Associate Member
Probably been asked before I'm sure but need know.
I'm on the fence about another cycle given my last 2 cycles werent managed properly, didn't educate myself before taking what I did/didn't take and wasn't happy with the results post cycle.
So my question is, if I follow a proper cycle, including PCT, what can I expect to maintain in terms of size and strength gains once it's all said and done?
Last edited by jjsevens; 03-03-2017 at 08:56 AM.
Senior Member
I think there are too many variables to give a solid answer. how is your training and diet. can you stay motivated and consistent during pct and after cycle, what compounds you are using, etc. I would say some people keep it all and some people are smaller then they started 6 months later.
Productive Member
From what I've seen honestly. The only major gains I seen someone have on here isn't from like a 5 year blast of at least 1gram a week. No offense to anyone but I just don't see anything super in gains like I would expect from all the compounds people run. I guess i had visions of great noticeable mgains in mass and getting lean with a magic pill,and I'm sure there are and I just can't PRN dont see it since I'm on the computer. I'm waiting cuz i wonder if it's worth the risks to reward ratio . I guess some respond better then others. But it's mainly up to your diet and training I imagine.
Associate Member
Training and diet are on point. Been lifting/dieting for 2 years solid, I'm very regimented to maximize results with or without aas. If going on a cycle is going to add to my hard work and can keep it, then I'll go for it. I've cycled twice before but didn't educate myself, didn't know what I was doing and didn't get the results i thought I would, hence my question.Originally Posted by Nephets
I'm starting fresh, and considering this my first real cycle, so am going with the recommendation of the above stickie for first timers, look to #6, unfortunately because I'm a new member it won't let me post the specifics, saying it's spam lol
Anabolic Member
The main thing I see often to blame if someone isn't quit happy with results is failing to get their DIET right. Many fail to realize just how important proper nutrition is and many fail from simply under eating.
Associate Member
^^^^^^^^this.
Exactly why I'm asking, is it worth the risks if I'm not even going to keep it once it's all said and done even if I do everything right. I've done 2 bad cycles, looked great, put on some nice lean size, but most of it went away post pct. And why I question, was that because I didn't cycle properly, or is that just how it is, you're only getting what you want on cycle. My training and diet was on point before, during and post pct, so it sure shit wasn't that.
ARs TOP DOG ~ MONITOR ~
This is it in a nut shell you can take all the aas you want but if your diet isn't right you won't be happy with your results.
Knowledgeable Member
If you're looking at pro bodybuilder or even magazines and hoping to look like them you will be disappointed. You have to be cleAr on goals and a plan. Personally I do not want to look like a body builder. Now I'm aiming more for a fitness model look. Steroids are not something to be taken lightly, reality is to get huge it takes many cycles and a lot of time and dedication.
Associate Member
Again, understood. I myself tell people all day, you're diet isn't right, you could hit the gym hard all day all night and it won't make a lick of difference results wise, you may progress, but very little. Bodybuilding in my mind is 30% training and 70% diet.
Associate Member
Yes sir!
Associate Member
Nope, not even close. I get it, I know how it works.
Maybe I wasn't clear about what I'm asking, if I run the perfect cycle, diet, and train, will I keep everything I gained post pct??????
Knowledgeable Member
I suspect you still wouldn't maintain much. Diet and training are crucial and inevitably you will continue to use steroids for life it's just what happens. If you've already had failed cycles you probably need to go back to the drawing bored and start from square one. If you don't recover from a cycle you will lose all gains and maybe even more and possibly need trt for life. These are the risks we take.
Associate Member
So by your answer, and correct me if I'm wrong, then no.... ?? Even if my cycle, pct, diet and training is on point I won't keep very much?
Banned
Well understand to get like a pro. Or close too it.
It needs to be your life. Even,a part time job or small social life will seriously hamper your goal
Those dude are paid Nd taken care of. Sponsers pay for diet, nutritionist, cooks and food. Pay them to lift weights.
12 hoyrs sleep a day, the rest in gym
Productive Member
Edited..I meant to say the gains that were substantial IS from a 5 year blast . Not isn't
Productive Member
I imagine one could keep much of the gains if you continue to workout hard and diet accordingly.
Knowledgeable Member
you can keep some but realistically the gains are not permanent.
Member
You have to understand, there are too many variables to answer this question. I can tell you that I've never kept ALL of my gains from any cycle in ten years. However, I've always kept improvements from every cycle. Whether it was to bulk, cut, or get stronger, every cycle has been a net positive.
If you stay in the game you will get better each time. Every cycle I do is better than the last one because I have ten years of experience with my body to build on. What I need in the way of training, diet, rest, etc. All that knowledge comes from just doing it.
Every cycle you do you will look back and say, I could have done something better. This is just gaining knowledge. I've yet to run a perfect cycle. Every time I learn a little something to apply to the next one.
