tren cycle help

[morton30]

First off i want to thank everyone that has helped me throughout the past year or so with these threads i have been making. you dont have to help me but you take the time and i really appreciate it to be able to get advice from the gurus on here such as GearHeaded windex HoldMyBeer and all the rest of you guys is a godsend.

me
weight 181lbs
height 5ft 8in
age 31
bf% around 15% with calipers

workout routine
day 1
bicep curls bar and dumbells 5x5
overhead press 5x5
barbell benchpress/dumbell press 5x5
pullups 5x5

day 2
squats 5x5
situps 5x5
leg raises

i do this throughout the week and rest on the weekend
i eat 200g+ protien a day my diet is pretty clean but could be cleaner
i aim for 3k cals a day anything above this and i seem to pack the fat on


Im one week into a tren cycle my last tren cycle was enathate i had to stop it only 5 weeks in as i could not handle the mental sides and was arguing with the missis 24/7 i also developed slight gyno but a month on nolvadex cleared it up. this time though im using acetate and using 0.5mg caber with each test injection witch is 100mg i have not been taking any arimadex because i have read estrogen is needed to bulk on tren .i knew what was coming so i feel i could handle the sides and now the tren has kicked in and im doing good mentally but now my nipples are itching like crazy and they hurt every now and then when my tshirt hits them i know im getting it again i was banking on the caber would prevent it maybe i should of used caber a few weeks before going on the tren?. anyway i have arimadex here and thinking of taking it but then would it be pointless bulking on tren with low estrogen aswell with noladex i have heard it also limits gains helps prevent the muscle tears or something like that. i have a quite a bit of body fat to loose so should i just take arimadex and nolva and just try and cut on it now or is there a way to stop this and carry on with a optimal bulk?

[wrecks72]

Thanks for all the info which enables a guy to give solid advice. The bad thing here is your chemistry set (your body) is different than any of the names you mentioned or mine for that matter.
So this is my opinion and only that. Bro science if you will.
What I didn't see you had info on was bloodwork stating where your estrogen levels were at the moment. With that said it's a crap shoot to tell you what and how to take whatever so I'm just going to.go off the.info you did share.
Cabergoline is for prolactin issues and does not act as an aromatase inhibitor (AI). When I run tren I use and AI but it's because I know my Testosterone mg I'm taking is pretty high and the oral I'm taking aromatizes even quicker. Nolvadex is a SERM and doesn't block estrogen from flowing in the blood which does help with mass. An AI inhibits estrogen so it does have its faults but it beats the hell out of gyno imo and most others as well. If Nolvadex works for you start it immediately. For me personally it doesn't do anything for me. When I used it my E sensitive test came back at 85. I used arimidex for 5 weeks after that up to 1mg ed still no decline in my Estrogen bloodwork. I had to get Letrozole. It worked but it's a very powerful estrogen killer. I hope this helped although this is just going off of my personal experience and the research I've done over the years and also the knowledge of a couple of the guys you mentioned.
Good luck.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[GearHeaded]

ok so a couple points here (but will keep estrogen as a common theme)

- your last tren cycle where you got mental issues was likely because your estrogen was too low . tren is a very very strong androgen. your brain has both estrogen and androgen receptors. you need a good balance of both estrogen and androgen for mental health.. if you androgen load is very high, yet your estrogen is low, then your brain becomes androgen dominant and that will cause issues.. you need enough estrogen to counter balance this.

- tren does NOT aromatize into estrogen. an AI does one thing, it inhibits aromatization of androgens into estrogen. but again Tren does not aromatize anyways. so an AI does not do shit for Tren. in fact I generally recommend running enough test or dbol with tren just to help get more estrogen into your cycle. an AI is the last thing you want when running Tren.. if your worried about tren gyno, an AI will not do a thing.

