Should I stop PCT?

[Macros]

I'm in my second week - taking Clomid (75/50/50/50) and nolva (40/20/20/20) and my eyes are bothering me and I know one of the side effects of these serms is vision problems/loss

What would happen if I stopped taking the drugs all together?

How long would you wait to cycle again without a proper PCT?

would dropping the dose in weeks 3&4 work - taking Clomid (75/50/25/25) and nolva (40/20/10/10) work instead of taking Clomid (75/50/50/50) and nolva (40/20/20/20)?

Looking for some advice. My last post on this topic only got two responses which was surprising that no one has brought up eye issues when on these drugs. If you do a google search "eye issues on PCT" many other forums have pretty good threads on the topic.

[numbere]

If you stop taking the SERMs all together then life will suck more than it does now.

If you cannot handle PCT drugs then you shouldn't cycle again.

As was mentioned in you last thread, drop the clomid dose down to 25mg/d and take it before bed.

If you're still having intolerable side effects from the lowered clomid dosage then drop the clomid and substitute with toremifene.

Torem 120/60/60/60
Nolva 40/20/20/20

[AR's King Silabolin]

I'm in my second week - taking Clomid (75/50/50/50) and nolva (40/20/20/20) and my eyes are bothering me and I know one of the side effects of these serms is vision problems/loss

What would happen if I stopped taking the drugs all together?

How long would you wait to cycle again without a proper PCT?

would dropping the dose in weeks 3&4 work - taking Clomid (75/50/25/25) and nolva (40/20/10/10) work instead of taking Clomid (75/50/50/50) and nolva (40/20/20/20)?

Looking for some advice. My last post on this topic only got two responses which was surprising that no one has brought up eye issues when on these drugs. If you do a google search "eye issues on PCT" many other forums have pretty good threads on the topic.

Pct are not that important. It does not speed up recovery. It only makes it a bit more pleasant. And u will not loose it all that fast.
Healthwize i stil strive to understand why its better for u.

[numbere]

Pct are not that important. It does not speed up recovery. It only makes it a bit more pleasant. And u will not loose it all that fast.
Healthwize i stil strive to understand why its better for u.

Based on what data?

[AR's King Silabolin]

Based on what data?

No data. Just norwegian thinking. Clomid and nolva do nothing for your hpta. It only force the hypho to make more lh and fsh. They do not teach it how to work again or to produce faster when they are gone.

And i guess everybody intuitevely understand that toping aas with more abuse of illegal female breastcancer medicin for another 6 weeks will not help your organs.

Low test is unhealthy but i guess the 5 weeks with faked high test in pct is no better in the long run.

But...drop pct and your gains disappear like a fart in the wind. That i agree on.

Yeah. One thing. Nolva betters cholestrol but there are safer ways to work on your hdl/ldl.

[numbere]

No data. Just norwegian thinking. Clomid and nolva do nothing for your hpta. It only force the hypho to make more lh and fsh. They do not teach it how to work again or to produce faster when they are gone.

No offense but your thinking is flawed.

I'd go into more detail but I don't believe it will further the conversation.

[AR's King Silabolin]

No offense but your thinking is flawed.

I'd go into more detail but I don't think it will further the conversation.

Marcus...ur back...help me on this one ok mate?

Luckily i dont know what flawed means but ill bet it isnt something to write home about.

[numbere]

Marcus...ur back...help me on this one ok mate?

Luckily i dont know what flawed means but ill bet it isnt something to write home about.

My bad man, I'm use to writing technical papers.

Flawed means in this situation means inaccurate or incorrect.

Hopefully the big guy will chime in and help you out.

[Macros]

I don't have any torem on hand so unfortunately that's not an option. What would be wrong with just taking a lower dose of both Clomid and nolva for weeks 3 & 4 such as Clomid (75/50/25/25) and nolva (40/20/10/10). I took 25 Clomid and 10 nolva today and I'm starting to feel better - no more twitching/bad feeling in my left eye. Both eyes are still very bloodshot and feel like they are dry/burning a bit.

I took a bunch of clomid before from the same exact package of pills for a re-start and had no issues. I'm thinking it's the nolva. The paper insert on the nolva package says it can cause eye issues as well.

Does torem cause eye issues?

