4 months in. Having some side effects

[searay50]

hello all

I am 49 year old male. 6'1, 230 lbs. Initial test was 220.

I am 4 months into a TRT through a Mens Center in Virginia. Been flying along, feeling really good. I started out on 1 CC of Cyp but the Dr raised it, first to 1.2 cc then 1.4 cc. They have me taking 1.4 CC per week Cypionate which I think is 260 mg. I dose that IM on Tuesday. I take an AI on Wednesday and 50 ml HCG on Friday. My test number is 638.

Now, here is where I have questions b/c some issues have come up. I injured my back and had to miss 2 weeks of working out. This is during my 1.4 cc of Cyp. I started having tingling issues and a little elevated BP and heart rate. My normal BP clocks regularly at 120's over 70's. HR 65. My BP jumped to 140's over 80's and some 90's. HR jumped to mid 90's. Went to hospital and had all kinds of tests done. Nothing wrong

Talked to my TRT Dr and he rec'd doing a Red blood cell donation at the American Red Cross. I went there and they only do "Power Red" as they call it, for certain blood types. Not mine. I am still waiting to hear back from my Dr.

I am positive many others on here have had this issue. What is the best way to deal with it? I feel my dose is too high. I read the initial TRT forum, and like the lower dosing, E3D, but I have to follow my Dr. orders I think.

I am open to suggestions.

Thanks

[Windex]

hello all

I am 49 year old male. 6'1, 230 lbs. Initial test was 220.

I am 4 months into a TRT through a Mens Center in Virginia. Been flying along, feeling really good. I started out on 1 CC of Cyp but the Dr raised it, first to 1.2 cc then 1.4 cc. They have me taking 1.4 CC per week Cypionate which I think is 260 mg. I dose that IM on Tuesday. I take an AI on Wednesday and 50 ml HCG on Friday. My test number is 638.

Now, here is where I have questions b/c some issues have come up. I injured my back and had to miss 2 weeks of working out. This is during my 1.4 cc of Cyp. I started having tingling issues and a little elevated BP and heart rate. My normal BP clocks regularly at 120's over 70's. HR 65. My BP jumped to 140's over 80's and some 90's. HR jumped to mid 90's. Went to hospital and had all kinds of tests done. Nothing wrong

Talked to my TRT Dr and he rec'd doing a Red blood cell donation at the American Red Cross. I went there and they only do "Power Red" as they call it, for certain blood types. Not mine. I am still waiting to hear back from my Dr.

I am positive many others on here have had this issue. What is the best way to deal with it? I feel my dose is too high. I read the initial TRT forum, and like the lower dosing, E3D, but I have to follow my Dr. orders I think.

I am open to suggestions.

Thanks

Unless the Doctor has a gun to your head, you are not obligated to follow his/her instructions. Unfortunately, many Doctors don't keep up with medicine advancements and use out dated / suboptimal protocols. This is especially true for andrology/endrocrinology versus regular patient care.

The very first thing you should do is read the sticky threads so you have a better understanding of what you signed up for. Given you are going to be on TRT for the rest of your life, it's in your best interest to have a working knowledge of the in/out's of TRT and hormones in general.

After that, I would find out exactly what dose of HCG is being prescribed to you. 50mL means nothing. HCG is dosed as IU (International Units) and the concentration is IU per mL. The baseline for HCG is done twice per week as a starting point. You should find out what AI you are on because Aromasin once per week will do very little and/or almost nothing.

Next, you need to inject a minimum of twice per week. One injection per week means your doctor is basing it off the elimination half life of the ester and you are putting your body through a hormonal roller coaster. Finally, you want to seriously consider lowering your dose. The range for TRT is 100mg-200mg per week (Some people are exceptions and need a bit above or below the range, focus on being the rule not the exception and adjust accordingly). Bloodwork is key to knowing when to lower or raise the dose.

The current program you are on is honestly going to cause more problems than it will solve. It's very poor.

[waltr64]

1. Your docs protocol is not optimal but is is one that was somewhat standard for years, educate yourself. You know your body better than anyone else.
2. A BP of 140 over 80 is not high and is probably were most Americans are when they go to the doctor, 240 over 110 would be something to worry about (that is what my mom's gets to sometime). Pain increases BP and your pulse rate so if you had a back injury I would say it would be from that not the TRT although some steroids can increase BP.
3. If you hemoglobin is high (TRT can make it higher) giving blood will help and is the standard treatment as well are reducing your consumption of red meat and avoid supplements that include iron. It just means you have plenty of good red blood cells. This is a good thing if you are an athlete. My doctor added aspirin to my schedule because I have thick blood and am pron to strokes. I try to limit my red meet to once per week and that seems to work for me.
4. Your dose of Test dose is a little above normal TRT in the US, however there is some European research that shows a much higher level is better for overall health. Your blood test puts you right in the middle of normal range so I would not say you are taking too much Test but also agree splitting into 2 doses a week would be much better. However, your free test is a more important number and I don't see that you have posted that?
5. If you E2 is high is the only reason you would need an AI and although the half life of some is almost a week today it seems generally recommend to take a smaller dose more often. Avoiding all things Soy can help with this as well.

