Chark Round 2

[Chark]

Hey fellas!

Wanted to make another log to share my 2nd cycle with you guys. This won’t be as detailed as my my 1st cycle log (please check out if you haven’t) to save time and avoid repeating many of the same things but will be more of pic updates and how I feel the compounds are working for me.

16 weeks (hcg throughout)

1-5: volumization/estrogen phase (using 10mg nolva daily)
500mg test + 25mg dbol (pwo)

6-11: anabolic phase
350mg test (may go lower) + 400mg primo + 50mg var

12-16: androgen phase
500mg test (may go lower) + 25mg winstrol + 400mg mast

I like this phase cycling approach as it’ll give me an opportunity to experiment with several compounds that are new to me at reasonable dosages (avoiding nandrolone derivatives at this stage). The reasoning for lowering test during anabolic phase was after learning during my 1st cycle that I got acne issues after adding Var to test. I spoke with gearheaded about it and he said it’s due to the lowering of SHBG and not simply that it’s DHT derived and that to combat I could lower my conversion to DHT via test.

I’m currently a few days into beginning week 4. I’m learning that I handle estrogenic compounds well as someone had said in my 1st cycle log. I’m not bloated or moonfaced from dbol + test. The following pics are 3 weeks apart. June 5 vs June 26. Keep in mind too in before pic this was just getting back in gym after Corona.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Following

[charger69]

Let me guess. You have had a trainer in the past? I think I know him. LOL


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[charger69]

Do you really think you need the nolva?


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[Chark]

Do you really think you need the nolva?

There’s a good chance I don’t. Precautionary measure as a newb scared of methylestradiol. I’ll drop it once I’m off dbol.

Side note: This is a long time to run orals and not typically advised here. I don’t plan to structure future cycles in this way.

[SampsonandDelilah]

I’m plugged in Chark...excited to watch you crush it...again!

You’re an inspiration for us all and every newb should be following along as you set the bar high brother.

Good luck!!

[Chark]

I’m plugged in Chark...excited to watch you crush it...again!

You’re an inspiration for us all and every newb should be following along as you set the bar high brother.

Good luck!!

Thank you S&D, you’re an inspiration for me.
Much respect brother.

[Gallowmere]

Definitely in on this.
You respond to gear in ways that I don’t come across too often, especially given the reasonable dosages that you have been hitting.

[moetorious]

Good luck will be following along. Post your diet as well while your at it

[Chark]

Nearing end of 5 weeks with 500 test/25mg dbol. Here’s that in best lighting in gym.

[Chark]

In less good lighting and probably what I look like were I right in front of you.

[Chark]

5 week transformation, albeit better lighting and tan in “after” pic

[Chark]

Some things to add I missed in OP. I began my 1st cycle at 165lbs and topped out at around 192. Corona hit somewhere during my PCT and this cycle began around 7-8 weeks post PCT. During the off period I continued to eat similar to during cycle but only got home workouts in with what I had. I began this cycle at 177lbs and weighed 187 this morning which is the beginning of week 6. I now will drop dbol, reduce test to 350, and add in 50mg anavar + 400mg primobolan. I have everything I need to PCT off this cycle but the decision to cruise is something I’m still thinking over. I’m pretty happy right now with just dipping my toe in.

[JaneDoe]

Bump!!!

[JaneDoe]

This rotation of the phase cycling is by GearHeaded, great guru. It was a legend in this forum ... Ah, Chark, I am following this second cycle ... Few guys have fantastic genetics like yours. You are exceptional, you have everything to be one of the best bodybuilders.

[beanpo1e]

I enjoyed reading your first cycle. Looking forward to hearing your insights as you move forward.

[beanpo1e]

Saw your post on changing PCT start times based on the half life of compounds your using. Are you going to change your PCT this go around?

[Chark]

Been awhile since my last update. Had some life stuff get in the way of bodybuilding for a few days but back on track. I’m now 3.5 weeks into 350 test + 50 anavar + 400 primobolan. Dropping the test from 500 to 350 hasn’t rid me of acne, however it has been much more manageable with a rigid routine and supplementation. I had almost no acne on test + dbol. Has me wondering if I should avoid anavar unless I very specifically want it’s effects in favor of keeping test higher. Something to think about.

