Zero sperm

[yeahbuddy289]

Had a fertility test done yesterday. They found no sperm at all. I have been on trt and hcg. I verified my hcg was good with a pregnancy test... was kind of hoping it wasn’t good because I feel like if that isn’t helping I’m out of luck. I have used Clomid in the past for hormone replacement therapy and it work well... but after blasting and cruising for a couple years I seem to no longer respond to it.

I know there are other possibilities such as the sperm can’t get out of my testicles but I have a bad feeling that because I did not respond to Clomid the last time I used it that I have essentially killed my testicles.

They are going to do another test in 2-3 weeks before treating me but honestly I’m expecting I’ll get the same results... I’d have to imagine these tests are pretty accurate and I didn’t just shoot a random blank sample.

I am stopping testosterone injections as of right now which is going to be hell for me as if I don’t already feel bad enough.

Really what can I do? Take high doses of hcg or Clomid?? I could understand that if my count was just low... but it’s nonexistent... which leads me to believe hcg isn’t working for me at all... so what would a higher dose do? I’m pretty lost right now and a bit concerned.

[yeahbuddy289]

500ius a week. If I’ve fried my nuts I don’t think anything would work.

[Youthful55guy]

Had a fertility test done yesterday. They found no sperm at all. I have been on trt and hcg. I verified my hcg was good with a pregnancy test... was kind of hoping it wasn’t good because I feel like if that isn’t helping I’m out of luck. I have used Clomid in the past for hormone replacement therapy and it work well... but after blasting and cruising for a couple years I seem to no longer respond to it.

I know there are other possibilities such as the sperm can’t get out of my testicles but I have a bad feeling that because I did not respond to Clomid the last time I used it that I have essentially killed my testicles.

They are going to do another test in 2-3 weeks before treating me but honestly I’m expecting I’ll get the same results... I’d have to imagine these tests are pretty accurate and I didn’t just shoot a random blank sample.

I am stopping testosterone injections as of right now which is going to be hell for me as if I don’t already feel bad enough.

Really what can I do? Take high doses of hcg or Clomid?? I could understand that if my count was just low... but it’s nonexistent... which leads me to believe hcg isn’t working for me at all... so what would a higher dose do? I’m pretty lost right now and a bit concerned.

HCG primarily has LH activity with only some FSH activity. You need both hormones simultaneously for fertility. Yes, withdrawal from all exogenous steroids (including T) is your best option, but what you do today will not show up in your ejaculate for at least 3 months. It just takes that long to produce and mature sperm cells.

We've discussed HMG in another post and yes, it is a great option if you have the money and dedication to follow the established protocols. There is a high rate of success with guys that have secondary hypogonadism. I doubt you are primary. To my knowledge (which admittedly is limited) there is no evidence that exogenous steroids affect long-term testicular function.

I think your best option is: 1) Bite the bullet and stop the steroids. 2) Ramp up HCG up to 3000 IU twice per week (1500 - 3000 IU twice per week are reported in fertility studies), and 3) Resume Clomid treatment.

If after 6 months you are not seeing sufficient sperm cells in the ejaculate, introduce HMG at around 75-150 IU 2-3 times per week.

here's an excerpt from a 2014 publication on the subject. They reiterate that it takes time. You can download the article for free from PubMed with this link:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26816749.

Initially, hCG is administrated alone. After several months of treatment, if no sperm is detected but adequate serum T levels are achieved, then treatment with FSH is introduced (13). Gonadotropins are self-administered subcutaneous injections with dosages ranging between 75-150 IU of FSH or human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG) two to three times weekly plus 1,500-2,500 IU of hCG twice weekly. The duration of treatment may vary from 6-24 months or more and typically continues until sperm appears in the ejaculate and/or when pregnancy is achieved. Most studies have shown that gonadotropins induce spermatogenesis in approximately 80% of treated men (14), with some demonstrating the use of hCG combined with hFSH, urine-hFSH, or hMG-inducing spermatogenesis in up to 94% of men (15). The time it takes for sperm to appear in the ejaculate varies, most study reporting an average time of seven months and average time of 28 months to achieve pregnancy (16). A multicenter, safety study demonstrated that the combination of hCG and rhFSH induces spermatogenesis in men with HH who failed to respond to treatment with hCG alone (17). The pregnancy rate also varies between studies, 38% to 51% of couple who seeks treatment obtain pregnancy (9,17). The gonadotropins also increased T levels and testicular volume with relatively few side-effects (13). Several factors correlate with the response to treatment. Cryptorchidism, small testicles, elevated BMI, and extreme gonadotropin insufficiency are generally considered a negative prognostic indicator for treatment with gonadotropins (13,18,19). Gonadotropins are generally well tolerated, and proper dose adjustments to optimize T levels will minimize side effects such as gynecomastia, acne, influenza-like symptoms, and weight gain.

[yeahbuddy289]

Would you recommend novladex along side Clomid, like a PCT protocol? I am stopping test, and even though my hcg was real, I’m biting the bullet and getting it from the pharmacy ($300!!!) I also plan on running Clomid at 100mg/day as 50mg/day taken over the course of three months did nothing for me. I also ordered some supplements - Ashwagandha, zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D, D aspartic acid, and I’ll start doing B12 injections again.

[Youthful55guy]

Would you recommend novladex along side Clomid, like a PCT protocol? I am stopping test, and even though my hcg was real, I’m biting the bullet and getting it from the pharmacy ($300!!!) I also plan on running Clomid at 100mg/day as 50mg/day taken over the course of three months did nothing for me. I also ordered some supplements - Ashwagandha, zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D, D aspartic acid, and I’ll start doing B12 injections again.

Novladex is an estrogen receptor modulator (blocker), but so is Clomid. Clonid tends to be more specific to the receptors in the brain, which is why if helps to restore LH/FSH secretion. I don't know much about novladex. I'd research it a bit more. It did not show up in fertility protocols the review article I posted previously but anastrozole (an AI did). If your labs show you are high in E2, you might want to consider bringing it down with an AI, but I'd monitor it closely with labs because low E2 sucks as badly as high E2.


According to the article I posted 50mg per day is a standard dose for Clomid. You might start experiencing side-effects at 100, but if it's tolerated, go for it.

[yeahbuddy289]

Man I’m just so nervous that im screwed. Last time I used Clomid my testosterone levels did not even make it anywhere near the low range. And according to the fertility test, hcg isn’t working either. If my count was low I could see maybe how an increase in hcg would help...
But the fact it’s not doing anything is a bit more than concerning.

I’m going to try everything I can obviously but I guess I can only hope there is some kind of obstruction or something preventing the sperm from leaving the testicles and hopefully can be corrected with surgery.

[Youthful55guy]

Man I’m just so nervous that im screwed. Last time I used Clomid my testosterone levels did not even make it anywhere near the low range. And according to the fertility test, hcg isn’t working either. If my count was low I could see maybe how an increase in hcg would help...
But the fact it’s not doing anything is a bit more than concerning.

I’m going to try everything I can obviously but I guess I can only hope there is some kind of obstruction or something preventing the sperm from leaving the testicles and hopefully can be corrected with surgery.

It will take time and a lot of HCG, clomid and/or HMG. An excerpt from the above paper:

The time it takes for sperm to appear in the ejaculate varies, most study reporting an average time of seven months and average time of 28 months to achieve pregnancy (16).

Giving up the steroids is going to be tough, but will increase the likelihood of success. Those exogenous steroids feedback negatively on the secretion of LH/FSH. Diminished LH secretion can be compensated to certain degree with HCG because it has a relatively long half life. But diminished FSH is more difficult to overcome. HMG is basically a purified combination of LH and FSH and they have relatively short half lives. This is where removing the negative feedback signal (exogenous steroids) and augmentation of endogenous LH & FSH with clomid will help.

[yeahbuddy289]

I’m glad I discovered this now rather than later. We planned on beginning to try after we got married, which will be end of next year. Hopefully I’ll be able to get this straightened out within the next year and a half so I’m ready to go.

What do you think the chances are the test was wrong and the next sample I give in 2-3 weeks is good? My guess is there’s pretty much no chance of that happening.

[Youthful55guy]

I’m glad I discovered this now rather than later. We planned on beginning to try after we got married, which will be end of next year. Hopefully I’ll be able to get this straightened out within the next year and a half so I’m ready to go.

What do you think the chances are the test was wrong and the next sample I give in 2-3 weeks is good? My guess is there’s pretty much no chance of that happening.

It's unlikely that a sperm cell test with a count of zero is wrong. Those little buggers should be in the millions and they are relatively large and easy to count.

Right choice to start now since the research shows that it takes time I do think the prognosis is good for you as I'm more inclined to think that your problem is due to HPTA shout down rather than testicular damage, which makes it much easier to fix.

Also giving up the steroids now is also a good idea. I know, it's going to be hard. I couldn't imagine coming off TRT. I'm thinking that the high doses of HCG combined with Clomid will make it easier by (hopefully) keeping your T within range. You need normal levels of testicular produced T for maturation of sperm cells anyway (exogenous T won't do it). Sperm cells require much higher levels of T than is present in the blood and this is occurs naturally because there is locally higher levels of Intra-testicular Testosterone (ITT). ITT is used experimentally as a marker of fertility (no, you don't want to know how they measure it in volunteers).

Though I'm long out of the baby making business, you do have me interested in the topic so I'll poke around some more in the medical literature. If I find anything interesting I'll post.

[yeahbuddy289]

Thanks for all your input man. I know you mentioned that hopefully the hcg and Clomid would put my testosterone in range but i know that Clomid doesn’t anymore... which worries me that if it can’t bring up my testosterone production, it won’t bring up my sperm count. And I am certainly not looking forward to giving up trt... the last time I was off it (when I last tried Clomid) I have never felt worse... but non the less I won’t be going back on testosterone until we hopefully conceive. Or if I do by some miracle get my sperm count back to normal I may freeze some.

[EDCG19]

Yea I think im screwed to on fertility but no way of knowing for sure. I'm not planning on having kids anyway, especially with the way things just ended with this girl i was seeing and i think i need to stay away from women for a while going forward and focus on my own life/career rather than get involved with someone again

[redz]

I have my sperm frozen which may come in handy one day. Hope I don’t need to use the frozen ones but still a great backup. FYI I didn’t freeze my own sperm it’s at a fertility clinic lol.

[yeahbuddy289]

Always wanted to do that redz lol but the cost was quite a bit... and I wasnt anywhere near being ready to have kids back then, and who knows I may have had this problem even before aas use. We want to have a couple kids so if by some miracle I can get things turned around I will probably freeze some so that I can go back on testosterone and not have to worry about this ever again.

[Littlearnie]

I have my sperm frozen which may come in handy one day. Hope I don’t need to use the frozen ones but still a great backup. FYI I didn’t freeze my own sperm it’s at a fertility clinic lol.

Jheeze redz is rich...

[yeahbuddy289]

Well just spent $327 on hcg from the pharmacy. It’s a 10,000ui vial and I reconstituted with 4mls of bac water. I am doing 500ius every three days while taking 100mg of Clomid a day and a bunch of vitamins/herbs that are suppose to help sperm production. My body should have everything it needs now so I guess we’ll wait and see.

[Youthful55guy]

Well just spent $327 on hcg from the pharmacy. It’s a 10,000ui vial and I reconstituted with 4mls of bac water. I am doing 500ius every three days while taking 100mg of Clomid a day and a bunch of vitamins/herbs that are suppose to help sperm production. My body should have everything it needs now so I guess we’ll wait and see.

That's pricy for HCG. I'd shop around. My cost just under $130 for 10,000 IU of Pregnyl branded HCG. I get it at a compound pharmacy associated with our local hospital.

[redz]

In Ontario Canada you can have it done for free but it’s complicated I don’t know how long they’ll keep it but I’d guess indefinitely when and I f I need to use it they’ll be able to make me pay anything.

[Youthful55guy]

Poking around and found another more recent review article on male infertility treatment. This one had a section on infertility post-TRT. here's an excerpt from that section. Not much in the way of new information. They reiterate that it takes time to recover. One interesting tidbit is that 21% of the men never recovered, but they attribute that to the fact they were probably infertile to begin with (underlying spermatogenic failure), which is probably related to their beginning TRT in the first place. I think what this is saying, is that barring any prior infertility issues, TRT does not cause long-term damage to the testicles or HPTA.

TRT and spermatogenesis
In a large multivariate analysis review of 30 studies, Liu et al. established the notion that hormonal male contraceptive regimens are reversible within a predictable time course. Specifically, it was discovered that median times for sperm to recover to thresholds of 20, 10 and 3 million per CC were 3.4, 3.0 and 2.5 months, respectively. Perhaps the most important aspect of the study was the reported probability of 100% recovery to 20 million sperm per CC at 24 months (74). In another study exploring recovery of spermatogenesis after exogenous T use, Kolettis et al. started 22 men presenting with a history of infertility and exogenous T usage on medical recovery therapy utilizing CC or HCG and/or FSH based on the clinical judgment of the providers. Moreover, an additional 16 men were followed up after T cessation only. Patients’ age was 34 years on average with a median duration of T use of 24 months. Ultimately, 15 of 22 men given medical treatment and 16 of 17 men given no treatment other than T cessation had sperm return to the semen. Furthermore, final sperm concentration did not differ between groups. Interestingly, 21% of men in this study did not recover spermatogenesis after cessation or rescue treatment likely due to underlying spermatogenic failure rather than a permanent deleterious effect induced by exogenous T use (71). Wenker et al. reported results of therapy with HCG in 49 men with a history of exogenous testosterone and subsequent severe aberrations in sperm production. These individuals were placed on combination therapy, which included 3,000 units of subcutaneous HCG administered every other day supplemented with CC, tamoxifen, anastrozole or recombinant FSH. After therapy, follow-up semen analyses identified return of spermatogenesis and improved counts for azoospermic men and for men with severe oligospermia, respectively. On average, spermatogenesis was identified after 4.6 months of therapy with a mean first density of 22.6 million/mL (75). Kohn et al. recently published that increasing age and duration of exogenous testosterone use significantly reduced the likelihood of recovery of sperm in the ejaculate after rescue therapy with HCG and SERMs based on a criterion of a TMC of 5 million sperm, at 6 and 12 months (76). It is clear that patients presenting with infertility and concurrent T use should be counseled to immediately cease all use of T. Moreover, a thorough discussion regarding the likelihood of recovery and the risks and benefits of medical rescue therapy should be offered.

[yeahbuddy289]

Interesting article... one of my biggest regrets is not having bloodwork done prior to ever using aas. I have a feeling my testosterone has always been low. And who knows... maybe I have been shooting blanks my whole life and trt/cycling aas is not to blame for this.

[yeahbuddy289]

I was just thinking... should I add some proviron to help keep SHBG low? Mine has historically always been on the high side.

[GearHeaded]

I was just thinking... should I add some proviron to help keep SHBG low? Mine has historically always been on the high side.

using proviron to lower SHBG generally results in an elevation of DHT .. as SHBG has its strongest binding affinity to DHT. so if freeing up more DHT is what your after then yes proviron will work (you'll get some elevation of free test as well)

[Youthful55guy]

I was just thinking... should I add some proviron to help keep SHBG low? Mine has historically always been on the high side.

Personally, I wouldn't mess with any steroid if fertility is your goal. All anabolic steroids will suppress endogenous gonadotropin production. Proviron (Mesterolone) is one of the least suppressive, but it will have some suppression.

