Sleep

[Test Monsterone]

It gets worse on anything but TRT, but I can’t sleep past 6 am most of the time. If I fall asleep at 2, I’m still up by 6. When I wake up I’m completely alert, instantly. Feels like my sleep wasn’t even that deep. Then I never remember my dreams, even though I remember dreaming.

This, in turn, leads to daytime naps when I can afford them, but it’s not enough. I miss the days when I could sleep 8-9 hours. They always say sleep is such an important part of recovery but unfortunately it’s not something we have any control over. I have no trouble falling asleep, so melatonin doesn’t really help. I’m curious if any of you have this issue on or off cycle and how you deal with it.

[Honkey_Kong]

It gets worse on anything but TRT, but I can’t sleep past 6 am most of the time. If I fall asleep at 2, I’m still up by 6. When I wake up I’m completely alert, instantly. Feels like my sleep wasn’t even that deep. Then I never remember my dreams, even though I remember dreaming.

This, in turn, leads to daytime naps when I can afford them, but it’s not enough. I miss the days when I could sleep 8-9 hours. They always say sleep is such an important part of recovery but unfortunately it’s not something we have any control over. I have no trouble falling asleep, so melatonin doesn’t really help. I’m curious if any of you have this issue on or off cycle and how you deal with it.

I've been having bad insomnia lately too. I've tried benzos in the past and they work great short-term. But you get hooked on them and they stop working. What I take every night are Benedryl tablets. I have to take 4 of them to even fall asleep.

[Test Monsterone]

I've been having bad insomnia lately too. I've tried benzos in the past and they work great short-term. But you get hooked on them and they stop working. What I take every night are Benedryl tablets. I have to take 4 of them to even fall asleep.

Man I would hate not being able to fall asleep, that’s even worse. At least I can manage a couple of hours before I wake up. I have some Ativans I can take, but I don’t know if they’ll help me through the night. It’s a testament to our shit sleep that we’re here on the forum, this early lol.

[Honkey_Kong]

Man I would hate not being able to fall asleep, that’s even worse. At least I can manage a couple of hours before I wake up. I have some Ativans I can take, but I don’t know if they’ll help me through the night. It’s a testament to our shit sleep that we’re here on the forum, this early lol.

I don't know if they'll keep you under all night, but they will definitely will help you get asleep. The problem with them is if you take them too often, they will lose their effectiveness and you'll get hooked. Then if you try to stop taking them you'll go days without sleep.

The benedryls work the best for me as far as OTC things go. But you build tolerance to them over time too. I find if I'm extremely tired, it's even more difficult to get to sleep.

[IronClydes]

When things get rough, I defer to one of the below tired (pun intended) and true options; however, I keep them to minimal use so I don’t adapt and require them incessantly:

1) melatonin 5mg w/ Benadryl 50 mg w/Motrin 4-600mg

2) alprazolam 1.5

3) Doxylamine Succinate Tablets, 50mg

4) Tylenol PM x2

I basically always try to do my best without; however, when needed, I rotate these options to avoid adapting to, increasing my tolerance to, or becoming addicted to any single one.


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[DADDYDBOL]

Yeah I have to take 3 to 6 tylenol PMs everynight

Melatonin has never worked for me nor phenibut

I do smoke cannabis and that does help or a couple glasses of cab will usually get me groggy

But all that just helps me get to sleep not sure about keeping you alseep I wish you luck because lack of sleep is one of the worst feelings in the world

[Honkey_Kong]

Yeah I have to take 3 to 6 tylenol PMs everynight

Melatonin has never worked for me nor phenibut

I do smoke cannabis and that does help or a couple glasses of cab will usually get me groggy

But all that just helps me get to sleep not sure about keeping you alseep I wish you luck because lack of sleep is one of the worst feelings in the world

Benedryl is the tylenol PM without the tylenol cut.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Benedryl is the tylenol PM without the tylenol cut.

Diphenhydramine- it’s the active ingredient in all OTC sleep medicines. It’s unbranded Benadryl

Tylenol PM, Advil PM, Excedrin PM. You get the picture.

