Test prop/ proviron as an alternative to tren for an almost - beginner steroid user.

[Testlolblast]

I wanna do my first cutting cycle next summer. I'd like to choose one of the most non - liver toxic, non - cancerogenic, less brain, heart, kidneys damaging compound stack possible.
The goals are: a solid strength increase, a noticeable body fat loss and increase in a lean - dry muscle mass.
I think I'll run prop 150mg/eod and proviron 50mg/ed for 12 weeks, clomid and nolva as the pct. I thought also a lot about adding anavar to the cycle, but it's still liver - toxic so I will not. How about adding t3 as I'm taking t4 on daily basis? Any suggestions?
Well the only thing else is I'm going to buy only a legit gear.

[Windex]

Body fat loss is going to come from training and nutrition the drugs are the last and least important part of the equation.

Skipping 19nor and orals leaves you with Test and EQ in terms of steroids.

There is always a risk cycling, even if it's only Test. Proper education will mitigate the risk but realize nobody is bulletproof.

[Testlolblast]

Well thanks! But however if I choose something additive to a prop cycle, that's not of injectables, isn't proviron an oral aas that could turn out quite beneficial for my needs?

[GearHeaded]

Skipping 19nor and orals leaves you with Test and EQ in terms of steroids.

What about Masteron, Primobolan, Stenbolone, DHB, winstrol oil, etc.. theres quite a few other options even if you remove 19nor and orals

[GearHeaded]

OP, the most "healthy'' steroid to take with the least side effects and dangers, imo, is Primobolan. its even given to premature born infants

[Testlolblast]

OP, the most "healthy'' steroid to take with the least side effects and dangers, imo, is Primobolan. its even given to premature born infants

Even an oral form of it? (Sorry, maybe).
No, I actually had great results at the gym while on proviron for 5 months, that's why I would like to stick to the tested values proven by myself.
Well the main reason I would choose proviron over primobolan is the price: proviron is less expensive than primobolan. Proviron is also more anabolic and shares almost the same androgenic ratio as primo. But, on the other hand primo is said to be the best oral cutting steroid available. Maybe I will choose primo, maybe not, well… I need more opinions about primo acetate vs proviron here.

[Testlolblast]

So, bump!

[fiddlesticks]

Adding in T3 will be a solid help from it's ability to raise free T.

Insulin is another option as well, assuming you don't go hypo it really doesn't have side effects.

TRT dose test, 5iu of insulin and 50mcg of T3 everyday is a damn effective combo with very few sides. Albuterol can also be thrown in if you want strength increases and body fat loss

I think trestolone is a good option for you as well.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Adding in T3 will be a solid help from it's ability to raise free T. this is wrong. T4 and T3 raise SHBG production which would cause less free T

Insulin is another option as well, assuming you don't go hypo it really doesn't have side effects.

TRT dose test, 5iu of insulin and 50mcg of T3 everyday is a damn effective combo with very few sides. Albuterol can also be thrown in if you want strength increases and body fat loss

I think trestolone is a good option for you as well.

https://jme.bioscientifica.com/view/...me/43/1/19.xml

[fiddlesticks]

https://jme.bioscientifica.com/view/...me/43/1/19.xml

There are more studies showing t3 raises test and lowers SHBG which is the only logical way to dictate its actions. I could respond linking a ton of studies showing it raises test but it is not worth.

Low thyroid activity is always associated with low t and high vice versa

[The Deadlifting Dog]

There are more studies showing t3 raises test and lowers SHBG which is the only logical way to dictate its actions. I could respond linking a ton of studies showing it raises test but it is not worth.

Low thyroid activity is always associated with low t and high vice versa

your understanding of thyroid function and testosterone is flawed.
In people with both Low T and hypothyroidism, correcting the hypothyroidism may increase testosterone production.

That doesn't mean someone with normal hormone levels will start producing more testosterone if they start taking extra T3.

And even more so..

That doesn't mean that someone on cycle, and thus not producing testosterone, is going to magically start producing testosterone because they take extra T3.

[fiddlesticks]

your understanding of thyroid function and testosterone is flawed.
In people with both Low T and hypothyroidism, correcting the hypothyroidism may increase testosterone production.

That doesn't mean someone with normal hormone levels will start producing more testosterone if they start taking extra T3.

And even more so..

That doesn't mean that someone on cycle, and thus not producing testosterone, is going to magically start producing testosterone because they take extra T3.

Its literally impossible for either of the things we have said to 100% be true, all we can do is guess.

And actually yes, T3 does directly stimulate test, i know someone that went from 200 to 900 from T3. Their T was 600 prior to cycling test. Thats equal to about 150mg a week from purely T3

Another factor in the equation is multiple studies show SHBG actually increases total test activity.

[Testlolblast]

Ok, I have decided to run a two - compound cycle which consists mainly of test prop 150mg eod and then of either proviron 50mg ed or primo ace 50mg (proviron vs primo, so which better to add?). Still dunno if I should add t3 because I'm already on the therapeutic dose of t4 daily? PCT: clomid/nolva, I think I don't need hcg.

Your opinions?

[Jayd85]

Ok, I have decided to run a two - compound cycle which consists mainly of test prop 150mg eod and then of either proviron 50mg ed or primo ace 50mg (proviron vs primo, so which better to add?). Still dunno if I should add t3 because I'm already on the therapeutic dose of t4 daily? PCT: clomid/nolva, I think I don't need hcg.