- any estrogenic side effects that come from tren are NOT from aromatization or even an increase in estrogen levels. its from the fact that tren is a progestin based compound and will bind to and interact with progestin receptors as actual progesterone.. so what this does is make you ultra sensitive to estrogen via the preogstin mechanism of action . its not about aromatization at all , heck its not even about having elevated estrogen. its just that the progestin effects make you ultra sensitive to estrogen. again, taking an AI doesn't do a thing

- MASTERON . "Mast" means breast. the drug masteron was invented to blunt estrogen and preogstin receptors in breast tissue.. plus its anabolic and androgenic. so its a win win . I would run Mast with any tren cycle you ever do

- keeping blood serum levels of estrogen elevated while on tren will most definitely help you grow and put on size . so again, ditch the AI its pointless .. add masteron and nolva to work at receptor sites

[morton30]

ok so a couple points here (but will keep estrogen as a common theme)

- your last tren cycle where you got mental issues was likely because your estrogen was too low . tren is a very very strong androgen. your brain has both estrogen and androgen receptors. you need a good balance of both estrogen and androgen for mental health.. if you androgen load is very high, yet your estrogen is low, then your brain becomes androgen dominant and that will cause issues.. you need enough estrogen to counter balance this.

- tren does NOT aromatize into estrogen. an AI does one thing, it inhibits aromatization of androgens into estrogen. but again Tren does not aromatize anyways. so an AI does not do shit for Tren. in fact I generally recommend running enough test or dbol with tren just to help get more estrogen into your cycle. an AI is the last thing you want when running Tren.. if your worried about tren gyno, an AI will not do a thing.

- any estrogenic side effects that come from tren are NOT from aromatization or even an increase in estrogen levels. its from the fact that tren is a progestin based compound and will bind to and interact with progestin receptors as actual progesterone.. so what this does is make you ultra sensitive to estrogen via the preogstin mechanism of action . its not about aromatization at all , heck its not even about having elevated estrogen. its just that the progestin effects make you ultra sensitive to estrogen. again, taking an AI doesn't do a thing

- MASTERON . "Mast" means breast. the drug masteron was invented to blunt estrogen and preogstin receptors in breast tissue.. plus its anabolic and androgenic. so its a win win . I would run Mast with any tren cycle you ever do

- keeping blood serum levels of estrogen elevated while on tren will most definitely help you grow and put on size . so again, ditch the AI its pointless .. add masteron and nolva to work at receptor sites

Thanks for the reply i have read before about mastron with tren is the way to go but i have stayed away from dht derivative steroid i have not even ran test above 200mg before my whole family is bald on both sides of the family and dont want to speed it up in anyway i took the plunge with tren and it made me grow more hair than anything. nolvadex worked well last time but last time i was on a cut. i keep reading that nolvadex slows gains down as it protects the muscles from tearing as easily is there any truth to this?

[GearHeaded]

something to keep in mind .. DHT derived steroids are NOT capable of converting to DHT. they, by very structure, are already 5 alpha reduced and therefore cannot be reduced any further in the body to DHT.
so , DHT derived steroids, being unable to convert to DHT in the body , should technically not cause any hair loss issues. and being they are derived from DHT, means they are no longer that from which they are derived (eg., EQ is derived from testosterone, and being its derived from test it can no longer ever be test itself in the body .. the derivative is no longer that from which it is derived). a DHT derived steroid cannot be a "dht"

BUT here is the caveat . DHT derived steroids, though they cannot convert to DHT, they do have a tendency to lower SHBG. and SHBG is a hormone that binds up other hormones, like test, dht, and estrogen. and SHBG has its strongest affinity to DHT. so what happens when you lower SHBG? well you then have more unbound DHT in the blood stream .

^ its via this manner and mechanism that DHT derived steroids display DHT like side effects

[Windex]

You need to have a more optimized and tailored diet program to be able to successfully bulk on Tren.

[morton30]

You need to have a more optimized and tailored diet program to be able to successfully bulk on Tren.

can i give yesterday as an example

meal 1 100g all bran ceral with skimmed milk with one scoop of protien powder in the milk
meal 2 kfc toasted chicken wrap
meal 3 steak and a salad
meal 4 3 chicken wraps consisting of 300g of chcicken

all this added to 3k calories this changes everyday i wouldent have kfc wrap everyday but my fats still would be well below 100g. how would you propose i change my diet up i have heard with tren high protien high carbs low fat is this not the case?