I weighed in at 189 this morning which i found interesting as i was 187 after 5 weeks of 500 test + 25 dbol. Estrogenic compounds don’t seem to hit me with much water retention. No discernible fat gain mirror wise, if anything I noticed that my stomach feels a little flatter...maybe that’s the anavar? It’s been 3.5 weeks so probably not still reaping the rewards of when I was at 500 test.

I swear this shirt is always clean. I grab it when I know I’m going to be flexing in the mirror.

[Chark]

Saw your post on changing PCT start times based on the half life of compounds your using. Are you going to change your PCT this go around?

Hey brother, great question, and welcome to the forum.

The PCT timing really depends on what compounds you’re using. The two weeks is a good benchmark. Since I’m planning on being on 350 test to end this cycle, I’ll stick to the two weeks. Were I to do 750, I might stretch it out to 2.5 or 3 weeks etc. My reasoning is the more you’re doing, the more that will be present as it half-lifes out of your system.

350 -> 175 -> 87 -> 43

750 -> 375 -> 187 -> 94

[beanpo1e]

Thanks that makes sense. So with something like prop you could conceivably start pct sooner than cyp for equivalent doses.

[Chark]

Thanks that makes sense. So with something like prop you could conceivably start pct sooner than cyp for equivalent doses.

Not conceivably, you definitely would start PCT sooner with prop than cyp. There are PCT-start time charts for esters somewhere here and found easily with google.

[Gallowmere]

Not conceivably, you definitely would start PCT sooner with prop than cyp. There are PCT-start time charts for esters somewhere here and found easily with google.

Keep in mind, a lot of those charts are based on the old (and wrong) calculated halflife values. Anyone who still believes that Prop has a 2 day half life, Enan 7 and Cyp 8 really needs to stop reading pharmaceutical inserts, and read some actual elimination studies.

[beanpo1e]

So PCT is more a function of getting your test levels low enough to kick start everything back into action.

[Chark]

So PCT is more a function of getting your test levels low enough to kick start everything back into action.

PCT is an attempt to trick your body into making test faster than it would on its own if you did nothing.

Your test levels are low because your balls go on vacation when you introduce any amount of outside test into your body. It takes awhile for them to get back to working again (because they are expecting you to inject more test). After a long enough period your balls will start doing their job again, but you’ll be at very low test levels while waiting on it. This is why people PCT, to shorten the waiting period.

Remember that it’s not a cumulative effect. If you were injecting 25mg test/week, even though you’re “using steroids,” you’d have less test than you would naturally even though you are using steroids. You probably produce ~50mg test/week naturally. You’re shutting down your natural production to 0 in favor of whatever mg/week you use.

[beanpo1e]

Are you having to get labs more frequently on cycle seeing that you are cycling more compounds? Or is it just during the dbol phase when you are more concerned about aromatization that you are getting more labs to dial in estrogen?

[Gallowmere]

Are you having to get labs more frequently on cycle seeing that you are cycling more compounds? Or is it just during the dbol phase when you are more concerned about aromatization that you are getting more labs to dial in estrogen?

You can’t dial in E2 with Dianabol based on labs. Sensitive E2 tests don’t detect methylestradiol.
Same way the methylDHT metabolite from Anadrol doesn’t show up on sensitive DHT tests.

[beanpo1e]

So when people advise you to know how your body responds to a test only cycle before adding another compound like Dianabol or Anadrol, it's in part because you are only going to be able to modulate SERMS/AI based on subjective experience of symptoms not objectively with labwork?

[Gallowmere]

So when people advise you to know how your body responds to a test only cycle before adding another compound like Dianabol or Anadrol, it's in part because you are only going to be able to modulate SERMS/AI based on subjective experience of symptoms not objectively with labwork?