Your opinions?

I see you’ve already decided but I’ll give my two cents regardless. I just ran DHB and enjoyed the results. It was supposed to be a bulk and turned recomp. It’d be a great addition for a cut in my opinion.

[fiddlesticks]

Ok, I have decided to run a two - compound cycle which consists mainly of test prop 150mg eod and then of either proviron 50mg ed or primo ace 50mg (proviron vs primo, so which better to add?). Still dunno if I should add t3 because I'm already on the therapeutic dose of t4 daily? PCT: clomid/nolva, I think I don't need hcg.

Your opinions?

T3 blows T4 out of the water quite dramatically. In my own very extensive thyroid experience, 50mcg T3 is equal to at least 400mcg T4 and has a much higher chance of absorbing correctly. The 4 to 1 ratio people commonly quote isn't even that good, sorry T4...

DHT compounds will definitely increase free T3 levels by themself but adding a little 25mcg of T3 would absolutely speed up fat loss, always will really. Only real potential con of T3 is it will make stimulants much more potent and might cause someone with a weak CV system problems so if that's you watch out. From personal experience you do NOT want research liquid T3 either, it really doesn't distribute evenly, get pharm pills and put them inside a capsule to make them absorb better. This makes a massive difference, in my experience I can get away using 10mcg T3 doses instead of a typical 25 with the capsule thing, dunno whats going on with that.


In reality the most ideal thing would be getting a script for like 50mcg t3 a day though, if you start taking T3 you're pretty much gonna always need it at that point. Your natural production will come back but it won't be nearly as great as exogenous.

[Testlolblast]

Thank you about the useful t3 info. But I think I'm going to exclude t3 from my cycle: I get heart palpitations and fast heart rate even of only doubling my therapeutical dose of t4.

[fiddlesticks]

Thank you about the useful t3 info. But I think I'm going to exclude t3 from my cycle: I get heart palpitations and fast heart rate even of only doubling my therapeutical dose of t4.

T3 will definitely put a beating on you if T4 causes problems.

[Testlolblast]

T3 will definitely put a beating on you if T4 causes problems.

Ok, thanks! Just one more question: if proviron compared to primo ace, which of these is more suppressive of natural gonadotropin production?

[Couchlockd]

OP, the most "healthy'' steroid to take with the least side effects and dangers, imo, is Primobolan. its even given to premature born infants

I'm sold even more than before.


I don't think there is anything or any stack that will do what Tren does, and if you find a magical combo of drugs to fill trenz role, you may be in for more sides than Tren would bring on it's own.

[Testlolblast]

So now here's advice to try tren??
Well, I have got recommendations from many people here not to use tren because I'm bipolar and also not experienced steroid user and now after doing more research I fully rely on them.
Again, I think I'll stick with milder compounds like test prop, proviron, or even maybe primo ace to build up the steroid cycle for the cutting purposes. Yeah, even milder ones have side effects but the bad sides are not so noticeable as being on extremelly strong androgenic - anabolic compounds that could screw up androgen receptor function more drasistically, especially if the person is also quite sensitive to androgens. That's why I think I should stay away from tren for good.

[Testlolblast]

Well, Couchlockd, I'm sorry for being rude. I just wanted to express my opinion on what I think I should run or not on my forthcoming aas cycle. There was no thought to make any offense in my previous post.

[Testlolblast]

That's it I have finally chosen all the compounds for this cutting cycle. They are: test prop / proviron. I excluded primo ace because it's damn expensive and I just can't afford it as one of my cycle ingredients. Well, I also think there would be absolutely no need for AI during this cycle. But, yes I also will need clomid and nolva for the pct. Again I will buy only the compounds manufactured by reputable, legit brands there are going to be no ugls as a choice!

Also, I would like to thank everyone for the useful answers posted previously in this thread, so yeah thank you all so much!

[Couchlockd]

Well, Couchlockd, I'm sorry for being rude. I just wanted to express my opinion on what I think I should run or not on my forthcoming aas cycle. There was no thought to make any offense in my previous post.

No rudeness cane across.

I was saying I was sold on primo.

As far as Tren, yeah if bipolar or something, I'd avoid it. I'm avoiding Tren myself till I absolutely have to.

What I mean is if you start stacking things to try to accomplish what Tren will do, you'll be using high high doses of other things and may end up with worse sides than Tren will bring.

You can try lots of mast mixed with npp. I don't really know ..

[balance]

I excluded primo ace because it's damn expensive and I just can't afford it as one of my cycle ingredients.)

I see this mentioned so often in reference to primo (along with questionable authenticity of primo). Here’s the thing if you ran test E/C vs test P you could likely easily afford to add primo to the cycle. Also worth mentioning afaik running primo vs test mg for mg is less likely to require an ai. This is just my understanding and folks a lot more knowledgeable than I may or may not confirm this.

I believe the choice you have selected with test P and proviron is very sound, especially in reference to your personal considerations. I just wanted to point out that primo is not necessarily all that expensive vs running solely test P.

[Testlolblast]

Thanks a lot again!
The fact is I'm a seasonal worker and by the time being I'm furloughed because here was no work to do during the winter at the workplace. So I have to wait at least till the early spring to go back to work. If everything is going to be fine the money to run this cycle should be stashed in the autumn, because it is not the only one I have to spend money for.