Squat Depth (back squat)

[Splifton]

So I feel I have figured out squatting pretty well. I've watched quite a few videos on it and I feel pretty confident in my performance. The only thing I notice is I go way lower than the individuals I've observed on youtube. I don't feel any pain in my knees at all during the exercise, but I can comfortably touch my hamstrings to my calves at the bottom of the movement.

I maintain a neutral spine and my bar placement is on the lower region of my trapezius as I try to really bring in the posterior chain. I try to maintain an adequate amount of pelvic tilt to prevent rounding and if flattening occurs I drop the weight. I alternate with front squats every week as I feel I can more effectively target the workload to my quadriceps with that variation.

My only concern is there such a thing as going too low? Also, I've gotten mixed messages from watching videos about pausing at the lowest point of the movement. I know isometric contractions have their place in some exercises, but I'd like to hear some more experienced input on this.

[Khazima]

The only time it could potentially be an issue is over use injuries from wear and tear on the knees if you don't give them time to recover (deloads etc) or if you're planning on doing a powerlifting meet. If you're planning on competing then it's just too inefficient to squat completely ATG (ass to grass) and you should start trying things like widening your stance, loading your hips etc.

[Splifton]

When you go for a wider stance would there be a need to adjust the bar placement?

I leave my compound movements for the latter portion of my routine. I try to use isolation movements to pre-exhaust the group with the idea in mind that during the compound lift my body is more likely to recruit more muscle fibers due to the higher demand in closed kinetic chain exercises.

My warm up for squats besides the traditional static stretches that target the posterior chain and hip flexors/abductors is 4 sets of roughly 15-20 front to back leg swings then I do side to side. Occasionally I may foam roll my hamstrings, but overall I have no mobility issues in regards to my lower extremities.

[Khazima]

When you go for a wider stance would there be a need to adjust the bar placement?

I leave my compound movements for the latter portion of my routine. I try to use isolation movements to pre-exhaust the group with the idea in mind that during the compound lift my body is more likely to recruit more muscle fibers due to the higher demand in closed kinetic chain exercises.

No, not unless you're switching to low bar squats which i wouldn't worry about for the time being.

That's just a theory, the small amount of research done on it has shown that you either get the same or better recruitment by doing your compounds first and it also reduces the risk of injury since you're not fatigued and there's less room for error doing your big lifts (you're more likely to make mistakes in a fatigued state).

[Splifton]

No, not unless you're switching to low bar squats which i wouldn't worry about for the time being.

That's just a theory, the small amount of research done on it has shown that you either get the same or better recruitment by doing your compounds first and it also reduces the risk of injury since you're not fatigued and there's less room for error doing your big lifts (you're more likely to make mistakes in a fatigued state).

I'll keep that in mind. Since we are on the topic of squats should I not over complicate the learning process and just stick to front/back squats? I know its recommended to eventually try variations like sumo squats. I haven't really used the hack squat machine too much because I'm having difficulty feeling the exercise. Instead I just feel like I'm working the movement.

Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions for me. It's greatly appreciated.

[cttoasn]

When you go for a wider stance would there be a need to adjust the bar placement? .

Power lifters use a "low bar back sqt" with the bar placed low in the traps, and hit parallel but no lower as the wide stance limits depth. Your torso will have a much more significant forward lean with this style. It's also more difficult to keep the knees tracking over toes and not going valgus. Not impossible, just takes more awareness.

Olympic lifters, we use the "high bar back squat" bar placed high on traps, feet are just outside shoulders, allowing hips to sit between the heels. Torso will be as vertical as possible. This allows full depth, limited only by your hamstrings hitting your calfs. Assuming you keep the weight on your heels, your knees are not valgus and your torso maintains a good posture, there is no damage to proper depth. This style of squatting is used for front squats in regards to stance, torso and depth.

These movements are sport specific but with targeting different muscle groups more than others, I am sure body builders will vary what they do. Just don't be the guy thinking that reps at 405 while barely hitting parallel with the high bar, Olympic style squat is legit. Drop the weight and get low, or switch to a low bar powerlifting style.

[Splifton]

Power lifters use a "low bar back sqt" with the bar placed low in the traps, and hit parallel but no lower as the wide stance limits depth. Your torso will have a much more significant forward lean with this style. It's also difficult to keep the knees tracking over toes and not going valgus.

Olympic lifters, we use the "high bar back squat" bar placed high on traps, feet are just outside shoulders, allowing hips to sit between the heels. Torso will be as vertical as possible. This allows full depth, limited only by your hamstrings hitting your calfs. Assuming you keep the weight on your heels, your knees are not valgus and your torso maintains a good posture, there is no damage to proper depth. This style of squatting is used for front squats in regards to stance, torso and depth.

