2 years of TRT / quit due to negative side effects / looking to start back

[Relogic]

So ~2 years ago I got my blood work done to see if I qualified for TRT through my doctor, who is apart of the Live Well MD network. My total test came back ~250ng/ml. He set me up on this therapy: 200mg of test cyp every 6 days, .5mg of anastrozole 5 days a week, .25mg finasteride every day, and 2000 iu of HCG every week 2 days before injecting the cyp. Everything went great for about a year, and then the bad side effects kicked in....at which point I quit the HCG but continued everything else.

So the bad abnormal side effects were: when id get hot and start sweating, EXTREME AND PAINFUL itching would occur on my upper body and face sometimes accompanied by little red dots all over, but would only last ~5 minutes and go away, even with continued sweating (dermatologist ruled out histimaines and couldnt figure out what was causing it) and heart palpitations was the other.

The last time I got checked before I quit, my total testosterone was ~950ng/ml but my free test was ~12ng/ml. The doctor couldnt explain why my free test was so low when my total was so high and to this day I still dont know. During this whole period my estrogen according to my doctor was in the sweet spot he wanted it. If I remember correctly it was <10. At this point I wasnt feeling anywhere as good as I was when I first started TRT. Decreased libido, energy, muscle strength. Also as a side note, my cholesterol crept up to ~258 but I was able to get it down to 158 through diet alone while still doing TRT. I also started giving blood to control my hemacrit and iron levels.

As soon as I quit HRT, the bad abnormal side effects went away to my utter delight, but now Im stuck with a decreased libido, energy, and muscle strength.

I was thinking of starting an online HRT program this time around, but not doing finasteride, doing a much smaller dose of anastrozole (maybe .25mg every 3 days), and not doing any HCG.

If any of you can give me any insight on what was going on with my body during my first round of TRT that would be great. Also any suggestions on future TRT would be warmly recieved as well.

FYI Im 34, 6'3", and 195 lbs.

[kelkel]

Welcome to the forum Relogic.

A few things. 200 mgs test is high end. Most will never need that amount.
Dosing every 6 days is fine for testosterone. Many prefer smaller doses twice weekly.
Taking .5 anastrazole 5 days a week is horrible and probably the main culprit for feeling bad. Consider that guys running a 500 mg per week cycle normally use only .25 adex every other day. Estrogen at less than 10 (if accurate) can easily make you feel like crap.
.25 of Finasteride is fine but why was this prescribed? Prostate or hair?
2000 iu's of HCG is absurd. It's not a fertility clinic! 250 - 500 IU's twice per week is all that's needed for TRT. 2K is ridiculous and can contribute to estrogen issues among others.

Read this: Preserving fertility in the hypogonadal patient: an update

Would need to see the range on your free T but I'd assume your SHBG is elevated binding your FT, causing it to be low.

So, what was wrong is that your doctor had you on a ridiculous protocol and doesn't know what he/she was doing. Start fresh with a lower dose, maybe 100 mgs per week or every 5 days, low dose HCG and wait until your first blood work to determine if adex is needed. Slow and steady wins this race. It's always easier to ramp a protocol up than it is to go to hard to fast and then have to mitigate the side effects.

Be sure to read the sticky threads here. Other guys will chime in as well.

kel

[Relogic]

He said the finasteride was mainly to prevent hairloss, even though I have no family history of it.

As far as HCG, is it even needed? Im not having kids and I dont care if my testicles shrink. I also plan on being on TRT indefinitely if none of those abnormal symptoms come back. Any other reason to be taking it with my therapy?

He also had me try Testofen to try and get my free test higher, but I never went back and checked what the blood results revealed to see if it worked. I never felt any better on it, however it did make my armpit sweat smell like maple syrup, which is a documented side effect of fenugreek. What could be causing a high level of SHBG and whats a proven way to lower it? My doctor didnt have an answer to that other than to try the Testofen.

[hammerheart]

SHBG could be high from the fina, but it's a guess. The usual culprit is E2 but yours was crushed by anastrozole, which is likely the cause for high cholesterol.

So the bad abnormal side effects were: when id get hot and start sweating, EXTREME AND PAINFUL itching would occur on my upper body and face sometimes accompanied by little red dots all over, but would only last ~5 minutes and go away, even with continued sweating (dermatologist ruled out histimaines and couldnt figure out what was causing it) and heart palpitations was the other.

These are vasomotor symptoms from low E2.