I’m an awful sleeper and have made the rounds, sleep is basically divided in sleep latency (troubles falling asleep) and delta sleep (staying asleep) or a combination of both (me). Benzos and GABA drugs (ambien, lunesta) are supposed to address both but have extremely short half lives, benzodiazepines fall short in delta sleep studies and can lead to horrible “rebound insomnia”, as well as high abuse potential.
The best drug I’ve found is generic Desyryl (trazadone). Dosages between 50-250 mgs a night. It has the best delta wave sleep data and is cheap. It has a biphasic half life so it can lead to some next day grogginess. Booze is a big no no.

Sleep hygiene is essential. No electronics, perfect temperature and nice and dark. If you get restless, it’s best to get out of bed instead of lying there fighting it and thrashing around. Reading, writing or drawing is recommended to take your mind of it.

If staying asleep is truly the issue, I would look into talking to your doc about trazadone (thank me later). Diphenhydramine will work, but has an extremely long half life and has been shown to fizzle out after time.

Also want to ensure you don’t have apnea...which is what I’m in the process of finally addressing and coming to terms with. I’ve been managing with meds for far too long.

Big necks reduce oxygen absorption and breathing, think about it. We’re all meat heads.

Anyways, that’s my diatribe. Best of luck

[IronClydes]

Diphenhydramine- it’s the active ingredient in all OTC sleep medicines. It’s unbranded Benadryl

Tylenol PM, Advil PM, Excedrin PM. You get the picture.

I’m an awful sleeper and have made the rounds, sleep is basically divided in sleep latency (troubles falling asleep) and delta sleep (staying asleep) or a combination of both (me). Benzos and GABA drugs (ambien, lunesta) are supposed to address both but have extremely short half lives, benzodiazepines fall short in delta sleep studies and can lead to horrible “rebound insomnia”, as well as high abuse potential.
The best drug I’ve found is generic Desyryl (trazadone). Dosages between 50-250 mgs a night. It has the best delta wave sleep data and is cheap. It has a biphasic half life so it can lead to some next day grogginess. Booze is a big no no.

Sleep hygiene is essential. No electronics, perfect temperature and nice and dark. If you get restless, it’s best to get out of bed instead of lying there fighting it and thrashing around. Reading, writing or drawing is recommended to take your mind of it.

If staying asleep is truly the issue, I would look into talking to your doc about trazadone (thank me later). Diphenhydramine will work, but has an extremely long half life and has been shown to fizzle out after time.

Also want to ensure you don’t have apnea...which is what I’m in the process of finally addressing and coming to terms with. I’ve been managing with meds for far too long.

Big necks reduce oxygen absorption and breathing, think about it. We’re all meat heads.

Anyways, that’s my diatribe. Best of luck

Is it possible to find trazodone without a prescription? I am already diagnosed with sleep disorders… Sophronia, hypersomnia, etc. but, my doc is hesitant to mess around any more... we were looking at some sodium to put me out every night for a while there… It was highly controlled with a lot of red tape and I decided to go without.


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[SampsonandDelilah]

Is it possible to find trazodone without a prescription? I am already diagnosed with sleep disorders… Sophronia, hypersomnia, etc. but, my doc is hesitant to mess around any more... we were looking at some sodium to put me out every night for a while there… It was highly controlled with a lot of red tape and I decided to go without.


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I’ve never looked but I’m sure some Indian pharmacy would have it. I would start at 100 mgs.

It’s not a controlled substance and has no street value. I’m sure it’s around

[Test Monsterone]

Diphenhydramine- it’s the active ingredient in all OTC sleep medicines. It’s unbranded Benadryl

Tylenol PM, Advil PM, Excedrin PM. You get the picture.

