Cutting with Dbol

[Slacker78]

Hello guys, i'm going in a mild cut with a moderate dosage of anabolics. I'm doing a similar-cruising dosages using Sustanon 250mg/Week, Deca 300mg/Week and Dbol 20mg/ED as pre-pump before training session. I'm using just Nolva with 10mg/ED to contains water retention, no AI, no T3, no Clen. I've not Var for the moment, so i'm switching to Dbol even though is not suitable for cutting but i'm trying to exploit it to keeping anabolic estrogens power.

Of course i'm in a deficit of ~600 Kcal daily with high proteins amount ( 2,5gr/kg ) fats on 1,5gr/Kg and carbs on 1,8gr/Kg. It seems all is going good except i see a bit of water underskin still. I suppose estrogens will keeping anabolic power and preserving muscle loss but at the same time they are keeping a bit of water. I'm thinking to add a moderate dose of an AI, or removing Dbol.

What do you suggest me ? Any idea ?

[redz]

In my avatar I was on75mg dbol, 900 deca and 250 Test e not your typical cutting cycle yet there I am leanest I’ve ever been.

[Slacker78]

In my avatar I was on75mg dbol, 900 deca and 250 Test e not your typical cutting cycle yet there I am leanest I’ve ever been.

Is that what i'm saying. The great work is on diet but i think estrogens and their anabolic support, play a role to preserve muscle mass. Did you take Nolva or AI ?

[Windex]

You can cut with Dbol, at the end of the day diet and training are going to drive goals. The only "disadvantage" is there will be a bit more work on your end for tracking.

[redz]

No ai and no serm at all it was a great cycle. I only need ai with higher test I just keep it on hand now in case. About to start 600mg deca, 550mg Tren E, 250mg Test e with 60mg oral winstrol should be amazing.

[JackMan017]

No ai and no serm at all it was a great cycle. I only need ai with higher test I just keep it on hand now in case. About to start 600mg deca, 550mg Tren E, 250mg Test e with 60mg oral winstrol should be amazing.

Do you typically need AI on 500mg test? If so, how much? I understand everyone's a little different, I was just curious.

[redz]

In the past I was overly cautious and probably didn’t need it. But I used to run up to .5mg twice per week I wouldn’t ever run that much again.

[redz]

After this next 10 week phase I’ll be changing over to 1g Test e per week so I’ll truly see how it goes with no ai to start.

[Slacker78]

After this next 10 week phase I’ll be changing over to 1g Test e per week so I’ll truly see how it goes with no ai to start.

It's pretty evident that you're not high estrogens rate conversion and/or not sensitive to gyno. Your results tell much about the role of estrogens anabolic power to preserve muscle mass in a cutting phase.

[Windex]

It's pretty evident that you're not high estrogens rate conversion and/or not sensitive to gyno. Your results tell much about the role of estrogens anabolic power to preserve muscle mass in a cutting phase.

Past 180ish mg of Testosterone my body does not cooperate so rather than take an AI I just never go beyond TRT and let other compounds do the heavy lifting.

Just a matter of finding your sweet spot and going from there.

DIM is also a good option and underutilized in my opinion

[HoldMyBeer]

Past 180ish mg of Testosterone my body does not cooperate so rather than take an AI I just never go beyond TRT and let other compounds do the heavy lifting.

Just a matter of finding your sweet spot and going from there.

DIM is also a good option and underutilized in my opinion

What you do you mean by, "not cooperate?"

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

[Windex]

What you do you mean by, "not cooperate?"

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

I don't feel good on high Test and end up needing an AI. I'd rather keep Test low and run high dose of another compound like Tren for example.

[GearHeaded]

you can offset some of the estrogenic water retention by running a strong androgen with the Dbol instead of running an AI.. this will allow you to still get the benefits of the elevated estrogen. you could add in Masteron or low dose of Halo (if your liver is healthy) on top of the Nolva

[GearHeaded]

you can offset some of the estrogenic water retention by running a strong androgen with the Dbol instead of running an AI.. this will allow you to still get the benefits of the elevated estrogen. you could add in Masteron or low dose of Halo (if your liver is healthy) on top of the Nolva

note : Masteron on paper does not appear to be a very strong androgen (especially compared to Halo or Tren), but in practical application its very much a strong androgen in my opinion.

another one is Stenbolone. its androgen rating is only twice that as test, but personally the couple of times I've ran it its very much a strong androgen. I like to think of it as androgenic primo

[Slacker78]

you can offset some of the estrogenic water retention by running a strong androgen with the Dbol instead of running an AI.. this will allow you to still get the benefits of the elevated estrogen. you could add in Masteron or low dose of Halo (if your liver is healthy) on top of the Nolva

Ok GH, thank you. I will monitor the course switching the compounds to see what work better for me. Even if someones tell Nolva does not operate on water retention in strict sense but more just on gyno preventing effects. I have not experimented this yet at all.