[Windex]

can i give yesterday as an example

meal 1 100g all bran ceral with skimmed milk with one scoop of protien powder in the milk
meal 2 kfc toasted chicken wrap
meal 3 steak and a salad
meal 4 3 chicken wraps consisting of 300g of chcicken

all this added to 3k calories this changes everyday i wouldent have kfc wrap everyday but my fats still would be well below 100g. how would you propose i change my diet up i have heard with tren high protien high carbs low fat is this not the case?

It's not just about macro split, it's also carb tolerance, carb timing, how you react to the compound, micronutrients, Tren refeeeding, appetite control, etc.

Tren can also tank your appetite, and if you don't have a plan to combat that then the scale is going to go down instead of up.

Your meal from yesterday is missing

- Potassium
- Magnesium
- Iodine
- Quality carbs (wraps and cereal are empty carbs)
- Most likely too little sodium
- Not enough real food (KFC chicken is not real chicken, and there's a shake and liquid calories)
- Only have saturated fat and trans fat from KFC. Missing other sources
- No Omegas in your meal plan

Just being brutally honest to help you save your money and time, but you don't have the level of expertise / knowledge to bulk on Tren.

I would use more beginner compounds to bulk and log a journal to get a better understanding of how your body responds to food. You can also spend the time learning more about nutrition and experimenting with carb tolerance. By then you will be much better prepared to be successful.

[DeeCee112]

I'd take Windexs advice here bro, your training has to be better if your running advanced compounds looking for gains 5 sets of Squats for a leg workout ain't gonna cut it.

To me your looking at optimizing the drugs when the fuel and working parts of your lifestyle need the work first before you add the nitrous.

[morton30]

It's not just about macro split, it's also carb tolerance, carb timing, how you react to the compound, micronutrients, Tren refeeeding, appetite control, etc.

Tren can also tank your appetite, and if you don't have a plan to combat that then the scale is going to go down instead of up.

Your meal from yesterday is missing

- Potassium
- Magnesium
- Iodine
- Quality carbs (wraps and cereal are empty carbs)
- Most likely too little sodium
- Not enough real food (KFC chicken is not real chicken, and there's a shake and liquid calories)
- Only have saturated fat and trans fat from KFC. Missing other sources
- No Omegas in your meal plan

Just being brutally honest to help you save your money and time, but you don't have the level of expertise / knowledge to bulk on Tren.

I would use more beginner compounds to bulk and log a journal to get a better understanding of how your body responds to food. You can also spend the time learning more about nutrition and experimenting with carb tolerance. By then you will be much better prepared to be successful.

well i have started now so no going back dont want to waste the money i have spent on these vials ill continue and see how it goes. the scales seem to be going up quite fast im 185 today so if it dont continue to rise ill start cutting or something

[Windex]

well i have started now so no going back dont want to waste the money i have spent on these vials ill continue and see how it goes. the scales seem to be going up quite fast im 185 today so if it dont continue to rise ill start cutting or something

The vials aren't going anywhere - they can be kept for years safely and still get used. It's not fresh vegetables they won't expire in a few days.

What's the point of bulking for a few weeks then getting stuck because of being unprepared only to then do the complete opposite and cut? thats exactly what spinning your tires is.

Continuing your cycle with your current mindset will be wasting your money.

[AR's King Silabolin]

ok so a couple points here (but will keep estrogen as a common theme)

- your last tren cycle where you got mental issues was likely because your estrogen was too low . tren is a very very strong androgen. your brain has both estrogen and androgen receptors. you need a good balance of both estrogen and androgen for mental health.. if you androgen load is very high, yet your estrogen is low, then your brain becomes androgen dominant and that will cause issues.. you need enough estrogen to counter balance this.

- tren does NOT aromatize into estrogen. an AI does one thing, it inhibits aromatization of androgens into estrogen. but again Tren does not aromatize anyways. so an AI does not do shit for Tren. in fact I generally recommend running enough test or dbol with tren just to help get more estrogen into your cycle. an AI is the last thing you want when running Tren.. if your worried about tren gyno, an AI will not do a thing.

