Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: When quoting studies...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,870

    When quoting studies...

    Feel free to add to this.

    We live in the age of Internet educated people who actively tote around Google diplomas, regurgitating everything they read on Google scholar and trusting the media blindly. No doubt the Internet is full of near limitless knowledge, but knowing what to trust and what isn't has become increasingly difficult. Structured and unimaginative college curricula sure aren't helping.

    Too often have I seen people use a study to back their claims and justify their false point of view. There are published studies about pigs riding on the hood of a car, how elevator music supposedly boosts immune system response, and one even stating that interaction with women makes men stupid. No doubt they all used scientific jargon to make the layman further trust the crap they spouted.

    So here are a few things to look for before quoting scientific research in your next online debate.

    1. Make sure you actually have the research to reference. No one should believe you just because you said you read the study. I prefer to read it myself before trusting you. No offense personally.

    2. Make sure it is relevant. A study from 1955 may not be relevant in certain fields today. While some studies are nearly timeless, they are few and far between.

    3. Make sure the study actually focuses on the main topic of your argument. Research that briefly mentions a topic usually neglects to explain it and understand it fully.

    4. Ensure the article is published from a reliable peer-reviewed article. Even then, proceed with caution.

    5. The research has to be verifiable. This means the author is preferably an expert in his field of study. This means a fair amount of education and experience.

    6. Avoid bias as much as humanly possible. We're all biased, even publishers have publication bias whereas printing positive results is more preferred over negative findings in research. If you're reading a paper written by an environmentalist employed by Shell Gas stating climate change is a fallacy then you should approach with caution.

    7. I immediately dismiss any study that presents anecdotal evidence. It's inaccurate and unreliable and more subject to error.

    8. Don't read the abstract and think you're an expert. The abstract isn't enough to scrutinize a study in the first place and is usually written more to attract interest.

    9. Correlation does not equal causation. Just because serial killers all breathe oxygen does not mean oxygen causes murders.

    10. Ignore out of context data. This means data that doesn't have a reliable control to measure it against. One such example would be the amount of murders in New York City in 1900 compared to 2000. Of course the number is going to be higher, the population grew significantly. Some studies play on this.

    11. On the topic of data, the best studies, although not always necessary, are double-blind, random, and have a large N-value (sample size). The larger the sample the more accurate. Studying 5 middle aged males isn't as accurate as 500. And make sure the data is able to be replicated with a similar, accurate statistical significance, preferably P<.05. Meaning 95% of the time the results will be the same.

    12. A lot of studies reference past studies. Ensure those prior studies are valid as well.

    13. Another one I'll throw out there sometimes is valid and sometimes just doesn't work. Humans share a lot of characteristics with lab rats and monkeys. That doesn't mean every study works on them and us alike.

    14. Question the potential bias of the subjects as well. Are placebo and nocebo effects likely? Did people drop out? Why?

    15. Then ask yourself, is the proposed conclusion or solution to your argument even feasible?

    16. If the researcher admits further analysis on the topic is needed then he is essentially say he could probably be very wrong and needs to research more before it's more definitive.

    17. Lastly, can the experiment be replicated? It should be.

    If I forgot anything let me know. Hopefully next time I see a Google scholar link it'll be to more than just the abstract.

  2. #2
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    29,916
    Nicely written RD.
    With the added bonus of a touch of sarcasm.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Repost
    Posts
    7,433

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    6,946
    What I would add here is this. Just because we all have access to all this information do not mean we all understand it! I have to constantly trouble my wife for things I have no ****ing clue about in these studies. Reading one of these studies and fully understanding it can take me, easily over a week having to look up so many unknown words. I see people quoting abstracts all the time and it drives me insane as that is such a condensed part that is also written in a way as to attract readers (Readers = reviewers) during the review process.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,870
    Quote Originally Posted by tarmyg
    What I would add here is this. Just because we all have access to all this information do not mean we all understand it! I have to constantly trouble my wife for things I have no ****ing clue about in these studies. Reading one of these studies and fully understanding it can take me, easily over a week having to look up so many unknown words. I see people quoting abstracts all the time and it drives me insane as that is such a condensed part that is also written in a way as to attract readers (Readers = reviewers) during the review process.

    I know exactly what you mean. I tried reading a physics paper written about bosons where the physicist's audience was his peers. After googling five words in paragraph one I said to hell with it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,870
    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel
    Nicely written RD. With the added bonus of a touch of sarcasm.
    Thanks, I've been trying to tone down my aggressive behaviors.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    somewhere near London
    Posts
    1,399
    Yes, I'm another fan of reading the whole study because abstracts are marketing.

    Someone once sent me an abstract to prove her point that methylmercury consumption in fish was more detrimental than injected ethylmercury. And the abstract said ethylmercury cleared the blood faster than methylmercury. But when I read the study, it turned out that yes, the ethylmercury cleared the blood faster, but what happened was that it was more rapidly shuttled to the brain, where it was stored as elemental mercury (which is not known to cross the blood-brain barrier, meaning it was likely there forever, this neurotoxin), whereas the methylmercury was mostly excreted.

    Never rely on an abstract!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,870
    I'm guessing it was a poor lost anti-vaxxer?

  9. #9
    jimmyinkedup's Avatar
    jimmyinkedup is offline Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Scamming my brothers
    Posts
    11,285
    Meh I like to make shit up and act like its true. If you act confident enough 90% of the time people buy it.
    LOL

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,870
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup
    Meh I like to make shit up and act like its true. If you act confident enough 90% of the time people buy it. LOL
    This is very true. Just carry a manila folder around and act like you belong.

