5th cycle planning advice

[gorog25]

Firtst of all Happy New Year Everyone!

Hello Guys,

This will be my fifth cycle and the longest one so I need some advice to plan it properly.
I have experience with Test E, Dbol, Tren A, Test Prop and Masteron. No sides what so ever no estrogenic problem.

Stats:
Age 35
Male
LBM 83kg
Height 183cm or 6 foot

The highest dosage was 750ml test E, 50mg ED Dbol (tablets) 100mg EOD Tren A, 100mg ED Test Prop, 150mg EOD Mast

I would like a 6 week bulking phase than switch to a 6-8 weeks cutting phase so I looking to plan a 12-14 weeks’ cycle.

I have Gensa’s liquid Dbol and Test E already together with Arimidex, Clomid, Caber and N-Acetyl-Cysteine for liver protection.

I loved my last cycle with Tren so from week five I thinking to start Tren and also start Winstrol on the last few weeks.

So the cycle would look like this:
1-14 Test E
1-5 Dbol 1-2 50mg ED 2-5 75mg ED
5-12 Tren A
8-14 Winstrol
1-16 HCG 250UI 2x
5-12 Caber 0.5mg
1-20 NAC 600mg

PCT-from week 16 to 20
Clomid 100/75/50/50/week
Nolva 60/40/40/20/week

I have not put dosage after some substance for a reason.

Questions:

Is Winstrol a good idea?
Is there any better?
Should I use liquid or tablet form?
What would be the proper dosage?
Should I increase the N-acetyl-Cysteine dosage because of the two hepatotoxic aa?
How to properly dose Test E and Tren A in this cycle?

I read somewhere lowering test and increasing tren on a cutting phase gives better results. However, after 8 weeks our body adapts so test need to be increased after 8 weeks any way.

How can I work this out?
Is the PCT good enough?

[songdog]

Either cut or bulk and longer isn't better.Pick which one you want to due and due it too the best of your ability.Trying to due both one or both are going to suffer its a fine line bro.

[numbere]

I don't mean to be rude but how do you only weigh 180lb at 6' after 5 cycles?

[songdog]

Good point numbere I hate that metric stuff.

[numbere]

Good point numbere I hate that metric stuff.

The SI system is a huge pain in the butt at first but if you use it enough it's soon much easier then English units.

Kind of like eating above maintenance calories lol.

[gorog25]

Well, precisely aftyer 4 cycle ..

It is a long story mate

Unfortunately straight after my cycles there was always some issues with my helth with my private life and with the law so newer had an optipn to maintain calorie intake and traning rutine and you know 2-3 months off after cycle put you back easily.

by the way 180 lb is the Lean Body Mass wich is a rough estimate. I have not done the proper measurment yet.

[gorog25]

From now on I will convert everything just to make you happy

[Euroholic]

Americans hahaha why do you hate it so much? Can land on the moon,have more aircraft carriers then all nations combined but is Only one of 3 nations with out metric system? Liberia and Myanmar being the others.

[songdog]

You need to rely more on your diet and use less gear.We all have had problems at one time or another bro.180 is for a much smaller guy.

[Euroholic]

Water freezes at 0 and boils at 100

[Back In Black]

Water freezes at 0 and boils at 100

That would depend on your elevation!

[numbere]

Americans hahaha why do you hate it so much? Can land on the moon,have more aircraft carriers then all nations combined but is Only one of 3 nations with out metric system? Liberia and Myanmar being the others.

The computers on all are spacecrafts are programmed in SI units but the data displayed to astronauts is in English units.

Engineers on the ground need data in both SI and English units.

The whole world uses English units because all atmospheric flight even international flight uses English units.

Sometime in 2023 space shuttle Orion will launch and be our first shuttle to use solely SI units.

We're catching up to the rest of the world slowly lol.

[numbere]

Well, precisely aftyer 4 cycle ..

It is a long story mate

Unfortunately straight after my cycles there was always some issues with my helth with my private life and with the law so newer had an optipn to maintain calorie intake and traning rutine and you know 2-3 months off after cycle put you back easily.

by the way 180 lb is the Lean Body Mass wich is a rough estimate. I have not done the proper measurment yet.

Hey buddy you're an adult and can cycle at whatever weight and body fat that makes you feel comfortable.

I only wanted to point out that at your height you should be able to reach 200lb 15% naturally, and if you're not there then your diet/training is likely not up to par.

You can run whatever compounds for as long as you like but they will not make up for large deficiencies in diet.

[gorog25]

Well I agree with you, but I have a limited time to achive my goals and extending the length of the cycle is acceptabe risc to take. Howerver, if no one ansvers my questions I will have no chance to do it properly, so I might have to stick to your advice songdog

[numbere]

Well I agree with you, but I have a limited time to achive my goals and extending the length of the cycle is acceptabe risc to take. Howerver, if no one ansvers my questions I will have no chance to do it properly, so I might have to stick to your advice songdog

Well I agree with you, but I have a limited time to achive my goals and extending the length of the cycle is acceptabe risc to take. Howerver, if no one ansvers my questions I will have no chance to do it properly, so I might have to stick to your advice songdog

All answer your questions after I make two points.