I’m an awful sleeper and have made the rounds, sleep is basically divided in sleep latency (troubles falling asleep) and delta sleep (staying asleep) or a combination of both (me). Benzos and GABA drugs (ambien, lunesta) are supposed to address both but have extremely short half lives, benzodiazepines fall short in delta sleep studies and can lead to horrible “rebound insomnia”, as well as high abuse potential.
The best drug I’ve found is generic Desyryl (trazadone). Dosages between 50-250 mgs a night. It has the best delta wave sleep data and is cheap. It has a biphasic half life so it can lead to some next day grogginess. Booze is a big no no.

Sleep hygiene is essential. No electronics, perfect temperature and nice and dark. If you get restless, it’s best to get out of bed instead of lying there fighting it and thrashing around. Reading, writing or drawing is recommended to take your mind of it.

If staying asleep is truly the issue, I would look into talking to your doc about trazadone (thank me later). Diphenhydramine will work, but has an extremely long half life and has been shown to fizzle out after time.

Also want to ensure you don’t have apnea...which is what I’m in the process of finally addressing and coming to terms with. I’ve been managing with meds for far too long.

Big necks reduce oxygen absorption and breathing, think about it. We’re all meat heads.

Anyways, that’s my diatribe. Best of luck

That's a lot of good info, thanks! I'm going to ask my doc about trazadone. How long does it take to kick in? Would you take it if you woke up at, say, 2 am and still wanted to sleep 4 more hours, or is it longer acting?

I actually had 2 sleep apnea tests (both at home). The first one showed I had moderate sleep apnea, and the second one showed I had very mild apnea. I thought about this, but I'm not sure why having apnea would cause me to be awake. Maybe because if we don't get in deep sleep it's easier to wake up.


Do you guys wake up and turn throughout the night? I'm always waking, turning cause my arm fell asleep, or my shoulder hurts, or my ear is on fire. I remember the days that I wouldn't remember shit after putting my head down on the pillow till the moment I woke up. Never had sleep issues back then.

[SampsonandDelilah]

You’re basically describing every night for me. I toss and turn, my shoulders ache, my ears will burn and my hands are always asleep because I sleep with one folded under me. If I sleep on my back, I snore like crazy and cut off my air (hence the sleep study).

Trazadone is an interesting drug. It’s actually a really shitty antidepressant, but shows really good sleep impact at low dosages (50-200ish). It’s not really intended for sleep latency (falling asleep) but more for keeping you asleep and shows good impact on delta wave/REM sleep. Think of it as not really lighting the fuse, but keeping it lit once it’s starts. I will sometimes use it in conjunction with Xanax (.25) or a 5 mg ambien if I’m struggling to fall asleep.

It takes around 45 minutes to kick in so timing the dose is important and good sleep hygiene states you should shoot for the same bedtime each night. So say your goal is to be asleep by 10 every night, you should take it around 9 and climb into bed and start reading until you get sleepy, then you should be good to go, turn your lamp off and night night.
Now if I’m consistently waking up in the middle of the nigh (say 2 am every night) and can’t fall back asleep (this happens a lot when I travel for work) I will keep an ambien or sliver of Xanax on the nightstand and take it in case of emergency in order to help get me back asleep. I find that doesn’t happen if I’m diligent around my bed time, practicing good sleep hygiene and staying off of my phone in bed.

What I’ve learned is by continually having poor sleep, we can throw off our circadian rhythm and fall into poor sleeping habits. There is also data around hormonal imbalances and circadian rhythms as well as a depletion of the bodies ability to produce natural melatonin. Well hello, we are constantly messing with our hormones and the muscle mass puts strain on the joints (sore shoulders) and the mass can impact the thoracic spine and the ulnar nerve (hello numb hands).

We are kind of a perfect storm. Add in a big neck and it goofs up our pallet and we’re not getting the oxygen that we need. Could be one thing but in all reality it’s probably a combination of them all.

Hope this helps, as I said, I’ve been battling this a long time but don’t do myself any favors either and have gotten by with over medicating myself in order to sleep. My goal this year is to get a sleep study, practice better sleep hygiene and be kinder to my body around being a mass monster and putting unnecessary strain on my joints!

