too many sets?

[tempest818]

I hit all my sets with the heaviest weight i can do for a certain amount of reps and pyramid it up to a 6 to 8 rep max for maybe 2 sets...so total of maybe 4 sets per exercise. i then move on to maybe another 4 exercises. i hit each muscle for at least 16 sets and each set consists of the max weight i can preform for maybe 15, 12, 8 and 6 reps (not always like this but its an example)

i continue until the muscle is completely exhausted. i train each muscle twice a week...if i really feel like i am lagging in an area i hit that muscle sometimes 3 times a week.

I am not on gear. being at my age and the goals i have, you guys talked me out of it lol. is this too much? its been my routine for the past 2-3 months. good gains so far but i feel that the increase in my numbers has come from better optimization of the movement and not an increase in say muscle mass because my numbers wrre shit low before. i am a novice lifter with 245 bench, 315 squat and 365 DL 1rm. am i doing something here that might hinder my gains?

my diet is in a serious deficit now, at maybe 1600 cals...150g protein 50 g fat and rest carbs.

22 at 200 lbs. thx!

[Mr.BB]

You must rest a lot during sets, if like you say do 16 sets to failure for each muscle.

In my working sets going to failure doesnt allow me to make any more sets with increasing weight... Can only do 3-4 working sets to failure.

Maybe my muscles are weak

[solit1ea]

What I see when I read this: Over training. Maybe you don't feel it or think so now, but give it a few more weeks. Training the same bodypart, for failure, 2-3 times a week is asking for catabolism (especially at said caloric deficit). Remember, rest is just as important than training! You need to give your body time to recover if you want to grow, prevent catabolism, prevent injury, etc.

Just my .02 cents though. I'd maybe do 1-2 warm up sets and have the last set (3rd) as a muscle failure (drop sets, negatives, rest/pause, etc).

[marcus300]

Sounds like a case of over training to me,
condense your workouts and put more into the working sets,

[tempest818]

well i do maybe one warmup, then a light weight, then i do maybe 3 more sets ramping up weight then the last 2 sets of those 3 are my heaviest for the same reps to failure, the last one maybe one or two less reps.

let me ask u guys this....how will the muscle grow or strengthen if im not pushing till failure every exercise? if i can do say 185 bench 10 times at most, why would i do it 8 times instead for more sets,,,say 3 working sets instead of 2 sets of 10? just as an example..

if im strong enough to do it 10 times , what reason does my body have to grow if im not tearing my ass on every working set? im nit being a smartass about it btw, i genuinely want to know. thanks for your replies btw. and i tend to rest a minute between sets.

i incorporate forced reps with my spotter and forced negatives.

[Mitch535]

If you want to grow, stop lifting weight that is light enough for you to lift 10 times, and drop the light set. There's no reason to warm up and then do a light set. Warm up, put a weight on that is heavy enough for you to hit failure around at 6-8 reps, drop some weight to get another 6-8 reps, and drop once again to get a last 6-8 reps. That's 4 sets, 1 warm up and 3 working sets. If you aren't spent on that lift after what I just offered you, you aren't using enough weight or your form is bad and you're compensating.

[tempest818]

ill try that out today Mitch. i usually do the opposite but i see that idea as being better. also, i wanted to ask....usually on a cut, i progress with my weights over time and then come to a complete halt. is this because im on a cut and im not eating enough? can i still expect to see growth in strength? my 3 main lifts have been stuck for a while now and as soon as i drop another 15 lbs im looking to start something like Sheiko or ICF and eat around maintenance or maybe a little over. im not too upset because my goal is to drop fat and ppl tell me that they usually maintain strength on a cut

[Mitch535]

You can maintain strength on a cut. You just need to beware how many calories you are in a deficit during a cut. I would suggest no more than 500 calories in a deficit if you are looking to keep your strength but drop the fat. 500 calories deficit per day will lose around a pound a week. Just make sure you are eating the right foods in the right proportions at the right time.

If your main 3 lifts have been stuck for a while now, try what I suggested. Sounds like you just hit a plateau and need to change it up to break through.

[tempest818]

You can maintain strength on a cut. You just need to beware how many calories you are in a deficit during a cut. I would suggest no more than 500 calories in a deficit if you are looking to keep your strength but drop the fat. 500 calories deficit per day will lose around a pound a week. Just make sure you are eating the right foods in the right proportions at the right time.

If your main 3 lifts have been stuck for a while now, try what I suggested. Sounds like you just hit a plateau and need to change it up to break through.

At this point, Mitch, the only reason I'm keeping my high volume workout is the amount of time I get to spend in the gym. I just need this last 10 or so pounds to come off. Once I decide to start a more suitable program, I'm just worried that these power routines will have me going to the gym only 3 times a week which is a hell no for me (we've talked about it before too, I just have this problem..i enjoy my time in the gym)...

