last several years, America is going to have reach a state of great pain for a candidate like this to truly ever stand a chance. Right now, even if we won't admit it as a society, we still elect people on the basis of sound bytes, talking points, personality and emotion. You would think common sense would tell us these are useless and meaningless things to base a vote on, you would think a significant economic downturn and an event like 9/11 would be the keys to a common sense awakening, but sadly and apparently they are not.

[Metalject]

America as a nation, does not still exist.

The fact of the matter is America is no-longer a group of people with similar backgrounds, values, ethnicity and a common sense of destiny. And really as I think about it, I don't know if you could say America ever truly was that.

We romanticize the idea of what America was.. But it never really was that.

What we have is a country and a government that doesn't represent the people that live inside it.
We don't have any culture in us. That''s why we go from one fad to the next.

In many ways you're right, America never was a country of shared similar backgrounds, ethnicities and to a degree values have always been different. But the overall point in America was supposed to be a shared interest and desire in being able to choose your own destiny, to be beholden to no man or government. Sadly that idea has become a fantasy - we view things like the Declaration of Independence as simple little things that we learned about in 6th grade social studies rather than the intrinsic words that define us as a country, a unique country. We compare ourselves to other countries, a useless endeavor as we were never intended to be comparable.

Will it get worse? Probably, I do not think we're at the point of no return, but we are rapidly approaching it and are closer every day. Is a giant reset, a catastrophe going to occur? I think that is unavoidable at this stage, when is impossible to predict, but in our lifetime or the next are equally possible. The American dollar loses its value, truly crumbles, which can happen at this delicate stage anytime in the next 24hrs to the next 30yrs (impossible to predict) but it is going to happen and when it does we crumble. The only question at that stage is are we past the point of no return, can we reclaim or do we simply become an unrecognizable nation that carries the name of a nation of old?

As others have mentioned in this thread, liberals being the problem, in my opinion liberals are NOT the problem. That is simply another talking point we've let creep in. Progressivism is the problem, social justice (an impossible cause) is the problem and both modern day liberals and conservatives share this problem...it's a problem that's infected both sides. When Americans recognize the disease of progressivism, then we begin to fix the problem. But right now we're too busy arguing democrat and republican, meaningless social issues, and worrying about whatever gives us happiness in the moment.

[likelifting]

You have not looked into XBMC have you.

I haven't heard of it. But thank you. I'm going to look into it now.