Vitamin D or Hrt

[ruffcute]

I want say thank you to all they guys that have helped me out over the past few years, I really wouldn't have been able to cope with my levels of Test being all over the place without getting your guys help and advice.

My last thread posted all my results from before and my story of why I needed legit HRT.

I had a follow up visit to my Endo today where I got my new set of blood work results. It showed some surprising results. It showed my Total Test was pretty low, just still within the range (this has been like this since last year) So the doc's again arnt doing anything for it as its just in the range. What they also showed was that my Vitamin D levels were incredibly low. He put me on Vitamin D booster pack for 15 weeks and I can get 4 repeat precriptions (so a year). I'm meant to go back in 3 months time and see how I feel.

I still feel like crap and its been getting worse (usual low T symptoms, I also took a booster for Low Vit D last year too but that didn't help), so with this knowledge of my new blood results I don't know whether to go and find a HRT specialist in my area and get some HRT or to just take the Vitamin D for a long time and wait it out, last time I took a heavy dose of Vitamin D like this it didn't help my symptoms at all and the doctor made me do a 15 week course and come back in a year. Im a little confused to what to do. I have attached my full bloodwork so hopefully someone can help me put it in perspective. I swear you guys know more than 99% of the doctors out there. And I appreciate your help as always.

[Simon1972]

seek out an anti aging dr- the A4m website has list of Drs that prescribe trt for aging purposes ,if you can afford it.


Directory

other than that- stay on vitamin 5000Ius a day, vitamin K2, get lots of sun, magnesium daily and a multi daily ( for life).

Hopefully your new dr will prescribe trt for you-

[ruffcute]

See that's the thing, since my last boost of Vit D last year, when he gave me a 15 week course, I have been taking around 4-5 drops (1000ui each) every other day. Sure I missed a day or two here or there but I thought I was keeping it maintained and then realize this.

So you still think my bloods for the test levels show that I need additional test supplements?

Also wanted to ask, how does it work with the Anti- ageing doctors. Its a cost to see them right, what else do they charge for, the prescription? anything else? I will get the meds of my insurance plan

[Low Testosterone]

It's not what I'd call an absolute but most men with low testosterone levels have low vitamin D levels. Then again, many tend to have low vitiamin D levels regardless of testosterone levels.

Ranges don't mean much - but very few endos will admit this, primarily because most do not know where or how these ranges came about, they just assume they're correct.

You need a new doctor.

[ruffcute]

It seems like there are no doctors here in Alberta that understand, I might just have to go to a anti aging one, but Im a little nervous. I don't really know what to expect as they may be over zealous with providing prescriptions. And Im going to be taking them to maintain a healthy well being so hope they don't pump me full to get more $$

[2Sox]

Well, I'm scratching my head on this one. I never heard of a doctor prescribing vitamin D to raise abnormal testosterone levels. And I never heard of that as a replacement therapy option. You sure do need a new doctor. (Just as an aside: Go to Vitacost.com or Vitamin Shoppe and buy a bottle of Vitamin D. One of the cheapest supplements there are. What is this booster pack thing??)

Consider flying in to your closest "LowTestosterone.com" clinic.

[ruffcute]

The Vitamin D booster is these small little (kinda like fish oil) caplets that I take once a week, each contains 50,000 ui of Vitamin D (that's a shitlot) and I take one weekly for 15 weeks or up to a year as he gave me refills. He says my low T symptoms are cause by the low Vit D.

He is a standard Endo doc that I was referred to by my GP (I don't pay him), but reluctant to give me the Testosterone after looking at my results, that's why Im confused if my bloodwork shows that I don't really need TRT.

[2Sox]

From my knowledge, there is no appreciable increase in testosterone level through Vit D supplementation. Good that you're not paying out of pocket for anything. What I was saying is that it's cheap to buy your own vitamins at a health food store.

Have you found the cause of your low T symptoms?

[ruffcute]

From my knowledge, there is no appreciable increase in testosterone level through Vit D supplementation. Good that you're not paying out of pocket for anything. What I was saying is that it's cheap to buy your own vitamins at a health food store.

Have you found the cause of your low T symptoms?

I had one of my testicles removed.

[2Sox]

Sorry to hear that. Would have been good to tell us that from the get-go.

Perhaps you haven't told us the whole story here. I was just discussing your issues with my wife who is a PA. She informed me that your doctor is likely pushing the vitamin D because it's believed to be anti cancer. People with cancer have been found to have extremely low D levels. Probably some extra protection for your remaining testicle. I don't think he's using D to treat your low T symptoms. It just doesn't make sense.

Have you asked him outright to start you on a treatment regimen with testosterone and hCG? I think there is too much missing in your story. It just doesn't add up.