Based on your stats bulking for 6 weeks and then cutting for 6 weeks is a waste of a cycle.

Again, you can weight much more naturally. This means you don't need to use anything other than test, maybe test plus an oral, for amazing results.
...

Is Winstrol a good idea?
You don't need winny to meet your goals at this point.

Is there any better?
I don't understand this question.

Should I use liquid or tablet form?
If your referring to AIs and SERMs then you should use pharmacy grade or generic pharmacy grade.

What would be the proper dosage?
I don't understand this question.

Should I increase the N-acetyl-Cysteine dosage because of the two hepatotoxic aa?
The general rule of thumb for NAC dose is 600mg off cycle, 1200mg on cycle and 1800-2400+ when adding orals.

How to properly dose Test E and Tren A in this cycle?
Not to be rude but you shouldn't be using compounds if you don't know how much to take.

[songdog]

Get your diet fixed then run 500mg test and run 30mg Dbol leave the tren alone.But if your diet isnt right it's all for nothing.

[gorog25]

You need to rely more on your diet and use less gear.We all have had problems at one time or another bro.180 is for a much smaller guy.

I know diet is the key, but I got problems with carbs. A Huge problem.
I eat roughly 100-150 kcals carbs a day and if increase it to a required amount I just cannot eat it without being on a gear.
I talk about proper carbs not those mas building shakes full of sugary substances.

I am on a LCHF diet what I do not want to change. Gear helping me gain muscle mass on this diet vert well.

The results are not the same naturally you all know that. Controlling fat gain is much easier with a proper aa.
After someone tried train on a gear is really hard try to achieve close results naturally. It sad to say, but I become kind of dependant.

I know songdog you do not like tren anyway, but I really love it results it is the best stuff so far I experienced for lean bulking.

[gorog25]

All answer your questions after I make two points.

Based on your stats bulking for 6 weeks and then cutting for 6 weeks is a waste of a cycle.

Again, you can weight much more naturally. This means you don't need to use anything other than test, maybe test plus an oral, for amazing results.
...

Is Winstrol a good idea?
You don't need winny to meet your goals at this point.

Is there any better?
I don't understand this question.

Should I use liquid or tablet form?
If your referring to AIs and SERMs then you should use pharmacy grade or generic pharmacy grade.

What would be the proper dosage?
I don't understand this question.

Should I increase the N-acetyl-Cysteine dosage because of the two hepatotoxic aa?
The general rule of thumb for NAC dose is 600mg off cycle, 1200mg on cycle and 1800-2400+ when adding orals.

How to properly dose Test E and Tren A in this cycle?
Not to be rude but you shouldn't be using compounds if you don't know how much to take.

According to my plan Winstrol would give the “finishing touches” on my body the end of the cycle. It would also help controlling estrogen and prevent muscle waste.

The following two questions was related to the 4 th compound in my planned cycle. Is there any other aa should I consider to promote estrogen control and prevent muscle waste? If so, what would you prefer? What would be the right amount?

For NAC you give me very good advice actually I did not know I should triple the dose on a cycle. I used to have 600mg two times. So thank you for that.

About test and tren. Well, on a normal 8 weeks cycle I would not have a problem. I would just pick one of the theories out there and give it a try
Last cycle was week
1-8 100mg test prop EOD
1-2 50mg tren a EOD
2-3 75mg tren a EOD
3-6100mg tren a EOD
4-8100mg Masteron EOD
Please allow me not mention PCT at this point.

As I mentioned I never had a 12-14 weeks cycle where the planning starts getting difficult. With test I would just double the dose for the remaining weeks, but tren would step in week 6 so I am not sure if I would need to increase test at this point. Many people claims if test and tren paired together tren should be dosed on a higher range. For example on a 8 weeks cycle 300mg test and 600mg tren is better option than 500mg test and 600mg tren.

I believe this cycle should give me at least 2.20462- 3.30693lbs or 1-1.5 kg (hell how easier is this) lean mass / week from week 1-9 and in general 5- 10% Bf reduction.

[kelkel]

No sides what so ever no estrogenic problem.

Does this mean you do not use an AI?

[numbere]

According to my plan Winstrol would give the “finishing touches” on my body the end of the cycle. It would also help controlling estrogen and prevent muscle waste.

The following two questions was related to the 4 th compound in my planned cycle. Is there any other aa should I consider to promote estrogen control and prevent muscle waste? If so, what would you prefer? What would be the right amount?

For NAC you give me very good advice actually I did not know I should triple the dose on a cycle. I used to have 600mg two times. So thank you for that.

About test and tren. Well, on a normal 8 weeks cycle I would not have a problem. I would just pick one of the theories out there and give it a try
Last cycle was week
1-8 100mg test prop EOD
1-2 50mg tren a EOD
2-3 75mg tren a EOD
3-6100mg tren a EOD
4-8100mg Masteron EOD
Please allow me not mention PCT at this point.