- any estrogenic side effects that come from tren are NOT from aromatization or even an increase in estrogen levels. its from the fact that tren is a progestin based compound and will bind to and interact with progestin receptors as actual progesterone.. so what this does is make you ultra sensitive to estrogen via the preogstin mechanism of action . its not about aromatization at all , heck its not even about having elevated estrogen. its just that the progestin effects make you ultra sensitive to estrogen. again, taking an AI doesn't do a thing

- MASTERON . "Mast" means breast. the drug masteron was invented to blunt estrogen and preogstin receptors in breast tissue.. plus its anabolic and androgenic. so its a win win . I would run Mast with any tren cycle you ever do

- keeping blood serum levels of estrogen elevated while on tren will most definitely help you grow and put on size . so again, ditch the AI its pointless .. add masteron and nolva to work at receptor sites

Ive red that tren do convert to estrogen. In a ratio like... If 100 % of your test molechyles could convert, 25% of the tren could convert. Dont remember the source, but it was not from a bro comment.

Sent fra min BLA-L29 via Tapatalk

[Family_guy]

It's not just about macro split, it's also carb tolerance, carb timing, how you react to the compound, micronutrients, Tren refeeeding, appetite control, etc.

Tren can also tank your appetite, and if you don't have a plan to combat that then the scale is going to go down instead of up.

Your meal from yesterday is missing

- Potassium
- Magnesium
- Iodine
- Quality carbs (wraps and cereal are empty carbs)
- Most likely too little sodium
- Not enough real food (KFC chicken is not real chicken, and there's a shake and liquid calories)
- Only have saturated fat and trans fat from KFC. Missing other sources
- No Omegas in your meal plan

Just being brutally honest to help you save your money and time, but you don't have the level of expertise / knowledge to bulk on Tren.

I would use more beginner compounds to bulk and log a journal to get a better understanding of how your body responds to food. You can also spend the time learning more about nutrition and experimenting with carb tolerance. By then you will be much better prepared to be successful.

What do you mean by carb tolerance?

[GearHeaded]

Ive red that tren do convert to estrogen. In a ratio like... If 100 % of your test molechyles could convert, 25% of the tren could convert. Dont remember the source, but it was not from a bro comment.

I think you probably heard it from Dave Palumbo .. who has some medical background but not a science/chemistry background.

Tren is a 19 nor Progestin . so by very nature (its chemical structure) it cannot convert to estrogen (its missing the components need to interact with the aromatase enzyme). I got this information from a cellular biologist thats familiar with AAS chemical structures (he's also a guy that usually always disagrees with Dave .. just a side point).

however, being Tren IS a progestin , it most definitely can be estrogenic in the body (its just via the progestin mechanism and not the aromatization one)

[The Deadlifting Dog]

First off i want to thank everyone that has helped me throughout the past year or so with these threads i have been making. you dont have to help me but you take the time and i really appreciate it to be able to get advice from the gurus on here such as GearHeaded windex HoldMyBeer and all the rest of you guys is a godsend.

me
weight 181lbs
height 5ft 8in
age 31
bf% around 15% with calipers

workout routine
day 1
bicep curls bar and dumbells 5x5
overhead press 5x5
barbell benchpress/dumbell press 5x5
pullups 5x5

day 2
squats 5x5
situps 5x5
leg raises

i do this throughout the week and rest on the weekend
i eat 200g+ protien a day my diet is pretty clean but could be cleaner
i aim for 3k cals a day anything above this and i seem to pack the fat on


Im one week into a tren cycle my last tren cycle was enathate i had to stop it only 5 weeks in as i could not handle the mental sides and was arguing with the missis 24/7 i also developed slight gyno but a month on nolvadex cleared it up. this time though im using acetate and using 0.5mg caber with each test injection witch is 100mg i have not been taking any arimadex because i have read estrogen is needed to bulk on tren .i knew what was coming so i feel i could handle the sides and now the tren has kicked in and im doing good mentally but now my nipples are itching like crazy and they hurt every now and then when my tshirt hits them i know im getting it again i was banking on the caber would prevent it maybe i should of used caber a few weeks before going on the tren?. anyway i have arimadex here and thinking of taking it but then would it be pointless bulking on tren with low estrogen aswell with noladex i have heard it also limits gains helps prevent the muscle tears or something like that. i have a quite a bit of body fat to loose so should i just take arimadex and nolva and just try and cut on it now or is there a way to stop this and carry on with a optimal bulk?

I'm sorry but...

if that is your workout routine then you should be staying far away from steroids.
Learn how to eat and train before messing with your health.