Pretty much.
Bloodwork is more for watching specific health markers than “is this gear doing what I am expecting it to?” Most gear doesn’t aromatize at all (or so little as to be irrelevant), and one of those that does can’t be checked with bloods.
Same thing as how nandrolone does all kinds of crazy shit to serum testosterone level tests, but is ignored by the LC-MS/MS test.
Also how Anadrol can activate E2 receptors all on it’s own, even though it doesn’t aromatize at all (as such AIs are useless against it).
You have to learn how your body specifically responds to each compound in order to be able to make educated moves in compound choice and dosages there of.

[Chark]

Hey fellas, been way too long since an update. I’ll get some better pics as I want to show my peak at the end of each phase. I’m nearing end of my 350 test/400 primo/50 var.

I snapped a couple pics when I got to the gym yesterday. This is with NO PUMP. Var is keeping me hard and I like how primo is keeping me looking full.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Looking awesome brother! Full and vascular too, nice work killer!

[Chark]

6 weeks with 350 test/50 anavar/400 primobolan:

[Chark]

Last night with test/var/primo. Tomorrow begins test/mast/winny. Weight is 192, 25 lb gain.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Looking full Chark!

Can you post a pic of you before round 1 started?

Curious to know your diet as well. Just feel like you should be the poster boy (for lack of a better term) for guys that are just getting into the game. You embody what the journey should look like...

Awesome job as always and looking fantastic!

[Chark]

Thank you S&D!

The pics below of me are of my early thirties before my very first pin. I did make some major changes to diet and training when I began first cycle. I lifted off and on for about 15 years naturally. I ate pretty healthily because I was into it, mostly a low carb diet. After diving into researching training more, I realized the get-a-pump and leave workouts I saw the 300 lb lean pros doing weren’t going to cut it. I never lifted for strength (there was some progressive overload but not optimal for me) prior. I do believe I had good mind/muscle going into first cycle after years of pump workouts lol. The amounts I’m lifting now even aren’t much, but they’re improving and growing me. Nice that I’ve been able to get where I have with lifting what most lifters wouldn’t consider heavy at all.

Sample diet of my workdays the last few months:

1. Isolate, milk, PB, oats, banana
2. Quest bar (meh, definitely could be better)
3. Meal prep’d Chicken stir fry (veggies, white rice)
4. Meal prep’d filet mignon with rice
Workout
5. White bagel (with honey because I like)
6. Rotisserie chicken with potato/grass fed butter

I’d like to get fish/shrimp in there too but often don’t on workdays. Usually gets saved for the weekend. Instead of rotisserie chicken I’ll often have sausage/potato/green beans. On days where I’m not really feeling it I’ll have that shake for dinner without PB. Just being truthful about what I’m actually eating vs. listing a perfect diet. I also like to add in big spinach salads with lots of shredded turkey for a lunch. I usually find a way to get lean ground beef in there, either through tacos with high fiber tortillas or lately I’ve been craving Manwich lol.

On weekends I always make eggs for breakfast with some carb, throw in bacon if I feel like it cooking it. I like making fish and Brussel sprouts for dinner. A lot of just basic what I think of as bodybuilding meals. On weekends I don’t end up eating as many meals as I’ll have at least one meal of Chinese food or pizza or five guys.

I haven’t counted calories, I just eat a variety of meat and carbs and eyeball what is prob a 40/40/20 macro diet with micronutrients in there. Should be easy to add/cut food from. I’ve picked up a lot over the years from listening to people and incorporating it into what I’m doing, we’re constantly learning!! I’d be grateful for any suggestions you have about training, diet, or life!

[SampsonandDelilah]

Awesome!

[Testie]

Last night with test/var/primo. Tomorrow begins test/mast/winny. Weight is 192, 25 lb gain.

Quite a dramatic change from the start of your cycle awesome work!!!!

[JaneDoe]

Very good bro!

[ghettoboyd]

nice job brother im impressed to say the least...

[Booz]

Looking good mate
Looking forward to seeing where this takes you........

[beanpo1e]

Those are some impressive gains.