Instead of a powerlifting routine , can I just stick to my regular bro split ?? I can incorporate even more compound lifts and cut the lifting from 7 days to 5 days...Hit one muscle group a day...

As for my diet, I feel as though I have trashed my metabolism completely... I'm cutting at 1500-1600 calories a day and my weight loss is slower than usual...my BMR alone is around 1800 cals...on top of the exercise im doing, I feel as though I have slowed myself down...I fear that throwing my calories up to the 2500s would seriously screw me over so I am going to slowly and deliberately add calories until I can find a suitable level or until my body adjusts again.

[Mitch535]

You shouldn't be lifting 7 days a week anyway. Seriously. Cut it down to one body part a day, lift heavy, lose fat, and grow.
Yes, you have thrown your metabolism for a loop. You won't screw yourself over by going back to a reasonable amount of calories. If anything it's going to help you. That may be your problem anyway, you aren't eating even enough food to sustain your BMR, so your body is digesting itself. Fat is the HARDEST thing for your body to break down. It will always break down carbs first. It will then break protein down if it isn't being used for something, like repairing muscle. It breaks fat down last. You are practically digesting lean mass by being on such a low calorie diet. The body is a miraculous machine, it will adjust. It sounds like you are trying to take too big a bite, slow down a bit. 5 days a week lifting is more than enough. You need to give your body time to rest. Adjust your calorie intake to a 500 calorie deficit, eat at regular intervals, and your metabolism will naturalize. You aren't giving yourself enough food or rest.

[kelkel]

Take some time and read Marcus's Diary in the Lounge from start to finish. It will take you a while but there's ton's of great information within.

[Khazima]

Sounds fine, maybe a little too much intensity to be running the same style for weeks on end. Consider making your first workout heavier and second one lighter to give your CNS time to recover. 16 sets per workout isn't much, every single set to failure is. Maybe 4 of those at the end of each exercise should be really intense but the first few should be working sets just getting the volume in towards an RPE 8 or 9 (1 or 2 reps left).

Plenty of top bodybuilders and strength athletes have always been doing 20+ sets per workout. Hell I watched a video of Jay Cutler do 37 sets for legs the other day. You just need to make sure you can recover enough for the next workout and take deload weeks every so often so you don't overreach too far (you're not going to overtrain on 20 sets a day, lmao)

[jackfrost88]

If your body can handle it I don't see anything wrong. You said you are new so it could definitely lead to overtraining. It's a pretty hard program by the sounds of it.

To put it into perspective, I am training for strength and have a high rep period for this month and am doing 5-6 exercises for 8 or more reps, for 5-6 sets each exercise. Takes me about an hour and a half. Need to keep your body guessing to grow, I say go for it!

[jaysath]

If you're not eating enough calories and your'e not chemically enhance then you should not be training like jay cutler in his prime. John meadows compared it to digging a ditch when you train to hard and dig more than you can fill back up let alone grow. That being said it's relatively hard to overtrain bit if you do you'll feel it. Everyone is different so listen to your body and honestly you'll be more intuitive about his much you should train the more experience you have

[tempest818]

thank you for the replies guys. i want to cut my workouts to 5 days a week, and 2 days cardio but i think ill still try to hit each muacle twice, or atleast my lagging ones...im reading marcus's diary and its a goldmine. so far what ive taken from it is that i need to increase the intensity, and that marcus eats in 2 snacks what i eat the whole day. so im going to focus on eating more too, maybe add another 200 calories into my diet and see what happens.

as far as overtraining, i dont feel weaknesses in my lifts, and if i feel too fatigued or feel like i am lifting 100bs less on a main lift and seem to be burned out, i go home rest and try again a few days later where it always gets better. this has happened maybe twice. i think my body is used to the crazy volume so far...im gonna hit shoulders or arms today, havent decided. will try to hit more working sets for 6-8 reps and do less lighter sets leading up to it and see if it ups the intensity.

today i ate: 3 eggs, 1/2 cup oats with 1 cup milk all for breakfast
for lunch i had a quest bar and a can of tuna
for dinner i will have maybe half a yam and a pound of chicken breast. if i get hungry again ill have a fruit.

[jaysath]

Nice I would up the protein

[Khazima]

You should probably double your food intake (other than the pound of chicken)

Are you trying to gain weight?

