Fake gear ?? Or non utilisation of Testosterone by the body .

[jack7]

Hello there .
This was my first steroid cycle . Which I started to cut for 16 weeks .

Almost finished . With barely minimum and no results .
Got lean bt haven't gained much muscle. ( Lean might because of the strict diet as well ).

My testosterone was not utilised by my body. (Almost nothing )
Had I used fake ??
Or
Was there any problem within my body?which have to be resolved n rectified .

My cycle consisted of..
Anavar 60- 80mgED
Clen 30 mg ED
Winstrol .
Test enanthate 500/week for 5 weeks and then added test prop 700mg pre week after week 7
Proviron 4tabs then increased to 8.
Primobolan 700 week from week 4
Shifted to winstrol liquid 100mg ED
And added maestron from 13week 700mg ED

Anastrazol .5mg everyday
Vit E 400 . 4 cap pr day
Fish oil 1000mg 4 caps .
Vit c 6 - 8 tabs .
HCG 250. 10mcg twice weekly and increased to 3 times to the last .

Diet comsisted of
6 scoops of whey protein
20 egg whites .
Chicken Nd beef
Greens .
Ragi flour as snacking mixed with protein.

No oil no carbs no salt

Had done the blood work
Precycle middle and nearly to the end of the cycle .

Stopped my cycle by the 14 week as I'm vexed and frustrated by not getting results and getting injured as I am not recovering properly.
Came OFF OF GEAR COMPLETLY doing workouts without any gear ..

Have to start a PCT..

SHOULD I DO A PCT ??? FOR THIS as I didn't had test at all in my body . Which haven't been utilised at all .

My blood work with LIVER KIDNEY HEAMOGRAM was almost clear and good with minor differences which can be easily sorted out
Apart from my TESTOSTERONE ..WHICH WAS THE MAIN DECIDING FACTOR .


Had I used the fake gear ? Bt the seller says if I prove he vil return all the expenses I spent on him for the products .
Bt I haven't seen any results from any of the combinations by stacking of such compounds .

I hope u veterans and experts can help me sort out this .and show me a way to over come the issues .and guide me for the next successful cycle .
planing to meet the ENDOCRONOLIGIST ( AS HE ASKED ME TO MEET THE DOC )

Bt I really don't understand what's happening with the body ...

By the way I'm 32 . 5.9
75 kilos present from 83-84 .
BF % I'm not sure what I am right now . .
Lifting since 8-10 years naturally .

I'm Gona post this in other forums as we to get more info and feedback

I can send the pictures if any one asks me to do so .

The picture I has SIMPLIFIED it and hand written as it takes a lot of fotos to go through .
ALL THE INFO IN ONE PIC .
hope u ppl don't Laugh at it .

Thank you .


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[almostgone]

For starters, you need to post your serum and free T values along with E2 values. It would help if you typed that information out in your post.

.5 mg of anastrozole daily is a ton, injuries are likely to happen with subnormal E2 values.

HCG @ 250iu twice/week.

Don't expect to grow on zero carbs, not going to happen.

Lots of issues here. No way would you use clen @ 30mg/day.

Don't see the need for Winstrol and Anavar at the same time. Maybe for an advanced user...maybe. Even then they would be best run consecutively, not concurrently.

Personally, it sounds like you're trying to cut and grow and I believe you would be better suited to pick one goal and adjust your diet and supplements to meet your needs.

[HoldMyBeer]

Hello there .
This was my first steroid cycle . Which I started to cut for 16 weeks .

Almost finished . With barely minimum and no results .
Got lean bt haven't gained much muscle. ( Lean might because of the strict diet as well ).

My testosterone was not utilised by my body. (Almost nothing )
Had I used fake ??
Or
Was there any problem within my body?which have to be resolved n rectified .

My cycle consisted of..
Anavar 60- 80mgED
Clen 30 mg ED
Winstrol .
Test enanthate 500/week for 5 weeks and then added test prop 700mg pre week after week 7
Proviron 4tabs then increased to 8.
Primobolan 700 week from week 4
Shifted to winstrol liquid 100mg ED
And added maestron from 13week 700mg ED

Anastrazol .5mg everyday
Vit E 400 . 4 cap pr day
Fish oil 1000mg 4 caps .
Vit c 6 - 8 tabs .
HCG 250. 10mcg twice weekly and increased to 3 times to the last .