These movements are sport specific but with targeting different muscle groups more than others, I am sure body builders will vary what they do.

Just don't be the guy thinking that reps at 405 while barely hitting parallel with the high bar, Olympic style squat is legit. Drop the weight and get low, or switch to a low bar powerlifting style.

Haha I have had the pleasure on many occasions watching people lift with their ego and the result was unfortunate, but comical. I try to focus on contracting my muscles and staying in full control of the movement. I really don't lift any impressive amount of weight. I'm 6' 5'' 183 lbs and roughly 9-10% body fat and I have a 29'' waist. I'm a broomstick with calves.

[Khazima]

Don't worry too much about trying to overload with information yet, you're doing really well by researching and learning so far. You're more onto it than some people who have been lifting for 10 years! Just stick with the basics for now, try to progress in weight week to week and eat lots of food to try and put of some size, and learn as you go!

[Splifton]

Don't worry too much about trying to overload with information yet, you're doing really well by researching and learning so far. You're more onto it than some people who have been lifting for 10 years! Just stick with the basics for now, try to progress in weight week to week and eat lots of food to try and put of some size, and learn as you go!

I got the nutritional part down for the most part, but I'm backwards in this game. The workout part I tend to overthink everything. The eating part is a piece of cake. Sports nutrition wasn't too meticulous to comprehend once I understood the fundamental physiological mechanics that regulate our energy balance. I'm sure I could definitely learn more if I made a thread in the diet section, but I feel like I'm spamming.

Thank you for your knowledge. I hope I can successfully apply this to my workout.

One more question...my ideology around my training is that my time under tension and rest periods are identical in time. So if my set took 45 seconds to complete then I allocate 45 seconds of rest. I don't do any drop sets, but I take consideration into making sure my negative movements actually last longer than 1-2 seconds. Do these principles sound alright? My workouts generally take 1 hour to 1 hour and 30 minutes.

[jaysath]

Think basic , if it doesn't feel good don't do it. You don't always have to go ass calves. Concentrate on keeping constant tension on the muscle rather than over complicating the movement

[cttoasn]

I'm not a body builder but the advice to just keep I simple sounds solid.

I high bar Olympic back squat 2x per week and front squat 1x per week. Plus every clean results in a front squat and very snatch results in an overhead squat.

I've never though on time under tension, muscle recruitment, etc...I squat, I squat low and I squat safely.

The result....big ****ing legs and pants that don't fit ha ha. Which, having big quads is a plus for body builders I am sure.

[bloodchoke]

I'm a fan going--at minimum--just below parallel. During warm-up sets and max-rep burn-out sets, I go ass to achilles. As long as you're dropping your ass (and not pushing it back), depth is your friend. Like Khazima said, if you're squatting regularly, you're already ahead of the curve. If you're squatting deep, you're waaay ahead of the curve.

[Splifton]

Remember I don't really squat a lot of weight though. I can do 225 for 5 comfortable reps, but that is about it. I don't see how someone would ignore squatting. The feeling is fantastic.

[bloodchoke]

Form and range of motion are more important than the nominal weight you're lifting. If you're failing between 5-10 reps at 225 lbs with proper form and full range of motion, that's where you are right now. Train there proudly. Gyms are full of folks with bars loaded with more weight than they can properly handle, doing these bullshit 1/4-1/2 reps. It's like the guys you see doing 15 "push-ups" where they barely bend their elbows rather than doing 3-5 solid, full r.o.m. push-ups. With full r.o.m. and proper form, you'll not only better protect yourself from injury, you'll get truly stronger, faster. If there's no pain (pain is different from discomfort), squat deep.

[Splifton]

Yeah I can say from being a new guy to really weightlifting in comparison to the strength training I did for sports is pretty intimidating at times. Thankfully I'm naturally not too egotistical so I lift with the consciousnesses goal of harm reduction in mind. However I do get a little self conscious when I'm the guy in the gym that is lifting the smallest amount of weight. Ironically when I'm in the sauna though I look the most developed because I'm a psycho when it comes to nutrition.

I beat everyone out in the calves department though which is nice sometimes.

[bloodchoke]

Haha -- right on. I'm pretty fortunate that my calves have developed very nicely, too. A few times a month, total strangers--both women and men--compliment my calves. My forearms are the same way.

[Splifton]

I'm not well versed with the significance of measurements. Is a 16.5'' calve circumference pretty good? My legs are 20'', but I would think that is typical being a runner.

[bloodchoke]

Ultimately, that would depend on how tall you are but 16.5" is thicker than most guys' necks.

[Splifton]

I was 6' 5'' at my last physical, but sometimes they get 6' 4''. I just think they have difficulty with reaching my head.

[Khazima]

I have no calves but I out squat and out deadlift anyone close to my size at most commercial gyms