[songdog]

[QUOTE=Silabolin;7247703]Pct are not that important. It does not speed up recovery. It only makes it a bit more pleasant. And u will not loose it all that fast.
Healthwize i stil strive to understand why its better for u.[/QUOTE Now if you have something worth while to add please do if not seek life else where.

[numbere]

Does torem cause eye issues?

I wouldn't advise you to take 120mg of a drug that caused eye issues of you were already having eye issues.

Clomid is better than toremifene at getting the pituitary to produce lh and fsh.

However, if clomid sides become unbearable then you can substitute clomid for thorem.

If you're feeling alright on 25mg of clomid then continue with that dose.

[AR's King Silabolin]

[QUOTE=songdog;7247749]

Pct are not that important. It does not speed up recovery. It only makes it a bit more pleasant. And u will not loose it all that fast.
Healthwize i stil strive to understand why its better for u.[/QUOTE Now if you have something worth while to add please do if not seek life else where.

10000 + post and stil struggling with layout...too much s4 there Dog?

[Obs]

I'm in my second week - taking Clomid (75/50/50/50) and nolva (40/20/20/20) and my eyes are bothering me and I know one of the side effects of these serms is vision problems/loss

What would happen if I stopped taking the drugs all together?

How long would you wait to cycle again without a proper PCT?

would dropping the dose in weeks 3&4 work - taking Clomid (75/50/25/25) and nolva (40/20/10/10) work instead of taking Clomid (75/50/50/50) and nolva (40/20/20/20)?

Looking for some advice. My last post on this topic only got two responses which was surprising that no one has brought up eye issues when on these drugs. If you do a google search "eye issues on PCT" many other forums have pretty good threads on the topic.

If you have taken it for two weeks and you came off a 500mg test e or c cycle, in which you used hcg, it honestly probably wont make much longer for you to be in the clear The shit should be out of your system 17 days after the last injection. If it was a heavy cycle you would be worse off. I hope the vision loss/problems warrant it, I get foggy vision sometimes too its a passing thing. Do not quit before day 17 of off time. I doubt your vision is bad enough to warrant it. If I was having your prob I would drop the nolva and then think about the clomid only if it persisted. Blurry vision now and again wont kill you. Then again neither will throwing the pct over your shoulder. As numbre said dont cycle again if you cant hack the serms. As Silabolin said it will affect the gains you keep if you drop out early. If its been 14 days, fuck the nolva its whats causing your vision problems and you aren't gonna get gyno after 14 days worth of pct off a 500 mg wk test cycle.

[Obs]

[QUOTE=Silabolin;7247958]

10000 + post and stil struggling with layout...too much s4 there Dog?

You are a cool guy songdog, this is funny shit tho! Lol

[Back In Black]

OP if you are really really struggling keep going with your nolva at 40/20/20/20 and lower your Clomid to 35mg. If still struggling drop your Clomid but keep your nolva going.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Beach bodybuilder...is that skinny fitness guys with awesome abs, v-shape but no size?

[Obs]

Beach bodybuilder...is that skinny fitness guys with awesome abs, v-shape but no size?

I think its biggish arms good abs nothing else

[Back In Black]

Beach bodybuilder...is that skinny fitness guys with awesome abs, v-shape but no size?

It means I'm not a fat cunt.

[numbere]

Beach bodybuilder...is that skinny fitness guys with awesome abs, v-shape but no size?

I think its biggish arms good abs nothing else

You guys are in a grey area with the ball busting.

I understand your only joking and BIB probably does also.

However, most of the people, especially new members, probably can't make that differentiation.

If everyone began speaking to staff in that way this forum would quickly lose order.

Please try and keep this type of talk in the Lounge.

There's nothing personal behind this post.

I'm only attempting to fill my role on the forum as a monitor and stop a situation before it snowballs.

[Obs]

You guys are in a grey area with the ball busting.

I understand your only joking and BIB probably does also.

However, most of the people, especially new members, probably can't make that differentiation.

If everyone began speaking to staff in that way this forum would quickly lose order.

Please try and keep this type of talk in the Lounge.

There's nothing personal behind this post.

I'm only attempting to fill my role on the forum as a monitor and stop a situation before it snowballs.

I didnt mean that at bib. I was answering a question of sils as far as I knew. See how dumb I am ? I literally had no idea what he was referencing. Sorry back in black.

[numbere]

I didnt mean that at bib. I was answering a question of sils as far as I knew. See how dumb I am ? I literally had no idea what he was referencing. Sorry back in black.