Diet comsisted of
6 scoops of whey protein
20 egg whites .
Chicken Nd beef
Greens .
Ragi flour as snacking mixed with protein.

No oil no carbs no salt

Had done the blood work
Precycle middle and nearly to the end of the cycle .

Stopped my cycle by the 14 week as I'm vexed and frustrated by not getting results and getting injured as I am not recovering properly.
Came OFF OF GEAR COMPLETLY doing workouts without any gear ..

Have to start a PCT..

SHOULD I DO A PCT ??? FOR THIS as I didn't had test at all in my body . Which haven't been utilised at all .

My blood work with LIVER KIDNEY HEAMOGRAM was almost clear and good with minor differences which can be easily sorted out
Apart from my TESTOSTERONE ..WHICH WAS THE MAIN DECIDING FACTOR .


Had I used the fake gear ? Bt the seller says if I prove he vil return all the expenses I spent on him for the products .
Bt I haven't seen any results from any of the combinations by stacking of such compounds .

I hope u veterans and experts can help me sort out this .and show me a way to over come the issues .and guide me for the next successful cycle .
planing to meet the ENDOCRONOLIGIST ( AS HE ASKED ME TO MEET THE DOC )

Bt I really don't understand what's happening with the body ...

By the way I'm 32 . 5.9
75 kilos present from 83-84 .
BF % I'm not sure what I am right now . .
Lifting since 8-10 years naturally .

I'm Gona post this in other forums as we to get more info and feedback

I can send the pictures if any one asks me to do so .

The picture I has SIMPLIFIED it and hand written as it takes a lot of fotos to go through .
ALL THE INFO IN ONE PIC .
hope u ppl don't Laugh at it .

Thank you .


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That was too much for your first cycle, but I don't blame you, I didn't do that much but I went overboard as well. Still try to be reasonable in the future, your body can only put on so much muscle at a time, all the extra gear is unnecessary at your stage.
If you were cutting calories the whole time you're not going to gain much strength/muscle. If you were not doing keto and didn't eat many carbs you're not going to gain much muscle. Both stacked together, I am not surprised you didn't see much results.
You said you did midcycle blood work. That will tell you if your gear is bunk or not. If it wasn't (or of it was just under dosed), you should do pct

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[jack7]

Guys please try to understand my point..
I have used 750mg of test per week .
But my point here is
Why my body haven't utilised the test which I kept inside of the body..
As I was utilised by all others wether it was high dose or low dose ..

Mid cycle blood work total test was 3000 . Free test was 100 more or equal to
Nearly end of the cycle BW total test was 1500 .. free test was 53 .4.

So why is this happening .
Is what I'm seeking from u people


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[Couchlockd]

What was the lab that you used?

Because that's a lot of geer you should have gained easily 20 pounds of lean mass

[jack7]

What was the lab that you used?

Because that's a lot of geer you should have gained easily 20 pounds of lean mass

I'm from India..
Soo the labs are irrelevant bro

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[Couchlockd]

I'm from India..
Soo the labs are irrelevant bro

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Not really, labs from China, Romania, Poland, most of Europe, India are well known and popular in USA.

Like Thaiger, India lab very popular in USA.

[Couchlockd]

I'm going to say your gear was 100% fake, or your diet was terrible, and or training as well

My cycle consisted of..
Anavar 60- 80mgED
Clen 30 mg ED
Winstrol .
Test enanthate 500/week for 5 weeks and then added test prop 700mg pre week after week 7
Proviron 4tabs then increased to 8.
Primobolan 700 week from week 4
Shifted to winstrol liquid 100mg ED
And added maestron from 13week 700mg ED

[jack7]

I'm going to say your gear was 100% fake, or your diet was terrible, and or training as well

Couch I may agree with fake gear.
How can u say my diet was terrible .
Have u read the post of mine completely.

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[jack7]

My only point and what I'm worried about is .

Why body isn't utilising the testosterone unlike others which is give better results

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[redz]

Brutal diet and you need to pick bulk or cut.

[HoldMyBeer]

I'm going to say your gear was 100% fake, or your diet was terrible, and or training as well

The latter is most likely (poor diet and training)
Dude said he got mid cycle bloods but didn't complain about levels

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[redz]

Low fat and low carb???? How are you even confused?

[jack7]

My only point and what I'm worried about is .