[IronClydes]

You’re basically describing every night for me. I toss and turn, my shoulders ache, my ears will burn and my hands are always asleep because I sleep with one folded under me. If I sleep on my back, I snore like crazy and cut off my air (hence the sleep study).

Trazadone is an interesting drug. It’s actually a really shitty antidepressant, but shows really good sleep impact at low dosages (50-200ish). It’s not really intended for sleep latency (falling asleep) but more for keeping you asleep and shows good impact on delta wave/REM sleep. Think of it as not really lighting the fuse, but keeping it lit once it’s starts. I will sometimes use it in conjunction with Xanax (.25) or a 5 mg ambien if I’m struggling to fall asleep.

It takes around 45 minutes to kick in so timing the dose is important and good sleep hygiene states you should shoot for the same bedtime each night. So say your goal is to be asleep by 10 every night, you should take it around 9 and climb into bed and start reading until you get sleepy, then you should be good to go, turn your lamp off and night night.
Now if I’m consistently waking up in the middle of the nigh (say 2 am every night) and can’t fall back asleep (this happens a lot when I travel for work) I will keep an ambien or sliver of Xanax on the nightstand and take it in case of emergency in order to help get me back asleep. I find that doesn’t happen if I’m diligent around my bed time, practicing good sleep hygiene and staying off of my phone in bed.

What I’ve learned is by continually having poor sleep, we can throw off our circadian rhythm and fall into poor sleeping habits. There is also data around hormonal imbalances and circadian rhythms as well as a depletion of the bodies ability to produce natural melatonin. Well hello, we are constantly messing with our hormones and the muscle mass puts strain on the joints (sore shoulders) and the mass can impact the thoracic spine and the ulnar nerve (hello numb hands).

We are kind of a perfect storm. Add in a big neck and it goofs up our pallet and we’re not getting the oxygen that we need. Could be one thing but in all reality it’s probably a combination of them all.

Hope this helps, as I said, I’ve been battling this a long time but don’t do myself any favors either and have gotten by with over medicating myself in order to sleep. My goal this year is to get a sleep study, practice better sleep hygiene and be kinder to my body around being a mass monster and putting unnecessary strain on my joints!

Perfectly said.

I’ve been in 5 sleep studies and several meds, I’m interested in trying that stuff.

I googled and found it at many vet clinics online, and cheap, but a script is needed.

No luck finding a retailer yet that will sell without a script...

Anxious to try!


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[SampsonandDelilah]

I’ll try and take a look too and see if I can find one. What about the Canadian meds online route?
I’m sure a telemedicine doc would RX easily. Like I said, not controlled and pretty innocuous

[Test Monsterone]

Sampson, I also try not to sleep on my back for the same reason. I have woken myself up from snoring too loudly a bunch of times. I catch like the last split second of the snore as I awaken. Nowadays I use a bunch of king sized pillows to prop me up, as sleeping on my back is my ideal way to sleep and sometimes the only way I can fall asleep. Eventually I end up on my side with a pillow under my arm and about 4 under my head. I sometimes take pillows with me if I’m going away from home. My pillows end up like pancakes after a few months anyway. Which reminds me, I need new pillows.

I have a script for Ativan that I use on rare occasions, so I wonder if the psychiatrist would be the one to prescribe Trazadone or if I need to talk to a sleep specialist.

I think once you get over 240 the neck size becomes an issue. Mine is 18.5-19 right now. It’s nice not having a pencil neck until I have to sleep.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Ativan is a higher powered Xanax (I’m sure you know that. Same class/benzodiazepine). A psych could write it, sleep specialist or even a GP. It’s an extremely common medication and not seen as habit forming.

I would just ask for it by name and ask for 100 mgs. Start with 50 (split them and you can stretch them out) and if necessary you can easily titrate.

I have a really similar setup TMO, I actually travel with my pillow for work or leisure. On my back is ideal but I go the through the same algorithm you just described.

