Test E + stanozolol cycle help

[bobspix]

Hey guys,
I want to cycle Test-E and stanozolol, going for the ripped look and cut down some bf%.
Test E @500mg/week for 10 weeks
Stana injectable to be added after 6 weeks @ 25mg/daily
HCG 500 I.U/week from weeks 1-10.
NAC @600mg/daily for liver support.
PCT Nolva and clomid.
My stats are :
Age 23
Height 5'9
Weight 75kgs/ 165lbs
Bf - 15% maybe lower because I can now see my abs.
I know my diet's gonna dictate my cut and fat loss so I am on a deficit and will do brisk walking for 20 mins daily as cardio.
Please critique my cycle this is going to be my first cycle and I also know first one should be strictly Test cycle but I don't think I could achieve quality muscle and fat loss both with test only.
I have been asking for cycle advice for two years on this forum now and have always been turned down for being too young but not this time lol I am 23.

Just wanna ask if stanozolol dosage and duration is fine or not.

[The God Himself]

I don't know whether this is your cycle but I would suggest upping your NAC dosage. People will comment about other aspects of your cycle so stay tuned for useful information.

[Windex]

Hey guys,
I want to cycle Test-E and stanozolol, going for the ripped look and cut down some bf%.
Test E @500mg/week for 10 weeks
Stana injectable to be added after 6 weeks @ 25mg/daily
HCG 500 I.U/week from weeks 1-10.
NAC @600mg/daily for liver support.
PCT Nolva and clomid.
My stats are :
Age 23
Height 5'9
Bf - 15% maybe lower because I can now see my abs.
I know my diet's gonna dictate my cut and fat loss so I am on a deficit and will do brisk walking for 20 mins daily as cardio.
Please critique my cycle this is going to be my first cycle and I also know first one should be strictly Test cycle but I don't think I could achieve quality muscle and fat loss both with test only.
I have been asking for cycle advice for two years on this forum now and have always been turned down for being too young but not this time lol I am 23.

Just wanna ask if stanozolol dosage and duration is fine or not.

A 20 minute brisk walk once a day is not a cardio session lol...

The logic of Test not being enough when you've never even done a Test only cycle doesn't make sense. You are already creating a mental roadblock with the "more drugs" mindset.

There's nothing "wrong" persay with 2 compounds in a first cycle. But your approach to why you think you need 2 drugs is the problem.

People recomp with Test only cycles all the time and gain muscle + lose fat. There's an easy 100 threads in the cycle subsection of people's Test only cycles.

Injectable Winny is not a good choice on a first cycle because you are not going to be able to handle the PIP that comes with it and having virgin muscle that's never seen a needle before. The dosage is halfway between a women's and mans dosage.

There is a lot more to diet than just being in a caloric deficit.

[GearHeaded]

Please critique my cycle this is going to be my first cycle and I also know first one should be strictly Test cycle but I don't think I could achieve quality muscle and fat loss both with test only.

I personally agree with you. I think there are a lot better choices for a first cycle then 'test only' cycles.
Winstrol, Tbol, Primobolan, EQ, Anavar .. are all better first cycle choices then a 'test only' first cycle. however, absolutely nothing wrong with running test for a first cycle. I just think you can get cleaner, more efficient, more side effect free results running purely anabolics for your first several cycles before you go messing with androgens like test and tren.
theres a reason why women start off with anabolics and only run androgens later on in their career after they are more advanced (if ever).

IF you were after mass gains though . combining anabolics, androgens, and estrogen is going to be your best bet. 500mg of test isn't a bad starting point.

but the idea of 500mg 'test only' cycle as a hard and fast rule for a first cycle is something you find on online forums over the last decade maybe.. and not something you find in AAS usage in sports, bodybuilding, etc.. for the last 50 years. "test only" first cycle rule isn't a "rule" in real life in the trenches. its something forum parrots advocate. now test only cycles can work great , but they are by no means a 'rule' for first cycles . look at the history of AAS use in sports and test only cycles are unheard of for the most part (heck, Arnold never even used Test, let alone "test only" cycles)

[ShootingAcez]

I don't know whether this is your cycle but I would suggest upping your NAC dosage. People will comment about other aspects of your cycle so stay tuned for useful information.