[HoldMyBeer]

I don't feel good on high Test and end up needing an AI. I'd rather keep Test low and run high dose of another compound like Tren for example.

Okay, just curious. Trying to dial in my test dose myself

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

[GearHeaded]

Ok GH, thank you. I will monitor the course switching the compounds to see what work better for me. Even if someones tell Nolva does not operate on water retention in strict sense but more just on gyno preventing effects. I have not experimented this yet at all.

I've always relied on high amounts of androgens for con prep clients (and water manipulation).. but I do know of coaches that recommend Nolva to help blunt estrogenic water retention, fat accumulation, and not just gyno prevention . I think that is very person dependent though.
so I'd say its worth it for you to give it a try and stay on the Nolva and see how it works for you

[Slacker78]

I've always relied on high amounts of androgens for con prep clients (and water manipulation).. but I do know of coaches that recommend Nolva to help blunt estrogenic water retention, fat accumulation, and not just gyno prevention . I think that is very person dependent though.
so I'd say its worth it for you to give it a try and stay on the Nolva and see how it works for you

Yes i will do. I'm doing 10mg/ED of Nolva for the moment. My body is prone to getting fat and water in the lower abdomen area and around the nipples, at the base of the pectoral; someone call this lypomastia and not gyno. Actually it seems gyno but it's very soft and it seems to be fat and water around ( you can see it a bit in my avatar ).

[lundgren]

I think the same, im very sensitive to oestrogen and with only 1ml / week of Sustanon, the level up a lot.

I try with only 10mg of Nolvadex, and he's working very well.
I'm not sure if he's work if the cycle are like Test Enanthate/ sustanon with Anadrol for exemple, but with test only or test + Dbol that's worked perfectly for me.


@Slacker78 from my experience, i used in the past Dbol (HG) 5mg , and up slowly to 10 and 15 mg, i try to take before 1h of training and the other part after, the water retention are not excessive like Anadrol, so if you eat clean i think it's great for quality gain, but the little excessive water retention left after the cycle.

About the feeling, Dbol made me feel like angel, but from 15mg, i feel angry (i tried with 20-40 and 50mg and it's impressive, but the liver cry a lot) the acnee on arms / back / pec are systematic, with only 5mg i have some boutons and when i up the dose i have more acnee / boutons.

The feeling when you train are awesome, i dont have pain with like Stanozolol on bone / joint, the skin look great (except about acne on certain parts of the body)

I never used Anavar, i think you need low bodyfat to enjoy at the max this compound, like Masteron.

Stanozolol give only lean mass but from my personnal experience, he's hurt a lot the join, i have lot muscle cramp, the cardio are not easy with Stanozolol because the calves congested so much that I have to stop (the feeling as if the calf went explose lol) I think it needs a lot of nitrogen / azote, which causes big muscle pain. And i dont talk about the tendinitis ...

So Dbol are great for lean mass, but take care a lot about dosage, try to get genuine Dbol and up slowly, if your happy with 10-15mg dont up your dosage, take lot Milk Thistle ( i use Milk Thistle with 80% Silymarine and i add Liv52 with it, i dont have TUDCA in my country ) try to know your redblood cells too,with liver / cholesterol etc. ..

[emoji106]

[Slacker78]

I think the same, im very sensitive to oestrogen and with only 1ml / week of Sustanon, the level up a lot.

I try with only 10mg of Nolvadex, and he's working very well.
I'm not sure if he's work if the cycle are like Test Enanthate/ sustanon with Anadrol for exemple, but with test only or test + Dbol that's worked perfectly for me.


@Slacker78 from my experience, i used in the past Dbol (HG) 5mg , and up slowly to 10 and 15 mg, i try to take before 1h of training and the other part after, the water retention are not excessive like Anadrol, so if you eat clean i think it's great for quality gain, but the little excessive water retention left after the cycle.

About the feeling, Dbol made me feel like angel, but from 15mg, i feel angry (i tried with 20-40 and 50mg and it's impressive, but the liver cry a lot) the acnee on arms / back / pec are systematic, with only 5mg i have some boutons and when i up the dose i have more acnee / boutons.

The feeling when you train are awesome, i dont have pain with like Stanozolol on bone / joint, the skin look great (except about acne on certain parts of the body)

I never used Anavar, i think you need low bodyfat to enjoy at the max this compound, like Masteron.

Stanozolol give only lean mass but from my personnal experience, he's hurt a lot the join, i have lot muscle cramp, the cardio are not easy with Stanozolol because the calves congested so much that I have to stop (the feeling as if the calf went explose lol) I think it needs a lot of nitrogen / azote, which causes big muscle pain. And i dont talk about the tendinitis ...

So Dbol are great for lean mass, but take care a lot about dosage, try to get genuine Dbol and up slowly, if your happy with 10-15mg dont up your dosage, take lot Milk Thistle ( i use Milk Thistle with 80% Silymarine and i add Liv52 with it, i dont have TUDCA in my country ) try to know your redblood cells too,with liver / cholesterol etc. ..

[emoji106]

Yes Lundgren. I take TUDCA and NAC 2400mg every day and don't go over 15mg/ED of Dbol and use it before training only. I constantly monitor RBC, liver and cholesterol periodically and they often were in a good range expect liver enzymes which are a bit higher than normal but not so much ( especially AST but it's not just liver specific like ALT which is liver specific and is often in range ). My diet is often perfect. I'm not usual to do high anabolic dosages, before my target is not so high, but the minimal to getting my desidered look.

[lundgren]

I have listening good things about TUDCA and N-Acetyl-Cysteine, what is the dose minimale when you use AAS to have the effect of protector ?

I dont have where i live, i try to see if some website sell to Europe, but im not sure if it's better vs Milk Thistle ? Or maybe stacked with TUDCA ?

For the summer, i like to use low dose of Primo (i know lot people use high dose) but with 2 amps /week, and the summer diet, for me this products work well for the anti-catabolic side, not for gain lot weight. He's safe, dont hurt the test level (with my dose im sure, but for high dosage i dont know)

Add some IGF-1 and you have for me a nice cycle to enjoy the summer [emoji3526]

Good luck with your cycle [emoji106]

[Slacker78]

I have listening good things about TUDCA and N-Acetyl-Cysteine, what is the dose minimale when you use AAS to have the effect of protector ?

I dont have where i live, i try to see if some website sell to Europe, but im not sure if it's better vs Milk Thistle ? Or maybe stacked with TUDCA ?

For the summer, i like to use low dose of Primo (i know lot people use high dose) but with 2 amps /week, and the summer diet, for me this products work well for the anti-catabolic side, not for gain lot weight. He's safe, dont hurt the test level (with my dose im sure, but for high dosage i dont know)

Add some IGF-1 and you have for me a nice cycle to enjoy the summer [emoji3526]

Good luck with your cycle [emoji106]

I use NAC at 1800-2400mg/ED at max for heavy cycles, stacked with C-17; in general this is the max dosage suggested with NAC to get a good ratio of benefits/sides. Yes, you can stack NAC with TUDCA at 450-500mg/ED; sometimes i added Silymarine also for max protection, even if NAC is better above all because it's a glutathione precursor. I use NAC year around even of out cycles and in TRT/Cruising at normal dosage of 600mg/ED given all its benefits.

Yes, primo is always a good choice to getting a good cut/look and preserving muscle mass. IGF-1 would be a tank in this sense but it would enough for me my targets

[Slacker78]

Update:

My cutting is going on and i've added test prop 200mg/Week and T3 32mcg/ED to my stack; caloric deficit is the same, no AI, but 10mg/ED of Nolva even though blocked potential Gyno arise but i still see too much water around my abdominal, hips and around my muscles, and my look is a bit flat... but with too much water; my nipples are slighty protruding but no lumps, no pain and no evident Gyno signs; i suppose Nolva is not doing is job as expected; i will add a small dose of Adex 0.25/E2D and testing the results.

I suppose i should do a carb load also in order to pull water inside muscle cells, because it's possible my cortisol level increased and causing too much water retention, due to severe caloric deficit and T3 indirect effect.

I will update you asap. For the moment, 10mg/ED of Nolva didn't do its job, relatively to my stack, probably due to the fact my estrogens level increased too much and the 10mg/ED wasn't enough.