[Simon1972]

I had one of my testicles removed.

the penny drops.

testes produce testosterone, this kind of info ussually helps in helping us help you.

assuming your dr knows you had a teste removed, it makes common sense to get help in the form of trt- try the anti aging path, yes it will cost. but if you value your health it will be cheap.

[ruffcute]

Your right guys, I should have said. I had mentioned on a previously on a much earlier thread but should have posted it again. My bad. Sorry

Here's what happened.
I started my HRT in around 2008 I had a partially undescended testis removed at the advice of doctors who said it may lead to cancer if left where it was. I had it removed and felt like crap with low T symptoms. Got tested for Testosterone and it was found to be low and was put on Androgel for a few months before being switched to Sustanon 250 injections every 3 weeks, which they then changed to 2 weeks. This whole while I was trying to have a baby with my wife and didn’t realise the affect the Test was having on my sperm count. Already having only 1 testicle left I was freaking out. When I found out after doing a fertility test a few years into my HRT treatment (around 2011) I stopped it and waited for my sperm to return.
I have now moved to North America and we have a baby. Im still felling like crap and thought about getting back to the HRT. That's when I went to visit my endo last year and he found I had low Vitamin D originally.

[Simon1972]

Your right guys, I should have said. I had mentioned on a previously on a much earlier thread but should have posted it again. My bad. Sorry

Here's what happened.
I started my HRT in around 2008 I had a partially undescended testis removed at the advice of doctors who said it may lead to cancer if left where it was. I had it removed and felt like crap with low T symptoms. Got tested for Testosterone and it was found to be low and was put on Androgel for a few months before being switched to Sustanon 250 injections every 3 weeks, which they then changed to 2 weeks. This whole while I was trying to have a baby with my wife and didn’t realise the affect the Test was having on my sperm count. Already having only 1 testicle left I was freaking out. When I found out after doing a fertility test a few years into my HRT treatment (around 2011) I stopped it and waited for my sperm to return.
I have now moved to North America and we have a baby. Im still felling like crap and thought about getting back to the HRT. That's when I went to visit my endo last year and he found I had low Vitamin D originally.

simple,
find a new Dr,
take vitamin D,
get back on testosterone.

if you want another kid- get on hcg and try for kids, when the wife gets pregnant- get back on testosterone.

unless i missed something - this formula will secure your health for life.

very simple.

[Bliggity]

If you're in Alberta, Google these two anti-aging clinics that specialize in BHRT:

1. The hoffman Centre (Calgary)

2. Edmonton Bioidentical Doctor (Edmonton)

I hope that helps!

[2Sox]

simple,
find a new Dr,
take vitamin D,
get back on testosterone.

if you want another kid- get on hcg and try for kids, when the wife gets pregnant- get back on testosterone.

unless i missed something - this formula will secure your health for life.

very simple.

Only one thing I'd add to this very good advice: Get on testosterone and don't get off - ever.

[ruffcute]

simple,
find a new Dr,
take vitamin D,
get back on testosterone.

if you want another kid- get on hcg and try for kids, when the wife gets pregnant- get back on testosterone.

unless i missed something - this formula will secure your health for life.

very simple.

Thanks I will be doing all of these.

I just checked with a few doctors and what testosterone they write prescriptions for, contacted my insurance and they cover most of it. I'm already taking the vitamin D the last endo prescribed and will carry it on.

One question though, we do want another kid and was wondering what affects the hcg would have on my low t symptoms until I can switch to testosterone cypionate. And cypionate come in 10ml, and usual dosage suggested by doctors I called was 2ml - 200mg every two weeks, while I'm just thinking about this, what happens to the rest of the vial or bottle of I only use 2ml, can I store the rest?

[ruffcute]

If you're in Alberta, Google these two anti-aging clinics that specialize in BHRT:

1. The hoffman Centre (Calgary)

2. Edmonton Bioidentical Doctor (Edmonton)

I hope that helps!

Thanks man, this helped big time. I called the first guys and got great help, will look at seeing them and check out their prices.

[ruffcute]

Only one thing I'd add to this very good advice: Get on testosterone and don't get off - ever.

I won't be doing that again, we wanted a baby was the only reason. I won't make that call again.

[OingoBoingo]

One question though, we do want another kid and was wondering what affects the hcg would have on my low t symptoms until I can switch to testosterone cypionate. And cypionate come in 10ml, and usual dosage suggested by doctors I called was 2ml - 200mg every two weeks, while I'm just thinking about this, what happens to the rest of the vial or bottle of I only use 2ml, can I store the rest?

The levels at which we supplement hCG in are TRT protocols is generally around 700IU per week. This amount will stimulate the Leydig cells, but won't produce much Testosterone. You might feel a sense of well-being, but I wouldn't expect much more.