I agree. Your NAC should be around 1500mg/day.

since you're using Enanthate ester, a 12 week cycle would be more appropriate. If you prefer shorter cycles, then I would use Test Prop and shorten the cycle to 8 weeks, with pinning every other day.
Your Winstrol dosage looks good, just make sure to alternate injection sites.

Note: On days when injections for your Test and Winny line up, you can draw both compounds into the same syringe, and pin them both at the same time.

If you aren't estrogen sensitive, you should be fine, but if you are, I would include Aromasin (Exemenstane) from day 1 at 12.5mg EOD, or Arimidex at 0.25mg EOD. Like I said though, you may not need it, but being your first cycle, having it on hand would be great.

And yes, I'd recommend you wait a few more years for your system to mature, but I was stubborn at your age as well, so instead of arguing with you, I'd rather keep you cycling safely, rather than idiotically.

If you're cutting, make sure your at a 15-20% caloric deficit. 20 mins of "brisk walking" isn't going to cut it. HIIT Cardio works really well, and I'd be doing that 3 times a week, fasted, in the mornings if possible.

You're 5'9, but what's your weight?

[Windex]

Looks like OP got the answer he wanted to hear.

[GearHeaded]

Whelp my prior post has a lot less value when OP got the Disneyland answer he was looking for.

"Disneyland answer" .. lol. how about historical FACT. Test only first cycles are a modern phenomenon advocated by guys on forums with no real experience . talk to someone who has spent 25 years working with olympic athletes, power lifters, and high level bodybuilders, and you'll realize "test only" first cycles are fairly rare and not often suggested (except by online forum parrots)

[Windex]

"Disneyland answer" .. lol. how about historical FACT. Test only first cycles are a modern phenomenon advocated by guys on forums with no real experience . talk to someone who has spent 25 years working with olympic athletes, power lifters, and high level bodybuilders, and you'll realize "test only" first cycles are fairly rare and not often suggested (except by online forum parrots)

Never said that Test Only was the only option.

[GearHeaded]

Never said that Test Only was the only option.

I wasn't referring to you or saying that you specifically did suggest test only as the only option . I'm talking in general, that the consensus online on forums is that test only is the only valid first cycle option.. where as in the world of actual 'real athletes' with real coaches (not a bunch guys with dad bods on TRT on a forum), in the world of AAS for sports performance ,, test only first cycles are not generally recommended or used.

now sure test only first cycles can work great. its just the IDEA that a test only first cycle is a hard and fast rule that I have a problem with.. cause that rule does not exist in the real world of sports and AAS usage, it only exists on online forums filled with guys on TRT that happen to think that test is the best thing since sliced bread, being they ended up with a script for it (and that somehow makes them an expert).

take this same guy (who is an expert on AAS being he is now on TRT) and give him 50 athletes that he needs to coach and instruct them and give them protocols for their 'performance enhancement' . he goes and gives them all 500mg Test only cycles with the standard .25mg arimdex, and he is going to have a disaster on his hands.

test only first cycles are an "option", and often times not even a good option or even close. yet on online forums 'test only' is an actual standard practice and "rule" for all first cycles .

[bobspix]

- Okay I will go for a hiit session instead 3x a week
- No I don't have any problem with running test only cycle neither do I think more drugs are gonna cut it but instead I just included stanozolol because I think it's gonna give me results I am going for.
-I have no problem in dropping the idea of using stanozolol if my test weeks are giving me the desired results. (I will try my best to make it give me the desired result )
-That's on me lol I will ice it all day

[bobspix]

- Okay I will go for a hiit session instead 3x a week
- No I don't have any problem with running test only cycle neither do I think more drugs are gonna cut it but instead I just included stanozolol because I think it's gonna give me results I am going for.
-I have no problem in dropping the idea of using stanozolol if my test weeks are giving me the desired results. (I will try my best to make it give me the desired result )
-That's on me lol I will ice it all day

For mr windex

[bobspix]

I personally agree with you. I think there are a lot better choices for a first cycle then 'test only' cycles.
Winstrol, Tbol, Primobolan, EQ, Anavar .. are all better first cycle choices then a 'test only' first cycle. however, absolutely nothing wrong with running test for a first cycle. I just think you can get cleaner, more efficient, more side effect free results running purely anabolics for your first several cycles before you go messing with androgens like test and tren.
theres a reason why women start off with anabolics and only run androgens later on in their career after they are more advanced (if ever).

