switching esters

[tice1212]

Hey boys I have a couple of pins left of my tren e 250. I will be switching it to tren a. I'm doing 500mg a week. So for an example: if tonight I pinned my last 250mg of tren e when would be the best time to pin my tren a to keep my levels somewhat balanced?

[Mp859]

Just come off the tren after you finish the enanthate.

[tice1212]

Just come off the tren after you finish the enanthate.

I have 4 more weeks bro then I'm coming off.

[NACH3]

Hey boys I have a couple of pins left of my tren e 250. I will be switching it to tren a. I'm doing 500mg a week. So for an example: if tonight I pinned my last 250mg of tren e when would be the best time to pin my tren a to keep my levels somewhat balanced?

Just figure out the timing and half lives and stop pinning Tren e now and start introducing Tren a(you could wait till it almost cleared- Tren e - but it's the same compound so you could technically start to build the Tren a up as the Tren e Is leaving the system so there's no blood serum dips) so you'd be replacing the tren e w/Tren a - after 14 days you'll want to have your Tren a as high as you wanted to run...

Is this for transitioning into pct or for a lil run?

[tice1212]

Just figure out the timing and half lives and stop pinning Tren e now and start introducing Tren a(you could wait till it almost cleared- Tren e - but it's the same compound so you could technically start to build the Tren a up as the Tren e Is leaving the system so there's no blood serum dips) so you'd be replacing the tren e w/Tren a - after 14 days you'll want to have your Tren a as high as you wanted to run...

Is this for transitioning into pct or for a lil run?

To be 100% honest with u guys I'm switching because I am about to run out of tren e and I have a bunch of tren a. I didn't think I would love tren e as much as I have been. So I didn't have enough tren e to run the length I wanted because I didn't know I would like it better then tren a. I'll cruise for 4-5 weeks before show prep in the beginning of may.

[MIKE_XXL]

Something to think about, i have had a discussion with a smarter person then me who informed me that tren E is only 37% as effective as tren a per mg. he has actually done studies on it to substantiate the claims. Apparently Masterone Prop and Eneth, has the same effect. to explain the merit behind this think about it this way, it take 50mg of instant release aspirin to get rid of your headache as it takes 325mg of regular to get rid of same headache. Some items are just not meant to be release in ling esters and loose their potency being attached to slow releasing esters, no more tren E for me, just tren A...anyway something to think about...

To be 100% honest with u guys I'm switching because I am about to run out of tren e and I have a bunch of tren a. I didn't think I would love tren e as much as I have been. So I didn't have enough tren e to run the length I wanted because I didn't know I would like it better then tren a. I'll cruise for 4-5 weeks before show prep in the beginning of may.

[NACH3]

To be 100% honest with u guys I'm switching because I am about to run out of tren e and I have a bunch of tren a. I didn't think I would love tren e as much as I have been. So I didn't have enough tren e to run the length I wanted because I didn't know I would like it better then tren a. I'll cruise for 4-5 weeks before show prep in the beginning of may.

How long you been running the Tren e? Under 10wks... And how long do you want to run the Tren a?? Ishouldn't have said pct I forgot your plan

[NACH3]

Something to think about, i have had a discussion with a smarter person then me who informed me that tren E is only 37% as effective as tren a per mg. he has actually done studies on it to substantiate the claims. Apparently Masterone Prop and Eneth, has the same effect. to explain the merit behind this think about it this way, it take 50mg of instant release aspirin to get rid of your headache as it takes 325mg of regular to get rid of same headache. Some items are just not meant to be release in ling esters and loose their potency being attached to slow releasing esters, no more tren E for me, just tren A...anyway something to think about...

Hey Mike, that's basically like prop compared to cyp(but not as bad I don't think lol) or acetate snd Cyp - acetate is about 85-6mgs/per 100mg, while cyp is in the mid 60s... Is this the same concept your throwing out there? Just curious really

[Bio-Active]

The longer ester will build in your system as it releases so mg for mg yes ace is stronger but you end up with higher blood levels over time with enanthate

[tice1212]

Something to think about, i have had a discussion with a smarter person then me who informed me that tren E is only 37% as effective as tren a per mg. he has actually done studies on it to substantiate the claims. Apparently Masterone Prop and Eneth, has the same effect. to explain the merit behind this think about it this way, it take 50mg of instant release aspirin to get rid of your headache as it takes 325mg of regular to get rid of same headache. Some items are just not meant to be release in ling esters and loose their potency being attached to slow releasing esters, no more tren E for me, just tren A...anyway something to think about...