[yeahbuddy289]

From what I’ve read it has been used specifically for increasing fertility. But I will keep things simple and just stick with Clomid and hcg and wait for bloodwork. Any health issues I could possibly have from running 100mg of Clomid a day long term?

Also, I found some of my lab results from last summer when I was on Clomid for about 4 months. But only found my LH, FSH, and estradiol.
LH 4.2mIU/ml (1.2-10.6)
FSH 1.5mIU/ml (0.7-10.8)
Estradiol 58pg/ml (0-52)

This was on 50mg of Clomid a day for about 4 months. I don’t have numbers but I do remember free and total test were not even close to being in range.

[yeahbuddy289]

using proviron to lower SHBG generally results in an elevation of DHT .. as SHBG has its strongest binding affinity to DHT. so if freeing up more DHT is what your after then yes proviron will work (you'll get some elevation of free test as well)

Hey bro thanks for stopping in... my main goal is to start making sperm again. I know sperm production and testosterone go hand in hand though which is why I thought maybe proviron would help. But again, fertility is the main goal here and I certainly don’t want jeopardize that.

From my understanding proviron worked to lower SHBG, thus giving you more available testosterone for use. It does not directly raise testosterone in anyway, it just frees up what you already have, wether that number be low or high. I thought it might help alleviate some of the symptoms of having low testosterone by allowing my body to make the most of what little I am making. I’m not sure if this is even close to accurate but that is the conclusion I came to after doing a little research.

[Youthful55guy]

I know sperm production and testosterone go hand in hand though which is why I thought maybe proviron would help.
True, but keep in mind that is referring to Intratesticular T, not peripheral T. Sperm cells need a much higher level of T for maturation than is found in the peripheral blood (which is what the labs measure). The body accomplishes this by having the sperm-producing Sertoli cells located in close proximity to the T-producing Leydig Cells. This bathes the Sertoli cells in very high concentrations of T compared to other parts of the body.

From my understanding proviron worked to lower SHBG, thus giving you more available testosterone for use.
Yes it will and you are correct that it has been used in some fertility research, but I believe all the studies do show some suppression of gonadotropins. To be honest, I'm not well versed in that research, but my gut says not to introduce anything that will work against the high doses of Clomid you are using.

It does not directly raise testosterone in anyway, it just frees up what you already have, whether that number be low or high. I thought it might help alleviate some of the symptoms of having low testosterone by allowing my body to make the most of what little I am making. I’m not sure if this is even close to accurate but that is the conclusion I came to after doing a little research.
That is a very accurate statement. I am one of those individuals with naturally high SHBG and that is why I am on TRT. I've read just about everything there is to read on the subject. There are certain synthetic anabolic steroids that profoundly suppress SHBG production. My choice of steroids (when I was using them as part of my protocol) was oral Winstrol (Stanozolol). It is very inexpensive and my experiments showed that just 5mg/day was extremely effective at bringing my very high (>90nmol/L) SHBG into mid-range. I've also experimented with Anavar (Oxandrolone) but I needed 2X as much and it's 6X more expensive. I've read reports of other having success with Danazol (Danocrine) at around 20mg/day but I've not tried it due to price and my success with stanozolol. I've heard scattered reports of guys using Proviron (Mesterolone) as you propose, but there's little information other than keeping the total daily dose under 150mg to minimize gonadotropin suppression. The trick here is to suppress SHBG to a much greater degree than gonadotropins, so there's an overall increase in Free T. The problem for you is that you need high levels of gonadotropins (FSH and LH) to become fertile again, which is the purpose of taking Clomid, so it's working against you.

See above in blue bold text.

[yeahbuddy289]

Thanks for the response man... I think I will try to keep it simple and only take Clomid and hcg for now. Did you see my post with the LH and FSH numbers from the last time I was on Clomid? They were both in range but on the low end and estradiol was high. Why would FSH and LH be low on Clomid?