IF you were after mass gains though . combining anabolics, androgens, and estrogen is going to be your best bet. 500mg of test isn't a bad starting point.

but the idea of 500mg 'test only' cycle as a hard and fast rule for a first cycle is something you find on online forums over the last decade maybe.. and not something you find in AAS usage in sports, bodybuilding, etc.. for the last 50 years. "test only" first cycle rule isn't a "rule" in real life in the trenches. its something forum parrots advocate. now test only cycles can work great , but they are by no means a 'rule' for first cycles . look at the history of AAS use in sports and test only cycles are unheard of for the most part (heck, Arnold never even used Test, let alone "test only" cycles)

Thanks for your insight I expected to be bashed for having two compounds for my first time lol

[GearHeaded]

I would really like to find the guy that originally invented all these little steroid forum "Rules" that are so popular and well spread and parroted so often. I'll bet he's just an OG in the TRT world or some trt doc that was progressive and began selling testosterone and AI's. and got online and propagated a bunch of his stuff to sell more Testosterone and AI's .
some of the most common "rules"
- Test is best
- Test only first cycle
- AI's are mandatory for every cycle

these rules make a lot of sense for a doc that can primarily only sell test and AI's . he's not selling winstrol and Tbol. of course he's not going to advice guys run that stuff.


makes a lot of sense to me that the original propagandist of all these 'rules' was probably a guy like this.

because when you actually talk to any 'gurus' who worked in the world of AAS, before TRT clinics become all the rage, you never heard of any of these 'rules' .. "test only" cycles and over use of AI's were never a thing


sorry, now I'm just ranting and thinking out loud here

[bobspix]

I agree. Your NAC should be around 1500mg/day.

since you're using Enanthate ester, a 12 week cycle would be more appropriate. If you prefer shorter cycles, then I would use Test Prop and shorten the cycle to 8 weeks, with pinning every other day.
Your Winstrol dosage looks good, just make sure to alternate injection sites.

Note: On days when injections for your Test and Winny line up, you can draw both compounds into the same syringe, and pin them both at the same time.

If you aren't estrogen sensitive, you should be fine, but if you are, I would include Aromasin (Exemenstane) from day 1 at 12.5mg EOD, or Arimidex at 0.25mg EOD. Like I said though, you may not need it, but being your first cycle, having it on hand would be great.

And yes, I'd recommend you wait a few more years for your system to mature, but I was stubborn at your age as well, so instead of arguing with you, I'd rather keep you cycling safely, rather than idiotically.

If you're cutting, make sure your at a 15-20% caloric deficit. 20 mins of "brisk walking" isn't going to cut it. HIIT Cardio works really well, and I'd be doing that 3 times a week, fasted, in the mornings if possible.

You're 5'9, but what's your weight?

- Got it. Will up the NAC dosage.
- I can't go for t.prop since the cycle overlaps with my exams and I am afraid I cannot afford to worry about daily injections.
- Is it alright to get them in the same barrel since stana is white and thick?
- I will definitely keep the necessary drugs on hand and will start once everything is in place.
-will include HIIT 3x a week. Great advice. I was already cutting and brisk walk did get me down a lot. Maybe Because I was higher.
-Thanks for understanding
- Oh yes, I weigh 75kgs

[Windex]

- Okay I will go for a hiit session instead 3x a week
- No I don't have any problem with running test only cycle neither do I think more drugs are gonna cut it but instead I just included stanozolol because I think it's gonna give me results I am going for.
-I have no problem in dropping the idea of using stanozolol if my test weeks are giving me the desired results. (I will try my best to make it give me the desired result )
-That's on me lol I will ice it all day

Ice isn't really going to fix the problem. If you are dead set on a second compound that's fine but it shouldn't be injectable Winny imo. A suspension based product injected every day is really just not a smart idea on a first cycle.

at the end of the day your results are going to be dictated by your diet and training.