Wow really. I wonder why this tren e is hitting me harder and with better results then every tren a cycle. But that for sure something think about. Does the same go for longer test esters too?

[tice1212]

How long you been running the Tren e? Under 10wks... And how long do you want to run the Tren a?? Ishouldn't have said pct I forgot your plan

Just 4 more weeks from today bro. Its been ten weeks this far.

[Bio-Active]

Wow really. I wonder why this tren e is hitting me harder and with better results then every tren a cycle. But that for sure something think about. Does the same go for longer test esters too?

did you read my post

[Mp859]

Just 4 more weeks from today bro. Its been ten weeks this far.

With the sides you have been getting I would come off brotha. I'm not trying to be a dick. Just doesn't make sense to me personally to stay on with the paranoia and sex issues going on. Just pull the tren, it will still take a few weeks to clear so you will still have the benefits.

[tice1212]

did you read my post

Just did. That's makes sense now

[Bio-Active]

Just did. That's makes sense now

thats why the sides creep up more with the longer ester

[tice1212]

With the sides you have been getting I would come off brotha. I'm not trying to be a dick. Just doesn't make sense to me personally to stay on with the paranoia and sex issues going on. Just pull the tren, it will still take a few weeks to clear so you will still have the benefits.

Oh bro I know ur not being a dick. Ur just being straight forward which I do appreciate. My sex problem is better ever since I started the caber. The paranoia is dumb lol I must admit. I need to man the fvck up lol.. But if the tren makes me not sleep then yes I swear to god I will drop this or if gyno flare up. I need my sleep more then anything .

[Mp859]

Oh bro I know ur not being a dick. Ur just being straight forward which I do appreciate. My sex problem is better ever since I started the caber. The paranoia is dumb lol I must admit. I need to man the fvck up lol.. But if the tren makes me not sleep then yes I swear to god I will drop this or if gyno flare up. I need my sleep more then anything .

To be honest, 10 weeks is usually plenty for my tren cycles. I would switch compounds if you don't want to come off.

[MIKE_XXL]

you can also add proviron or masterone both should help with that...or run cialis at 5mg ED or 10mg EOD, thats what i do but i am old...LOL...

Oh bro I know ur not being a dick. Ur just being straight forward which I do appreciate. My sex problem is better ever since I started the caber. The paranoia is dumb lol I must admit. I need to man the fvck up lol.. But if the tren makes me not sleep then yes I swear to god I will drop this or if gyno flare up. I need my sleep more then anything .

[MIKE_XXL]

You are talking about ester weight, what i am referring to some hormones are more efficient in a short release ester and simply can not maintain their efficiency attached to longer esters, basically degrade as the time goes on and once the ester is ready to release the hormone ts no longer 100% active. This holds true to masterone, better used in prop, tren better used in acetate and then deca but in reverse better used in nandrolone instead of phenylpropinate.

Like i said think of it as aspirin, 50 mg instant release instead of 325mg to deal with the same headache, clearly the quicker the release the better the effectiveness and extended release lowers the effectiveness of the medication...

Hey Mike, that's basically like prop compared to cyp(but not as bad I don't think lol) or acetate snd Cyp - acetate is about 85-6mgs/per 100mg, while cyp is in the mid 60s... Is this the same concept your throwing out there? Just curious really

[MIKE_XXL]

I do not believe its that simple, the hormone degrades even while being attached to the ester and when released is not as effective as it is in instant release format. The person i talked to regarding this is a pro level well educated in the science of hormones, the tren results have been substantiated by blood tests measuring the active hormone on plasma level post administration over extended period of time. Masterone and deca are theories.

Also think about it, in real world application there is no tren enanth, dont you think big pharm looks for most effective ways to deliver the hormone to the subject? If this was a better way that is the formulation that would be commercially available, and it is not.

The longer ester will build in your system as it releases so mg for mg yes ace is stronger but you end up with higher blood levels over time with enanthate

[MIKE_XXL]

Longer esters and their effectiveness is due to ester weight, this is different theory...

Wow really. I wonder why this tren e is hitting me harder and with better results then every tren a cycle. But that for sure something think about. Does the same go for longer test esters too?

[tice1212]

I do not believe its that simple, the hormone degrades even while being attached to the ester and when released is not as effective as it is in instant release format. The person i talked to regarding this is a pro level well educated in the science of hormones, the tren results have been substantiated by blood tests measuring the active hormone on plasma level post administration over extended period of time. Masterone and deca are theories.

