Cypionate

[Twopak]

Hello, I am 50 yr old male 6'0 220 lbs, I've been Test for 15 months, 200mg Cyp 1 cc a week. was taking 81mg asprin a day. Started Feb 18th 2016 by May 31th I lost 4 inches on my waist put on 12 lbs of Muscle went from benching 250 lbs to 315 by May 31st 2016. I went to the Er on May 5th 2017 thinking I was having a heart attack, BP was 177/112/ hear rate was 128, I had been drinking a sugar free Monster energy a day for about 90 days and was taking Sudafed red tablets 2 at a time 3 times a day for sinus trouble, which I found out could certainly get my heart rate and BP up. I had a stress test and Eco cardio gram, Cardiologist sais my heart was only working at 38% have Cardio Myopthia, he blames it on the Test told me to stop immediately. I know guys been doing test for 20 years, I know guys doing 2 to 3 CC's a week. I stopped 3 weeks ago and have crashed, Dr. said I had no blockages and that the BP medicine Linispril 20 mg twice daily and Coreg 6.5 mg daily will eventually get my heart working right again it should began working right on it own he is upping my coreg to twice of an evening for 7 days then wants me to take it twice morning and evening. So has anyone else experienced this? I had one Dr. tell me he did not think the test caused this, he said more likely the Monster, and Sudafed. and Stress from jobs. I may also have a torn PEc waiting for MRI results now, so I have been off test and out of the gym for three weeks feel like crap! I loved all the benefits of test and can't see me staying off of it for ever, I really don't want to believe the test caused my heart problems, suppose to be the safest Steriod on the Market. Feed back is appreciated.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

IMHO:
200mg of test a week is on the high side of TRT.
I am prescribed 80mg/week.
80-100mg/week is commonly prescribed by regular doctors while test clinics prescribe 200mg/week.
What does 200mg/week put your testosterone level at? And what is your hematocrit at?

[Strongblood]

Hello Twopak. I noticed this was your first post, so welcome to the forum! 200mgs per week of Test Cyp is a little high to replace testosterone back to normal levels. I would say that dose would put you well above the highest normal range. Do you take an Aromatase Inhibitor? If not, there's a good chance that your estrogen is well above normal. And that could have a negative impact on your heart. The amount of Sudafed you were taking also could affect your heart health.
My opinion is that 200mgs of Testosterone pw is not detrimental to a mans heart. As long as estrogen is kept within normal range.
However, I do think that High estrogen, abusing Sudafed, and energy drinks daily over a period of time, could definitely have a negative effect on a mans heart.

[Twopak]

Great questions and I wish I knew these answers, the Clinic I was going to took blood about ever three months but never went over the results with me to tell me where I was. This was all new to me I did not know well enough to ask, tested my urine about every time the first three visits the about every three months after that. I knew it was working my energy level went up, lost fat put on a lot of muscle fast. Now that I have stopped cold turkey I am wonder if my body won't make Test any more after being on that dose for 15 months no cycling off! I know My T lever before I started was low 222. I have no Idea ho high my T level ever got up too!

I hope to get this Cardio problem fixed and ease back in to the Test, I am going to get a second opinion from another Cardiologist.

[Twopak]

Yes Anastrzol 1mg daily, I should have mentioned that, I am going for a second opinion from another Cardiologist, because the reading I did before starting Cyp said it was safe, I know 1 cc of 200 mg is the limit of what My dr. would prescribe, but I know others that go to Dr. that do 2 a week. So I thoughts are my heart problems were brought on by stress and energy drinks and Sudafed, throw Test in the mix maybe it did not help but I refuse to believe Test was the sole cause because millions of men on it.
I was working out 3 to 5 times a week and getting excellent results, in the Gym and the Bedroom! I have been off test for almost 4 weeks and feel like crap, I am aslo out of the gym as waiting on MRI results possible torn Pec. I want to get back on test but gonna get a second opinion from another Dr. I have been in great health until Dr. found no blockages just my heart was working way harder then it should have been, been off of energy drinks and Sudafed 4 weeks as well. Getting almost zero caffine and Heart medicine makes me feel exhusted! I am so ready to get back on the test? Do you think my body won't produce test any more after of 15 months every week on test? My sex life is sure suffering too!