[bobspix]

I would really like to find the guy that originally invented all these little steroid forum "Rules" that are so popular and well spread and parroted so often. I'll bet he's just an OG in the TRT world or some trt doc that was progressive and began selling testosterone and AI's. and got online and propagated a bunch of his stuff to sell more Testosterone and AI's .
some of the most common "rules"
- Test is best
- Test only first cycle
- AI's are mandatory for every cycle

these rules make a lot of sense for a doc that can primarily only sell test and AI's . he's not selling winstrol and Tbol. of course he's not going to advice guys run that stuff.


makes a lot of sense to me that the original propagandist of all these 'rules' was probably a guy like this.

because when you actually talk to any 'gurus' who worked in the world of AAS, before TRT clinics become all the rage, you never heard of any of these 'rules' .. "test only" cycles and over use of AI's were never a thing


sorry, now I'm just ranting and thinking out loud here

A friend of mine I introduced to this forum ran his first cycle of Test-e only with an A.I and never felt good in his cycle. He used to stay irritated, low and just didn't feel that good on test that's why I didn't include it in my cycle but would surely keep it on hand.

[bobspix]

Ice isn't really going to fix the problem. If you are dead set on a second compound that's fine but it shouldn't be injectable Winny imo. A suspension based product injected every day is really just not a smart idea on a first cycle.

at the end of the day your results are going to be dictated by your diet and training.

What other compound do you propose instead? Or are you an advocate of test only as first cycle? (Not being rude)

[bobspix]

One other thing, how to look for gyno like the symptoms and prevention. If it comes to that I am thinking of running nolvadex (??mgs/ed) until the symptoms disappear or Raloxidene (evista) @60mgs/ed

[redz]

Cutting with 20 minute walks isn’t going to happen. I do 45 minutes elliptical 6 times a week and have been doing this for 7 of the last 8 months. Regardless of compounds you need to train for results.

[GearHeaded]

keep in mind that Testosterone is NOT an anabolic steroid. its a naturally occurring male androgen. . now sure it has lots of benefits and does lots of things, but it was never designed from scratch for the sole purpose of being anabolic and building muscle tissue in specific ways (like steroids were).

Testosterone, nearly 100 years or so ago, was synthesized from dog piss. yes, dog piss. again, test is just a naturally occurring hormone. its nothing fancy.

now take Primobolan in comparison. That took years and years of sophisticated research and science and chemical analysis etc. to come up with an actual "drug" that can bind to certain receptors in the body and tell them to build muscle.
very hi tech if you were to look into it.


so a 'test only' cycle is just taking some hormone you have in your body, and giving you more of it. its like a woman saying to herself, I want to bodybuild so I should give myself more estrogen.. Test was very accessible in the 60, 70s, 80s. but why did most bodybuilders stray away from it (let alone only use test only cycles) ? because they never considered it a muscle building anabolic steroid. it was just a basic hormone men already had. Arnold won 7 mr Olympia titles running just Primobolan and Dbol (no test). he chose to run steroids, not a naturally occurring male androgen.
note: now sure, very early on olympic athletes starting using Test to improve performance (1950s).. but it was very soon after that that science went to working on making things much better then Test. they seen how inefficient test only was and thought they could do much much better (and they have)


now days we have a ton more information.. and as simple and petty as test is , we see it can have plenty of benefits in bodybuilding. the thing is, actual 'steroids' are better and not only that, they make the test your using work better and with fewer side effects.

this is why I advocate for doing what your doing OP, and running more then just a 'test only' first cycle and adding in the actual anabolic steroid to the mix . steroids make Test work better with less side effects.

