Dianabol and liver enzymes

[Slacker78]

Hello guys, i'm stacking my Test E and NPP with Dianabol 30mg/ED ad kickstart. I've read a lot about Dianabol before using it, especially its liver toxicity being it's C-17. I've read a lot of opinion and research about Dianabol and C-17 in general, for example that even one cycle of Dianabol of 4 weeks at moderate dosages as mine, could cause liver damages as necrosis of hepatocytes as well as liver adenomas.

I'm taking NAC 1800 mg/ED and several additional supplements ( Fish Oil, Vit.C, Vit.E, Red Rice Yeast ) and other auxilary drugs as Arimidex 0,50 EOD. I performed my Blood Work 5 days ago, after 10 days i started Dianabol and my liver enzymes were as following in attachments.

Today i did an ultra-sound with my friend who is a doctor, to check my liver and kidneys; no lesions of any kind were found. Is all normal except the liver is slightly bigger than normal ( i think it's normal as i'm eating in bulking as an horse ).

Even though, my liver enzymes seems to be rather higher than normal especially GOT ( AST ) that is almost the double. I've read that many guys are able to keep liver enzymes in range taking C-17 and it's often not recommended using C-17 if liver enzymes do not stay in range even with supplements, during its use.

I'm afraid to cause damage taking Dianabol or other C-17, even i'm taking all the countermeasures to avoid it.

It would be nice to know your opinion about what my stated and my conditions.

My azotemia and creatinine are respectively 44 and 1.30, so they are in range.

Thank you so much for your suggestions and opinions.

[Obs]

You need a real expert here.
Nac and glutathione dont fix ast like alt.

Usually if one is out of range it will be alt first and then the others possibly.

Beware of google cowboys and forum doctors.

I highly doubt the dbol is the issue.

[GearHeaded]

if you didn't take a week or more off of weight training before you had the liver enzymes checked, then your values are inaccurate.
as training breaks down muscle tissue, and the blood work testing for enzymes cannot distinguish the difference between what enzymes are coming from the liver or from muscle tissue break down.

a hard training natty is going to likely have elevated liver enzymes if blood work is taken without a break from training (dbol or not)

[Obs]

if you didn't take a week or more off of weight training before you had the liver enzymes checked, then your values are inaccurate.
as training breaks down muscle tissue, and the blood work testing for enzymes cannot distinguish the difference between what enzymes are coming from the liver or from muscle tissue break down.

a hard training natty is going to likely have elevated liver enzymes if blood work is taken without a break from training (dbol or not)

Doesnt that only apply to the alt?

[GearHeaded]

Doesnt that only apply to the alt?

I'm not sure about that one..

I usually just blame my elevated liver enzymes on the whisky and pain pills anyways. the hard training , Andarol, and Dbol are just thrown in there for good measure

[Slacker78]

You need a real expert here.
Nac and glutathione dont fix ast like alt.

Usually if one is out of range it will be alt first and then the others possibly.

Beware of google cowboys and forum doctors.

I highly doubt the dbol is the issue.

Increased AST is known to be caused even by cardiac muscle and skeletal muscles. I don't know if high protein intake could raise this; or Arimidex. I did an ultra-sound as regular routine check about 1 month ago and all was fine about my heart. No sign of fibrosis, neither necrosis and sistolic/diastolic functionality was fine. Maybe could be the supplements, maybe diet, maybe Test E/NPP or simply my intensive training...

[Slacker78]

if you didn't take a week or more off of weight training before you had the liver enzymes checked, then your values are inaccurate.
as training breaks down muscle tissue, and the blood work testing for enzymes cannot distinguish the difference between what enzymes are coming from the liver or from muscle tissue break down.

a hard training natty is going to likely have elevated liver enzymes if blood work is taken without a break from training (dbol or not)

Yes, i suspect it's training as in this period i'm training 6/7 at week.

[Obs]

Increased AST is known to be caused even by cardiac muscle and skeletal muscles. I don't know if high protein intake could raise this; or Arimidex. I did an ultra-sound as regular routine check about 1 month ago and all was fine about my heart. No sign of fibrosis, neither necrosis and sistolic/diastolic functionality was fine. Maybe could be the supplements, maybe diet, maybe Test E/NPP or simply my intensive training...

It can also be cause by cirrhosis and other thing but that particular lone enzyme being high can be caused by a few things. This one may be hard to get to the bottom of.

Either way dbol usually hits ALT. As far as causes I woul look elsewhere first.

