Sore nips advice (on Letro)

[mikeymikeuk]

Hey guys, I'm usually just lurking in the background but could do with some help.

I ran a cutting cycle up the end of Sept for 12 weeks (Mast, Test Prop, Win & Var)

Then PCT was HCG a few days after the last jab. Then Nolva (2 ED for 15 days, 1 ED for 15 days) and Clomid (2 ED for 10 days, 1 ED for 10 days). A few weeks after my nips started feeling sore, then lumps starting developing.

I tried Arimidex and Tamoxifen for a week, no change.

I was due to go back on my next cycle so started that (Test and EQ) along with Letro and Tamofixen. Nips calmed down a lot, but after 3 weeks of Letro they're still an issue - a lot less than before I started taking Letro so it's helped massively just not get rid of it yet.

I know Letro is harsh so would like to stop it as soon as possible. Is 3 weeks enough? Too much? What are my options?

Any advice would be appreciated.

[numbere]

Letro is an AI and will do nothing to reverse gyno.

You need a SERM to treat gyno, either nolvadex or raloxifene.

Gyno can take anywhere from a few weeks to over 9 months to treat depending how fibrous your lumps have become.

You would benefit form having blood work done when you cycle because if your estrogen is properly controlled with an AI you won't be getting gyno.

The negative health effects associated with high estrogen are far greater than gyno.

Stop Using Aromatase Inhibitors to Reverse gynecomastia! SERM's Only!

[mikeymikeuk]

Interesting, thanks for the info.

So from reading that I should up the Tamoxifen and drop the Letro? Always been a bit old school and thought Letro was the best/only option.

I had blood work done recently... (about a week after my last cycle).

TESTOSTERONE 12.69 nmol/L
17-BETA OESTRADIOL 68.64 pmol/L

I'm 3 weeks into my current cycle... from your message you'd suggest an Estrogen test now?

[numbere]

You should definitely resume taking tamoxifen.

Personally I'd wait a few more weeks until you get your AI dosage straightened out before having labs.

What's your current cycle dosages?

Do you have any other AIs besides letro?

Were you taking an AI previously on cycle and if so what dose?

[mikeymikeuk]

I'm currently taking 1 Tamoxifen and 1 Letro ED.

I'm taking 1ml Test E and 0.6ml of EQ EOD - about 3-4 weeks in.

Yeh, Arimidex has been my go to - tend to take it all the way through a cycle. I think I have some left in the cupboard.

Thanks for your help so far!

[numbere]

I'm currently taking 1 Tamoxifen and 1 Letro ED.

I'm taking 1ml Test E and 0.6ml of EQ EOD - about 3-4 weeks in.

Yeh, Arimidex has been my go to - tend to take it all the way through a cycle. I think I have some left in the cupboard.

Thanks for your help so far!

Doses of AAS and ancillaries are measured in mg, speaking in ml is too general.

Regardless, drop the letro and take tamox until your lumps are gone.

Start taking you arimidex.

I'm assuming you take somewhere between 0.25-0.5mg/EOD of dex.

Then in about 3-4 weeks have blood work that includes a sensitive estradiol assay.

[mikeymikeuk]

Sorry... EQ 150mg EOD, Test E 200mg EOD.

Let me get this right... your suggestion is;

Up the Tamox x 2 ED (for a week) then 1 ED (if symptoms subside).
Add in Arimidex EOD?

[numbere]

Sorry... EQ 150mg EOD, Test E 200mg EOD.

Let me get this right... you're suggestion is;

Up the Tamox x 2 ED (for a week) then 1 ED (if symptoms subside).
Add in Arimidex EOD?

How many mg are in one tablet of your tamox?

You need to take either tamox or ralox every day until your gyno subsides.

An aromatase inhibitor (AI) controls the amount of active aromatase which in turn controls the amount of test converted to estrogen.

Gyno is a result of elevated estrogen.

If you keep e2 within range, by taking an AI on cycle, then you won't get gyno.

So yes, you should take dex EOD the whole time you are on cycle up until PCT.

[mikeymikeuk]

20mg in my Tamoxifen. I've been doing 1 ED with the Letro.

I'll check the mg of my dex.

Thanks for all your help man! I was worried I was heading for the surgery route.

[numbere]

20mg in my Tamoxifen. I've been doing 1 ED with the Letro.

I'll check the mg of my dex.

Thanks for all your help man! I was worried I was heading for the surgery route.

No problem buddy.

Take 40mg/ED of tamox for a week then 10-20mg/ED until your lumps go away.

[mikeymikeuk]

Duplicate post, sorry.