Why body isn't utilising the testosterone unlike others which is give better results

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Can anyone give the answer for this ..

I'm getting in necessary answers apart from the point what I asked

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[jack7]

The latter is most likely (poor diet and training)
Dude said he got mid cycle bloods but didn't complain about levels

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I had compared and handwritten all the blood works and posted a pic over there jus check it once .
Then u can ask me anything .


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[jack7]

Low fat and low carb???? How are you even confused?

Do u kno what my cycle is ??
At least ??
Was it a bulk or cut ???
What do u kno ..
And do u kno what compounds I'm using ??

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[redz]

You posted your diet and cycle above. Your diet is amongst the worst I’ve ever seen it appears to be designed to destroy muscle cells.

[Couchlockd]

Couch I may agree with fake gear.
How can u say my diet was terrible .
Have u read the post of mine completely.

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I've read it 4 times through.

It is a terrible diet.in fact, you don't know much about what it takes to build muscle.

Straight protien with not much else is literally pissing money and hard work down the toilet.

Hit the diet and training section

[jack7]

Please can u explain how can u say it's terrible and .
Can u give me a diet plan please .first tell me how it's a bad diet ??
Curious to know

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[Test Monsterone]

If you want to build muscle you need some carbs. Most protein powders have some carbs in them. But you also need some carbs with your meals.

Edit:

Also in before someone tells you to eat beef...

[Couchlockd]

Please can u explain how can u say it's terrible and .
Can u give me a diet plan please .first tell me how it's a bad diet ??
Curious to know

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I'm assuming a languages barrier here.

You don't list how much of what you eat.

Only thing it says is low carb and low fat.

It takes carbs and fats and protein to build muscle.

Calories man calories

[almostgone]

I'm from India..
Soo the labs are irrelevant bro

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Labs are never irrelevant unless faked. I would've expected somewhat better serum T and free T values, but you stated no carbs and no fats in your diet. These are necessary for gains.

You would've gained muscle at the lab values you posted IF your diet was good...even on a basic macro split @ 40/40/20 ratio of protein:carbs:fat.

You stated NO carbs and NO fats, so you just threw away 2 HUGE parts of the macro equation.

Even with an optimized routine, if your diet isn't right, you don't grow optimally.

You stated you ran 30mg of clen per day. Not a chance unless it was totally fake. Clen is dosed in the mcg range.

You are trying to go 2 directions at once by desiring to bulk and cut.

Basically, it is like trying to fit 5 lbs. of crap in a 1 lb. bag....it just won't happen.

I don't mean this in a hostile manner, but I am trying to state it very plainly.

Edit: The decreased lab values at the end of your cycle indicate some part of your gear was bunk, but the T dosages you were running would be more suited to a bulk if it was legit.

[HoldMyBeer]

Please can u explain how can u say it's terrible and .
Can u give me a diet plan please .first tell me how it's a bad diet ??
Curious to know

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If you're not doing a special diet, just do a 40-40-20 ratio. If youre cutting eat at a 500 cal deficit, if you're bulking do a 500cal surplus
I'm fine w whey, a lot of people are not, but 6 is just too much. Lean meats (chicken, beef, eggs, etc). 40% of your caloric intake
Carbs should be complex carbs (sweet potatoes, rice, etc). 40% of your caloric intake
And fats should be healthy fats from dairy, nuts, etc. 20% of your caloric intake.
Idk what your training looks like, but that has to be reasonable as well.
Given your pictures, it doesn't look like you lost any muscle, maybe even put on a bit, which makes me think diet and training is the problem.
Eat that way on your next cycle (or any other reasonable effective diet, check the diet and nutrition thread for ideas), and you will notice a big difference

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[jack7]

Ok thanks to all.
I might have not explained my whole cycle and diet exatly step.by step.
Bt it worked for me .
Bt the whole question here is not about diet or workout routine .

Testosterone was not fully utilised by the body to give desired results inspite of having more test inside the body .
Is what I'm asking .


Any ways I came to a conclusion I don't get the answer ..


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[GearHeaded]

no fat
no carbs
no salt
AND .5mg of Anastrazole per day

no wonder your not growing and the testosterone 'isn't working' , you need estrogen and salt and carbs and fat to grow . you took away everything needed for beneficial water retention and loading of water and glycogen in muscle cells.
your testosterone had nothing to work with. . you likely could of lost muscle doing what you did

[jack7]

What was the lab that you used?