HCG is found by many to improve wellbeing a bit but low doses are enough.

I suggest you restart with a simple protocol. Try between 100-150mg every five days. Add ana once per week, the day after pin - 0.25 mg. Increase only if needed.

You can always add HCG later. I suggest you stay away from fina, really no need if male pattern balndess is not in your genetic preset.

[kelkel]

Good advice from Bizzarro as usual. I see no need for the Fina either. A bit preemptive by the doc. Means well I'm sure...
Read this on HCG. It's about far more than just fertility:

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...ould-know.html

When it comes to shbg. Testosterone is always the quickest way to suppress it. I'd figure out a new protocol and see where your shbg lands about 6 weeks in with your first BW.

[Simon1972]

not much to add here. As an example, i use the following protocol and it suits me.

Tuesday Pm: 0.5mg anastrozole, 30Ius Test E (75mg) (250mg/ml)
Sat AM: 0.5mg Anastrozole , 30Ius Test E (75mg) (250mg/ml)

and thats all there is to it, you can add ancillary products as you go, such as DHEA and Pregnenalone and HCG , once you allow your body to stabilise, be patient and wait for bloodwork at a minimum 6 weeks intervals.

but agreed- 150 mg a week is all im on- even i suspect im pushing it too hard at that dose and can afford to go lower.

[gymffiti]

So ~2 years ago I got my blood work done to see if I qualified for TRT through my doctor, who is apart of the Live Well MD network. My total test came back ~250ng/ml. He set me up on this therapy: 200mg of test cyp every 6 days, .5mg of anastrozole 5 days a week, .25mg finasteride every day, and 2000 iu of HCG every week 2 days before injecting the cyp. Everything went great for about a year, and then the bad side effects kicked in....at which point I quit the HCG but continued everything else.

So the bad abnormal side effects were: when id get hot and start sweating, EXTREME AND PAINFUL itching would occur on my upper body and face sometimes accompanied by little red dots all over, but would only last ~5 minutes and go away, even with continued sweating (dermatologist ruled out histimaines and couldnt figure out what was causing it) and heart palpitations was the other.

As soon as I quit HRT, the bad abnormal side effects went away to my utter delight, but now Im stuck with a decreased libido, energy, and muscle strength.

That's very interesting, because I have those exact symptoms and I haven't even started TRT (or cycled) yet.

FWIW my -

T = 6.59 nmol/L
E2 = 38.57 pmol/L

[75 Dogs]

So the bad abnormal side effects were: when id get hot and start sweating, EXTREME AND PAINFUL itching would occur on my upper body and face sometimes accompanied by little red dots all over, but would only last ~5 minutes and go away, even with continued sweating (dermatologist ruled out histimaines and couldnt figure out what was causing it) and heart palpitations was the other.

During this whole period my estrogen according to my doctor was in the sweet spot he wanted it. If I remember correctly it was <10. At this point I wasnt feeling anywhere as good as I was when I first started TRT. Decreased libido, energy, muscle strength.

As soon as I quit HRT, the bad abnormal side effects went away to my utter delight, but now Im stuck with a decreased libido, energy, and muscle strength.

I am no expert, although I have my TRT dialed in pretty well. But my 2-cents is I used to get night sweats like crazy (I mean SOAKING sheets) and it was caused by both high AND low estrogen. Same side effects either way.

I don't know what your reference level is, but your under-10 on my 8-35 scale would seem to be near the lower end of the spectrum. I'm also sensitive to anastrazole myself, and taking even the amount kelkel suggested will tank me...so I dose less than that. Were you seriously taking that 5 days a week, or was that a misprint?

The only way to know what works for you is the long, slow process of trying it out for a period, taking the blood tests, and adjusting as needed. Not only based on the numbers, but on you how you feel. A number that has avoiding side effects is the sweet spot, not some arbitrary number that's supposed to apply to everyone. Again, I'm not the biggest expert, but I'd double down on kelkel's bet that so much AI is probably the main culprit.

I'd be interested to know your Sensitive Estradiol numbers right now before you start TRT. There are a ton of factors, but compare those to whatever you end up with when you start sweating and itching. Again, I'm not an expert but that's something I'm curious about.

My own protocol just to give you an idea:
-twice weekly test shots
-lower dose than .25mg anastrazole, twice a week the day after test injections
-three 400-IU HCG, or six 200-IU HCG shots weekly (I believe I'm dosed on the higher end)