[morton30]

I'm sorry but...

if that is your workout routine then you should be staying far away from steroids.
Learn how to eat and train before messing with your health.

full body workout that works nearly every muscle weight is flying on me since i started tren the workouts are not 5x5 more like 10x10 dunno why i put 5x5 to be honest i lift till the reps are in the strength training range before i stop

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I am happy for you that the "nearly every muscle weight is flying on you" since you started one of the hardest core steroids.
Muscle would be flying on you too if you learned how to train.

Neither one of your workouts is full body.
Your leg day is just 5 sets of squats. No hammies. No deads. Then abs.

You do biceps before all your other upper body exercises.
You don't do any rowing motions.
You don't do triceps.

Your routine screams of someone who doesn't have much experience in the gym.

If i were you I would simply ask for help in that regards before you start harming your body with steroids.

[morton30]

I am happy for you that the "nearly every muscle weight is flying on you" since you started one of the hardest core steroids.
Muscle would be flying on you too if you learned how to train.

Neither one of your workouts is full body.
Your leg day is just 5 sets of squats. No hammies. No deads. Then abs.

You do biceps before all your other upper body exercises.
You don't do any rowing motions.
You don't do triceps.

Your routine screams of someone who doesn't have much experience in the gym.

If i were you I would simply ask for help in that regards before you start harming your body with steroids.

ill work on my routine and add more variation. i am still learning by the sounds of it i think i assumed a few things without researching such as exhausting the biceps before bench press i would of thought it would of isolated the chest more as the biceps would no longer be in play but after a quick google it seems i am wrong also i always thought bench press is enough for triceps as well turns out i am wrong. tonight i will make up a new routine. but please understand i train hard i give it my all and most of the time especially when on the tren i will train untill even after 5-10 min rest i can only do a few reps of a exercise. i know it must be annoying having the experience you have telling somone there not ready and get off the gear till you are ect and then they continue with the cycle. but mate i have high hopes for this cycle and today i will research like a mad man and improve on routine and diet ect

[Windex]

Recognize that people are being honest with you so that you don't fail and waste your time and money.

You are trying to drive a Ferrari, but you don't even have the training wheels off your bicycle yet.

[morton30]

Recognize that people are being honest with you so that you don't fail and waste your time and money.

You are trying to drive a Ferrari, but you don't even have the training wheels off your bicycle yet.

Rather than continuing to argue with people who have been lifting longer than you have been alive on this planet maybe take a few minutes to really understand what's being said to you.

You are trying to drive a Ferrari, but you don't even have the training wheels off your bicycle yet.

Well i drove the same Ferrari before and gained muscle and lost fat.
honestly im not arguing im taking what all of you said onboard and i will improve on those things and hopefully do better than last time . to say i dont even have my training wheels of my bicycle yet i think is a bit harsh i have built a good 40lbs on peds in under a year

[morton30]

I am happy for you that the "nearly every muscle weight is flying on you" since you started one of the hardest core steroids.
Muscle would be flying on you too if you learned how to train.

Neither one of your workouts is full body.
Your leg day is just 5 sets of squats. No hammies. No deads. Then abs.

You do biceps before all your other upper body exercises.
You don't do any rowing motions.
You don't do triceps.

Your routine screams of someone who doesn't have much experience in the gym.

If i were you I would simply ask for help in that regards before you start harming your body with steroids.

i just done this today thinking this every other day any better?

Chest (bench press, incline bench press and dumbbell pullovers - 10 reps, 3-4 sets)

Back (chin up, bent over row and deadlift - 10 reps, 3-4 sets)

Shoulders (barbell clean and press, dumbbell lateral raise, upright row and military press - 10 reps, 3-4 sets)

Arms (standing barbell curl, seated barbell curl, close grip bench press and standing barbell tricep extension - 10 reps, 3-4 sets),

Forearms (wrist curls and reverse wrist curls - 10 reps, 3-4 sets)

Legs (squat, lunch and leg curl - 10 reps, 3-4 sets)

Lower back (stiff leg deadlift and 'good mornings' - 10 reps, 3-4 sets),

Calves (standing calf raise - 10 reps, 3-4 sets)

Abs (weighted crunches - 10 reps, 5 sets)