  11. #11
    jimmyinkedup's Avatar
    jimmyinkedup is offline Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Scamming my brothers
    Posts
    11,285
    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDanger830 View Post
    This is very true. Just carry a manila folder around and act like you belong.
    Yeah and use words like clinically and reportedly even statistically will work. This is a good one, "according to my readings and research....."
    LOL

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,870
    This makes me think of the movie catch me if you can, "I concur."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    5,747
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post

    Yeah and use words like clinically and reportedly even statistically will work. This is a good one, "according to my readings and research....."
    LOL
    Statics show that you're likely to be right

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,870
    People still need to read this it seems

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    30,269
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggage_54 View Post
    Do you have some research that shows the statement above is true and said by Abraham Lincoln????

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    I'm right behind you..
    Posts
    662
    Quote Originally Posted by tarmyg View Post
    What I would add here is this. Just because we all have access to all this information do not mean we all understand it! I have to constantly trouble my wife for things I have no ****ing clue about in these studies. Reading one of these studies and fully understanding it can take me, easily over a week having to look up so many unknown words. I see people quoting abstracts all the time and it drives me insane as that is such a condensed part that is also written in a way as to attract readers (Readers = reviewers) during the review process.
    It's exhausting. You also, have to thoroughly read any other studies that your paper cites and if the the statement you're investigating is not the topic of the paper being cited, you have to disregard it as evidence as well as anything predicated on the statement; it's evidence by hearsay, like in court.

    About half of my friends are anti-GMO folks. I am not, and we tend to argue. I don't care that they're anti-GMO; I just care that they, with the best intentions, frequently cite nonsense. They'll counter with "Dude, I've read all of the research.." Have you, now? Really?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,870
    You're a more patient person than I. I would defined over an anti-GMO belief. It just annoys me too much.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    I'm right behind you..
    Posts
    662
    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDanger830 View Post
    You're a more patient person than I. I would defined over an anti-GMO belief. It just annoys me too much.
    That's the first time I've been called patient. Usually, I feel like the doctor in this pic.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	evidence based nurturing.jpg 
Views:	102 
Size:	65.5 KB 
ID:	161255

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDanger830 View Post
    Feel free to add to this.

    We live in the age of Internet educated people who actively tote around Google diplomas, regurgitating everything they read on Google scholar and trusting the media blindly. No doubt the Internet is full of near limitless knowledge, but knowing what to trust and what isn't has become increasingly difficult. Structured and unimaginative college curricula sure aren't helping.

    Too often have I seen people use a study to back their claims and justify their false point of view. There are published studies about pigs riding on the hood of a car, how elevator music supposedly boosts immune system response, and one even stating that interaction with women makes men stupid. No doubt they all used scientific jargon to make the layman further trust the crap they spouted.

    So here are a few things to look for before quoting scientific research in your next online debate.

    1. Make sure you actually have the research to reference. No one should believe you just because you said you read the study. I prefer to read it myself before trusting you. No offense personally.

    2. Make sure it is relevant. A study from 1955 may not be relevant in certain fields today. While some studies are nearly timeless, they are few and far between.

    3. Make sure the study actually focuses on the main topic of your argument. Research that briefly mentions a topic usually neglects to explain it and understand it fully.

    4. Ensure the article is published from a reliable peer-reviewed article. Even then, proceed with caution.

    5. The research has to be verifiable. This means the author is preferably an expert in his field of study. This means a fair amount of education and experience.

    6. Avoid bias as much as humanly possible. We're all biased, even publishers have publication bias whereas printing positive results is more preferred over negative findings in research. If you're reading a paper written by an environmentalist employed by Shell Gas stating climate change is a fallacy then you should approach with caution.

    7. I immediately dismiss any study that presents anecdotal evidence. It's inaccurate and unreliable and more subject to error.

    8. Don't read the abstract and think you're an expert. The abstract isn't enough to scrutinize a study in the first place and is usually written more to attract interest.

    9. Correlation does not equal causation. Just because serial killers all breathe oxygen does not mean oxygen causes murders.

    10. Ignore out of context data. This means data that doesn't have a reliable control to measure it against. One such example would be the amount of murders in New York City in 1900 compared to 2000. Of course the number is going to be higher, the population grew significantly. Some studies play on this.

    11. On the topic of data, the best studies, although not always necessary, are double-blind, random, and have a large N-value (sample size). The larger the sample the more accurate. Studying 5 middle aged males isn't as accurate as 500. And make sure the data is able to be replicated with a similar, accurate statistical significance, preferably P<.05. Meaning 95% of the time the results will be the same.

    12. A lot of studies reference past studies. Ensure those prior studies are valid as well.

    13. Another one I'll throw out there sometimes is valid and sometimes just doesn't work. Humans share a lot of characteristics with lab rats and monkeys. That doesn't mean every study works on them and us alike.

    14. Question the potential bias of the subjects as well. Are placebo and nocebo effects likely? Did people drop out? Why?

    15. Then ask yourself, is the proposed conclusion or solution to your argument even feasible?

    16. If the researcher admits further analysis on the topic is needed then he is essentially say he could probably be very wrong and needs to research more before it's more definitive.

    17. Lastly, can the experiment be replicated? It should be.

    If I forgot anything let me know. Hopefully next time I see a Google scholar link it'll be to more than just the abstract.
    The other thing to look for is also statistical significance because the study might prove something to be effective but not significance then the hypothesis was proven null; 5% p value is what you need

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by yettibecsuse View Post

    The other thing to look for is also statistical significance because the study might prove something to be effective but not significance then the hypothesis was proven null; 5% p value is what you need
    significant^

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,870
    I have that in there homies, number 11. I meant de-friend in the other post.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •