Lab rat chronicles- estrogen phase of cycle.

[charger69]

I am starting this thread to try and convince others that letting your estrogen rise does increase your growth. There are numerous people out there that say this is not true and many reasons why it doesn’t work, but have never tried it and bro science knows better.
I used to believe in AI’s for every cycle and think that you needed to use them. Experience has told me differently.
I am on phase 2 of my cycle. I am only concerned with phase 2 in this log so please don’t take what I am posting and make a 12 week cycle out of it.
Phase 2
1.2 g test
750 deca
210 tren
50mg MENT- daily
Anadrol 2x week on leg day- weak body part
4iu HGH
30 iu slin- post and pre

I am high on the test to raise the estrogen- NOTE: these are expiremental dosages. I did have a cycle higher but I had to abort because of endema.
Please do not try this. This can be dangerous for the inexperienced. I do not know if these dosages are right for me or still too high.... I do know that I was growing like a weed on the last one but had to abort.
I am a week into this and I am still vascular. I expected it to go away. I do see water retention, but nothing major. I am feeling great however I have noticed that I get out of breathe quite quickly. It could be water retention, tren, workout speed or lack of cardio. Due to covid, operations, etc. I have not done cardio in about 9 months. I am going to start slowly doing cardio.

Buckle your seatbelt because this may be a crazy ride. I really have no idea what will happen.

The end Intent is to show people that there are benefits to letting your estrogen go. Remember this is a high test and high estrogen cycle. Please do not confuse it with a low test and high estrogen condition. Usually that is what people refer to when they say this is hog wash.
Did you know that a high test and high estrogen condition has increased libido? Thee are studies showing this. Not what was to be expected.

[SteroidKiwi]

I agree. Some people just don't believe in actual science.

[Gallowmere]

In on this. We need more anecdotal proof of this, because it’s never going to be properly studied. In this game, the only way to know is to show.

[kelkel]

Looking forward to your progress. PICS, PICS!

Catchy title btw.

[Lethal Hamburger]

I will be following this too.
A wild experiment in raising androgen to estrogen ratios gives me the shits tbh.
Out of respect for your sacrifice upon the altar of science I will have the approved popcorn at the ready.
Goodluck man and I just hope you aren't indicated for anything sensitive to estrogen or androgens for that matter.
Please be careful.

[charger69]

I would like to mention that I am open to all comments for and against what I am doing. I am trying to learn through this processs and sometimes we miss details that others may see. My conditions are probably a littel different than most people on this site... I am 54 yo. I also am not taking GH right now because I need to have a TSH blood test for thyroid.
HGH was 6 iu last time, but due to water retention, I am stayinhg at 4 iu.

My workout today was great. I did bicep and tricep. I am feeling gassed just after the set. I have upped the tempo more than I have been and start out with supersets. Since it is the only gym around that is open, it is difficult to get in supersets...... or at least I do not like to hold up equipment from others. You get people that will bput their bag by one machine and their water bottle by the other, then get pissed that you work in while they are not using it. I am taking tren so I stay away from confrontation. LOL Actually, I am taking so little that I do not even feel it. My strength seemed to be up today. The weight seemed easier however I do not jump. I go one more rep than last time and stop. I have jumped before and then immediately hit a plataue. I forgot my PWO with dextrose and could feel the susgar a little lower than normal however it was not enough to affect the workout.
I was planning on putting the drip guard and shingles on my gym roof today, but decided to relax and watch football.
Tomorrow is leg day. workout in the morning and in the afternoon.
NOTE: Kelkel- I told you that my goal was to get the vacualrity in my legs. I am getting there slow but sure.
My vasularity seems to be getting more pronounced than less. This i do not understand.

[charger69]

Still feeling great. No endema....yet. My arms still felt inflated from yesterday’s workout.
Today in the morning was quads. I added 50 mg anadrol and about 30 mg nandrolone base.
Workout was great, I did t seem to suffer so much from the breathing.
I switched up my workout because it seemed like everyone wanted to do legs today. LOL
I also lowered the weight and upped the reps a little... I was plateauing on belt squats. My knee seemed pretty good also.


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[Cuz]

Still feeling great. No endema....yet. My arms still felt inflated from yesterday’s workout.
Today in the morning was quads. I added 50 mg anadrol and about 30 mg nandrolone base.
Workout was great, I did t seem to suffer so much from the breathing.
I switched up my workout because it seemed like everyone wanted to do legs today. LOL
I also lowered the weight and upped the reps a little... I was plateauing on belt squats. My knee seemed pretty good also.


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Kill it big guy!

[charger69]

Well, being the only gym open due to covid last night was terrible. I had to wait for equipment. I was on the leg curl machine and did 6 sets ( including warm up) and started at the same time as someone on the seated curl. He was texting like crazy so I asked how many more sets. He said 2 and continues texting. I started pacing. I think he got the hint because it was only one set that he did. I came very close to asking him if I could work in with hi. While he was texting.
I am feeling great still. I was looking full as crap this morning.
I am in CA so I can’t get bloods without a DR order. I normally would go to Mexico and get bloods however if I leave the country I need to self quarantine for 14 days. I also do not know if they can do the estradiol essay. I previously asked for the types of estrogen tests and they told me there was only one. I do not know how to say it in Spanish- or if it even exists in Spanish.
My libido is through the roof. High estrogen and libido.... a contradiction of terms?? NOPE

This pic is for Kelkel- slow but sure I am getting the leg vascularity.



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[SampsonandDelilah]

Time for new footwear Charger, you’ve earned it

Keep killing brother!! The two pics you’ve posted, you look like a roadmap. Awesome

[Lethal Hamburger]

No contradiction seen.
High estrogen is rarely the issue singularly, but is a problem when the a/e ratio suffers a deficit in androgen availabilty.
Raised progesterone is indicated as being the likely culprit in the proverbial throwing of a bucket of ice water on libido, rather than just high e2 levels.
Progesterone, the often omitted nemesis of functioning male sexual desire.
Bro science just overlooks this hormone and fingers prolactin..

[charger69]

No contradiction seen.
High estrogen is rarely the issue singularly, but is a problem when the a/e ratio suffers a deficit in androgen availabilty.
Raised progesterone is indicated as being the likely culprit in the proverbial throwing of a bucket of ice water on libido, rather than just high e2 levels.
Progesterone, the often omitted nemesis of functioning male sexual desire.
Bro science just overlooks this hormone and fingers prolactin..

I grow wary by the day.

I am taking what others have said. Those that understand what I am doing already know the answers.
I was surprised by the number of disbelievers.
Actually, I am thinking that it is actually a ratio of test to estrogen but I have no proof. I am hoping that someone can shed light onto that.


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[charger69]

Still feeling good. A little tired but a lot of pressure at work and putting in long hours. Started back up on HGH


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[SampsonandDelilah]

Still feeling good. A little tired but a lot of pressure at work and putting in long hours. Started back up on HGH


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Running GH along with MK?

Branded or a colored top and how many iu’s?

So many questions Charger, sorry!

Looking solid

[charger69]

Running GH along with MK?

Branded or a colored top and how many iu’s?

So many questions Charger, sorry!

Looking solid

Yes GH and MK. Last time I did 6 iu. I am keeping it at 4 this time. I had issues with my wrist and endemA. I store a lot of water with GH.
I think it has a blue top.
I
Am already about to learn something..... what does the different tops mean?


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[SampsonandDelilah]

Yes GH and MK. Last time I did 6 iu. I am keeping it at 4 this time. I had issues with my wrist and endemA. I store a lot of water with GH.
I think it has a blue top.
Am already about to learn something..... what does the different tops mean?


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My hands go insanely numb on MK and Ipramorelin. I’ve yet to run HGH but change my mind daily.

No clue on the colored tops! I’ve just heard that the blue ones are usually preferred or the black. I was asking so if I decide to order, which color to target. Lol

[kelkel]

Well, being the only gym open due to covid last night was terrible. I had to wait for equipment. I was on the leg curl machine and did 6 sets ( including warm up) and started at the same time as someone on the seated curl. He was texting like crazy so I asked how many more sets. He said 2 and continues texting. I started pacing. I think he got the hint because it was only one set that he did. I came very close to asking him if I could work in with hi. While he was texting.
I am feeling great still. I was looking full as crap this morning.
I am in CA so I can’t get bloods without a DR order. I normally would go to Mexico and get bloods however if I leave the country I need to self quarantine for 14 days. I also do not know if they can do the estradiol essay. I previously asked for the types of estrogen tests and they told me there was only one. I do not know how to say it in Spanish- or if it even exists in Spanish.
My libido is through the roof. High estrogen and libido.... a contradiction of terms?? NOPE

This pic is for Kelkel- slow but sure I am getting the leg vascularity.



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Yes. Yes you are!

[charger69]

Time for an update. Things have been going crazy for me so I haven’t posted in awhile.
I am on my last week. I am feeling a little more tired. I usually get up at 2:45 am but the past week to two weeks it’s been 3:15.-3:30.
I also fall asleep earlier.
The cycle may play a role, but I think the stress at work is more of a major player.
I have grown quite a bit. The downside is my BP is high. I take metaprolol for arythmia so I thought that would control it. NOPE. I have atenolol but I do not want to mix the two.
Libido is still very high.

Adding the anadrol on leg day gives me just the right boost.

I finally crossed the 240 lb mark.. 241.3 this morning.

I have been out of breath doing simple things and I thought that it may be from the cycle, but I think that it is more likely from the lack of cardio and the increase in weight. I will be starting cardio soon.
I will blame it on coronavirus.


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[fit_deskjocky]

I will blame it on coronavirus.

Gyms have been crazy this year too. I have never seen them this busy. I don't know if it's corona related but I felt your pain with having to switch up your workouts with what's available. It forces flexibility but I paint myself into a corner with available muscle groups in the latter part of the week

charger, you're an engineer too aren't you? I can't help but notice the correlation between us engineers being overworked and overstressed.

[Krb367]

240 and lean. Jesus Christ lol what was your starting weight?

What were you in your avatar?

[charger69]

240 and lean. Jesus Christ lol what was your starting weight?

What were you in your avatar?

No!!!! Not lean. I started around 220. My avi I was about 200 and lean.
I haven’t done cardio in about 9 months.
I want to compete at 220 and 6-7% bf.


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[charger69]

Gyms have been crazy this year too. I have never seen them this busy. I don't know if it's corona related but I felt your pain with having to switch up your workouts with what's available. It forces flexibility but I paint myself into a corner with available muscle groups in the latter part of the week

charger, you're an engineer too aren't you? I can't help but notice the correlation between us engineers being overworked and overstressed.

Yes. Aerospace and space structures.
$10M incentives for on time delivery. That gets the directors riled up when we are at risk of the incentive. LOL

We have been hiring the whole time during the pandemic.


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[fit_deskjocky]

Yes. Aerospace and space structures.
$10M incentives for on time delivery. That gets the directors riled up when we are at risk of the incentive. LOL

We have been hiring the whole time during the pandemic.


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And somewhere through all that you have to get to the gym. We have been hiring as well and it's still been hard to find good people. At the same time they froze raises and promotions last year due to the uncertainty, which I was up for both. Essential never felt so unappreciated.

[charger69]

I am trying to figure things out. I suffered a short decrease in strength and now I am breaking through. Strength is up, I also am getting bigger. I still do not have the stamina, but oh boy. Something is clicking.
I will say that my body is sort of looking forward to changing up. I don’t know how to explain it. I want to stay on cause things are progressing, but my body is telling me to change.

Also , today, the libido is through the roof. I am usually not like this, but damn, keep me away from females or I may get in trouble. LOL

This phase is ending with a bang. LOL


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[fit_deskjocky]

Are you moving into an Anabolic phase following the Estrogen phase?

[charger69]

Are you moving into an Anabolic phase following the Estrogen phase?

Yes sir!


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[fit_deskjocky]

I didn't feel like much really changed into the Anabolic phase. You're still running Deca so should have some Estrogen. I guess switching to Var helps blunt some of it. With the phased cycle, I didn't like how quickly it changed to a different phase, about as soon as a compound really kicks and starts working, it's switched for a different phase. I felt like the first 2 phases needed to be atleast 8 weeks each

[charger69]

I didn't feel like much really changed into the Anabolic phase. You're still running Deca so should have some Estrogen. I guess switching to Var helps blunt some of it. With the phased cycle, I didn't like how quickly it changed to a different phase, about as soon as a compound really kicks and starts working, it's switched for a different phase. I felt like the first 2 phases needed to be atleast 8 weeks each

I am just the opposite. I look forward to moving to the next phase. Right now, eNdema is starting to be noted. I would make changes if I were near the middle of the phase. I have 4 days left so I am going to ride it out.
The estrogen phase really taxes my body. I love the growth but my body is ready to move on. BP is also high. I also gain weight so the additional weight and estrogen, water, etc is taxing.


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[fit_deskjocky]

I am just the opposite. I look forward to moving to the next phase. Right now, eNdema is starting to be noted. I would make changes if I were near the middle of the phase. I have 4 days left so I am going to ride it out.
The estrogen phase really taxes my body. I love the growth but my body is ready to move on. BP is also high. I also gain weight so the additional weight and estrogen, water, etc is taxing.