[GearHeaded]

you may be better off switching over from Arimidex to Nolvadex for estrogen blocking effects IF your liver is a big concern. and of course avoiding c17 steroids. But if your running Arimidex year round with your cycles plus perhaps on your cruises/trt as well, that can be an issue

[Obs]

you may be better off switching over from Arimidex to Nolvadex for estrogen blocking effects IF your liver is a big concern. and of course avoiding c17 steroids. But if your running Arimidex year round with your cycles plus perhaps on your cruises/trt as well, that can be an issue

Wth gh... You are gonna trick him into gaining mass!

[Slacker78]

you may be better off switching over from Arimidex to Nolvadex for estrogen blocking effects IF your liver is a big concern. and of course avoiding c17 steroids. But if your running Arimidex year round with your cycles plus perhaps on your cruises/trt as well, that can be an issue

Yes, i usually use a moderate dose of Arimidex on my TRT/Cruising protocols. The first test i would do, should be a week-off ( or less frequency and intensity ) from training and retesting the liver enzymes. But i suppose i should suspend Dbol also, i think and keeping just a cruising dose ( 250mg ) of Test E and reduce/adjust Arimidex dosage to cruising dosage. What do you advice me ?

[GearHeaded]

heres a tip, comparing two different cycles

cycle 1
500mg test a week
50mg Dbol per day
.5mg Adex EOD

^ thats going to yield some gains, but the combo of the Dbol and the Adex are going to strain the liver. Plus your 'blood levels' of Estrogen are going to stay on the low end (which ultimately will effect/limit your potential for muscle building)

Cycle 2
500mg test per week
50mg Ment per day
10mg Nolva per day

this cycle is very similar in regards to its Androgenic/estrogenic/anaboic potential as cycle 1 . but its not going to be liver toxic. Plus its going to be friendlier on your cholesterol , plus your blood levels of estrogen will elevate (yielding more gains) but not cause negative estrogen side effects (being nolva is blocking at the receptor) .

very similar results, probably more gains in cycle 2 as well as less strain on your liver and lipids.

just an idea, again IF your liver values are a big concern for you.


as for re-testing . you could drop down to 200mg test per week. no AI. no Dbol. for two weeks, then lower your training intensity and take a few days off of training right before blood work.

[Slacker78]

heres a tip, comparing two different cycles

cycle 1
500mg test a week
50mg Dbol per day
.5mg Adex EOD

^ thats going to yield some gains, but the combo of the Dbol and the Adex are going to strain the liver. Plus your 'blood levels' of Estrogen are going to stay on the low end (which ultimately will effect/limit your potential for muscle building)

Cycle 2
500mg test per week
50mg Ment per day
10mg Nolva per day

this cycle is very similar in regards to its Androgenic/estrogenic/anaboic potential as cycle 1 . but its not going to be liver toxic. Plus its going to be friendlier on your cholesterol , plus your blood levels of estrogen will elevate (yielding more gains) but not cause negative estrogen side effects (being nolva is blocking at the receptor) .

very similar results, probably more gains in cycle 2 as well as less strain on your liver and lipids.

just an idea, again IF your liver values are a big concern for you.


as for re-testing . you could drop down to 200mg test per week. no AI. no Dbol. for two weeks, then lower your training intensity and take a few days off of training right before blood work.

I think i should return to TRT/Cruising for a while, because this cycle i did was pretty long, around 5 months ( Test E 500mg/W and NPP 300mg/W ); i introduced Dbol just 10 days ago at 30mg/ED to give a last blast before getting in TRT/Crusing again and stopping for a while; in these 5 months i used Arimidex in a variable dosage from 0.25mg/EOD to 0.50/EOD monitoring E2 with a frequent blood work. So i think, even intense training could increase AST/ALT, i suppose an accumulation issue of AI could be the culprit; i got T3 too ( 50mcg/ED ) during this cycle for 8 weeks and i stopped it last week. I think it's a set of things which increased liver enzymes.

I wonder if those liver enzymes values are so critical in general, although they are a bit higher and they shouldn't be there for a general health rule, even on gear.... i would finish the Dbol kickstart ( another 3 weeks of Dbol 30mg/ED ), taking some kg more and returning to TRT for a few months... but i'm afraid to damage something doing so..