I'm not a doc but have been on TRT for over 10 years and several different doctors along the way. I personally feel better with a higher Test level. I do have issues with E2 and take AI eod. I have found a European drug called Proviron helps me to feel better but your doc can't prescribe it in the US we use HCG instead. I have a friend that is a medical Doctor and he sometimes takes a whole bottle of HCG at a time because he likes the way it makes him fill.

Good luck and try not to stress too much all is good.

[Youthful55guy]

hello all

I started out on 1 CC of Cyp but the Dr raised it, first to 1.2 cc then 1.4 cc. They have me taking 1.4 CC per week Cypionate which I think is 260 mg. I dose that IM on Tuesday. I take an AI on Wednesday and 50 ml HCG on Friday. My test number is 638.

I suggest you start with this thread: https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...rting-trt.html

Your protocol is old school and you will be fighting side-effects for the rest of your life if you continue on it. It's protocols like this that give TRT a bad name and why compliance is so low.

[searay50]

I suggest you start with this thread: https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...rting-trt.html

Your protocol is old school and you will be fighting side-effects for the rest of your life if you continue on it. It's protocols like this that give TRT a bad name and why compliance is so low.

Just left my 18 week check up. I brought up my issues and what I had read on here. Bottom line, my protocol is now 40mg E3D with an insulin needle. He told me to do it SQ but I mentioned injecting in my thigh where you recommended. He didn't have an issue so that is what I am doing. I am still taking HCG and Arimidex. I am going to hold off on the Arimidex and see what my E numbers are when he does a blood draw in two weeks. He told me not to use the insulin needles to draw, but to use the regular draw needles I was given and then shoot it into the insulin syringe. I just finished doing that. I noticed a little air gets into the syringe but a couple pops with my finger gets rid of it. Injecting that into my thigh is SO much easier than that damn harpoon needle into my ass. Especially so b/c over the past 18 weeks, I have lost all my fat on my ass.

Hopefully these E3D, smaller amount injections will get rid of the tingling and heart rate issues I was having. The nurse who came in after to give me my needles, said I was the only person in this clinic to get approval to do this type of dosing b/c insulin needles cost them more money. I basically said screw them..I would buy my own online if it was that big of deal.

One last thing about the draw. It was damn near impossible to draw the Cyp thru the insulin needle the normal way, so is using another drawing needle and then shooting it into the insulin syringe okay? It's what the Doc said to do.

[kelkel]

It will draw for you. It just takes a minute or so as it's a slow drip.
Congrats on a MUCH better protocol.
Update this thread when you get your next blood work or when any other event occurs please.

[Windex]

I don't use insulin needles personally - but what I would recommend doing is trying different sizes to find what works best/easiest for you. Needles are extremely cheap or potentially free if you have a needle exchange program in your area. What I did at the beginning was get a couple of each size (individual needles are 2-4 cents each) and try each size until I found what worked best for me. May as well give a few options a try given you are on TRT for life.

[GearHeaded]

I've used Test backloading insulin syringes for years and never had a problem (found it to be quite a convenient actually). I use 28 gauge, 1/2", 1cc slin pins. I'll pull the backs out and use a normal syringe that I've drawn my gear in and then shoot the gear from the large needle into the insulin pins.. I might take a whole bottle of say test prop, and then go ahead and fill up 10 insulin pins full of 1cc of test prop and that way they are there waiting for me daily ready to go. just grab a pin and shoot and be on your way.

I find that anything smaller then 28g though takes too long and too much pressure to inject the oil.

[AR's King Silabolin]

hello all

I am 49 year old male. 6'1, 230 lbs. Initial test was 220.

I am 4 months into a TRT through a Mens Center in Virginia. Been flying along, feeling really good. I started out on 1 CC of Cyp but the Dr raised it, first to 1.2 cc then 1.4 cc. They have me taking 1.4 CC per week Cypionate which I think is 260 mg. I dose that IM on Tuesday. I take an AI on Wednesday and 50 ml HCG on Friday. My test number is 638.

Now, here is where I have questions b/c some issues have come up. I injured my back and had to miss 2 weeks of working out. This is during my 1.4 cc of Cyp. I started having tingling issues and a little elevated BP and heart rate. My normal BP clocks regularly at 120's over 70's. HR 65. My BP jumped to 140's over 80's and some 90's. HR jumped to mid 90's. Went to hospital and had all kinds of tests done. Nothing wrong

Talked to my TRT Dr and he rec'd doing a Red blood cell donation at the American Red Cross. I went there and they only do "Power Red" as they call it, for certain blood types. Not mine. I am still waiting to hear back from my Dr.

I am positive many others on here have had this issue. What is the best way to deal with it? I feel my dose is too high. I read the initial TRT forum, and like the lower dosing, E3D, but I have to follow my Dr. orders I think.

I am open to suggestions.

Thanks

Ask your doc if u can switch to Nebido at 10 weeks interval.

