Gyno issue, estrogen or prolactin related?

[davekid1294]

So I have been getting ready for my next cycle. Finished my last one in October of 2018. Ran 500 test e and 300 tren e for 10 weeks along with 11 mg exemestane tabs eod, never had any estrogen related side effects in previous cycles but started to develop a small lump under both nipples towards week 6 or 7. Both went away after PCT and within the last few weeks its flared up and been super sensitive along with getting the bumps back.

I assumed that since I never had any estrogen related side effects it was probably the tren causing this still?

Any other thoughts on what I should do to reverse this or if i need to hold off on this next cycle? was planning the same 500 test e 300 tren e adding in winny the last 4 weeks.

Let me know any suggestions!

[ShootingAcez]

It's first and foremost still from the estrogen. Taking Tren makes the estrogen receptors in the breast tissue more sensitive and over excited, which is most likely why you developed Breast tissue even with the Aromasin. Nolvadex at 40mg for the first week, and then 20mg until the bumps are gone is generally the recommended protocol for Gyno.

Somebody feel free to shoot me down if I'm completely wrong, but this is the simplified version of what I've taken from a lot of posts and research.

[ShootingAcez]

Did you get any blood work done midway into that cycle?

[davekid1294]

No did not midway. I was stupid & did not get any after cycle either because I felt completely fine. No gyno issue, erections were hard, generally just felt good.
Know now that was probably stupid, but I did not start having these gyno issues until about beginning of January and by that point i had been off cycle 2 months

[ShootingAcez]

No did not midway. I was stupid & did not get any after cycle either because I felt completely fine. No gyno issue, erections were hard, generally just felt good.
Know now that was probably stupid, but I did not start having these gyno issues until about beginning of January and by that point i had been off cycle 2 months

2 months post cycle is also a recommended time to get bw done, in order to see how your body is recovering. Would be a good way to find out how your test/estro ratio is.
So the Gyno started week 6-7 on your cycle. Symptoms went away after PCT, and then came back? I presume now that the bumps are there, they are extra sensitive to estrogen. What's your body fat % at?
Presumably best course of action would be to take Nolvadex at the above mentioned dosages.

[davekid1294]

Bumps are there, around same size they were week 7 of that cycle. Body fat sitting around 13%, I'm pretty lean year round.
I'll have some nolvadex by the end of this week to go on with that 40 mg week, 20 mg after that was talked about above

[ShootingAcez]

I'm not too sure why it would've flared back up at that point. I'd be interested to know what caused it to act up. Hopefully someone else chimes in to give some incite.

[davekid1294]

I figured I would get some blood work done this week too to maybe give some insight into the reasoning behind it. thanks for your input though!

[ShootingAcez]

I figured I would get some blood work done this week too to maybe give some insight into the reasoning behind it. thanks for your input though!

Definitely get that bw done to check out what's going on. Not a problem!

[AlphaMindz]

It's almost ALWAYS estrogen causing gyno issues. Good call Acez. Tren is a progestin and I don't remember the science and too lazy to google right now but as Acez mentioned there's more activity at the estrogen receptor due to the prolactin increase but it all centers around estrogen. So, for the most part, control e2 and the secondary hormones will follow suite....although sometimes we will need something extra like proviron or possibly caber if necessary (i feel that many people run caber when it isnt necessary) imo.

[David LoPan]

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...nce-guide.html
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-reversal.html

Here are two good reads for you. Should answer your questions. How many cycles have your run? Tren is not a joke. Most say that it is best to have a few cycles of test before adding other compounds in your cycle. What were you results of your last cycle? How much gains did you keep? What are your goals?

[GearHeaded]

It's almost ALWAYS estrogen causing gyno issues. Good call Acez. Tren is a progestin and I don't remember the science and too lazy to google right now but as Acez mentioned there's more activity at the estrogen receptor due to the prolactin increase but it all centers around estrogen. So, for the most part, control e2 and the secondary hormones will follow suite....although sometimes we will need something extra like proviron or possibly caber if necessary (i feel that many people run caber when it isnt necessary) imo.

just a couple of add ons here..