If the Testosterone comes in a vial, you'll only be loading the syringe with what you want to inject. Store the rest until the next shot.

If the Testosterone comes in ampules, load multiple syringes and keep them in the fridge.

Don't know if it was discussed in the thread, but you really don't want to be injecting once every two weeks. Work with your doctor to cut the dose in half and inject weekly.

[2Sox]

The levels at which we supplement hCG in are TRT protocols is generally around 700IU per week. This amount will stimulate the Leydig cells, but won't produce much Testosterone. You might feel a sense of well-being, but I wouldn't expect much more.

If the Testosterone comes in a vial, you'll only be loading the syringe with what you want to inject. Store the rest until the next shot.

If the Testosterone comes in ampules, load multiple syringes and keep them in the fridge.

Don't know if it was discussed in the thread, but you really don't want to be injecting once every two weeks. Work with your doctor to cut the dose in half and inject weekly.

I think what you meant to day above is that not much sperm would be produced. Since hCG is an LH analog, it's whole purpose is to stimulate the testes to produce testosterone. And it does. Let's be careful. We don't want people to get the wrong info.

[OingoBoingo]

I think what you meant to day above is that not much sperm would be produced. Since hCG is an LH analog, it's whole purpose is to stimulate the testes to produce testosterone. And it does. Let's be careful. We don't want people to get the wrong info.

According to Dr. Crisler, at 700IU per week "the amount of Testosterone produced is minute."

[2Sox]

According to Dr. Crisler, at 700IU per week "the amount of Testosterone produced is minute."

There you go. I suppose we can discuss the minutiae of the word "minute" but I'm glad that you agree with the physiological fact that hCG produces testosterone - (and not a little aromatase activity). And anecdotally, many married people on this forum are exceedingly happy about this "minute" amount of testicular activity which enabled them to get pregnant, have their balls look normal, and have great orgasms again - along with other benefits of well being. I'll bet this has a lot to do with keeping Dr. Crisler in business.

By the way, I'm sure many of us would be curious to see the full source of your information.

[OingoBoingo]

There you go. I suppose we can discuss the minutiae of the word "minute" but I'm glad that you agree with the physiological fact that hCG produces testosterone - (and not a little aromatase activity). And anecdotally, many married people on this forum are exceedingly happy about this "minute" amount of testicular activity which enabled them to get pregnant, have their balls look normal, and have great orgasms again - along with other benefits of well being. I'll bet this has a lot to do with keeping Dr. Crisler in business.

By the way, I'm sure many of us would be curious to see the full source of your information.

The post above was written clearly and distinctly. No amount of twisting, backpedaling, and obfuscation will make you look any better. Quite honestly, a simple apology might have improved your perceived credibility and self dignity.

I realize from your posts, research is not your forte. From his very own forum to YouTube seminars and radio interviews, Dr. Chrisler has a wealth of information available on the Internet. I would be pleased to do the research for you, but as a high school teacher, it is unlikely you could afford me.

Perhaps instead of being spoonfed information you actually looked for yourself, some intelligence could be gained to compliment your status as “Knowledgeable Member.”

[2Sox]

OB,
Sometimes my posts have can have a bit of an edge to them and I guess that hit you the wrong way. I know because I can sometimes be thin skinned too. But if you want to fight, there is nothing to fight about. Not only are insults and personal attacks completely unnecessary but they won't change the facts - and I stand by my post.

There has been much discussion in the past about posts or statements that have not been accompanied by a source. Yes, every member here has to do his own homework but it's the responsibility of each poster to back up his statements with where he got his information. Not only is this courteous and sensible but it's the right thing to do. Otherwise it's just "bro science". Yes, I'm a retired high school teacher and I'm proud of the thirty years I spent in the classroom. And one of the things I would repeat to my students time and time again is this, "Don't believe a word I say until you find out if it's true for yourself." Each poster here can make that job easier by including a source with their posts.

Now, if you find it necessary to continue a personal conversation, feel free to PM me.

[Simon1972]

Guys, you are both well respected and I'm sure a lot of members appreciate both your inputs. Time for an olive branch, I'm sure a lot of what was said by both of you was misread tone. Love both your work.

[ruffcute]

I was reading the thread wondering what to put down for the last day. Guys lets just crack a few beers and forget this shit. Both of you have some excellent knowledge and both deserve a round on me.

I will ask my new endo about the hcg and if it's needed for now, my wife wants to have a baby pretty soon so might get started on that right away.