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I'm such a hard gainer I have to stay in that Estrogen phase as long as possible. I wonder if the shorter esters such as NPP would be better in an Estrogen phase since you're only in it for 6 weeks

[charger69]

I'm such a hard gainer I have to stay in that Estrogen phase as long as possible. I wonder if the shorter esters such as NPP would be better in an Estrogen phase since you're only in it for 6 weeks

Well I started deca in phase 1 and use it in all phases. I frontload the deca also so by the end of the first week, I am seeing the benefits.


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[fit_deskjocky]

How much did you front load with in addition to the 750 of Deca. The engineer in me is like with the decoanate ester having a 4 week total breakdown. Do you try to feel 750mgs worth that first week? If so are you pinning 3,000mgs your first week, (4x750). Or do you tend to feel a lower concentration of Deca

[Wannabhuge14]

Well I started deca in phase 1 and use it in all phases. I frontload the deca also so by the end of the first week, I am seeing the benefits.


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Outta curiosity, what does a complete phase cycle look like for you? All 3 phases that is

[fit_deskjocky]

Since you are using GH's phased approach. What are you planning on cruising on in between cycles. If I recall he wants you off all andros and has you using either Primo or EQ only, No Test. If I read that correctly?

[charger69]

Since you are using GH's phased approach. What are you planning on cruising on in between cycles. If I recall he wants you off all andros and has you using either Primo or EQ only, No Test. If I read that correctly?

I am on TRT so I go to TRT dosage of test and primo.
Also, I misspoke. I do not have deca in phase 3.
I think I nailed the estrogen phase with the dosage. I survived it this time.


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[charger69]

Outta curiosity, what does a complete phase cycle look like for you? All 3 phases that is

Phase 1- anabolic/ volumization
Test 800
Deca- 500- front load 2 weeks at 1000 mg
EQ- 600
Dbol- I used tbol instead. 30 mg
Slin 40 iu
Mk677- 25
Hgh 4iu

Phase 2- estrogenic/ androgenic
Test- 1200
Deca- 400
Tren 150
Ment 50 daily
Anadrol- PWO leg day only
Hgh 4 iu
Slin 40 iu
MK677 25

Phase 3- anabolic- bye bye libido
Test 250
Mast 500
LGD 40 daily
Superdrol 20. 1st 1/2
Winnie 25 second 1/2
Slin 10 iu - cortisol reduction only
IGF- 50 100 daily
Clen 20 dail


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[Wannabhuge14]

Phase 1- anabolic/ volumization
Test 800
Deca- 500- front load 2 weeks at 1000 mg
EQ- 600
Dbol- I used tbol instead. 30 mg
Slin 40 iu
Mk677- 25
Hgh 4iu

Phase 2- estrogenic/ androgenic
Test- 1200
Deca- 400
Tren 150
Ment 50 daily
Anadrol- PWO leg day only
Hgh 4 iu
Slin 40 iu
MK677 25

Phase 3- anabolic- bye bye libido
Test 250
Mast 500
LGD 40 daily
Superdrol 20. 1st 1/2
Winnie 25 second 1/2
Slin 10 iu - cortisol reduction only
IGF- 50 100 daily
Clen 20 dail


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Looks very similar to what I did this run. I almost bought some ment but didn't bevsuse its pretty expensive. Are the results worth the cost in your opinion?

[charger69]

Looks very similar to what I did this run. I almost bought some ment but didn't bevsuse its pretty expensive. Are the results worth the cost in your opinion?

I would say yes, however it could be just from the elevated estrogen. You would be an excellent judge on it since you did a phase without it. The first time I used it was for a very similar cycle. I had numerous variables.
I originally was to go to 6 iu of HGH but I can’t handle that much.


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[Wannabhuge14]

I would say yes, however it could be just from the elevated estrogen. You would be an excellent judge on it since you did a phase without it. The first time I used it was for a very similar cycle. I had numerous variables.
I originally was to go to 6 iu of HGH but I can’t handle that much.


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I only do 2-3 ius because I just can't justify the cost. I do use 25mg of mk677 from Mike Arnold supps and I feel that fills the gap pretty well. It's expensive too though lol. I may just bite the bullet and buy enough ment just for a single run next time.

[charger69]

I only do 2-3 ius because I just can't justify the cost. I do use 25mg of mk677 from Mike Arnold supps and I feel that fills the gap pretty well. It's expensive too though lol. I may just bite the bullet and buy enough ment just for a single run next time.

Truthfully, I would probably drop the HGH if it is based on cost.


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[fit_deskjocky]

Noticed you stopped the GH in the 3rd phase but added IGF. Will you add the GH back during your cruise for tissue/muscle preservation?