[mikeymikeuk]

No problem buddy.

Take 40mg/ED of tamox for a week then 10-20mg/ED until your lumps go away.

Ok. My arimidex is 1mg tabs.

Tamoxifen is 20mg.

And I've got clomid at 50mg.

[numbere]

Dude, be patient.

There's no need to blow up my inbox.

Believe it or not I have a life outside of this forum.

You can pin test e and EQ as often as you like but you only lyrics need to pin them twice a week or every three days for the same effects.

Imo take 0.5mg/EOD of dex then have bw half way through your cycle and increase or decrease your AI based on the results.

Be sure to have a sensitive estradiol assay and CBC when testing.

[kelkel]

Believe it or not I have a life outside of this forum.

Nope, don't believe it.

[numbere]

Damn Kel, you caught me in another lie.

[kelkel]

Damn Kel, you caught me in another lie.

Apologies. I just get tired of suffering alone.

[mikeymikeuk]

Dude, be patient.

There's no need to blow up my inbox.

Believe it or not I have a life outside of this forum.

You can pin test e and EQ as often as you like but you only lyrics need to pin them twice a week or every three days for the same effects.

Imo take 0.5mg/EOD of dex then have bw half way through your cycle and increase or decrease your AI based on the results.

Be sure to have a sensitive estradiol assay and CBC when testing.

Top man! Thanks.

What's CBC?

My sent items says 0 so wasn't sure if it had gone. Sorry dude.

[numbere]

It's cool buddy.

Your outbox reads zero because there's a glitch in the system.

Technically new members shouldn't be able to send PMs until they've reached 50 posts.

CBC is an abbreviation for Complete Blood Count.

AAS increase the amount of red blood cells in your blood.

Some AAS increase RBC more than others, e.g. EQ.

Due to this it's important to have a CBC assay mid cycle to check you hematocrit.

HCT measures the thickness of you blood.

Having HCT of 55% or over is dangerous and the only way to make it lower is to donate blood.

[mikeymikeuk]

Hey,

Just an update. Did 1 week of 40mg/ed of tamoxifen.

Now down to 20mg/ed. Also on 0.5mg eod of dex.

Not noticed much improvement yet but reading that link says you need to be patient. I'm not sure if it's in my head but it worse the day after jabbing and worse in the evening.

[numbere]

Hey,

Just an update. Did 1 week of 40mg/ed of tamoxifen.

Now down to 20mg/ed. Also on 0.5mg eod of dex.

Not noticed much improvement yet but reading that link says you need to be patient. I'm not sure if it's in my head but it worse the day after jabbing and worse in the evening.

You definitely need to be patient.

The longer you've had gyno the longer it takes for SERM therapy.

I've had flare ups a few times and the lumps do seem to change size and firmness throughout the day.

This is likely because our hormones are constantly in flux throughout the day.

It's best if you set an alarm on your phone so that you don't forget to take your SERM because if you're still on cycle or blast there is a noticeable difference if you skip a day.

[Mr.BB]

About the bloodwork, as far as I know, he will not find sensitive estradiol assay in the UK (or anywhere in europe).

[mikeymikeuk]

You definitely need to be patient.

The longer you've had gyno the longer it takes for SERM therapy.

I've had flare ups a few times and the lumps do seem to change size and firmness throughout the day.

This is likely because our hormones are constantly in flux throughout the day.

It's best if you set an alarm on your phone so that you don't forget to take your SERM because if you're still on cycle or blast there is a noticeable difference if you skip a day.

Thanks man. Goes without saying, but I'll keep on it. FYI - I'm about 5 weeks into a 16 week cycle.

[mikeymikeuk]

About the bloodwork, as far as I know, he will not find sensitive estradiol assay in the UK (or anywhere in europe).

This is what I usually get - https://www.medichecks.com/find-a-te...ne-Check_30XX/

[numbere]

About the bloodwork, as far as I know, he will not find sensitive estradiol assay in the UK (or anywhere in europe).

That's unfortunate but the data PO gets for $85 is a great deal.

[mikeymikeuk]

I'm probably reading to much on Dr Google... information overload, that I've made gay of actually got things wrong but ...

Sore nips/lumps are a sign of high estrogen but my sex drive is currently pretty low - which is low estrogen? Is that right or have I got it wrong...

[numbere]

I'm probably reading to much on Dr Google... information overload, that I've made gay of actually got things wrong but ...

Sore nips/lumps are a sign of high estrogen but my sex drive is currently pretty low - which is low estrogen? Is that right or have I got it wrong...

Could be an estrogen problem.

Could be a test problem.

Could be a dht problem.

