Associate Member
Does anybody no how to lower DHT. My TRT doctor wants to take Finasteride to stop the conversion from Test to DHT. All I ever hear is how bad that drug is. So is there another way. He actually lowered the Test amount 20mg but the DHT actually came back higher after lowering Test.
Knowledgeable Member
Why do want to lower? Post your actual bloodwork, that's what matters. Also lay out what your TRT protocol is.Originally Posted by joebailey1271
Member
Are you suffering from Male Pattern Baldness or enlarged prostate?
If so, then perhaps some lifestyle changes are in order and not lowering a hormone that the Male body needs.
Associate Member
DHT range is 16-79
10/20/16 it was 152
2/15/16 it was 82
He decreased the amount of Test to 180mg, and the DHT increased. My total Test was 945 after 4 days, I only do 1 shot a week. I actually feel better with the one shot a week, It seems easier to control the E2.
Test 180mg weekly
Anastrozol 0.5mg per week
HCG 250 units twice a week, the Doctor actually wants me to take 500 units twice a week. I did that for a while but it just seem to cause nipple sensitivity.
Associate Member
I'm actually starting to wonder if the conversion of Test to DHT is the reason that when I take the Test at 200mg, the level is only 1200 while most guys are above 1500.
Hair, I always have had crappy hair, been slowly going bald since I was 18. The prostate is normal, my PSA was 0.7.
Associate Member
The doctor did mention there is vitamins or something his clinic of course sales, prostate support. He said I could try that before taking the finasteride.
Knowledgeable Member
250 IU twice weekly are plenty. Going higher will cause your E2 to spike uncontrollably, hence the nipple sensitivity. DHT also is released by the testes. If you pulled bloods while on 1000IU weekly that is a potential reason for increased DHT.
DHT is responsible for many of the benefits of TRT. Frankly I don't understand your doc crusade against it, fina is a drug I won't ever touch with a stick.
What is your age?
Member
Sorry ,I totally missed that you were on TRT. My Mistake. As far as lowering Dht,
there are several natural methods of blocking alpha 5 reductase.
Although on Trt,I doubt they will do much.
Its worth a shot though of incorporating all these foods .
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2752973/
avocados
coconut oil,
green teas,
lycopene,
zinc,
Member
But reading about your psa and your already bald,
I wouldnt worry about the conversion. As Bizzarro said, Dht has its benefits and as long as they are not causing problems,then I wouldnt worry. Yes you are right,the conversion to DHT as well as the amount of Free T(BIOAVIAL) do affect total T.
Why isnt he testing Bioavail as well?
Associate Member
I'm 42.
He said he wants it in range because the high DHT level will eventually cause the prostate to grow. Yea I know what you mean about Finast. All I hear is bad things about it, nothing really reportable good about that drug.
Knowledgeable Member
I can vouch for the Zn.
When I had Zn deficiency my TRT provided much greater response in terms of muscular hardness, hair growth, confidence, and erections. Since I started supplementing I quickly developed low T symptoms again.
I take very little Zn, ie. 7.5mg of citrate daily. It's a wonder how it affects me that much.
Associate Member
The free T was 32, normal for Quest lab is up to 28, My SHBG is low at 9, normal is 10-50
Knowledgeable Member
See above.
Try anywhere between 30-50mg of Zn daily.
Associate Member
This doctor test for everything, He even does CRP and CRP HS
Knowledgeable Member
Ranges for SHBG are bogus. Even if you fall our of range it isn't a condition in itself, though it can potentially signals other issues.
Do you have diabetes/insulin resistance? Low SHBG is associated with it.
Member
That's ng/dl correct?
How long has the DHT been high? I understand the concern with the doc,but if it's been a while now and the prostate hasn't been affected yet, there's a chance it might not even respond. The receptors sensitivity might not be high(which is good of course) . I would not worry about the DHT until you and the doc see a problem with your prostate. But thats just what I would do.
Anabolic Member
Tens of millions men take finasteride, chances are you will take it too someday. Internet is full anedoctal remarks about it, most from guys worried about hair loss at 20 years old when their hormones have not yet matured.
5alpha inhibitors are the only way to reduce DHT, of course together with testosterone reduction if you on TRT. I say reduction not crashing of DHT levels, dosage needs to be low so DHT doesnt crash. If you dont crash DHT levels you shouldnt have any side effects.
I have been taking finasteride for years, my DHT was on top of the range (0,9 ng/ml) even when I wasn't doing any steroids, 1mg a day put me a 0,4 ng/ml and feeling fine. Nowadays I use it mostly when I cycle.
Lowering DHT will also give you for a bit more free testosterone.
Doctors tend to use the 5mg ed dosage, which is the normal therapeutic dosage for prostate benign hyperplasia, IMO this dosage will crash DHT in most men, which is the objective of the treatment. Cut the pill into quarters, or even take a quarter eod, finasteride has a long half life can easily be taken eod, and then do some bloodwork to check dht level adjusting the dosage to your desired level (inside range).
Junior Member
Have you experienced any libido issues on finasteride? And if so how did you mitigate them? My friend used finasteride and said he had libido issues.. I wanna use it because hair loss runs in my family but I don't want to be limp
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
BB and I have spoken about this in depth when this issue first arose with me. When my psa spiked I went on Fina at 5 mgs after a 3T MRI cleared me. Fina brought my psa back down to normal with zero issues. When it comes to DHT mine is now hovering between 12-22 on Labcorps range of 30 - 85. I've been testing it monthly and experimenting a bit. Tren, as expected had no impact on my psa. After some BW in early december I'll probably ramp up my test dose to see how it handles an elevated level. Anecdotally the test amount should not matter as the Fina should do its job regardless of the dose. We'll see.
And many guys without question talk themselves right into erectile issues...
