PCT Nolva too late? Help please

[seoulcitydan]

Hi,

I just got off a pretty aggressive if not ignorant first cycle for my age and ran an equally dumb PCT. My cycle looked like this.

1-6 Dbol
1-10 Deca 500 per week
1-12 Sus 500 per week

after last injection I waited 14 days and did this Hcg and Nolva only PCT:

starting week 14 I ran Hcg 1500/1000/1000 EOD for 3 weeks
also starting same time at week 14, with the Hcg I ran Nolva 20mg for 6 weeks

I am just past 7 days of my last Nolva dose, total of 6 weeks.

I gained 30 lbs and lost 10 and holding steady with the remaining 20lbs.

I had my bloods done just a few days ago, got the results and all my levels are good and my testosterone level is good but seemingly low.
Hoping I didn't do any permanent damage to myself or I may still be able to treat myself.
Keep in mind, I am in an Asian country where the doctors here are not that knowledgeable to Steroid use and treatment. It's totally illegal here.

I'm 48 years old.

I know it was ignorant of me to run this without more research, but what's done is done and I'm just trying to seek any information, advice or help.

I'm 1 week past my last Nolva dosage.

My question is, is there anything I can do now to further my PCT recovery or is it too late?
Or am I okay and just being overly cautious?

I still have on hand Hcg, Nolva, Clomid,(which I should have taken with the Nolva I think) Also have Arimidex and Aromasin.

So any advice??

[numbere]

Welcome to the forum! If you decide to cycle again in the future you should post you cycle in the Q&A forum and members will give it an evaluation.

Hcg should be used on cycle to preserve leydig cell functionality. PCT should consist of both nolva and clomid.

You used some harsh compounds and need to be patient because resetting the HPTA can take close to a year for some individuals. You should continue to exercise on a regular basis and eat a diet rich in healthy fats.

Do you have pre cycle blood work with which you can compare your latest results?

[seoulcitydan]

Hello and thank you for warm welcome and the swift reply.

I do not have pre cycle blood works and I realize it was dumb of me.

Yes, I've read alot about Hcg and IF I ever do another cycle, I will definitely do much more research and get advice.
I will most likely not do any for quite some time until I am certain I have recovered.

Yes, I know now in hindsight that I should have taken the Nolva and Clomid together.
I also now know that at my age, weight and muscle mass, I should not be doing any AAS until I make some natural gains.
I do continue to work out, albeit not as much or intense as when I was on cycle and my diet is pretty good. Can you give me some examples of healthy fats?

Am I past the time window to continue my PCT with more Nolva and or Clomid or anything else? It's been 8 days since I stopped the Nolva. Should I resume the Nolva and or Clomid?

Thank you

[numbere]

One week after PCT is too soon to know if your HPTA was fully reset. I think you should wait another 5-7 weeks and have another test that also includes LH and FSH. Waiting for a longer period of time gives a much better picture of what is happening on a homeostatic basis. If hormone levels are out of range at that time then another SERM therapy should be considered.

Choosing Healthy Fats

[mike198]

Hi, I just got off a pretty aggressive if not ignorant first cycle for my age and ran an equally dumb PCT. My cycle looked like this. 1-6 Dbol 1-10 Deca 500 per week 1-12 Sus 500 per week after last injection I waited 14 days and did this Hcg and Nolva only PCT: starting week 14 I ran Hcg 1500/1000/1000 EOD for 3 weeks also starting same time at week 14, with the Hcg I ran Nolva 20mg for 6 weeks I am just past 7 days of my last Nolva dose, total of 6 weeks. I gained 30 lbs and lost 10 and holding steady with the remaining 20lbs. I had my bloods done just a few days ago, got the results and all my levels are good and my testosterone level is good but seemingly low. Hoping I didn't do any permanent damage to myself or I may still be able to treat myself. Keep in mind, I am in an Asian country where the doctors here are not that knowledgeable to Steroid use and treatment. It's totally illegal here. I'm 48 years old. I know it was ignorant of me to run this without more research, but what's done is done and I'm just trying to seek any information, advice or help. I'm 1 week past my last Nolva dosage. My question is, is there anything I can do now to further my PCT recovery or is it too late? Or am I okay and just being overly cautious? I still have on hand Hcg, Nolva, Clomid,(which I should have taken with the Nolva I think) Also have Arimidex and Aromasin. So any advice??

You should have stuck with a low to moderate dose of test for first cycle. But the compounds you ran are pretty standard. Cheer up, man! It sounds like you had a great cycle. And at 48 you did your first ever. That's great. I thought I was late to the game at 34. Add vitamin d3 and forskoliin 95% to your natural supps while you're off

[seoulcitydan]

Hi,

Okay, I will do another blood test in 5 weeks, that will be 6 weeks in total post PCT.

Is it the understanding that I may still do a SERM therapy at that time with some degree of success? It's not too "late in the game" so to speak?

I had a LH 2.14, FSH 3.29,TSH 0.98, estradiol 23.14 and testosterone 2.69.
That was in week 5 of my 6 week PCT.

Meantime, I will just keep working out and eating right.

Thank you so much for your time and concern.

P.S. thank you for the link...yes I already have plenty of those food incorporated in my current diet.

[seoulcitydan]

Hey, thanks, Yes I did have a great experience so far. Though at my age and weight, I probably should have developed more muscle mass and weight naturally before using AAS. I thought the reason I was using was to gain weight and muscle mass, due to a lot of work stress, past stomach illness (acute ulcer) and just ignorant eating habits, I lost a ton of weight and was literally skin and bones, I was quite skinny and wanted a faster way to get bigger. Seems I should have made the change naturally first, but whats done is done and I'm just trying to make sure I didn't do too much damage to myself and hold on to the weight and muscle I did gain. I will say that besides the chemically induced gains, just the use and knowing the presence gave tremendous mental drive to get up every morning and work out, eat right and overall make a life changing decision to stay healthy. Watching the metamorphosis of my body go from skin and bones to mass and muscle really gave me discipline and determination, it was what I also gained from my experience.