Could be a prolactin problem.

Could be all in your head.

Could be a mixture of two or more of the above possibilities.

The only way to know for sure is bw.

[mikeymikeuk]

Could be an estrogen problem.

Could be a test problem.

Could be a dht problem.

Could be a prolactin problem.

Could be all in your head.

Could be a mixture of two or more of the above possibilities.

The only way to know for sure is bw.

The only company I found (and used) in the UK are these - https://www.medichecks.com/find-a-te...ne-Check_30XX/ - although it's missing the DHT and Prolactin.

They can do it as separate tests though.

As Mr.BB said, I can't find Sensitive E2 Assay in the UK.

Any advice appreciated (I think I owe you a drink... or a shake)!

[numbere]

Any advice appreciated (I think I owe you a drink... or a shake)!

Thanks lol I'm just happy to help.

Have you considered seeing a specialist like a urologist or endocrinologist?

[mikeymikeuk]

Can't say I have to be honest mate.

Want to try and keep AAS off my medical record. Hence, private BW.

If I go down the BW route, which ones do I need checked in particular for my nips/low sex drive?

[numbere]

Can't say I have to be honest mate.

Want to try and keep AAS off my medical record. Hence, private BW.

If I go down the BW route, which ones do I need checked in particular for my nips/low sex drive?

If I were in your position I'd get the lab in post #27.

Post the results and we'll go from there.

What exactly is your libido issue?

e.g. Lack of sex drive, ED, etc.?

[mikeymikeuk]

Without the Prolactin and DHT? Or add them on?

Lack of sex drive really. I'm OK once I get started, lol.

[numbere]

Without the Prolactin and DHT? Or add them on?

Lack of sex drive really. I'm OK once I get started, lol.

I'd skip the PRL and dht right now.

No offense but the most likely case is the the libido is in your head.

There's times on cycle when my drive drops.

[mikeymikeuk]

I'd skip the PRL and dht right now.

No offense but the most likely case is the the libido is in your head.

There's times on cycle when my drive drops.

Hey man. Got my testing kit, when is the best time to take my blood around my eq/test e?

[mikeymikeuk]

I'd skip the PRL and dht right now.

No offense but the most likely case is the the libido is in your head.

There's times on cycle when my drive drops.

Hey man, I've got the BW...

TESTOSTERONE *229.6 nmol/L Range: 7.60 - 31.40
17-BETA OESTRADIOL 78.68 pmol/L Range: 0.00 - 191.99


I've got a load of other results too, but not sure what you need to see to advise...

[Men in Black]

Letro is an AI and will do nothing to reverse gyno.

You need a SERM to treat gyno, either nolvadex or raloxifene.

Gyno can take anywhere from a few weeks to over 9 months to treat depending how fibrous your lumps have become.

You would benefit form having blood work done when you cycle because if your estrogen is properly controlled with an AI you won't be getting gyno.

The negative health effects associated with high estrogen are far greater than gyno.

Stop Using Aromatase Inhibitors to Reverse gynecomastia! SERM's Only!

people report an estrogen rebound after stopping nolva or ralo

thoughts on that?

[NACH3]

people report an estrogen rebound after stopping nolva or ralo

thoughts on that?

It's a SERM... not an anti estrogen!

You want to run SERMs for gyno and control E2 with AI!
If you catch the gyno in time it can be reversed... but it may take months of continuous use...

Ralox frontloaded at 120mgs first wk/daily then 60-80mgs thereafter in hopes of reversal... tamoxifen(nolva) take 20mgs first wk then 10mgs thereafter I've done better with nolva even though science has said ralox is stronger at binding to the breast tissue!

If your running a 19nor(nandrolone or Tren)? If so are you running a DA?(caber or prami?? If not it could be progestenic sides!

[mikeymikeuk]

If your running a 19nor(nandrolone or Tren)? If so are you running a DA?(caber or prami?? If not it could be progestenic sides!

I wasn't, but the last 2 weeks I've added in NPP. So the sore nips came before the NPP...

[Men in Black]

It's a SERM... not an anti estrogen!

You want to run SERMs for gyno and control E2 with AI!
If you catch the gyno in time it can be reversed... but it may take months of continuous use...

Ralox frontloaded at 120mgs first wk/daily then 60-80mgs thereafter in hopes of reversal... tamoxifen(nolva) take 20mgs first wk then 10mgs thereafter I've done better with nolva even though science has said ralox is stronger at binding to the breast tissue!

If your running a 19nor(nandrolone or Tren)? If so are you running a DA?(caber or prami?? If not it could be progestenic sides!

what about pubertal gyno?