Also think about it, in real world application there is no tren enanth, dont you think big pharm looks for most effective ways to deliver the hormone to the subject? If this was a better way that is the formulation that would be commercially available, and it is not.

If this is the truth mike why would u think I'm feeling this cycle much more then the last 3 tren a cycles ranging from (300, 500 &700mg) I mean the two cycles cycles were short burst cycles not passing the 6 week mark. I'm on week ten of this 500mg tren e cycle. Just curious. Maybe because they were from different sources.

[Mp859]

If this is the truth mike why would u think I'm feeling this cycle much more then the last 3 tren a cycles ranging from (300, 500 &700mg) I mean the two cycles cycles were short burst cycles not passing the 6 week mark. I'm on week ten of this 500mg tren e cycle. Just curious. Maybe because they were from different sources.

better tren?

[Bio-Active]

I do not believe its that simple, the hormone degrades even while being attached to the ester and when released is not as effective as it is in instant release format. The person i talked to regarding this is a pro level well educated in the science of hormones, the tren results have been substantiated by blood tests measuring the active hormone on plasma level post administration over extended period of time. Masterone and deca are theories. Also think about it, in real world application there is no tren enanth, dont you think big pharm looks for most effective ways to deliver the hormone to the subject? If this was a better way that is the formulation that would be commercially available, and it is not.

at the professional level I would agree. They manage every little thing and make daily adjustments. They are known to run labs several times each week and running longer ester would be almost pointless

[MIKE_XXL]

I dont want to speculate to much but could be quality of product, maybe enanth is over dosed and ace was under-dosed, perhaps ace was test prop or even mast prop, there is no sure way to tell without sending for testing. I just switched to half the dose of enath to ace and feel it better and my body composition is changing and all within being on for week or two. both mine are from same lab.

[MIKE_XXL]

Its not a small thing, think about it this way 37mg of ace would equal 100mg of Enanth, that is a big difference in effectiveness that can not be ignored, i am not here to prove anything i was a skeptic myself at first but have come to believe this to be true...as i dais the person i talked to about this is very well versed in the science of PEDs...

at the professional level I would agree. They manage every little thing and make daily adjustments. They are known to run labs several times each week and running longer ester would be almost pointless

[tice1212]

I dont want to speculate to much but could be quality of product, maybe enanth is over dosed and ace was under-dosed, perhaps ace was test prop or even mast prop, there is no sure way to tell without sending for testing. I just switched to half the dose of enath to ace and feel it better and my body composition is changing and all within being on for week or two.

So when would u think would be the best day to pin my 150mg tren a. Let's say yesterday was my last pin of 250mg tren e. Should I wait out the 10.5 days or pin after day 5 after my last pin?

[tice1212]

better tren?

Probably now that I'm hearing this stuff

[Bio-Active]

Its not a small thing, think about it this way 37mg of ace would equal 100mg of Enanth, that is a big difference in effectiveness that can not be ignored, i am not here to prove anything i was a skeptic myself at first but have come to believe this to be true...as i dais the person i talked to about this is very well versed in the science of PEDs...

true but the enanthate releases slower snd over time you end up with higher blood levels on the same weekly dose

[MIKE_XXL]

Not if the hormone becomes unstable while attached to a longer ester which seems to be the cause of this short coming of tren E. I think the hormone is unable to stay active while being in the body for extended period of time and simply looses its potency and structure is altered making it non-bio-available.

true but the enanthate releases slower snd over time you end up with higher blood levels on the same weekly dose

[Bio-Active]

Not if the hormone becomes unstable while attached to a longer ester which seems to be the cause of this short coming of tren E. I think the hormone is unable to stay active while being in the body for extended period of time and simply looses its potency and structure is altered making it non-bio-available.

run labs and compare test prop vs test cyp same weekly dose. I've done it and after six weeks my blood levels were higher on cyp. Might be different with tren. Now maybe my levels were higher on the cyp cause it was pharm grade and prop was ugl.

[NACH3]

run labs and compare test prop vs test cyp same weekly dose. I've done it and after six weeks my blood levels were higher on cyp. Might be different with tren. Now maybe my levels were higher on the cyp cause it was pharm grade and prop was ugl.

I think this is the ester weight as I asked up top, Bio(and im getting its the Tren thats the difference and the ester attached)?!...

My levels on prop were higher 6wks in than on cyp at 100mgs lower than the cyp I was running... Could've been Underdosed cyp or overdosed prop but im not too sure... This is what im gathering from my post asking Mike about the difference in prop and cyp mg for mg... If that's what you mean...