Because that's a lot of geer you should have gained easily 20 pounds of lean mass

Hey bro.
Did u asked me what was the company or which product I used ??

Sorry for that brother my mistake I read it bt assumed to be blood work and reports for testing as we call diagnostic lab so n so n ..
Once again sorry for that.

I'm using SYTHER PHARMA .
That's Bangkok based if I'm not wrong . Purchased from the dealer who sells solely here in India ..
I too never heard of it previously .
Cause i never done my good research on genuine products and sellers over here ..



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[jack7]

no fat
no carbs
no salt
AND .5mg of Anastrazole per day

no wonder your not growing and the testosterone 'isn't working' , you need estrogen and salt and carbs and fat to grow . you took away everything needed for beneficial water retention and loading of water and glycogen in muscle cells.
your testosterone had nothing to work with. . you likely could of lost muscle doing what you did

I read many of ur posts from the forums previously.
Thanks for that reply .
Bt I had been taking fish oil 1000mcg
Dry fruits

And carbs from ragi flour those are millets . .

Bt no salt . As my coach asked me not to take .. To avoid pluffyness and water retention..
As salt attracts water and makes bloated .
So I followed him



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[redz]

Your trainer doesn’t know much if he let you use that diet.

[jack7]

Your trainer doesn’t know much if he let you use that diet.

But seriously I don't no what he has in his mind .
To give this diet to.me ..
I just followed as he s the coach .


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[redz]

At least now you are here and can learn about this stuff.

[HoldMyBeer]

But seriously I don't no what he has in his mind .
To give this diet to.me ..
I just followed as he s the coach .


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Anyone can get a cert to get a trainer. its not hard. I see the trainers at my gym and it frustrates me how bad they are. I got an email asking if I wanted a free training session, I simply replied, "I know more than you."
I seriously cannot stress enough, how bad a LOT of trainers are out there.

[Couchlockd]

But seriously I don't no what he has in his mind .
To give this diet to.me ..
I just followed as he s the coach .


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We will all help out and coach you.

[HoldMyBeer]

Ok thanks to all.
I might have not explained my whole cycle and diet exatly step.by step.
Bt it worked for me .
Bt the whole question here is not about diet or workout routine .

Testosterone was not fully utilised by the body to give desired results inspite of having more test inside the body .
Is what I'm asking .


Any ways I came to a conclusion I don't get the answer ..


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No one answered your question because we all knew what your REAL question should have been. I apologize for not addressing that directly. It is extremely unlikely that test is underutilized. You hear myths of non-responders but the chances of you being that small faction of a percentage is unlikely. It's more likely to be your diet and exercise. Thankfully GH succeeded where I failed!

[jack7]

Anyone can get a cert to get a trainer. its not hard. I see the trainers at my gym and it frustrates me how bad they are. I got an email asking if I wanted a free training session, I simply replied, "I know more than you."
I seriously cannot stress enough, how bad a LOT of trainers are out there.

I do agree with this 200% .


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[jack7]

We will all help out and coach you.

Thanks for the support bro..


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[HoldMyBeer]

But seriously I don't no what he has in his mind .
To give this diet to.me ..
I just followed as he s the coach .


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Speaking of which. I would post his routine he has you on in the "workout and training" thread for critique. If he has you on that diet, I would get a second opinion on his lifting routine just in case.

[jack7]

No one answered your question because we all knew what your REAL question should have been. I apologize for not addressing that directly. It is extremely unlikely that test is underutilized. You hear myths of non-responders but the chances of you being that small faction of a percentage is unlikely. It's more likely to be your diet and exercise. Thankfully GH succeeded where I failed!

Yes he did..
But the real reason why I'm stressing on the same issue is ..

My coach asked me to consult endocrinoloogists as the hormone was not utilised by the body ..

Stating I might or I had a problem with in my body regarding the issue .

Which I didn't agreed with him and I had argument stating the gear was underdosed or faked..(for which he doesn't agree )

And the ENDOCRONOLIGIST says I don't no why it is not utilised or utilising the hormone inside the body.

And giving me free advice not to run gear it's dangerous .
And still I DON'T NO WETHER I HAD ANY INTERNAL ISSUE AS MY BODY IS NOT ACCWPTING THE TEST .

Bt the answers now I got had given me some sort of clarity.

Inspite of spending a lot of MONEY with no result and don't no what the cause is I reached forum..