As far as neck, exactly. During chemo/radiation, when I dropped the 30# pounds, my snoring basically stopped because I went from a 20” neck down to a 16.5”. I’m at about 19” now and yup, the snoring is back. Pencil neck be damned

[Test Monsterone]

Damn, you lost that much size in your neck during that time? I do notice that the heavier the cycle I run, the more I snore. Around here, the air gets really dry in the winter and that also causes me to snore and wake up with a sore throat. I have a humidifier on the night stand next to me which helps a ton with that. I need to stop forgetting to use it.

Btw I think Xanax is the stronger one. Ativan lasts a little longer but takes longer to kick in. Maybe Kolonopin is stronger than Xanax. When I have taken Xanax before, it hit me pretty quickly and made me very sleepy. With Ativan, you’ll forget you took one and wonder why you’re so relaxed after a few hours. I’ve used it for interviews, presentations, flying, etc., but not for sleep, since it takes so long to kick in.

Thanks for all the help with this. Sucks you have the same problem, but glad I’m not the only one.

[IronClydes]

I’ll try and take a look too and see if I can find one. What about the Canadian meds online route?
I’m sure a telemedicine doc would RX easily. Like I said, not controlled and pretty innocuous

I haven’t researched that route previously. Was hoping to make a simple order of it without hoops and docs. I’ll take a look at it, thanks


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[SampsonandDelilah]

So I actually work for big pharma (yes, evil evil) and was in the sleep/psych/neurology sector for about 6 years. Both drugs are indicated for anxiety/panic disorders but ativan actually has an insomnia indication. Ativan has a slightly longer half life which is why I referred to it as “stronger”. It will usually last 8 hours whereas alprazolam lasts around 5 (immediate release versions). Xanax takes less time to “kick in” which changes the perception but wears off quicker which is why lorazepam (ativan( has the insomnia indication). Klonopin is a benzo also but had an insanely long 1/2 life and multiple indications as an anxiety Med but also an anticonvulsant. Phew, long winded but that’s the science.

Ya man, my neck fucking shrank. I lost weight in my neck, face, chest and shoulders first and during treatment it just fell off. My neck especially, good news is it’s the first place it comes back and I’m only about 12 pounds off my starting weight but actually am preferring this weight. Less snoring for sure (still do though) but mobility is better and my joints are feeling a little better too. Anyways...

I’m with you, enjoy having this conversation as misery loves company but definitely wish neither of us were inflicted as insomnia is the worst. I’be changed mattress, window coverings, pillows, ceiling fans, humidifiers, I mean everything...with the exception of a CPAP. I had a study scheduled last spring and then got my cancer diagnosis and well, that put everything on hold. I couldn’t sleep for shit on treatment, mostly the pain and stress but also the mega doses of prednisone every week made me an insomniac crazy person! Really hoping this study helps. In the meantime though, trazadone really has been my saving grace. I do use it with a benzo on occasion and have rotated ipralorelin, semorelin acetate and MK677 in conjunction. It works and I hit REM but almost every day I’m groggy as shit to start my day and am also like a narcoleptic at night, I can fall asleep mid sentence sometimes. I’ll go lie down and then I’m wide awake again, it’s maddening. Definitely off on my sleep cycle and finally planning on something outside of poly pharmacy to address it.

Keep me posted on this thread as to how your journey goes and I’ll do the same. I’ve swapped some PM’s with some fellas on here and you and I are not the only ones TMO dealing with this, which reinforces my theory around neck size and hormones and their role in sleep as well.

Damn, that was long winded. Lol. Thanks for sticking with me

Best

[Test Monsterone]

I guess I was preaching to the choir lol. Seems like you've tried pretty much everything, minus the cpap. Personally, I'm not trying to get any more massive. If anything I would want to get leaner and maintain weight. Better for mobility, breathing, sleep and overall health. btw I don't think big pharma is evil, except for making Viagra so damn expensive lol. I'll post back whatever I end up doing. thanks guys.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Well thank you, I like to think of big pharma as at the forefront of public health. Funny though because in most Gallup polls it ranks behind only lawyers and big tobacco as the most hated industries.