[transilvania]

Im in the same situation like you , 10 weeks ago i was going to ER with pain on my back to find out that i was having a Heart attack , they put me one stent , after 5 days before let me home they told my that my ejecțion fracțion was 43% not much difference from your 38 % last month after ECO Doppler chek my ejection fraction was 65 % that means in normal range , my cardiologist and my endo blame on the steroid abuse from the last 17 years with 1-2 cycle per year , as you i was on test and tren cycle and istop all cold turkey , now i run a pct and finish 3 week of hcg 500 ui eod and abouth to start clomid 50 mg ed for 4 weeks , kinda mind fuck t up , and like you i refuse to belive i cant touch again even a trt dosage of test cyp ...Good Luck with recovery!

[Quester]

My thinking mirrors that of you two. Additionally, make sure they go over your blood work with you. You need to know. And, it is a good way to determine if they know what they are doing and they take your health as seriously as you do.
Good luck

[Twopak]

Wow! Damit! Not what I wanted to here! I was only on it for 15 months but never cycled off but Low T Dr. said I was not suppose too! I was taking Anastrzole Estrogen Blocker but stopped for a couple of months because I got a buddy going to a different Dr. he is taking 2 cc a week of Cyp 200 mg, not on Estrogen blocker, I told him to ask his DR. his Dr,said it was only for Gynecomastia that if his nipples got sore he would put him on it. When I got off for 2 months I would cry at the drop of a hat Dr. was pissed I got off. I got back on so my Estrogen did spike and probably did not help my situation. I told my buddy better cut back and get on estrogen blocker ASP! Thank for the feed back hope you recover man good luck Bro!

[Twopak]

Thank you! Lesson learned! Dr. runs them through like cattle all about the buck, I will never allow that kinda of BS again! I will demand answers, I got caught in the results!

[almostgone]

Yes Anastrzol 1mg daily, I should have mentioned that, I am going for a second opinion from another Cardiologist, because the reading I did before starting Cyp said it was safe, I know 1 cc of 200 mg is the limit of what My dr. would prescribe, but I know others that go to Dr. that do 2 a week. So I thoughts are my heart problems were brought on by stress and energy drinks and Sudafed, throw Test in the mix maybe it did not help but I refuse to believe Test was the sole cause because millions of men on it.
I was working out 3 to 5 times a week and getting excellent results, in the Gym and the Bedroom! I have been off test for almost 4 weeks and feel like crap, I am aslo out of the gym as waiting on MRI results possible torn Pec. I want to get back on test but gonna get a second opinion from another Dr. I have been in great health until Dr. found no blockages just my heart was working way harder then it should have been, been off of energy drinks and Sudafed 4 weeks as well. Getting almost zero caffine and Heart medicine makes me feel exhusted! I am so ready to get back on the test? Do you think my body won't produce test any more after of 15 months every week on test? My sex life is sure suffering too!

I can't answer your questions about what caused your cardiac event, but that is a boatload of a'dex, I mean a lot.
I would suggest that you get your heart function back to normal or as close as possible and then try to find a competent Dr. for your TRT.
Ditch the caffeine, ephedrine, and stimulants. They are the last thing you need right now. Stick with your beta blocker. My ejection fraction was sub 12-15% at one time, but I recovered via the correct medications, a biventricular pacemaker, and cardiac rehab.
Beta blockers can make you feel tired. I take Coreg 6.25mg b.I.d.. Was first started on Lopressor, but I couldn't tolerate it.
Please don't go back to the clinic you were using. What they did is inexcusable and they don't have a clue. They should have reviewed and explained your lab work with you. They are your labs and you are entitled to know the results.

[almostgone]

Also, don't get down. This is something you can recover from, but it takes time. At one time I had left bundle branch block, cardiomyopathy, congestive heart failure, atrial fibrillation, mitral valve disorder, and I have a genetic clotting disorder.
I'll be 53 this year and I'm still kicking. While you get your health back in order, I would read here:
Hormone Replacement Therapy - Low Testosterone Treatment, Anti-Aging
Lots of good information to help you educate yourself so that you can recognize and understand what safe, effective hormone replacement is all about.

[Obs]

No, imho, psuedoephedrine "sudafed" is what took your heart rate that high. Your bp was not nearly the issue the expectorants and ephedrine were. Test can cause bp issues in some individuals but its nothing in comparison to the expectorants you were taking.