[marcus300]

thank you for the replies guys. i want to cut my workouts to 5 days a week, and 2 days cardio but i think ill still try to hit each muacle twice, or atleast my lagging ones...im reading marcus's diary and its a goldmine. so far what ive taken from it is that i need to increase the intensity, and that marcus eats in 2 snacks what i eat the whole day. so im going to focus on eating more too, maybe add another 200 calories into my diet and see what happens.

as far as overtraining, i dont feel weaknesses in my lifts, and if i feel too fatigued or feel like i am lifting 100bs less on a main lift and seem to be burned out, i go home rest and try again a few days later where it always gets better. this has happened maybe twice. i think my body is used to the crazy volume so far...im gonna hit shoulders or arms today, havent decided. will try to hit more working sets for 6-8 reps and do less lighter sets leading up to it and see if it ups the intensity.

today i ate: 3 eggs, 1/2 cup oats with 1 cup milk all for breakfast
for lunch i had a quest bar and a can of tuna
for dinner i will have maybe half a yam and a pound of chicken breast. if i get hungry again ill have a fruit.

You have serious problems with your food intake and also I would really look in my dungeon thread to see how to increae growth.

[tempest818]

i know. im desperately trying to cut down to 190 lbs....i swear aftrr that im eating what im eating now as meal 1 and 2 lol. 70 freaking pounds down man and i havent seen a drop in my lifts. marcus, after this weight loss, im afraid to gain weight again man...should i slowly add back the calories or just make a jump to say 2500 from 1500 and see how it goes with a very slow bulk? or should i try and maintain?

i am reading your log btw its great and im taking more of it into my workouts everyday. im hitting more working sets with less warmups like you guys told me to. i just wish i wasnt so afraid to eat more. i love food so when the time comes, ill have no problem pounding down pounds of chicken and eggs and rice lol.

[jaysath]

You should read up on nutrition. I would start with Chris aceto's "everything you need to know about fat loss". If you're cutting your calorie intake in a depredate attempt to lose weight then your just going to crash your metabolism and make bulking 1000x harder

[tempest818]

I swear I know the protocols for proper nutrition. On a cut I should be at 1g protein per lb of bodyweight, .4g of fat per lb, and the rest on carbs and leave it at 500 below maintenance. I know it, I just figure....if my lifts aren't going down, and I'm losing weight quicker, why not..yah know? I am slimming down too quickly though. I am at 196.8 this morning. Once I get to a steady 190 I'll bulk up slowly to 200 and see how that is.

[KBall32]

I would seriously look to go back to maintenance for a short while and let your body reset. Really TDEE- 500 is where you want to be loosing 1 lb a week to retain muscle, maybe another 500 in cardio. Especially if you plateau. But we all have different goals and yours is to loose that fat and you've done great and still progressing well, so keep it up. I did something similar started at 245 and dropped 20 lbs and then slowly added in the cals to add lean muscle with minimal fat loss, and I'm back to 238 but MUCH leaner.

[Buster Brown]

i know. im desperately trying to cut down to 190 lbs....i swear aftrr that im eating what im eating now as meal 1 and 2 lol. 70 freaking pounds down man and i havent seen a drop in my lifts. marcus, after this weight loss, im afraid to gain weight again man...should i slowly add back the calories or just make a jump to say 2500 from 1500 and see how it goes with a very slow bulk? or should i try and maintain? i am reading your log btw its great and im taking more of it into my workouts everyday. im hitting more working sets with less warmups like you guys told me to. i just wish i wasnt so afraid to eat more. i love food so when the time comes, ill have no problem pounding down pounds of chicken and eggs and rice lol.

The formula is a great tool but it is in fact a guideline and one shouldn't live and die by those numbers. I would crunch the numbers to see what they are and head into that direction slowly by adding in extra calories per week and tracking it so you know when a YOU are at maintenance. I feel that when I bulk and add in 500 additional clean calories that I put on bad weight so for me 250 to 300 surplus calories works better.....you need to find this out for yourself. Good luck

[Ashop]

I hit all my sets with the heaviest weight i can do for a certain amount of reps and pyramid it up to a 6 to 8 rep max for maybe 2 sets...so total of maybe 4 sets per exercise. i then move on to maybe another 4 exercises. i hit each muscle for at least 16 sets and each set consists of the max weight i can preform for maybe 15, 12, 8 and 6 reps (not always like this but its an example)

i continue until the muscle is completely exhausted. i train each muscle twice a week...if i really feel like i am lagging in an area i hit that muscle sometimes 3 times a week.

I am not on gear. being at my age and the goals i have, you guys talked me out of it lol. is this too much? its been my routine for the past 2-3 months. good gains so far but i feel that the increase in my numbers has come from better optimization of the movement and not an increase in say muscle mass because my numbers wrre shit low before. i am a novice lifter with 245 bench, 315 squat and 365 DL 1rm. am i doing something here that might hinder my gains?

my diet is in a serious deficit now, at maybe 1600 cals...150g protein 50 g fat and rest carbs.

22 at 200 lbs. thx!

It is a lot of work your doing but volume works for some really well.
Do you feel your making progress?? Gaining muscle?? Gaining strength??