I have never taken test cypionate before so how is it, when I took Sustanon 250 it was pretty thick and left a knot in my thigh for atleast a week if not two. How's the cypionate. I usually got the sus with the green gauge (sorry no idea what real gauge) needle as it was too thick for the regular one. Will this be the same for the cyp

[Simon1972]

sustanon has prop- and prop stings, cyp should be easier on the muscle , but if you can go subq thats the way to go, less damage to your body (scarring) - slow release and less conversion to estrogen.

pin twice a week, you will get a better result with insulin needles in the fat.

id stick with sustanon over cyp

[2Sox]

Simon, Ruff,
Thanks for your posts. Minor disagreements like this happen on forums all the time. No cause for concern. Sensible people learn, move on and forget about them. I already have.

[Beethoven]

Guys, you are both well respected and I'm sure a lot of members appreciate both your inputs. Time for an olive branch, I'm sure a lot of what was said by both of you was misread tone. Love both your work.

Agreed X2. I value both of your opinions and contributions .

[ruffcute]

sustanon has prop- and prop stings, cyp should be easier on the muscle , but if you can go subq thats the way to go, less damage to your body (scarring) - slow release and less conversion to estrogen.

pin twice a week, you will get a better result with insulin needles in the fat.

id stick with sustanon over cyp

Subq for testosterone, wow I had to google that just to be sure. Wow, when did that start. Sounds like a ideal situation to get past the knots in the muscles.

Twice a week in a situation like that would be a breeze if I learn how to do it.

Don't think docs here will provide Sustanon for me to use. I don't mind trying the cyp.

[2Sox]

Subq for testosterone, wow I had to google that just to be sure. Wow, when did that start. Sounds like a ideal situation to get past the knots in the muscles.

Yep. Lots of guys here do it. Absolutely painless with an insulin syringe. Gives the freedom to inject more frequently. Give it a try.

[ruffcute]

Yep. Lots of guys here do it. Absolutely painless with an insulin syringe. Gives the freedom to inject more frequently. Give it a try.

What needle is used to inject an insulin one? Just wondering how thick the cyp would be to inject with something like that.

[2Sox]

What needle is used to inject an insulin one? Just wondering how thick the cyp would be to inject with something like that.

I use a 29 gauge, 1/2 inch. It's not at all that difficult to draw out especially if you're injecting smaller, more frequent dosing.

[kelkel]

Subq for testosterone, wow I had to google that just to be sure. Wow, when did that start. Sounds like a ideal situation to get past the knots in the muscles.

Twice a week in a situation like that would be a breeze if I learn how to do it.

Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report. - PubMed - NCBI

[ruffcute]

Thank you for the study. Reassuring and helpful.

How is hCG usually given, would that be an injection too?

Me and the wife have been looking at this and she realizes I need treatment asap but also wants to have another baby, so hCG is going to be a must for me.

[OingoBoingo]

HCG is injected.

I load mine in the same syringe with the Testosterone so I only have to do one shot.

[ruffcute]

hey guys, I wanted to give you an update.

I found a HRT doctor in my city and went to him a month ago, he set me up with some supplements to take to increase my Testosterone naturally while he did some blood work and checked out my liver functions and other hormone levels.

I saw him again recently and told him that me and my wife had changed plans and we wanted to wait a little bit more before having another baby so that I wanted to be on Testosterone as soon as possible. He gave me a script for 0.5ml per week. I thought that was on the low side but not sure. What do you guys think?

I have also picked up everything to inject and wanted to ask if subq was still good to do. I haven't done that before and wanted to ask as Im nervous and don't want to do something quickly and do something stupid. I have seen how to do it, I just want to check that nothing has changed, and this still is a safe route to inject.

I asked the doctor about that and he didn't seem to like the idea of subq as he said it would cause more of the test to change to estrogen.

[ruffcute]

My dose is 0.5ml of the bottle 100mg/ml

[Simon1972]

My dose is 0.5ml of the bottle 100mg/ml

thats 50mg a week.
its too low...as an example im on 150mg a week of TEST E. I would not take it at all at that dose- it will cause more harm than good. the average man produces 7-10mg a day naturaly which equates to 49mg at the low side- im assuming its test e or test c. either way at around 70% actual testosterone for either compund you will end up with 35mg actual test per week in your body.

i would go to an anti aging dr- do it right.

best bet is to find a local compounding pharmacy and ask the pharmacist if they can reccomend a dr that prescribes testosterone . they will put you onto one.

you need as a minimum 100mg a week or in your case 0.5ml 2 times a week. (Tuesday night and saturday morning)

SUBq is good- there is no increase in conversion- google dr crisler for research. i do subq 75mg twice a week- no issues no conversion that i have noticed.

[ruffcute]

Shit, that was what I suspected. Do you think I should up my dose slightly or keep it low to show him my results. I have to see him in 4 weeks and will be doing bloods again just before that so in about 3.5 weeks.

This guy is from an anti aging clinic. He's the cautious type, which wasn't so bad before. Do you think I should just take the dose and show him the numbers in a few weeks?