[yeahbuddy289]

Yeah I was taking 50mg of Clomid a day for about 4 months and yes it was from the pharmacy. I hope to god I’m not primary but with lh and fsh in range and my free and total were extremely low I don’t know of any other explanation other than I am primary and I can kiss having kids goodbye

[Youthful55guy]

Yeah I was taking 50mg of Clomid a day for about 4 months and yes it was from the pharmacy. I hope to god I’m not primary but with lh and fsh in range and my free and total were extremely low I don’t know of any other explanation other than I am primary and I can kiss having kids goodbye

A couple of thoughts.

First, remember that LH and FSH are highly episodic hormones. That is, they are released in bursts that last an hour or so and then come down to baseline for a couple hours until the next burst. I happened to do my Master's thesis on the episodic release of LH in case you are wondering. So, given that the hormones are episodic, the numbers you see in a lab can very highly from lab to lab depending on whether or not they happened to draw the blood during an episodic release. To make the labs more reliable, it is strongly suggested that you draw the blood first thing in the morning. Make an appointment and be the first in line when they open the door. Do this every time you have LH and/or FSH measured. We secrete about half of our daily gonadotropin supply during sleep, and most of that is during REM sleep, which occurs more frequently over the last 3 hours of the sleep cycle. That is when your morning LH/FSH levels are the highest and most consistent from lab to lab. That's also where they test guys to get the reference ranges.

Second, don't despair, even if you are primary. They are doing wonders with in vitro fertilization. It's a matter of money and good insurance at that point. My suggestion though is to exercise the natural gonadotropin and fertility route with Clomid enhanced gonadotropin secretion. Just keep in mind that its a long road back to fertility and you have to stay off the steroids. Per prior posts, it takes at least 3-4 months for sperm to be detected again and the average is closer to a year before conception actually occurs.

Third. I am a little concerned about such high levels of Clomid over a long period of time. I think you mentioned 100mg per day in a prior post. That's about double what is normally prescribed and I've concerned about estrogenic side-effects. Perhaps I'm just a little sensitized to it. I tried Clomid once and found I could only tolerate 25mg every other day. You went up to this high dose because of your prior labs, but are you placing too much emphasis on one set of labs? Were they taken at the optimal time in the morning? My advice is to look into getting your own labs at the link I gave you previously (https://www.discountedlabs.com/). They are legal in most states and the cost is very reasonable.

[yeahbuddy289]

Those labs were done in the morning I believe. I was planning on taking 100mg until I saw some improvement, or for at least a month or two to help kickstart this. If estrogen is the main issue with that I will look into getting bloodwork done from the site you mentioned. Although I know in New York you can’t get bloodwork without a script from your doctor but still I will definitely look into it.

And yes all my gear is put away until we hopefully have some children. It’s going to be tough watching everything I worked for disappear but I’m hoping it will all be worth it.

[yeahbuddy289]

So my last injection of testosterone was June 1st and my last injection of deca was May 19th. So it’s been four weeks now. I have been on Clomid for about three weeks. My balls hurt pretty bad at times. I have noticed for the past few days I have woken up with semi morning wood and have felt “horny”... but only in the morning. I have a doctor appointment in two weeks and I’ll probably have blood drawn then. Not expecting to see anything good but just want to make sure estrogen and prolactin are in check as they have been high in past labs.

[Youthful55guy]

So my last injection of testosterone was June 1st and my last injection of deca was May 19th. So it’s been four weeks now. I have been on Clomid for about three weeks. My balls hurt pretty bad at times. I have noticed for the past few days I have woken up with semi morning wood and have felt “horny”... but only in the morning. I have a doctor appointment in two weeks and I’ll probably have blood drawn then. Not expecting to see anything good but just want to make sure estrogen and prolactin are in check as they have been high in past labs.

You've gone through about 3 half-lives with the deca and closer to about 2.5 half-lives with the T (assuming T-cyp). So, depending on your dose, you probably still have some floating around in your system. Generally, it takes about 6 half-lives for most of it to be gone.

Testicular discomfort is probably a good thing in this case. Nocturnal erections are definitely a good sign, but keep in mind that you only know you are having them if you happen to wake up near the end of a dream cycle, as they only occur during REM sleep.