TMO, weren’t you the one that was at the WOW in Waltham? Remember I recognized the pics? I think that was you anyways? I was in Cambridge and Lexington working at the home office for 2 years. If indeed it was you, you’re in the hub of biotechnology and pharmaceuticals! It’s crazy how many companies are out there!

Back to the point, yup definitely you and I in the choir. It’s good to know I’m not alone and hoping we can learn some tips and tricks as sleep is the most important and underrated thing that we do. We spend SO much of our life doing it.

Have a great week bro!

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I don't think it hurts once in a while to go a day or two without sleep. Wake up on Friday morning and then don't go to sleep until about 7:30pm on Sunday evening. Watch trilogies, Hannibal Lector, all the Star Trek and Xmen movies. Totally wear your brain and mind out.

My main sleep aid is meditation. Usually I meditate for an hour in the morning before work, but sometimes if I'm restless in bed at night I'll meditate for an hour and then turn over and sleep.

The stress and pressure of lockdown has me taking a little cannabis at night time before bed here on holiday, but I'm giving it up when I get home. When I get home I'm just gonna run for an hour every day and then binge-watch Netflix in the evening (hopefully without alcohol).

When I wake up I’m completely alert, instantly.

That's really not cool, man. When you wake up you're supposed to be groggy and not in the mood for anything intricate. If you're bright as a button when you wake up then it affects your ability to relax and unwind and chill. I've been like that before, for a few years after my expartner died, I was 100% alert the moment I woke up. Only recently am I beginning to be groggy and not in the mood for bullshit in the morning.

If there's a temple or meditation centre near you, you could ask them if you could 'join the programme' for a weekend, it might sort your head out. I do longer stints of 10 days of silence every December.

Being 100% alert when you wake up really isn't a good thing.

[Test Monsterone]

Well thank you, I like to think of big pharma as at the forefront of public health. Funny though because in most Gallup polls it ranks behind only lawyers and big tobacco as the most hated industries.

TMO, weren’t you the one that was at the WOW in Waltham? Remember I recognized the pics? I think that was you anyways? I was in Cambridge and Lexington working at the home office for 2 years. If indeed it was you, you’re in the hub of biotechnology and pharmaceuticals! It’s crazy how many companies are out there!

Back to the point, yup definitely you and I in the choir. It’s good to know I’m not alone and hoping we can learn some tips and tricks as sleep is the most important and underrated thing that we do. We spend SO much of our life doing it.

Have a great week bro!

Hmm... That must have been someone else. My mom is in the medical industry as a practitioner, and I worked in the dental sector for a while, on the business side of things.

I’m sure when people meet you for the first time at the office they’re shocked lol. Most guys don’t know what a gym looks like.

Take care brother

[< <Samson> >]

I’m still on xAnax for sleep - I just get em from Mx

I’m at a solid 1mg rn

I have to go to bed early, since no matter the time I fall asleep - I wake up between 3-6. . . Lately it’s been back to right at 4:30am

I’m asleep by 8-9pm

Some nights I can get away without the xAnax - if I’m dead tired & my anxiety isn’t trying to run away for no reason

But, yeah - if I tried to be cool & go to bed at like 11 to midnight, I’d still wake up before 6


Works out for me - so far

[Murph9]

Melatonin works for me but I can’t use it consistently- It becomes ineffective after a week or so. Most everything over the counter makes me groggy the next day. At this point, I’m more of a cycle sleeper. Two or so bad nights, then a really good night with Melatonin. I had insomnia in college and that was back when new sleeping pills were coming out every week. Ran through quite a few but they all had side effects that seemed to offset the benefit of sleep, so I really have tried to stay away from scrip sleeping aids.

[Lee_1978]

You’re basically describing every night for me. I toss and turn, my shoulders ache, my ears will burn and my hands are always asleep because I sleep with one folded under me. If I sleep on my back, I snore like crazy and cut off my air (hence the sleep study).

Trazadone is an interesting drug. It’s actually a really shitty antidepressant, but shows really good sleep impact at low dosages (50-200ish). It’s not really intended for sleep latency (falling asleep) but more for keeping you asleep and shows good impact on delta wave/REM sleep. Think of it as not really lighting the fuse, but keeping it lit once it’s starts. I will sometimes use it in conjunction with Xanax (.25) or a 5 mg ambien if I’m struggling to fall asleep.

It takes around 45 minutes to kick in so timing the dose is important and good sleep hygiene states you should shoot for the same bedtime each night. So say your goal is to be asleep by 10 every night, you should take it around 9 and climb into bed and start reading until you get sleepy, then you should be good to go, turn your lamp off and night night.
Now if I’m consistently waking up in the middle of the nigh (say 2 am every night) and can’t fall back asleep (this happens a lot when I travel for work) I will keep an ambien or sliver of Xanax on the nightstand and take it in case of emergency in order to help get me back asleep. I find that doesn’t happen if I’m diligent around my bed time, practicing good sleep hygiene and staying off of my phone in bed.

What I’ve learned is by continually having poor sleep, we can throw off our circadian rhythm and fall into poor sleeping habits. There is also data around hormonal imbalances and circadian rhythms as well as a depletion of the bodies ability to produce natural melatonin. Well hello, we are constantly messing with our hormones and the muscle mass puts strain on the joints (sore shoulders) and the mass can impact the thoracic spine and the ulnar nerve (hello numb hands).

We are kind of a perfect storm. Add in a big neck and it goofs up our pallet and we’re not getting the oxygen that we need. Could be one thing but in all reality it’s probably a combination of them all.

Hope this helps, as I said, I’ve been battling this a long time but don’t do myself any favors either and have gotten by with over medicating myself in order to sleep. My goal this year is to get a sleep study, practice better sleep hygiene and be kinder to my body around being a mass monster and putting unnecessary strain on my joints!

Do you think that cycling has impacted your sleep for the worst?

[SampsonandDelilah]

Do you think that cycling has impacted your sleep for the worst?

I do. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that my sleep issues started around the time I started cycling more consistently and putting on extra muscle mass. I think there’s a physiological component due to a change in hormones and a physical component due to extra muscle mass and changes in neck, arm and shoulder size

[< <Samson> >]

I do. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that my sleep issues started around the time I started cycling more consistently and putting on extra muscle mass. I think there’s a physiological component due to a change in hormones and a physical component due to extra muscle mass and changes in neck, arm and shoulder size

Same here - sorta

But, at the same time not - my mom has not touched a drug in her life, let alone roids. Around her late 30’s her sleep went to shit - I mean shit. She’d barely sleep 2-3 hours per nite & refused all meds till the recent years.

Maybe the combo of both - hereditary & roids/drugs

+ after my “head stuff” my sleep is straight off. I’m working with it - but, just like rn - it’s 3am, and I’m wide awake, listening to the wife snore. But, I was deep asleep by 7:30-8 last nite

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I do. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that my sleep issues started around the time I started cycling more consistently and putting on extra muscle mass. I think there’s a physiological component due to a change in hormones and a physical component due to extra muscle mass and changes in neck, arm and shoulder size

I suppose this begs the question:

Would you consider dropping 60 lbs of muscle for the sake of other physiological benefits? Obviously you won't be as strong and you won't look as big.

I'm only a little bit muscular -- people notice that I work out -- and while it would be cool to be 40 - 60 lbs heavier, I'd consider some other stuff that will be affected (e.g. sleep, manoeuvreability, flexibility, whether I can run a marathon).

If I needed one of those machines to keep me breathing when I sleep then I'd definitely drop muscle. That's just me.

I'd really like to compete in Thai Boxing again and I think I'd have a shot at the Irish / European title, but I'm not willing to drop from 70kg back down to 52kg. I don't think I'd succeed fighting at 70kg. I want to get heavier, maybe I'll reach 80kg in 2021.

I'm hoping to bench 100kg for the first time this year -- I'm already at 92.5 kg.