Carbs and Cutting and Anavar-Only Cycles, Oh My!

[juggs]

Hi guys, I apologize for the slight title troll, but what I wanted to ask does have to do with an anavar (or other cutting compound) only cycle, sort of. Please bear with me.

First off let me say I've trained recreationally and competitively in strength sports for going on 16 years now. I've studied diet and nutrition for years, both formally during undergrad and countless hours on my own time scouring PubMed, attending certification seminars, etc. (Yes I know my LBM, BMR, TDEE, yadda yadda). And for about the last 2-3 years I've researched every aspect of AAS. Trust me, research is how I put food on the table, and when I become interested in a topic it's more like an information binge. I read Austin's excellent sticky on top reviewing the primary aspects of a first cycle, and not a word of it came as the slightest surprise. I only mention all this so I don't get insta-flamed for not doing my research and can hopefully get some useful feedback from experienced users. I have and still do, and I'm aware of the risks.

I start TRT tomorrow. I was prescribed a very high dosage - 210mg of test-cyp and 2000iu of hCG per week, plus adex as needed, probably between 1 and 2mg per week. Given the high dose there is a possibility I will bank some of this for a future cycle. I'm interested in cutting cycles only. I want to lean down and gain small amounts of QUALITY mass, even if that is the slow road. I don't care to gain 20lbs on a cycle only to lose a bunch of water and hopefully some fat at the end and be left with 4-6lbs of muscle gained. I've been there and done that all natural, and the yo-yo effect has only contributed even further to my already difficult time in attaining/maintaining a lean bodyweight.

My first cycle will probably be test only like everyone recommends, even though I will have already been on low(ish) dose (by AAS standards) test for quite a while by then. After which I would like to try some of the more mild cutting compounds, var, primo, masteron, maybe winny. The thing is, I plan to try this while only on a TRT level dose of test, even though my TRT dose is on the high end. It won't be anything like 500mg per week like what is recommended for a first cycle - the focus will be the cutting agent.

Does anyone with cutting cycle experience think it's worthwhile to run a moderate to high dose cutting agent (I have NAC on hand for liver support), or two cutting agents, along with my 210mg per week TRT dose to help change body composition? I'm sitting at 210lbs right now, about 24% BF. I did a BodPod reading, but that was a while ago. I also realize I might aromatize more and have to take a higher dose of adex to counteract that.

I've never been what you would call super lean, even in high school playing multiple sports and doing two-a-day practices, it was very rare to even see abs. Now I'm a working father whose wife is deployed all the time, with a demanding job, kids that are in extracurricular activities, I'm in grad school nights and weekends, etc. so I live a VERY sedentary lifestyle, aside from the 2-4hrs per week (if I'm lucky) that I get to train - mostly big lifts in the 3-12 rep range plus occasional prowler sprints and incline treadmill walking. Now, I just had a major shoulder surgery and my physical activity is going to be even further reduced for the next few months, but I'm trying to minimize that with increased lower body training.

I've spent 15 years learning about nutrition and trying different diets and exercise protocols with great strength gains but very limited success in weight control. I can only tolerate about 75g of carbs per day before I start gaining weight. I kick myself every time I try and don't know why I still bother but trying to do a typical bodybuilder diet with eggs and oats in the morning, chicken, broccoli and brown rice at lunch, fish and yams for dinner, etc. I can gain 2 inches around my waist in a day or two! I just tried it again and I'm 7lbs heavier than I was about 4 days ago. It doesn't work for me, from a weight control perspective. But also, on low carbs I look and feel pretty flat due to lack of glycogen, as expected. I drink 3-4 liters of water per day, and I'm also on an ace inhibitor and diuretic for hypertension (runs in the family).

I'm sitting at 210lbs right now, which is where I always get to before I plateau indefinitely then say f*** it and start eating/lifting big again. I need to get down to 190 - all fat loss - to be what I would call sort of lean, sub 15% BF.

I'm at my wit's end with this, and just want to be lean without losing muscle and strength and rebounding again and again. Maybe TRT will help with this issue since my test is currently low, but at this point I'm seriously considering TRT + cycling on and off of cutting compounds.

[tarmyg]

Until you reach around 15% body fat I do not think adding another agent is necessary, potentially all the way down to 10% depending on how you do it. At 24% (I have been there) I would focus on protein intake being high. As you seem to value papers there is a new one out that might interest you and that could help: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/103/3/738.long Without being rude, you seem to have the theoretical knowledge but need, perhaps, some more practical application of the same to see how things work out.

[juggs]

Thank you for the input. And I would never be offended by constructive criticism. Yes I do a lot of research, maybe too much, but I've also tried every diet under the sun as well. And not just on myself. I've done diet and lifting programs with roommates when I was in the Army and even with my wife, only to see other people's progress move pretty steadily while mine quickly slows to a halt. I gain weight and strength easily. After a really rough weight cut for an MMA fight in 2009, I decided to bulk up to the next weight class and went from 185 at weigh-in to 222 only 4 weeks later! Granted a lot of fat, water, and stomach content, but the point is I gain weight EASILY. Losing weight is my problem. My biggest issues are persistence and compliance, but even when I've had those in check for several months at a time I've never gotten truly lean. I don't mean to sound like I'm blaming genetics here; I'm just frustrated.

Well I started TRT today and so have new-found motivation to crack the body comp. code, stick with it, and make some permanent progress.

Thanks for the study link. I've read several like it touting the values of a high protein diet. It's a good reminder. I can't get away with the carb level of a typical bodybuilder diet, but I will aim for that level of protein intake, and also try to keep my fat intake low as well, something I haven't done in the past on paleo-style diets - loads of olive oil, almonds, avocado, etc.

Thanks again, tarmyg.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

My biggest issues are persistence and compliance, but even when I've had those in check for several months at a time I've never gotten truly lean.

If it took more than several months to get out of shape then it is going to take more than several months to get in shape.

This lifestyle is a marathon not a sprint.

Do not do any AAS until you get your TRT dialed in for at least a year.
The oral steroids will mess up your blood work and your doctor is most likely going to be ordering blood work.

[juggs]

Will hold off for a while. First pin was yesterday, more blood work at 8 weeks, then 6 and 12 months. I'm going to give TRT time to do its work, and will reevaluate at the 6 month mark. Hell, there is a possibility of getting what I need from my doc, so no need to keep him in the dark about things if I don't have to. The clinic I'm going through offered deca to help with my shoulder surgery recovery, but I didn't follow up on that for various reasons.