And here in different forums where I posted the same thread too .
People speak about diet and my workout .
Diet I agree how do they know my how do I do my workout .
And about my language and communication too .
So that all really pissed me off and got irritated ..

But sorry to all of I'm bit rude .bt my intention wasn't to be . Bt may be by the situations and the answers I got made might have made me to be..

We come here to learn from all perspectives and all angels .
As no one is complete with full knowledge .
I would be the first one standing to learn from all of it's genuine .
Without BS..

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[HoldMyBeer]

Yes he did..
But the real reason why I'm stressing on the same issue is ..

My coach asked me to consult endocrinoloogists as the hormone was not utilised by the body ..

Stating I might or I had a problem with in my body regarding the issue .

Which I didn't agreed with him and I had argument stating the gear was underdosed or faked..(for which he doesn't agree )

And the ENDOCRONOLIGIST says I don't no why it is not utilised or utilising the hormone inside the body.

And giving me free advice not to run gear it's dangerous .
And still I DON'T NO WETHER I HAD ANY INTERNAL ISSUE AS MY BODY IS NOT ACCWPTING THE TEST .

Bt the answers now I got had given me some sort of clarity.

Inspite of spending a lot of MONEY with no result and don't no what the cause is I reached forum..

And here in different forums where I posted the same thread too .
People speak about diet and my workout .
Diet I agree how do they know my how do I do my workout .
And about my language and communication too .
So that all really pissed me off and got irritated ..

But sorry to all of I'm bit rude .bt my intention wasn't to be . Bt may be by the situations and the answers I got made might have made me to be..

We come here to learn from all perspectives and all angels .
As no one is complete with full knowledge .
I would be the first one standing to learn from all of it's genuine .
Without BS..

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You're still on your body is not accepting test, instead of the more likely scenario that you didn't eat and train right?
Because some trainer told you that was the case? A trainer we already came to the conclusion he doesn't know what he's talking about?
I give up.

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[almostgone]

Yes he did..
But the real reason why I'm stressing on the same issue is ..

My coach asked me to consult endocrinoloogists as the hormone was not utilised by the body ..

Stating I might or I had a problem with in my body regarding the issue .

Which I didn't agreed with him and I had argument stating the gear was underdosed or faked..(for which he doesn't agree )

And the ENDOCRONOLIGIST says I don't no why it is not utilised or utilising the hormone inside the body.

And giving me free advice not to run gear it's dangerous .
And still I DON'T NO WETHER I HAD ANY INTERNAL ISSUE AS MY BODY IS NOT ACCWPTING THE TEST .

Bt the answers now I got had given me some sort of clarity.

Inspite of spending a lot of MONEY with no result and don't no what the cause is I reached forum..

And here in different forums where I posted the same thread too .
People speak about diet and my workout .
Diet I agree how do they know my how do I do my workout .
And about my language and communication too .
So that all really pissed me off and got irritated ..

But sorry to all of I'm bit rude .bt my intention wasn't to be . Bt may be by the situations and the answers I got made might have made me to be..

We come here to learn from all perspectives and all angels .
As no one is complete with full knowledge .
I would be the first one standing to learn from all of it's genuine .
Without BS..

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Typically people that don't respond to hormones fall under the category of a hyperexcreter, but I don't feel that is the case with you ( just my opinion ).

Towards the end of the cycle you definitely got crap gear, especially the prop I believe.

Your trainer had your body starving for nutrients, electrolytes, and E2. Just a bad situation all around. Still not sure what they were giving you for clen, because you can't run clen @ 30mg/ day.

[jack7]

Typically people that don't respond to hormones fall under the category of a hyperexcreter, but I don't feel that is the case with you ( just my opinion ).

Towards the end of the cycle you definitely got crap gear, especially the prop I believe.

Your trainer had your body starving for nutrients, electrolytes, and E2. Just a bad situation all around. Still not sure what they were giving you for clen, because you can't run clen @ 30mg/ day.

Exactly this is what I expected . Towards the end of the cycle I got the underdosed gear ..

That's the reason. In spite of doing 750 mg per week my total test was just 1500 .

And the other thing was I stopped all the orals like clen anavar and winstrol when I felt bloated and was only on oils .
From the 11th week i guess .
Clen I ran completely that is 3 tabbs daily .sorry with the mcg/mg/ grams thing.

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