I wasn't aware that you had prolactin issues in the past. Was this prior to the use of deca, or just while on use? If prior to use, you may want to explore further what is causing it. An MRI of the pituitary may be in order. High prolactin can cause low T.

More than likely estrogen will follow T levels. Also, an increase in E2 may actually be good if they were low to begin with (due to low T). Guys need E2 for erections and libido. The upper end of when to treat it is very controversial. I personally use 50 pg/mL using the "sensitive" LC/MS/MS lab method.

Oh, I did some research on you getting your own labs done. Sorry, but bad news. NY is one of a handful of states that does not allow for this type of testing. Not sure how/why they do this. Must be a lobby by the local AMA to require personalized counseling with labs. it always comes down to money. Same goes for NJ, MA, Maine, RI, and NH. kind of sucks for you and other guys in those states. The more information you have on hormone levels, the better your outcome during treatment. knowledge is power!

[yeahbuddy289]

Yeah I figured NY wouldn’t allow it. We’re not allowed many freedoms here. My prolactin has tested high (only slightly) and is usually always at the upper end of the range. And this was always with no deca and before I even touched deca. When I do run it my nipples get extremely tender so I’m sure it’s through the roof then.

Oh and yes I have had an MRI done with contrast of my pituitary when I was originally diagnosed with low testosterone and everything looked ok.

[CA_DXB_85]

Hey bro, I hope things are getting better for ya.
I have been following this thread and noticed you've been very pessimistic. I highly recommend that you keep a positive attitude as believe it or not, this will help big time. If u want something, u gotta believe it.
Things have changed in a big way these days and everything is possible. I had a cousin who was told he was as infertile as it gets and he will ever ever see children, which caused his wife to leave him actually (what a bitch, right?) guess what? He's married again and with all the new advancement in medicine he has a healthy baby boy who's about to turn 2 years old I believe!
I didn't even want children at all until some recent talks with my wife which made me change my mind and agreeing to try next year so I basically have to make all the changes u r going through now.
I am aware of all the shit I have to go through and needing to be off the gear but I am not even that worried cuz I know if there is a will, there is always a way.
Stay positive and I'm sure you will end getting what u want!

Best of luck and don't let shit bring u down; u r going to do this

[yeahbuddy289]

Thank you man really appreciate all the kind words. Yeah I have been pretty down over this whole thing but I’m doing everything I can and you are right, I just have to believe things will turn around. I would love to have my sperm count come back and be able to have kids the normal way but if that’s not in the cards then we’ll have to explore other options.

I’m more optimistic now but still very sad for me to have to put gear and my goals on the back burner for a couple years.

I think the toughest part is my fiancé... she’s amazing and so supportive of me through all this and has told me she still wants to get married even if we can’t have kids. But I feel like I will be depressed my entire life knowing I can’t make her a mother. And I would not just be letting her down... but both our families. I know they both want grand kids and all of this weighs on me.

But I’ve been getting better and am trying to be more optimistic! I plan to keep this thread updated as things progress.

[CA_DXB_85]

That's always a good start!
Glad to hear your fiance is supportive and understanding; that's the way it should be!
Bro, no weight on your shoulder and with all due respect, fuck what both families want! You do whatever u want and makes you happy, don't try to live up to anyone's expectations.
I really did not want kids (and deep inside still don't want lol) but I truly love my wife and she's amazing and supportive in every way and she only asked that we try next year so I couldnt let her down. But I told her right away that I won't make it my life's mission and if it doesn't work, so be it! Her response was something like, no pressure, we can always adopt.
The no pressure and no stress is going to make this an easier experience for u. Stress eats the mind and that fucking cortisol eats the muscle u r trying to preserve!
Fuck what everyone thinks as long as u both are going to be happy and have an understanding.
U r already sacrificing things and planning ahead with is all u can do so just don't worry and relax!