Tbol, Var, Winstrol, Primobolan, Masteron ,, for example. are all going to provide an actual 'pure' anabolic effect to your cycle , while at the same time mitigating some of the negative aspects of high test , And yet making that test work better and more efficiently
(I can explain how these compounds do this if need be)


so adding Winstrol to your first cycle , makes it an actual real 'steroid' cycle , imo. with added benefits


running a test only cycle as a first cycle , is similar to taking your 15 year old kid for his first diving lesson, but doing it in a 1930s ford model T manual transmission . sure he will learn to drive.. but may get way better and safer results using a modern car with all the safety security and technology .
actual steroids were designed with an intended purpose.. Test is just archaic and synthesized from dog piss


^ having said all that , I often times run 1500mg of "synthesized dog piss'' per week . theres a use for testosterone for sure ! its just not the end all be all and works much better when used with actual anabolic steroids

[bobspix]

Cutting with 20 minute walks isn’t going to happen. I do 45 minutes elliptical 6 times a week and have been doing this for 7 of the last 8 months. Regardless of compounds you need to train for results.

Thanks. Will surely consider better cardio!

[The God Himself]

Dont ice it, apply heat instead

[GearHeaded]

heres an example from the real world.. I got a client who's a member here. he is somewhat new to AAS use, but has been on TRT for quite some time (like 150mg per week) . well when doing his first cycle , the majority of the online parrots would of suggested he take 500mg of test per week.
well, thats not a cycle. thats just a higher dose TRT .

so we kept his TRT as TRT. and put together and actual "cycle". we wanted to get all the results of say running 1500mg per week of test, but with none of the bullshit.
So we 'stacked' things one by one..

- first we added anabolics. 20mg of LGD40 and 50mg of VAR. together this is about as potent of an anabolic as 1500mg of test.
- then we wanted to get androgenic like effects for the fat burning. but without adding any test. so we stacked Clenbuterol and T3 (these two together will ramp up the metabolism and promote lipolysis in a similar way as a high dose androgen would).
- Then at the very end of this cycle, instead of adding any test at all (stayed just on TRT), we wanted to add both a strong anabolic and combined androgenic load (which could be done by running very high dosages of test) with great nutrient partitioning effects.. so we added very very low dose Tren . 20mg three times per week is all . no side effects from that, but he blew up with more muscle and fullness quite easy.

so we never once had to mess with 'test only' at all . but got way way better results then what 500mg of test would of yielded for him (we know this because he tried a test only cycle before when first getting on tRT and got crap for results)

[GearHeaded]

OP - if your Winstrol is water based, and not oil base.. you can swallow it like an oral. you may end up wanting to do that instead of injecting daily. depends on how you manage the PIP on your first cycle. personally I'd of suggested going with Winstrol tabs

[Family_guy]

I agree. Your NAC should be around 1500mg/day.

since you're using Enanthate ester, a 12 week cycle would be more appropriate. If you prefer shorter cycles, then I would use Test Prop and shorten the cycle to 8 weeks, with pinning every other day.
Your Winstrol dosage looks good, just make sure to alternate injection sites.

Note: On days when injections for your Test and Winny line up, you can draw both compounds into the same syringe, and pin them both at the same time.

If you aren't estrogen sensitive, you should be fine, but if you are, I would include Aromasin (Exemenstane) from day 1 at 12.5mg EOD, or Arimidex at 0.25mg EOD. Like I said though, you may not need it, but being your first cycle, having it on hand would be great.

And yes, I'd recommend you wait a few more years for your system to mature, but I was stubborn at your age as well, so instead of arguing with you, I'd rather keep you cycling safely, rather than idiotically.

If you're cutting, make sure your at a 15-20% caloric deficit. 20 mins of "brisk walking" isn't going to cut it. HIIT Cardio works really well, and I'd be doing that 3 times a week, fasted, in the mornings if possible.

You're 5'9, but what's your weight?