Oh now I understand what happened there, no harm no foul.

Just trying to keep the peace.

[Back In Black]

No offence taken. Especially not from the Norwegian Fat Man

[Macros]

Thanks for this advice. I might drop the 10 mg of nolva and just 25 mg of Clomid for the last two weeks. Is 25 too low for Clomid only - should I bump it back to 50 mgs if that's all I'll be taking?

[numbere]

Thanks for this advice. I might drop the 10 mg of nolva and just 25 mg of Clomid for the last two weeks. Is 25 too low for Clomid only - should I bump it back to 50 mgs if that's all I'll be taking?

Don't stop taking the nolvadex until PCT is finished.

Nolva does not cause vision problems.

25mg/d of clomid is sufficient to stimulate lh and fsh production.

That dose is often prescribed for fertility or TRT programs.

[Obs]

Don't stop taking the nolvadex until PCT is finished.

Nolva does not cause vision problems.

25mg/d of clomid is sufficient to stimulate lh and fsh production.

That dose is often prescribed for fertility or TRT programs.

https://www.aao.org/eyenet/article/w...t-cancer-drugs Wrong, any and all SERMS cause eye problems as the eye contains estrogen receptors. He is not gonna get gyno at this point. I would be more concerned with my testicular function personally. Nolva is over rated. I have performed cycles without it.

[Obs]

I TAKE THAT LAST PART BACK! I have performed cycles with very little of it.

[numbere]

https://www.aao.org/eyenet/article/w...t-cancer-drugs Wrong, any and all SERMS cause eye problems as the eye contains estrogen receptors. He is not gonna get gyno at this point. I would be more concerned with my testicular function personally. Nolva is over rated. I have performed cycles without it.

You linked me to a study were all the participants were women.

Nolvadex is not over rated.

Look, you can post whatever you want after this but I'm not going to respond because it's a waste of my time.

It's unfortunate if your ego was hurt.

My previous post had nothing to do with your previous post.

My presence in this thread was solely to help the OP.

[Obs]

You linked me to a study were all the participants were women.

Nolvadex is not over rated.

Look, you can post whatever you want after this but I'm not going to respond because it's a waste of my time.

It's unfortunate if your ego was hurt.

My previous post had nothing to do with your previous post.

My presence in this thread was solely to help the OP.

Mine too. I assure you though all SERMS CAN CAUSE VISION PROBLEMS. Im not after egos we just disagree. I still respect you and you know more than me about aas and the human body. Men have estrogen receptors in their eyes too. You are wrong on this one no offense. My personal rating of nolva is just opinion, the fact that nolva causes vision problems especially at high doses is proven fact. My ego about my intelligence left me a long time ago. You are a smart cat but even smart cats are wrong from time to time. Also once again to the op, it will pass. Reduce dosage at least.

[Mr.BB]

https://www.aao.org/eyenet/article/w...t-cancer-drugs Wrong, any and all SERMS cause eye problems as the eye contains estrogen receptors. He is not gonna get gyno at this point. I would be more concerned with my testicular function personally. Nolva is over rated. I have performed cycles without it.

Clomid is much more likely to give eye problems than tamoxifen.

I already told in different thread to OP reduce clomid to 25 and maintain tamox at 20mg. If eye problem still there after the reduction in clomid, next he should try to cut clomid and get some torem as Numb already advised.

[Obs]

Clomid is much more likely to give eye problems than tamoxifen.

I already told in different thread to OP reduce clomid to 25 and maintain tamox at 20mg. If eye problem still there after the reduction in clomid, next he should try to cut clomid and get some torem as Numb already advised.

I agree. Clomid is more likely and having two SERMS stacked up will increase the effects of occular toxicity. I want you smart guys to read this article. Nolva is not so.e godsend for men. If me or silabolin say it, it gets dismissed because we arent nerdy enough. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3493137/

[Mr.BB]

I agree. Clomid is more likely and having two SERMS stacked up will increase the effects of occular toxicity. I want you smart guys to read this article. Nolva is not so.e godsend for men. If me or silabolin say it, it gets dismissed because we arent nerdy enough. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3493137/

If you read correctly my post I said "is much more likely".

Would suggest e2 blood test for your extra sensitivity lol

[numbere]

Oh jeez this is still going on.

I read that study two years ago.

It's a retrospective cohort study.

