Taking HCG but boys are still shriniking, Is it me or the source?

[forrest_and_trees]

It's been ages since I've posted, but I was about to order some more HCG, when I thought I'd better ask here before I do. Been using HCG for years now, but for a long time I stopped when all the online sites stopped taking credit cards. [I didn't trust the check thing] I finally gave in and started up again last year but my results have been mixed. While some things seem to be doing better with the HCG, the main thing hasn't. My boys are now like a couple grapes and they're *ascending* and my sack looks a Tween. Fortunately they don't hurt.

I'd been using 250IUs twice a week, but when things started shriveling, I kept bumping up the dose to see it it'd help and I'm now up to 400IUs twice a week. My TRT is 100mg twice a week. [200mg a week] I get my blood panel done every six months, my T has been about 1200 and E2 numbers are in the double digits. I'm wondering if it's something to do with my body chemistry or is the stuff I'm getting not that good.

In the news, I've been hearing about some of the nasty stuff that gets shipped from over seas when using online pharmacies, and it's got me a little concerned. I know it's a bad word, but I'd *really* appreciate it if I could get some PMs with a reputable source. Or at the very least to confirm the one I'm using is good. Whenever I get a new order it sometimes looks like the packaging is fake, they all have the same batch numbers and stamps etc., like they just copied and reprinted a legit box over and over.

Anyway, I'm about to mix up my last vial and want to get an order in, since it usually takes 6 weeks before I get them. I really appreciate the help. Thanks.

F/T

[Youthful55guy]

It's been ages since I've posted, but I was about to order some more HCG, when I thought I'd better ask here before I do. Been using HCG for years now, but for a long time I stopped when all the online sites stopped taking credit cards. [I didn't trust the check thing] I finally gave in and started up again last year but my results have been mixed. While some things seem to be doing better with the HCG, the main thing hasn't. My boys are now like a couple grapes and they're *ascending* and my sack looks a Tween. Fortunately they don't hurt.

I'd been using 250IUs twice a week, but when things started shriveling, I kept bumping up the dose to see it it'd help and I'm now up to 400IUs twice a week. My TRT is 100mg twice a week. [200mg a week] I get my blood panel done every six months, my T has been about 1200 and E2 numbers are in the double digits. I'm wondering if it's something to do with my body chemistry or is the stuff I'm getting not that good.

In the news, I've been hearing about some of the nasty stuff that gets shipped from over seas when using online pharmacies, and it's got me a little concerned. I know it's a bad word, but I'd *really* appreciate it if I could get some PMs with a reputable source. Or at the very least to confirm the one I'm using is good. Whenever I get a new order it sometimes looks like the packaging is fake, they all have the same batch numbers and stamps etc., like they just copied and reprinted a legit box over and over.

Anyway, I'm about to mix up my last vial and want to get an order in, since it usually takes 6 weeks before I get them. I really appreciate the help. Thanks.

F/T

Don't do that anymore because I now have a script for a sufficient supply to run 1000 IU/week. I now only purchase Merck & Co. branded Pregnyl from a local pharmacy.

However, I had the same question when I was purchasing overseas, so I devised a test to see if it is legit. Fortunately I keep notes in an electronic notebook on pretty much everything about my hormone program. Here's a copy paste of my notes from the experiment. You might just want to skip the preamble and get to the test and results at the end, but I include it for completeness.

Background
• From the various sources of information, it appears that the range of sensitivity for OTC urine HCG tests is 20 to 100 IU/L (mIU/mL), with most in the range of 25-40 IU/L (mIU/mL).
• This equates to 0.025 to 0.040 IU/mL
• I mix up my HCG at 1000 IU/mL
• 0.25 mL should contain 250 IU
• Need to dilute 0.25 mL with 10 L (10,000 mL) to get dilution to the lowest level of the test range & 0.4 mL to get to the higher end of the range.
• The lowest amount I can accurately measure is about 0.05 mL
• If I dilute 0.05 mL HCG solution = 50 IU with 1 L (10,000 mL) water, then the resulting solution should be about 50 IU'L, which is about the middle of the range for sensitivity.

Proposed Test Method
• Purchase a pregnancy urine test kit with 25 mIU/mL accuracy
• Dilute 0.1 mL of my stock mixed HCG solution to 1 L with my own urine (avoids any chance of throwing off the test by using pure water with no electrolytes)
• This should result in a solution with 100 IU/L (mIU/mL) of HCG, which is 4X the sensitivity of the test
○ If the above is positive, use the second test strip to test at 50 IU/L to give added confidence to the HCG potency (~2X sensitivity of the test)
○ If the above is negative, use the second test strip to test at 250 IU/L to determine if there is any appreciable HCG in the mix (~10X sensitivity of the test)

Results
• Actual test I purchased was First Response, which claims a sensitivity of 6.3 IU/L (mIU/mL), which is 7.6X more sensitive than the low end of the range.
• Ran first test at 0.05 mL stock HCG solution (1000 IU/mL) = 50 IU diluted to 1000 mL fresh urine.
○ Came back positive
• Ran the test a second time with 0.1 mL stock Hcg = 100 IU diluted to 1000 mL fresh urine.
○ Also came back positive

[forrest_and_trees]

Thanks for the detailed response. But I'm a little confused, are you saying you tried this on HCG you bought online? Or are you suggesting I try the test myself?

[Ephemeral]

I suggest that u find a doc and have him prescribe it for u. UGL HCG is not even cheaper than pharma (at least not where I live), so there's no reason not to do it really.

Also, 1200 T seems a bit high, it might give u some problems in the long run. HCG raises your T levels a bit (for me 875 IU per week raised T by 300), so that's one way to tell if your HCG is real or not, although not a super accurate one.

[forrest_and_trees]

UGL HCG is not even cheaper than pharma (at least not where I live), so there's no reason not to do it really.

What do you mean by UGL? But you bring up a good point, even if I get a script, I know my insurance won't cover it. How much does it cost over the counter for a 5000iu vial?

[Youthful55guy]

What do you mean by UGL? But you bring up a good point, even if I get a script, I know my insurance won't cover it. How much does it cost over the counter for a 5000iu vial?

I never submit my HCG or T prescription to insurance. I just don't want to go through the hassle. It's not that expensive.

I pay about $130 for 10,000 IU of Merck & Co. branded Pregnyl, which lasts me about 10 weeks at 1000 IU/week. That works out to about $700 per year give or take.

I also pay about $63 for 10 mL of Pfizer branded Depo-Testosterone, which lasts me about 150 days at my prescribed 0.2 mL E3D. That works out to about $155 per year. However, I am currently doing an experiment with higher doses to adjust my Free T level into the upper 75th percentile for a 30 year old guy. I have a problem with high SHBG and normally suppress it with very small doses of Winstrol (5mg/day), but currently I'm not using Winstrol and just bumping up the T to compensate. I purchase the extra from the website I sent you in a PM. It runs about the same price as the scripted stuff when you add in the shipping charges.

[Youthful55guy]

Thanks for the detailed response. But I'm a little confused, are you saying you tried this on HCG you bought online? Or are you suggesting I try the test myself?

Those are notes from when I developed and tried the test myself on HCG that I purchased overseas. If you skip down to the end, you will see that the product did indeed contain HCG. What it does not test is the actual concentration. According to my test, I was able to detect about 50 IU in 1000 mL urine, which is about 0.05 IU/mL. That convinced me it was legit.

[forrest_and_trees]

Just thought I'd share this. Found it on another site, it's a similar but seemingly more simple test One Step HCG Potency Test.