Check your hct/rbc. If high u know the reason to your problemes.

Drink a glas of beetrootjuice every morning. Best there is for BP, arteries etc.
Nitrats in the juice turn into NOs in your bloodstream which makes everything smooth and nice.
Until your problems are fixed, mix the juice with the best nitratgreens. Ruccola, spinach f.i

Drink a glas of grapejuice every morning. One of the best natty and safe merhods to work om elevated hct.

Max 10 g salt everyday until BP is ok.
Thats 10 yes. The 5 grams tip is wrong and leads to more diseases. (Last Lanchelet)

Do cardio for heart 3 x a week. Thats optimal.

Be a little nazi on this until ur back on track!

Sent fra min SM-N9005 via Tapatalk

[searay50]

Ask your doc if u can switch to Nebido at 10 weeks interval.

Check your hct/rbc. If high u know the reason to your problemes.

Drink a glas of beetrootjuice every morning. Best there is for BP, arteries etc.
Nitrats in the juice turn into NOs in your bloodstream which makes everything smooth and nice.
Until your problems are fixed, mix the juice with the best nitratgreens. Ruccola, spinach f.i

Drink a glas of grapejuice every morning. One of the best natty and safe merhods to work om elevated hct.

Max 10 g salt everyday until BP is ok.
Thats 10 yes. The 5 grams tip is wrong and leads to more diseases. (Last Lanchelet)

Do cardio for heart 3 x a week. Thats optimal.

Be a little nazi on this until ur back on track!



Sent fra min SM-N9005 via Tapatalk

thank you. Will keep this in mind. I have had to back off cardio for the time being b/c I have a L5/S1 issue that needs surgically fixed. However, breaking my dosage up to E3D has really helped. I will keep updating as time goes on. I can say 100%, using the insulin needle in my thigh was absolutely painless and SO much more easy/convenient. I would have never even known about this protocol without this site and specifically the thread on TRT. Very educational. Thank you to all!

e

[balance]

Drink a glas of grapejuice every morning. One of the best natty and safe merhods to work om elevated hct.

Max 10 g salt everyday until BP is ok.
Thats 10 yes. The 5 grams tip is wrong and leads to more diseases. (Last Lanchelet)

Do cardio for heart 3 x a week. Thats optimal.

Be a little nazi on this until ur back on track!

Sent fra min SM-N9005 via Tapatalk

You mentioned grape juice for lowering hct levels? This is the first I have heard of this, could you possibly mean grapefruit juice? I have read before that GSE ( grapefruit seed extract) has been linked to reducing hct levels. However iirc it was mentioned that drinking grapefruit juice was not very feasible due the mass quantities needed to gain effects seen with gse alone. I have always been wary of drinking much grapefruit juice as it seems to interact with such a large amount of other medications.

Thank you for any information
b

Dr.S
ps I also would like to thank you for many of your other helpful posts in other threads. I have been learning a lot.

[Fred40]

[QUOTE=waltr64;7409058].
2. A BP of 140 over 80 is not high and is probably were most Americans are when they go to the doctor/QUOTE]

Careful with the advice there doc. 140/80 is definitely high if that your "walking around" avg. That level would likely kill you...eventually. The current recommendation is to be below 120/80.... meaning 120/80 would be high.

[searay50]

[QUOTE=Fred40;7413686]

.
2. A BP of 140 over 80 is not high and is probably were most Americans are when they go to the doctor/QUOTE]

Careful with the advice there doc. 140/80 is definitely high if that your "walking around" avg. That level would likely kill you...eventually. The current recommendation is to be below 120/80.... meaning 120/80 would be high.

without fail..my entire adult life I clock 120's/70's. So when mine jumped up to upper 140's/90's, my body knew it. Plus my heart rate was in the mid 90's to 105 while laying in the ER bed. I have resolved the issue by dosing E3D. Just need to know when to dose my hcg now. Should I spread it out over the week as well?

[GearHeaded]

[QUOTE=searay50;7413798]

without fail..my entire adult life I clock 120's/70's. So when mine jumped up to upper 140's/90's, my body knew it. Plus my heart rate was in the mid 90's to 105 while laying in the ER bed. I have resolved the issue by dosing E3D. Just need to know when to dose my hcg now. Should I spread it out over the week as well?

Atenolol is super cheap, easy to get, and will knock out that blood pressure and elevated heart rate issue very easily. its definitley heart protective while on cycle. I don't run cycles without it

[searay50]

[QUOTE=GearHeaded;7413804]

Atenolol is super cheap, easy to get, and will knock out that blood pressure and elevated heart rate issue very easily. its definitley heart protective while on cycle. I don't run cycles without it

no offense, but I am uncomfortable starting a beta blocker without talking to my doc first. I have NEVER had BP issues so this type of meds makes me nervous. Nervous b/c of a lack of true understanding. However, like I said before, switching to e3d dosing has really alleviated my bp and hr issues. I certainly will keep this in mind though if those symptoms resume. I have also been told to give blood if/when this happens again.

Thank you for your input. It gives me alternatives for sure.