I don’t think it’s a good idea to add the ai from day one. Think about it it will take a while for test levels to rise anyways. Plus doesn’t winstrol have some sort of Anti estrogen effect? I am a firm believer in not running AIs unless absolutely necessary. 500mg Test per week isn’t all that much especially not until he knows how he will feel. All the research I’ve read about just how terrible AIs are for you in general(lipids, brain chemistry, etc) plus the anabolic effect of estrogen and my personal experience with NO AIs lead me to strongly believe that AIs are rarely necessary

[Family_guy]

I would really like to find the guy that originally invented all these little steroid forum "Rules" that are so popular and well spread and parroted so often. I'll bet he's just an OG in the TRT world or some trt doc that was progressive and began selling testosterone and AI's. and got online and propagated a bunch of his stuff to sell more Testosterone and AI's .
some of the most common "rules"
- Test is best
- Test only first cycle
- AI's are mandatory for every cycle

these rules make a lot of sense for a doc that can primarily only sell test and AI's . he's not selling winstrol and Tbol. of course he's not going to advice guys run that stuff.


makes a lot of sense to me that the original propagandist of all these 'rules' was probably a guy like this.

because when you actually talk to any 'gurus' who worked in the world of AAS, before TRT clinics become all the rage, you never heard of any of these 'rules' .. "test only" cycles and over use of AI's were never a thing


sorry, now I'm just ranting and thinking out loud here

I’d love to find out who that guy was who started all these “rules” too!! The same guy that came up with the totally arbitrary 12 week cycle. Why would 12 weeks be ideal?? If you’re shutdown then you’re shutdown right? So why not maximize your Gains by running a much longer cycle say 6-9 months and only pct once per year. That makes so much sense to me! Thanks Gear!

I’m glad that we only have one or two real “parrots” on this forum. Most guys are a lot more open minded and willing to learn all the time and take advice. That’s a great part of what makes this forum great! Sharing knowledge!

[bobspix]

Dont ice it, apply heat instead

I have heard people icing injection sites. I also thought why not warm it since it will help increase blood flow in the area and soften the tissue too. Thanks for your suggestion.

[bobspix]

OP - if your Winstrol is water based, and not oil base.. you can swallow it like an oral. you may end up wanting to do that instead of injecting daily. depends on how you manage the PIP on your first cycle. personally I'd of suggested going with Winstrol tabs

I have tabs too they are from a brand called meditech. And I think it might be underdosed. I also have injectable version from L.A pharma (I can change brands no problem) it's a thick, white liquid, requires shaking before anything is taken out.

[ShootingAcez]

I don’t think it’s a good idea to add the ai from day one. Think about it it will take a while for test levels to rise anyways. Plus doesn’t winstrol have some sort of Anti estrogen effect? I am a firm believer in not running AIs unless absolutely necessary. 500mg Test per week isn’t all that much especially not until he knows how he will feel. All the research I’ve read about just how terrible AIs are for you in general(lipids, brain chemistry, etc) plus the anabolic effect of estrogen and my personal experience with NO AIs lead me to strongly believe that AIs are rarely necessary

I personally haven't had any real experience without an AI. In fact, I just started my current cycle without one. I'm only running Nolva with everything. However, I figure that if he reacts badly to estrogen related sides, other than gyno, a low dose AI would be alright. Preferably Aromasin, being a suicide inhibitor. As for the Winstrol, I don't know about the anti estrogen effects, but I do know it's good for blocking cortisol. Anti Estrogen effects makes me think of Masteron or EQ, no? Something for me to research!

[Family_guy]

I personally haven't had any real experience without an AI. In fact, I just started my current cycle without one. I'm only running Nolva with everything. However, I figure that if he reacts badly to estrogen related sides, other than gyno, a low dose AI would be alright. Preferably Aromasin, being a suicide inhibitor. As for the Winstrol, I don't know about the anti estrogen effects, but I do know it's good for blocking cortisol. Anti Estrogen effects makes me think of Masteron or EQ, no? Something for me to research!

Masteron yes it blocks estrogen at the receptor I think. EQ is enzymatic in its anti estrogen effects. I think winnny has some effect too but I can’t remeber how. Come on more knlowlegable guys chime in!