As I mentioned I never had a 12-14 weeks cycle where the planning starts getting difficult. With test I would just double the dose for the remaining weeks, but tren would step in week 6 so I am not sure if I would need to increase test at this point. Many people claims if test and tren paired together tren should be dosed on a higher range. For example on a 8 weeks cycle 300mg test and 600mg tren is better option than 500mg test and 600mg tren.

I believe this cycle should give me at least 2.20462- 3.30693lbs or 1-1.5 kg (hell how easier is this) lean mass / week from week 1-9 and in general 5- 10% Bf reduction.

All right you seem pretty adamant about this cycle so I'll help you with whatever you need.

You plan on running three compounds.

There's no need to add in a fourth just to prevent catabolism.

You don't need winny and imo 100mg EOD of mast is a waste of money.

The whole ratio of test:tren is BS.

It seems silly to me to shut your HTPA down for 9 weeks for two pounds of muscle and a 5 percent reduction in body fat.

Why not lose 5-10 percent body fat before cycling then use test plus an oral or test plus nandrolone to bulk and put on some actual muscle tissue?

[gorog25]

Does this mean you do not use an AI?

Yes correct. Last cycle I did not even open my arimidex box.

One thing I noticed my nipples was rock hard during exercise, but they hard sometimes even If I am not using gear.

[kelkel]

Yes correct. Last cycle I did not even open my arimidex box.

One thing I noticed my nipples was rock hard during exercise, but they hard sometimes even If I am not using gear.

Well, it's a mistake. Just because you do not get gyno does not mean you don't need an AI. The more damaging effects of elevated estrogen in men are internal, not externa. Always, always run an AI and control your estrogen.

[gorog25]

Well, it's a mistake. Just because you do not get gyno does not mean you don't need an AI. The more damaging effects of elevated estrogen in men are internal, not externa. Always, always run an AI and control your estrogen.

Thank you, got it. So AI should be supplied regulary even if not experiencing any sign of sides.
I will add it to the next cycle EOD.

[gorog25]

All right you seem pretty adamant about this cycle so I'll help you with whatever you need.

You plan on running three compounds.

There's no need to add in a fourth just to prevent catabolism.

You don't need winny and imo 100mg EOD of mast is a waste of money.

The whole ratio of test:tren is BS.

It seems silly to me to shut your HTPA down for 9 weeks for two pounds of muscle and a 5 percent reduction in body fat.

Why not lose 5-10 percent body fat before cycling then use test plus an oral or test plus nandrolone to bulk and put on some actual muscle tissue?

I would not say I am adamant, but I like considering many options before make decision.

Actually I’m shutting down my HTPA for MIIMUN 2 pounds muscle per week and MINIMUM 5%bf reduction.

The end result should be at least 18lb more LBM and 10% Bf on a 12-14 weeks cycle.

How long would it take naturally? Probably a lot more than that

You right Mast was a waste of money that is why I want to try Winstrol

Sorry I did not get this. “The whole ratio of test:tren is BS”

Losing some fat than start a bulking cycle would be another option, but as you mentioned already how little my body weight compared with my height. Can you imagine how stressful would be for me mentally to lose even more muscle until I achieve 10% bf naturally?


Even on strict ketogen diet I would end up around 170lb

I also do not like the ide of the Bulking only cycle

I know my body and If I find sometghing to bost up my apetite within a first six week I can put on lots of quality muscle

My idea to taking Winstrol about not just preventing muscle waste
It also helps reducing SHGB
It won’t effect estrogen and progestin so hopefully do not need to increase Ai and caber during cycle

Tren and mast actually worked well the end of my last cycle, but not as well as I expected so I thought Winstrol would be better option, but maybe I just need to increase the Ai during cycle at some point.
Honestly not sure what would be more beneficial.

[numbere]

I don't know what to tell you buddy.

I guess just do whatever you feel is best.

Everyone reacts slightly different to these hormones.

Saying that you need Y amount of test for X amount of tren is flawed thinking.

Lowering your shbg will have little effect on how you feel or the outcome of your cycle when your TT is 2500-3500 ng/dl.

[Capebuffalo]

Silly question but have you had any blood work done after any of your cycles?

[gorog25]

Silly question but have you had any blood work done after any of your cycles?

Yes my blod is on check regulary, due to some other issues. when I told my doc i am using gear She added the required tests to the request. Actually my appointments always 1-2 moths after PCT. no before and no during cycle.

[Deal Me In]

FWIW, I've tried the test/tren ration thing both ways and so no noticeable difference in gains. All I got were worse side effects from the higher tren dosage. Now I keep test higher and tren lower. This is just my personal experience from trying it both ways.

[gorog25]

FWIW, I've tried the test/tren ration thing both ways and so no noticeable difference in gains. All I got were worse side effects from the higher tren dosage. Now I keep test higher and tren lower. This is just my personal experience from trying it both ways.

Thanks for the input mate. Last cycle I had higer test lover tren ratio and It worked well with no tren sides at all. Probably I will contionue this way