Just get out there and do it. Keep a detailed journal. Build on your experience. You'll get there.
Productive Member
Then why take steroids if it's going to pump you up for a nit then come off regardless and fuck your natural system up . Unless your on TRT..this is one of the reason why I'm not starting my first yet
Productive Member
Somyour saying that you keep one positive gain from each cycle you do or have done. I'm sure you will lose some mass and strength etc. but all of it regardless of post cycle diet and training
Knowledgeable Member
My guess is in most cases a couple years of not using steroids and people are back to normal everyone is a bit different and you can fight to hold on to gains but over time the lower hormone level is going to let nature run its course.
Productive Member
Right so I'm don't see the point other then for the summer or for some conditioning for a program of some sort. Considering that if I cycle safely that my body will make a full recovery. Which is my hold up
Knowledgeable Member
See the flip side is you can keep progressing like if you keep 50% of gains through pct and time off between cycles you start the next cycle above where you started your first. It's longer time off that will bring you back to normal.
Associate Member
No you won't keep all your gains, yes you can keep a good amount of gains post cycle if you continue to eat right and train hard. Steroids aren't a magical thing, they are PERFORMANCE ENHANCING, many things come into play when it comes to gains and maintaining them.
If you do everything you can to maximize your cycle, eat, train, rest and then properly recover you should be able to maintain a nicer physique than before you started, realistically if you want to continue to grow and stay shredded you need to continue doing steroids thats just the name of the game.
Knowledgeable Member
It's not a sprint, is a marathon. Growing and getting bigger is a long-term venture that comes with peaks and valleys. In my mind there's only one true protocol, which is consistency over time. Diet, supplements, program, motivation, happiness, support network... Everything works if you do it long enough, with the right motivation, and have clearly defined goals.
If you just want to be 'big' for the summer, do that. If you want to be big for life, do that.
Best of luck.
Associate Member
This pretty much sums it up, then what's the point? I have to keep using to keep my gains? I can build naturally with proper training and diet and not sacrifice anything but perhaps a little more time to retain what I've gained. On a solid bulk, meaning regimented training program and diet, most people can add at least 0.5lbs+ of muscle a week.... on a 6 month bulk that's potentially 13-15lbs. of muscle a year. So why bother doing aas?
I started working out 2 years ago and was a skinny rat and thought aas what I needed to help me get big, did a cycle and got a little bigger, but then went away post cycle. I was clued out on my first cycle, some dude at the gym said do this and that, but no PCT so thought that's why. A year later my second cycle, got much bigger, a little better informed and went on PCT when the cycle was over. After PCT.... Gone again. So no matter what unless you're constantly cycling will you go back to pretty much the same size as when you started, any gains you would likely still have won't be from aas, but likely from the continued diet and training.
I really thought aas was the way to boost size and strength, but it's only temporary...
So why do you you guys do it? Just build naturally and it stays forever.
Last edited by jjsevens; 03-04-2017 at 06:51 AM.
Banned
.5 lbs a week. That's a pipe dream.
Yes starting from scratch beginer gains happen qwik, once they level off . 15 lbs a year is really not really reality
Member
Not sure I understand the question. When I started cycling 10 years ago it was to push past a plateau. I would keep most of my strength gains and more than half of the mass I put on. After a cut I will put weight back on (including fat) but that's because I reduce cardio and increase calories.
Now I'm on TRT (age 44) and do one cycle a year to cut for summer. I will go down to around 9% and then slowly put it back on over the summer and then start eating like crazy for the winter. Rinse and repeat.
Some years are better than others because of training and diet. But in the grand scheme of things I'm always moving forward. I'm in better shape now than I've ever been and much better shape than I was when I started cycling.
I guess that's the best way to answer your question. I've never regressed back to where I started 10 years ago. Some years are better than others. Some cycles are better than others. But I'm always moving forward.
Knowledgeable Member
Yeah but you're on trt and cycle every year
Junior Member
This is why cycling is for ppl who dead set on performing at high levels or achieving an amazing body. If you're not serious then dont do it. If you dont keep cycling you will eventually shrink down to what ever your bodies natural testosterone can maintain. You might not lose all your gains in a few months but after a year or so you will shrink down.
Member
This is true but only for the last 2 years. It must be said that I believe I'm on TRT now because of cycling. I have no way of proving that, of course, just what I believe. After 40 it got very hard to recover from cycles. At 42 I just couldn't recover from a tren cycle. For now I don't mind the TRT. It has increased my quality of life so I can't complain. I don't know how I'm going to feel about pinning every week at 60 though.
I believe being on TRT is a very real possibility if you stay in the game long enough and something the young guys are not mature enough to consider. But wisdom only comes with age. If I had been hard core into weightlifting in my 20's I know I would have used AAS.