Thank you for your kind words and positive feedback.

[seoulcitydan]

Hi,

So I got my blood test this week. It would put me at just past 6 weeks post PCT. Compared to my last blood test I did on week 5, there seems to be some improvement and some other concerns, I think.

Here's the results

Estradiol E2 43.75 pg/mL
FSH (ECLIA) 3.34 mIU/mL
LH (ECLIA) 4.91 mIU/mL

Testosterone (ECLIA) 4.64 ng/mL

Testosterone, Free 7.08 pg/mL

Cortisol 27.24 ug/dL

My Estradiol and Cortisone levels are super high. Any ideas why?
Test levels seem to still be a bit low you think?

Any and all advice, directions and opinions would we highly appreciated.

Thanks

[Back In Black]

You need to post the ranges for each value please.

[seoulcitydan]

Ah yes of course, sorry.
I am 48 years old, turning 49 in a few months
now at 73 kilos
5'9"
Body fat 11%
Like I said, my last bloods was past 6 weeks ago and my Testosterone levels have almost doubled, unfortunately, so have my estradiol levels.
I did not get a Cortisol test the last time so I have no baseline for that.

Here are results with the range levels.

Estradiol E2 43.75 (7.63 - 42.60 pg/mL)
FSH (ECLIA) 3.34 (1.5 - 12.40 mIU/mL)
LH (ECLIA) 4.91 (1.70 - 8.60 mIU/mL)

Testosterone (ECLIA) 4.64 (18-49y: 2.49 - 8.36) (50y: 1.93 - 7.40) ng/mL

Testosterone, Free 7.08 ( 20y: 0.20 - 42.50) (20-39y: 8.9 - 42.50) (40-59y: 6.60 - 30.00) pg/mL

Cortisol 27.24 (morning: 6.20 - 19.40) (evening: 2.30 - 11.90) ug/dL

My Estradiol and Cortisone levels are super high. Any ideas why?
Testosterone levels seem to still be a bit low you think?
Do I need to go on an AI to get my estradiol levels down?
What do I do about my Cortisol level? It seems just way too high.

Any and all advice, directions and opinions would we highly appreciated.

[Player1]

Could it be estrogen rebound after the PCT? It's something I've read about because PCT typically tanks your E levels, and the rebound can send them up quite a bit.

I'm not keen enough on the numbers to say, but more advanced members could chime in on that.

[numbere]

Ah yes of course, sorry.
I am 48 years old, turning 49 in a few months
now at 73 kilos
5'9"
Body fat 11%
Like I said, my last bloods was past 6 weeks ago and my Testosterone levels have almost doubled, unfortunately, so have my estradiol levels.
I did not get a Cortisol test the last time so I have no baseline for that.

Here are results with the range levels.

Estradiol E2 43.75 (7.63 - 42.60 pg/mL)
FSH (ECLIA) 3.34 (1.5 - 12.40 mIU/mL)
LH (ECLIA) 4.91 (1.70 - 8.60 mIU/mL)

Testosterone (ECLIA) 4.64 (18-49y: 2.49 - 8.36) (50y: 1.93 - 7.40) ng/mL

Testosterone, Free 7.08 ( 20y: 0.20 - 42.50) (20-39y: 8.9 - 42.50) (40-59y: 6.60 - 30.00) pg/mL

Cortisol 27.24 (morning: 6.20 - 19.40) (evening: 2.30 - 11.90) ug/dL

My Estradiol and Cortisone levels are super high. Any ideas why?
Testosterone levels seem to still be a bit low you think?
Do I need to go on an AI to get my estradiol levels down?
What do I do about my Cortisol level? It seems just way too high.

Any and all advice, directions and opinions would we highly appreciated.

Your e2 isn't really that high. Especially if you had a standard e2 assay because men will often get results 10-20 points higher than actual.

Your free test is a bit low. You may require more time for recovery. You did cycle deca afteral.

High cortisol can result from many situations. Anxiety and raises my cortisol through the roof if not handled correctly.

I think you should give it a few more weeks and then retest. If your test is still low then you should run a nolva clomid PCT.

[seoulcitydan]

Okay, Thank you.
I'll do that and just keep up my normal current diet and work out routine?

[numbere]

I'm not sure what you mean by "normal current diet and work out routine."

During PCT it is good practice to consume more calories than when on cycle and keep workouts to around 45 minutes.

While your body is reestablishing hormone production your goal is to lose as little weight as possible. Eating more and burning less calories minimizes the amount of lean tissue that will be lost during PCT.

Tips on keeping gains for the moderate user

[seoulcitydan]

Ah, yes, of course. Though I'm not eating as much as I was on cycle, I am still on a pretty strict diet and consume up to 4,000 cal a day. Trying very hard to not only keep my gains, but to gain naturally and so far I've been successful.
My training has of course tapered down and yes, I only work out 45-60 minutes a day, that would include stretching and warm up time, so total actual lift time is about 30-40 minutes, 3-4 days a week with plenty of rest in between days.
When I was on cycle, I went at it pretty hard and realize that at my age, my joints and connective tissue will not recover as fast and I'm not going to push myself too hard and risk an injury or permanent damage. It took a long time for my shoulders to feel normal again after gaining and pushing and pumping so hard during my last cycle..Thank you for the link, I've read it and will heed the words.
Thanks for your advice. I'll be taking another blood next week.