This means it suffers from selection bias, information bias and many statics simply cannot be measured.

When you conduct a study with the sole intention of finding side effects you find a lot of side effects, even if they aren't statistically significant for the population at large.

The median age of participants 61 and the range was 30-79 years old.

That's not even close to the average age range that uses PCT.

The study doesn't say how much tamoxifen the patients were taking or how long they were taking the drug, but it was probably years.

A lot of those guys were in poor condition because 9 of the 64 died soon after stopping tamoxifen.

We have no idea if any of those 9 were of the in the group of 3 that suffered ocular events.

We have no idea if any of the patients were on other medications to try and prolong their life.

I believe I've read every scientific paper out on tamoxifen.

There was an Anelli study done in 1993 on the side effects of tamoxifen with 24 participants.

No ocular events were measured in the Anelli study.

The chance of a healthy individual having an ocular event from tamoxifen is less than one percent.

[Obs]

Oh jeez this is still going on.

I read that study two years ago.

It's a retrospective cohort study.

This means it suffers from selection bias, information bias and many statics simply cannot be measured.

When you conduct a study with the sole intention of finding side effects you find a lot of side effects, even if they aren't statistically significant for the population at large.

The median age of participants 61 and the range was 30-79 years old.

That's not even close to the average age range that uses PCT.

The study doesn't say how much tamoxifen the patients were taking or how long they were taking the drug, but it was probably years.

A lot of those guys were in poor condition because 9 of the 64 died soon after stopping tamoxifen.

We have no idea if any of those 9 were of the in the group of 3 that suffered ocular events.

We have no idea if any of the patients were on other medications to try and prolong their life.

I believe I've read every scientific paper out on tamoxifen.

There was an Anelli study done in 1993 on the side effects of tamoxifen with 24 participants.

No ocular events were measured in the Anelli study.

The chance of a healthy individual having an ocular event from tamoxifen is less than one percent.

I agree brother but tamoximed is bad for men. Plain and simple as silabolin said it is bad. Take as little as possible. One day soon this will be realized. I respect you completely bb. I have never shown you disrespect. I WISH YOU MONITORS WOULD PAINT ME AND SILABOLIN RED. We think outside the box but we don't just talk shit like you think.

[numbere]

I agree brother but tamoximed is bad for men. Plain and simple as silabolin said it is bad...

Your argument makes little sense.

It's not as simple as stating that tamoxifen is bad for men.

How is tamoxifen bad?

Now weigh your choices; Lose everything you gained on cycle and have low test for months, or take nolva/clomid for 4-6 weeks.

[Obs]

Your argument makes little sense.

It's not as simple as stating that tamoxifen is bad for men.

How is tamoxifen bad?

Now weigh your choices; Lose everything you gained on cycle and have low test for months, or take nolva/clomid for 4-6 weeks.

I agree numb. Get it? You will keep more gains on clomid than nolva. This is the spot we disagree. You are attacking I am defending here. I mean you no harm. You are sharp.

[Obs]

Tamoxifen is an estrogen destroying serm and it will fuck up sex drive for men. It is proven. Not always but look at the stats. A man needs a certain amount of estrogen to have a healthy sex drive. I am on a new phone to me I apologize for any misspellings etc.

[numbere]

I agree numb. Get it? You will keep more gains on clomid than nolva. This is the spot we disagree. You are attacking I am defending here. I mean you no harm. You are sharp.

I'm attacking you?

All I did was ask you a question.

I disagree that you will keep more gains on only clomid.

Nolva is a superior SERM.

[Obs]

I'm attacking you?

All I did was ask you a question.

I disagree that you will keep more gains on only clomid.

Nolva is a superior SERM.

You ND number are good bros I respect tbat. You all need to admit nolva is bad for men and men need to take as little as possible. I like you all too and at this point yall should like me.

[Obs]

That post is square. Idk why PCT is looked at like it is good for a man. PCT has adverse side effects. We all made this choice before we cycled. I respect you guys. One day you will respect my thoughts. This is some pure thoughts from experience. Stacked serms mess with my vision too. RESPECT, MEN.

[numbere]

If you can prove to me that nolva is bad for you then I'll agree, but saying it's bad because Silabolin said so doesn't carry much weight.

I do agree that you should take as little nolva as possible, I'd advise the same for any drug.

PCT is viewed as healthy because it's better than the alternative of doing nothing.