New Member
I think there is a lot of truth to this. I have no AAS experience but from the reading I've done it seems that most guys that keep majority of their gains or that get bigger year after year are always "on" some compounds, maybe just a low cruise dose or whatever. Also it seems if you follow the guidelines of time off = time on plus PCT then you probably are cycling again before most of your gains are lost. I've seen a few threads where guys are 2, 3 maybe 8 weeks off cycle and say they haven't lost too much yet but they don't seem to update 6, 8 or 12 months later to say if they kept it or not.
It's what has kept me from cycling so far. Personally I would like to do one basic test only cycle, put on 15-20 lbs and never do it again but keep all my gains. I'm convinced it doesnt work like that though.
Banned
I personally feel that you will keep your gains from a cycle as long as you lift and train and eat properly
Even if you never cycle and you put on 20 pounds of muscle over 5 Years From lifting and training hard and then decided to stop doing all that yeah you're going to lose it all but as long as you train and eat and lift hard you'll maintain your muscle and add to it
So after a cycle do you think that's it these are going to last forever and I can just stop you're sadly mistaken same as if you were doing it naturally when you stop it goes away training that is I personally plan on running a cycle every single year and judging by my last cycle which ended 10 weeks ago I kept everything pretty much because I live the lifestyle I love lifting and exercising it makes me a better person it makes me look better and feel better about myself I won't stop doing exercise until I'm in a casket
Knowledgeable Member
I think you're right on this for sure. Sure you'll lose a little weight, but it's imperative to adjust your tdee to the size you are (or want to be). A person will add weight while on even with a slight surplus because anabolics supercharge what you do. It is hard to adjust calories until you train yourself to do so. It's easy to forget a meal here or there and it takes a lot of dedication. The only noticeable loss for me is definition moreso than anything. But since I'm on TRT, I do feel is easier for me to fudge here or there on occasion.
Associate Member
0.5lbs a week is no pipe dream, in fact that's on the low range for most lifters. Yes you can only go so far with how much you can gain naturally after some years, at that point I can see where aas would benefit those who want to get bigger/than what genetics will allow.
You do not need aas to build meaningful strength and size if you train and diet correctly.
Banned
So a 185 pound man lifting for 7 years will be easily attainable 290?
Pipe freaking dream
So a guy who's been lifting since high school should weight half a metric ton?
Pipe dream
Changed Man
Redz is right. The thing is I know guys like you. If you touch this once you will never want to stop. You will do it right though with breaks between cycles and all other safety mecanisms in place.
What do you see yourself doing in the next twenty years? You are already a machine, with gear you can use it as a tool and make your machine run hotter for a long long time done correctly and by the time you are 50 you will prob need trt regardless.
I am not trying to talk you into it or out of it but if you don't start soon I am gonna hire an IT guy to track you down and I am gonna crawl in your window at night and inject you.
Associate Member
That's an exaggerated number. If you reread what I said, you can only go so far, eventually that number drops, genetics will allow you to build to a certain point.
I started working out 2 years ago, I've put on 20lbs. of muscle and that was through trial and error, had I started with the knowledge I have now I'd be further ahead.
I expect to add another 10-15lbs in the next year. It's unlikely in year 4 or 5 that I'll be able to add anymore than that, but wouldn't want to at that point, I'll be happy with size and strength at that point, not looking for the bodybuilder look.
Knowledgeable Member
Once you reach your genetic limit natty your gains become minimal from there on out no matter what you do with diet and training. If you do a cycle of let's say the beginner cycle of 500mg/week of test you will gain muscle IF your diet, training and rest are good. So at the end of this cycle your up 10-15 lbs. This IS NOT all muscle. It's muscle and fluid and maybe some fat. If you continue to eat like you have been you will retain some of your gains. The trouble is most people revert back to their previous diet and training and lose it all in a few weeks. The point I'm making is if you started at 200 lbs and you finish at 215 you're going to have to eat and train like 215 or you'll lose what you've gained. So in reality now you've lost the fat and fluid and you've settled out at around 205 which is still good for the AVERAGE guy in the gym.
I'm trying to put this in perspective. AAS is not magical. It's not going to give you gains the same each time you cycle. It's a point of diminishing returns. To keep gaining past your genetic limits requires harder and more advanced training, diet and cycling. It's not for the average person who goes to the gym and "works out". I may strike a nerve here but to me "working out" and "training" are two different things with two different mind sets. People work out to get in shape or to look good for summer or keep weight of. Training involves a long term concerted effort both mentally and physically to improve past your genetic limits and reach a goal you would never be able to obtain by just "working out".
So to know what your expectations for a cycle are you need to first look at your goals. Whether it's to get in shape for the beach this summer or gain 5 lbs or cut some fat or to set a WR bench you need to know your goal first in order to set your expectations from the cycle.
Banned
Yes your first 20 is called "beginner gains" even 7lbs a year after your initial beginner gains is extremely extremely conservative.
Just trying to let you realize this so you don't get discouraged.
Keeping to be of lean muscle after a cycle is a big deal.
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