yes gyno is always estrogen related. even if you ran a Tren only cycle, and tren does not convert to etrogen, you could still get "tren gyno" from estrogen.
and it is because Tren is a progestin. its not necessarily going to increase prolactin though . lots of guys think they have elevated prolactin sides and get blood work done and find prolactin is not elevated. its just simply because Tren can act on the progesterone receptors just like progesterone itself.
so your going to be extra sensitive to estrogen, especially in breast tissue. heck even if you had low or normal estrogen levels, you could still get gyno.
an AI will do nothing to help here (all an AI does is keep test from converting to estrogen , it does not block existing estrogens at the receptors).

so what you would need is Nolvadex and Masteron (mast means "breast") which will blunt both progestin and estrogen receptors in breast tissue.
thats all you need. again an AI does not help here as this can happen no matter if you E levels were normal or high.
progesterone is NOT going to follow E2 in this case.. as by injecting Tren your essentially injecting a progestin to act on progestin receptors anyways.
all an AI will really do is possibly cause other issues.

this is a unique thing to Tren itself. with other compounds and other cycles controlling estrogen with an AI can definitely help prevent gyno to a degree.
Tren on the other hand is a double edged sword. it can illicit estrogenic side effects with normal serum levels of estrogen, yet it also needs estrogen in order to illicit some of its positive benefits. also, low blood serum levels of estrogen while on tren can cause tren dick.

[AlphaMindz]

just a couple of add ons here..

yes gyno is always estrogen related. even if you ran a Tren only cycle, and tren does not convert to etrogen, you could still get "tren gyno" from estrogen.
and it is because Tren is a progestin. its not necessarily going to increase prolactin though . lots of guys think they have elevated prolactin sides and get blood work done and find prolactin is not elevated. its just simply because Tren can act on the progesterone receptors just like progesterone itself.
so your going to be extra sensitive to estrogen, especially in breast tissue. heck even if you had low or normal estrogen levels, you could still get gyno.
an AI will do nothing to help here (all an AI does is keep test from converting to estrogen , it does not block existing estrogens at the receptors).

so what you would need is Nolvadex and Masteron (mast means "breast") which will blunt both progestin and estrogen receptors in breast tissue.
thats all you need. again an AI does not help here as this can happen no matter if you E levels were normal or high.
progesterone is NOT going to follow E2 in this case.. as by injecting Tren your essentially injecting a progestin to act on progestin receptors anyways.
all an AI will really do is possibly cause other issues.

this is a unique thing to Tren itself. with other compounds and other cycles controlling estrogen with an AI can definitely help prevent gyno to a degree.
Tren on the other hand is a double edged sword. it can illicit estrogenic side effects with normal serum levels of estrogen, yet it also needs estrogen in order to illicit some of its positive benefits. also, low blood serum levels of estrogen while on tren can cause tren dick.

Interesting....makes sense. Is this the case with nandrolone as well?

[GearHeaded]

Interesting....makes sense. Is this the case with nandrolone as well?

Anecdotal evidence, not so much . this seems to be somewhat of a unique thing with Tren (though Deca has some similar aspects as a progestin as well).

keep in mind that often times guys throw Deca, NPP, and Tren all in the same category as 19 nors , or 'nandrolone' in general. But tren is NOT nandrolone. Tren is nandrolone derived (deca itself IS nandrolone).
so its going to be much different in the body then actual nandrolone itself. Just like Dbol, being Testosterone derived, in the body is no longer test. just like Winstrol being DHT derived is no longer DHT (it by its very nature is already 5 reductase reduced and thus can no longer be in the body).

so Tren is unique from nandrolone and 19 nor test, in that it is derived from this . it is not a 'nandrolone' its a derivative of such.
this is a minor point, but worth bringing up

[AlphaMindz]

Anecdotal evidence, not so much . this seems to be somewhat of a unique thing with Tren (though Deca has some similar aspects as a progestin as well).

keep in mind that often times guys throw Deca, NPP, and Tren all in the same category as 19 nors , or 'nandrolone' in general. But tren is NOT nandrolone. Tren is nandrolone derived (deca itself IS nandrolone).
so its going to be much different in the body then actual nandrolone itself. Just like Dbol, being Testosterone derived, in the body is no longer test. just like Winstrol being DHT derived is no longer DHT (it by its very nature is already 5 reductase reduced and thus can no longer be in the body).

so Tren is unique from nandrolone and 19 nor test, in that it is derived from this . it is not a 'nandrolone' its a derivative of such.
this is a minor point, but worth bringing up

Good stuff man thanks for clearing that up.