Gonna get smart here so hang on..
PE has a half life that can literally be doubled by artificial acidity in the urine from drinks such as soda (monster). A high enouh ph balance of urine causes epedrine to literally hang out twice as long and in the meantime you are adding expectorants and amplifying the effect. Ephedrine and caffeine or any other expectorant can literally take anyones heart rate through the roof.
My warning: do not toich pseudo or ephedrine sulfate.

[transilvania]

Right now my cardiologist send me one study published today . Body-building steroids may promote CAD and Ventricular dysfunction ! I forget to say that for the last 7 years until now i was a big fan of Pre workout supplements load it with Caffeine , i dont know if i do 4-5 trainig session without in this years , plus i eat a lot of junk food late night for the past 7 months , not doing cardio at all ,not to Look for an excuse for steroids but maybe in my case was all factors combined ,aaa and i forget , i was not using AI, becouse i neva have Any estrogen related side efects.. i know not i Smart thing !

[transilvania]

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/880966

[almostgone]

Big difference between an AAS cycle and TRT. Your clinic wasn't giving you your lab work nor does if sound like they were monitoring your hematocrit levels, estradiol, etc. Just elevated hematocrit puts an excessive load on your heart. Add excessive use of stimulants to that and it's a recipe for disaster.

[transilvania]

In my contry we don t have trt clinics , only your endo or urologist can prescribe you testosterone , at the time of my Heart attack my rbc and hct was in normal range my rbc was 5.0 and hct was 49 . My right cornonary artere was block By a blood clot !

[almostgone]

In my contry we don t have trt clinics , only your endo or urologist can prescribe you testosterone , at the time of my Heart attack my rbc and hct was in normal range my rbc was 5.0 and hct was 49 . My right cornonary artere was block By a blood clot !

Were you checked for a genetic clotting disorder? There are numerous factors in the clotting cascade that can be affected. I didn't know I had Leiden Factor V until they found out that my body didn't respond to most anticoagulants.
I'm not saying that there is absolutely no risk of thrombosis from testosterone use because that would be irresponsible and incorrect. However, a great deal of the risk can be mitigated by a properly managed TRT protocol.
The only reason I ask if you were screened for a clotting disorder is because if you weren't, you may want to bring it up with your healthcare professional. You would hate to think it was the testosterone that was the culprit when it was another issue entirely that needed to be addressed.

[kelkel]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25636998

Read the last sentence.

[michael30]

Op I'm sorry about what your dealing with. I just left a long post in another thread about health risks of AAS. What you are dealing with is 100% what I spoke about in my post that has been happening to members over on another forum in the last 2 years. 2 members died and several others are dealing with excately what you are. I might shoot you a pm. I will say though the members over there where all heavy users. Your the first I've seen on very low dose. I have a question, in your post you mentioned your heart was working at only 38%. When you say that do you mean your ejection fraction is only 38%? Just so you know a member I spoke about above had a lower EF(ejection fraction) then yours an was able to drastically bring it up over several years. Which is a good thing. Also please look into CQ10( the good kind, that absorbs better) if I remember correctly there is info out there about it raising your ejection fraction (I take it myself) I am by no means an expert but lately due to my own family history I have been trying to learn as much as possible about the heart and aas. Because I myself am at risk. I wish you the best. Also after time passes I would bring it up with your Dr about getting back on trt. But at a lower dose. Like 75-125mg aweek( the lowest possible dose that brings you into a healthy range. Trt has been shown to be more beneficial to heart health then low t. I was also prescribed 200mg a week but lowered it myself to 112mg aweek. Also if you drop your dose I highly recommend dropping your A.I. at a low dose of trt your estrogen should not be high at all(check blood work and go from there) the reason I say this is too low of estrogen has negative effect on heart health. I want to state very clearly though. Do not make the changes I recommended about without talking to your Dr first.

[Twopak]

Good Info, I had no Idea! I have been using sudafed for years spring and Fall, The Monster Energy drinks I started drinking one every morning since I took on a second job, about ninety days, since I don't drinks Coffee, I have been off caffeine, Sudafed and Test cold turkey for going on 6 weeks, I am going back on test can't stand feeling like crap and losing muscle at a very fast rate. I have not been able to work out in 6 weeks do to grade 1 and 2 Pec strain. I am going to ease back in to Cyp, start out with 100 mg a week for a few weeks then I will find new Dr, get Blood work when I get low on script. I probable have 4 more weeks off before I can start lifting I start Rehab for Pec and Elbow Tuesday so hope get get that healed up get back in gym. Cardiologist say's stay on BP meds and Heart rate med's for 3 months and then come back for new Eco he expect my Injection Fraction to be back up to 65% up from the 38%. I just Believe My heart problems are more related to Sudafed and Monsters, I am reading some good stuff on this site and learning, I hope to get back to where I was, Never looked better. Got muscled up!