[Chrisp83TRT]

heres a tip, comparing two different cycles

cycle 1
500mg test a week
50mg Dbol per day
.5mg Adex EOD

^ thats going to yield some gains, but the combo of the Dbol and the Adex are going to strain the liver. Plus your 'blood levels' of Estrogen are going to stay on the low end (which ultimately will effect/limit your potential for muscle building)

Cycle 2
500mg test per week
50mg Ment per day
10mg Nolva per day

this cycle is very similar in regards to its Androgenic/estrogenic/anaboic potential as cycle 1 . but its not going to be liver toxic. Plus its going to be friendlier on your cholesterol , plus your blood levels of estrogen will elevate (yielding more gains) but not cause negative estrogen side effects (being nolva is blocking at the receptor) .

very similar results, probably more gains in cycle 2 as well as less strain on your liver and lipids.

just an idea, again IF your liver values are a big concern for you.


as for re-testing . you could drop down to 200mg test per week. no AI. no Dbol. for two weeks, then lower your training intensity and take a few days off of training right before blood work.

Isn’t nolvadex not exactly good for you . I heard it can have some crazy ass side effects long term


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[GearHeaded]

Isn’t nolvadex not exactly good for you . I heard it can have some crazy ass side effects long term

you may be thinking of Clomid or perhaps Nolva at PCT dosages (50+mg per day). but as far as 'female breast cancer drugs' go (thats what these all are) , its one of the ones utilized for long term treatment and has been shown safe at daily doses for 6+ years.
things like Arimidex or Letro may play havoc using it daily for that long. on a 12 week cycle , using a low 10mg dose daily, Nolva may actually improve your blood work markers.

however. . if your not estrogen sensitive and you can avoid these drugs all together. your probably better off

[Obs]

Isn’t nolvadex not exactly good for you . I heard it can have some crazy ass side effects long term


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

you may be thinking of Clomid or perhaps Nolva at PCT dosages (50+mg per day). but as far as 'female breast cancer drugs' go (thats what these all are) , its one of the ones utilized for long term treatment and has been shown safe at daily doses for 6+ years.
things like Arimidex or Letro may play havoc using it daily for that long. on a 12 week cycle , using a low 10mg dose daily, Nolva may actually improve your blood work markers.

however. . if your not estrogen sensitive and you can avoid these drugs all together. your probably better off

I attribute nola to hearing people say snide things when they werent. One day I was about to beat the hell out of 5 different people in 5 different scenarios because I thought they said something they didnt.

Only one of them did anything wrong.
I ceased nolva and a hid out a few days. Everything went back to norm.

I have no evidence but I was on it quite a while.
I may have just had some other issue.
I was being a psycho for sure though and it wernt the tren.

[Obs]

Attachment 174936
Nolva sides^^
Apparently nolva can make a gay guy straight and a straight woman gay

[Old Duffer]

Attachment 174936
Nolva sides^^
Apparently nolva can make a gay guy straight and a straight woman gay

But that's on a sliding scale right?

[Obs]

But that's on a sliding scale right?

No it says you will lose sexual interest in men.

If I go to prison I am gonna rrofie everyones food with it and be chowing down on it myself so I dont do something I regret

[Old Duffer]

No it says you will lose sexual interest in men.

If I go to prison I am gonna rrofie everyones food with it and be chowing down on it myself so I dont do something I regret

I don't judge. Much.

[kelkel]

Your values are not that bad nor are they surprising for someone doing what you are doing. They can go much higher than what yours are with the root cause being only muscular trauma, not even considering using orals. Both ALT and AST will raise from muscular trauma. GH is on point that you need 7-10 days workout free to correctly assess liver values.

I'd simply add some UDCA to your protocol.

Good to see you posting Slacker!

[Slacker78]

Your values are not that bad nor are they surprising for someone doing what you are doing. They can go much higher than what yours are with the root cause being only muscular trauma, not even considering using orals. Both ALT and AST will raise from muscular trauma. GH is on point that you need 7-10 days workout free to correctly assess liver values.

I'd simply add some UDCA to your protocol.

Good to see you posting Slacker!

Great Kelkel, thank you so much. My liver in ultra-sound seems to be good, just a bit bigger than normal... but i think it's due the fact that i'm eating as an horse in this period. I hope following the protocol of Dbol 30mg/ED and taking all supplements ( especially NAC ) i mentioned above to protect the liver, to do not do any damage to my liver ( just 4 weeks of Dbol and after i will stop it getting in TRT/Cruising ). You advice me UDCA as C-17 could cause cholestasis i suppose... what dosage could i assume of UDCA ?

[kelkel]

500 per day is more than sufficient. Long term good for your lipids as well.

[gunsonwheels00]

No it says you will lose sexual interest in men.

If I go to prison I am gonna rrofie everyones food with it and be chowing down on it myself so I dont do something I regret

lmaoo