As I said earlier, believe me, u r gonna get this done one way or the other

I will keep following this

[yeahbuddy289]

Thanks man really appreciate your support!!

[yeahbuddy289]

It’s been 7 weeks since my last testosterone injection (250mg). I had blood work done yesterday and my total testosterone was 309 (123-814) my free test was 65 (47-244) estrogen was 12 (0-52)

However, my lh and fsh were tanked. They both were <0.2. I would assume that even though my last injection was 7 weeks ago, there is still some left in my system. But I have been taking 100mg of Clomid a day and 500ius of hcg every 3 days. I would think that would have some impact on my lh or fsh?

My guess is my pituitary hasn’t restarted yet, even though I’m taking Clomid, and that’s why my lh and fsh are non existent. And there’s still testosterone circulating from my last injection which is why my testosterone isn’t bottomed out.

[Youthful55guy]

It’s been 7 weeks since my last testosterone injection (250mg). I had blood work done yesterday and my total testosterone was 309 (123-814) my free test was 65 (47-244) estrogen was 12 (0-52)

However, my lh and fsh were tanked. They both were <0.2. I would assume that even though my last injection was 7 weeks ago, there is still some left in my system. But I have been taking 100mg of Clomid a day and 500ius of hcg every 3 days. I would think that would have some impact on my lh or fsh?

My guess is my pituitary hasn’t restarted yet, even though I’m taking Clomid, and that’s why my lh and fsh are non existent. And there’s still testosterone circulating from my last injection which is why my testosterone isn’t bottomed out.

7 weeks is about 6 half lives (~12 days) , so most of the T-cyp should be gone. I seem to remember that in one of the threads that you were also using nandrolone (deca). That has a slightly longer half-life (15 days) and will take longer to clear, but that should be mostly gone too. Given the results of the recent labs, I suspect that you are producing some LH/FSH otherwise you T levels would be much lower. I seem to remember that you were borderline hypogonadal prior to your use of anabolic steroids, so I suspect you are simple coming back to your original gonadotropin levels and that T will remain on the low side. That does not mean you are infertile, it simply means that you are sub-optimal.

My gut feel is that you continue down this road and have another sperm count done at about 3 to 4 months of no steroids. You might also consider bumping up the HCG to around 500 IU every 2 days (1750 per week). That may help with the T levels and speed up spermatogenesis. You are already taking a hefty dose of Clomid, so I'd not bump that up at all. If after 3-4 months your sperm count is still not coming back, you might want to consider adding in HMG to the mix if you can afford it, but I'd time that to begin about 6 months prior to the wedding so that you are peaking in sperm production at the time you are ready to conceive. If she is using a contraceptive, she might want to consider stopping use about 3 months prior to the wedding so that she is optimally fertile too. Needless to say, you might want to consider other means of contraception during this time period.

[yeahbuddy289]

Last year after taking 50mg of Clomid for three months my total T was 88. So the fact that it was 309 after only maybe 5 weeks of Clomid and hcg is amazing. But I worry the deca and test I was taking could still be in my system if my body is just very slow at metabolizing it (deca was stopped 9 weeks prior to bloodwork and test was stopped seven weeks prior to bloodwork) My fsh and lh were next to nothing so the only explanation at this point would be there’s still exogenous testosterone in my system or the hcg is working. But the fact I was infertile while taking hcg before leads me to believe hcg doesn’t work all that well for me.

[yeahbuddy289]

I had blood work done again. It has now been 10 weeks since my last testosterone enanthate and 12 weeks since my last deca injection. My testosterone has dropped since my last blood work which was about 3 weeks ago. My total test is 136 (123-814) free test is 24 (47-244) my percent free is 1.8 (1.6-2.9) estrogen is in range. I did not see LH or FSH on there so I sent a message to my doctor.

I’m not surprised that my numbers came back this low as I feel like crap... my sex drive is all but gone. The only thing that gave me hope is my testicles seem to be bigger than they have been but, maybe that was just wishful thinking. Going to try to push through this and keep doing what I’m doing and give it more time.