If we're not allowed to link to other sites:

One Step Potency Test for HCG Contents: One (1) pouch containing a strip and desiccant. The desiccant is for storage purposes only, and is not used in the test procedures What Else do you need? 1. A syringe with attached needle to withdraw and dispense the HCG mixture. 2. Timer (watch or clock) Precautions: 1. This kit is for external use only. Do not swallow. 2. Discard after first use. The test strip cannot be used more than once. 3. Do not use test beyond expirationdate. 4. Do not use the kit if the pouch is punctured or not well sealed 5. Keep out of reach of children. Storage: 1. Store 39F to 77F (4C to 25C)in the sealed pouch up to the expiration date 2. Keep away from direct sunlight, moisture and heat. 3. DO NOT FREEZE 4. Preferably open the pouch only shortly before the test. How to do the test:

1. The test strip and the HCG have to be at room temperature 59F to 86F (15C –30C) for testing
2. Remove the test strip from the sealed pouch
3. Withdraw a smallamount of HCG liquid from the glass storage vial into the syringe.Squirt a few drops of the HCG liquid onto the sponge-likematerial that is exposed on the edgesof the test strip. Do this in the area below the “MAX” line on the strip. After 3 seconds,lay the strip flat on a clean, dry, non-absorbent surface. IMPORTANT: Do not applythe HCG above the MAX line,otherwise the test will not perform correctly. 4. Read results in five minutes. Do not read results after more than 5 minutes.

How to read the results Negative (HCG is NOTPotent): Only one color band appears in the control zone. No apparent band in the test zone. This indicates that no HCGhas been detected. Positive (HCG is Potent): Distinct color bands appear in thecontrol zone and the test zone. It indicates that the HCG is fully potent. The color intensity of the test bands may vary as HCG concentrationsvaryslightly. Invalid: No visible band at all,or there is a visible band only in the test region and not in the control region. Repeat with a new test kit.




It doesn't say what constitutes the "solution" but is it really necessary to collect a *lite* of urine? That's quiet a bit. How did you determine the amount of HCG to use? If the intent is to determine whether or not the HCG is good, does it matter the concentration? This test makes it sound like you just apply the HCG and bacteriostatic mixture directly to the test strip.

[Charlie67]

UGL. = Underground Lab

[Beetlegeuse]

I don't find the words "primary" or "secondary" on this page so I'm guessing no one yet has brought up primary versus secondary hypogonadism. Primary means your balls are the problem. Secondary means your brain isn't sending the right signal to make your balls do their job. hCG only works for secondary hypogonadism. It mimics the luteinizing hormone the brain should have been producing but isn't. It doesn't do anything to directly "fix" your balls if they themselves are the problem.

[Youthful55guy]

I don't find the words "primary" or "secondary" on this page so I'm guessing no one yet has brought up primary versus secondary hypogonadism. Primary means your balls are the problem. Secondary means your brain isn't sending the right signal to make your balls do their job. hCG only works for secondary hypogonadism. It mimics the luteinizing hormone the brain should have been producing but isn't. It doesn't do anything to directly "fix" your balls if they themselves are the problem.

True, but when you go on TRT, the supplemental T initiates a negative feedback loop to the hypothalamus (brain) to reduce the secretion of Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH). When GnRH secretion is suppressed due to the supplemental T, it mimics secondary hypogonadism.

You are correct though, that if the OP had primary hypogonadism (meaning nonfunctional testicles) before starting TRT, then all the HCG in the world isn't going to help him.

[forrest_and_trees]

Root cause of my Low T has never been determined. [I also also hypothyroidism and take Armor for that] I've been on TRT for about 10 years now, and while my testies may not be responding to the HCG, there are other positive results. In addition to the atrophy and ascending, I've noticed my morning wood is now more morning chub. Before TRT it was non-existent, then after TRT it returned, now it's going away again. Can this be related? My BP is good, been pre-hypertensive for more than 20 years, now it's down to top end of normal. Liver and kidney functions are all good. I did have high RBC last year, so I began donating blood about every 8 weeks and it's fine again.

[forrest_and_trees]

Maybe this is something I should look into. What was your Clomid regimen? i.e. Tablet strength, dose, frequency and duration? How do you know it's working or not?

[forrest_and_trees]

Thanks for that link, good info.