[Twopak]

Great INFO I feel Like I am doing more harm by quitting cold turkey all together, I am going to ease back in to it, I am not sure Cardiologist understands test at all. I know I am miserable with out it! Was thinking of starting back at 100 mg wk dose and going to new Dr, and getting some blood work. I still have about 6 weeks left of my script, so if I cut it in half that will be 12 weeks, Thanks for the info!

[Twopak]

Excellent Info thanks!

[Twopak]

Thank you! I will look in to that. Really appreciate it!

[Twopak]

Yep, Time to find a good Dr. that cares about my health the one I used was all about the buck never went over any lab work!
I got caught up in the results in the Gym!

[Twopak]

Cardiologist has me on Lisinoprel 20 mg once daily and 12.5 Cored twice daily! it is keeping my BP down and heart rate in the low to mid 70's. He said come back for another ECO in three months he hopes my Injection fraction will be up to 65%. I really do not want to wait 3 more months to start back on test, thinking about easing back in to it.

[almostgone]

Cardiologist has me on Lisinoprel 20 mg once daily and 12.5 Cored twice daily! it is keeping my BP down and heart rate in the low to mid 70's. He said come back for another ECO in three months he hopes my Injection fraction will be up to 65%. I really do not want to wait 3 more months to start back on test, thinking about easing back in to it.

A left ventricle ejection fraction of 65% is better than normal. Anything 55% or better is considered normal in the US. On a good day my EF is 45%+.

Ejection fraction: What does it measure? - Mayo Clinic

However, if you decide to start back using testosterone, keep it within the normal range and stay totally away from the stimulants.

[Twopak]

I see guys on hear giving Blood that are on gear what is the rule of thumb for when and how often someone on gear should donate blood? How do you know if you need to donate?

Thanks!

[Twopak]

That's the thing the clinic I was going too never did blood work after the First visit to see if my test was low enough to qualify, I did not know any better, and I got caught up in results and did not ask questions, I will get Blood work every few months now and will demand answers! I just started back on test today, only taking .5 cc a week for the first few weeks to ease back in to it, will go back on Anastrzol 1mg after a few weeks back on TRT, I quit cold turkey 6 weeks ago and that was a bad Idea, Cardiologist scared the heck out of me! He mentioned the other 3 patients he has that have the same problem that are on gear are not quitting, I did but the crash was horrible now my body not making test, I am not walking around this low so I hope the Coreg 12.5 twice daily and the BP med Lisinopril 20 mg once daily get my heart function back to 65% EJF. I will get blood work and get some good advice. What is the rule of thumb for donating blood? What does Hematocrit level need to be? When it get's to what level should I go donate blood?

[Twopak]

Thank you, great Info, I am going to look at CQ10 and I started back on TRT today 100 mg week for the first few weeks, I feel like I am doing more harm having quit clod turkey 6 weeks ago. I am going to ease in to it and I will probably wait a few weeks to start A.I. and only take the 1 mg Anastrozol 1mg once every three days instead of every day, I only have a couple of weeks of test left gonna go get blood work and monitor it this time around! I have felt so exhausted and Drained having let my T level fall so low and being on this Coreg 12.5 trice a day and Lisinopril 20 mg once a day has got me feeling really tired all the time. I am hoping the Meds fix the EJF problem Dr. is hopeful it will no blockages. Thanks for the Info.

[Obs]

Thank you, great Info, I am going to look at CQ10 and I started back on TRT today 100 mg week for the first few weeks, I feel like I am doing more harm having quit clod turkey 6 weeks ago. I am going to ease in to it and I will probably wait a few weeks to start A.I. and only take the 1 mg Anastrozol 1mg once every three days instead of every day, I only have a couple of weeks of test left gonna go get blood work and monitor it this time around! I have felt so exhausted and Drained having let my T level fall so low and being on this Coreg 12.5 trice a day and Lisinopril 20 mg once a day has got me feeling really tired all the time. I am hoping the Meds fix the EJF problem Dr. is hopeful it will no blockages. Thanks for the Info.

Austinite had something better than coq10 cant remember what it was...