-*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-
Anabolic Member
No libido issues what so ever. What was your friend DHT level before and during treatment? How old are you?
Absolute truth!
Junior Member
I'm 24 (I haven't even touched juice yet and my hair is thinning/receding) my friend is also 24 I don't think he checked his DHT levels nor have I checked mine
Knowledgeable Member
I believe I can talk myself into it quite a bit.
My PSA rose to 7.5 in February and went down on its own in about a month... it was 1.5 at the time of low T diagnosis and 0.5 after starting TRT.
In September, if you recall my bw, DHT levels landed at 80 ng/dl, high end of range. I haven't had an erection in months, except for a single occasion were I used proviron, my scalp hair has been re-growing, body/facial hair halted, libido totally crushed.
My SHBG was also high-ish at the time (it has always been) - 45 nmol/l. Total T was above readable range.
It's a wonder how virilization from androgens was lacking at those levels. Well, ever since managing to decrease that SHBG I got everything back - adult type body odour, hair growth, woods and even an hint of libido. I have also been having estro issues that forced me to cut back TRT dose, now I'm at 50mg 2x weekly.
Supposedly, free T levels were already elevated, but what about available DHT? Due to high affinity with SHBG and lower blood levels it's legit to expect most of it to be bound up. Dialing down SHBG must have freed it a bit, hence the virilization effect.
I don't have another explanation (pls don't tell me I'm one special snowflake).
Imo whether fina will impact libido and erections it's a matter of individuality, and one should try for himself, but honestly I don't see the case with OP to stack a drug w/o a valid reason.
Anabolic Member
Remember discussing this Biz, and at the time told the T/dht ratio was a bit off, if you compare to the OP values here, he produces a lot more dht from less test.
Also about proviron your protocol was very short and very low quantity, 50mg ed if I remember correctly.
My opinion again is to try a high proviron for significant amount of time.
Free dht test is expensive and not very used, but it might reveal something.
Knowledgeable Member
I don't need to try it again anymore, that was the point.
Anabolic Member
Why? You find your diagnostic conclusive?
Hows your libido now?
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
I hear no two are the same.....
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Knowledgeable Member
I'm not sure what you mean by that, it wasn't diagnostic, my goal was to reduce SHBG, and since the 10mg winstrol achieved it with success there is no need for proviron.
I already told you I consider it a useless and also expensive drug, 50mg cost more than my daily quota for TRT. Even if I wanted massive SHBG binding, there are cheaper and more effective alternatives.
About libido it comes and go, and so do morning woods, I guess I'm around a positive DHT/E2 ratio; the thing is promising, but sides have become prominent, I'm writing this with effort because I've been hitted with some serious lethargy lately, and I don't know where it's from. I haven't been feeling like this since being hypothyroid.
The other sides are in fact reminiscing of hypothyroidism, the paraesthesias got noticeably worse, cold extremities, even claudication in the lower legs, can't train at all. It looks like poor peripheral circulation. But, my TSH was zero last time I checked (from T3). I'm not sure whether the Tren and winstrol combined affected the concentrations of thyroid hormones but I'm dubious they did to this extent, might try to bump the LT4 back to 150, however even if it works it might only mask the problem. I've also gained 4Kg (9-10lbs) of water in the last two weeks.
Sometimes I feel like I'm better off TRT and should look into female hormones only instead.
Indeed, well said.
Anabolic Member
Great. Just trying to help. If you feel good/better guess you on the right track.I'm not sure what you mean by that, it wasn't diagnostic, my goal was to reduce SHBG, and since the 10mg winstrol achieved it with success there is no need for proviron.
I already told you I consider it a useless and also expensive drug, 50mg cost more than my daily quota for TRT. Even if I wanted massive SHBG binding, there are cheaper and more effective alternatives.
About libido it comes and go, and so do morning woods, I guess I'm around a positive DHT/E2 ratio; the thing is promising, but sides have become prominent, I'm writing this with effort because I've been hitted with some serious lethargy lately, and I don't know where it's from. I haven't been feeling like this since being hypothyroid.
The other sides are in fact reminiscing of hypothyroidism, the paraesthesias got noticeably worse, cold extremities, even claudication in the lower legs, can't train at all. It looks like poor peripheral circulation. But, my TSH was zero last time I checked (from T3). I'm not sure whether the Tren and winstrol combined affected the concentrations of thyroid hormones but I'm dubious they did to this extent, might try to bump the LT4 back to 150, however even if it works it might only mask the problem. I've also gained 4Kg (9-10lbs) of water in the last two weeks.
Sometimes I feel like I'm better off TRT and should look into female hormones only instead.
The thing about stanozolol and proviron is that in my opinion proviron is more sustainable in the long run. Again just my opinion.
Knowledgeable Member
Well I was hesitant about putting anything toxic into my system, but there is clinical research showing relative safeness over long term, coupled with extreme effectiveness - 50% reduction is achieved in less than a week in healthy patient.
What I think is that due to chronic high SHBG the estrogen got dominant and as a result the AR has been severely down-regulated. That means every time T is introduced the system responds much more to the E2 than T, and sides develop. Hell, just look at my experience with Tren - the progesterone-like action is predominant.
If I manage to keep enough DHT available on tissues and E2 in check, over time the balance might shift toward the AR and perhaps TRT might be effective for me by then. It will require some time, but if this fails, frankly I don't know what to do anymore.
Associate Member
I've taken Proscar for a few years then changed over to Avodart after that, have been on it combined for 12 years so far strictly for hair loss. I regret not going on it sooner to prevent hair loss probably would of saved more hair . But it's helped a lot, no side effects, I'm certain without it I would be a lot balder.
Anabolic Member
Back to OP... To me prostate health and the few surviving hairs I got left are valid enough reasons
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