Plus im running all short esters w/cyp combined w/prop

[Bio-Active]

I think this is the ester weight as I asked up top, Bio(and im getting its the Tren thats the difference and the ester attached)?!... My levels on prop were higher 6wks in than on cyp at 100mgs lower than the cyp I was running... Could've been Underdosed cyp or overdosed prop but im not too sure... This is what im gathering from my post asking Mike about the difference in prop and cyp mg for mg... If that's what you mean... Plus im running all short esters w/cyp combined w/prop

how close were they just out of curiosity?

[NACH3]

how close were they just out of curiosity?

Still pretty damn close!
Well the prop was pinned ed so that alone(now I think of it could very well be the culprit) not having 3 days b4 last pin w/cyp(750/wk) was 5200ish ng/dl
Prop(600/wk 6000ish ng/dl -- around about - it wasn't too much of a difference and that's just the test - no NPP involved

[Bio-Active]

Still pretty damn close! Well the prop was pinned ed so that alone(now I think of it could very well be the culprit) not having 3 days b4 last pin w/cyp(750/wk) was 5200ish ng/dl Prop(600/wk 6000ish ng/dl -- around about - it wasn't too much of a difference and that's just the test - no NPP involved

yes pretty close. Nice number too

[NACH3]

yes pretty close. Nice number too

Yeah it was closer than I had remembered, actually... But I surely think that the ed pinning made the prop higher...

[MIKE_XXL]

Its not an ester issue but the hormone itself. It seems that tren stays effective/stable in the body for shorter period of time, longer ester extends it release time but by doing so the hormone itself becomes unstable and degrades making it less effective then when released at a faster rate. I am taking lower dose of ace then i did enanth and am getting much better results. Like i said the idea was brought to me by someone i trust and look up to for the incredible amount of knowledge he possesses. I have no reason to disbelieve what he is telling me, he has nothing to gain by miss leading me, nor is he my supplier or associated with me or my business in any way. This guy has stepped on Olympia stage in the past and i would say is one of the top knowledgeable people i know. so please take it for what it is.

The best proof is that no big pharm company has released tren enath or Materone Enanth in their arsenal nor has any company released NPP, there is a reason for this and it has to be effectiveness of route of delivery. Test is not a comparable here as it proven to be stable regardless of length of ester.

[NACH3]

Its not an ester issue but the hormone itself. It seems that tren stays effective/stable in the body for shorter period of time, longer ester extends it release time but by doing so the hormone itself becomes unstable and degrades making it less effective then when released at a faster rate. I am taking lower dose of ace then i did enanth and am getting much better results. Like i said the idea was brought to me by someone i trust and look up to for the incredible amount of knowledge he possesses. I have no reason to disbelieve what he is telling me, he has nothing to gain by miss leading me, nor is he my supplier or associated with me or my business in any way. This guy has stepped on Olympia stage in the past and i would say is one of the top knowledgeable people i know. so please take it for what it is.

The best proof is that no big pharm company has released tren enath or Materone Enanth in their arsenal nor has any company released NPP, there is a reason for this and it has to be effectiveness of route of delivery. Test is not a comparable here as it proven to be stable regardless of length of ester.

This is what I gathered from you Mike(after I asked my ? regarding ester weight not the hormone Tren) itself... I think a few posts up I mention it(if I was gathering it right from what you had explained)..

What do you mean about the NPP? I got lost there - but I'm thinking its a short ester(IR - rather than a slower edter built up over time) so nandrolone being able to be brewed up legally... What's the problem with the route of delivery from NPP?

[Bio-Active]

Ah gotcha I missed that we were talking tren exclusive

[MIKE_XXL]

In firther discussion with my guy, he brought up the point that nanrolone is better suited to be released over time with longer ester deconate and might not be as effective in short ester form. Meaning Deca might be better delivery system then NPP. Also i dont think NPP exists in medical community, which would indicate that Decanoate might be more efficient way to be delivered for nandrolone. This is a theory at the moment and has not been proven in testing environment, where as tren theory has been demonstrated to hold true in test my friend has completed.

This is what I gathered from you Mike(after I asked my ? regarding ester weight not the hormone Tren) itself... I think a few posts up I mention it(if I was gathering it right from what you had explained)..

What do you mean about the NPP? I got lost there - but I'm thinking its a short ester(IR - rather than a slower edter built up over time) so nandrolone being able to be brewed up legally... What's the problem with the route of delivery from NPP?