New to TRT (United Kingdom)

[BigGuns89]

Hi!

New to TRT...

I am at the stage where I have done two blood tests (1 finger & 1 vein) had a few initial calls (not doctor) about the process and results etc., and I now have my first doctors consultation first thing in the morning with a view to starting therapy within the next week.

Treatment is going to be TRT (injected) plus HCG at 1500iu per week.

Excited and apprehensive but definitly more excited!

I just thought I would reach out to this group to see if anyone has any advice or would simply like to know more about my journey. I'll post some updates over the coming weeks / months of how things are going.

I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on blast and cruise - pros / cons / protocols etc.

I'm also interested to know what people in the UK are paying and what company they are going through as the NHS does not help with TRT at all here so private is the only way.

The company I have gone through seem to really know alot about the correct protocol and have been very helpful. To be honest I haven't really seen any other companies doing what they do.

Costwise I have paid about: £55 for finger bloods, £155 for full bloods (plus cost of having blood drawn), and £199 for doctor consultation. They have not really told me what the ongoing costs will be, which is concerning me. I will need a few blood tests in year 1 and then annual blood tests going forward. I know how much I can get black market gear for but I'm expecting a bit of a shock when I find out my TRT and HCG monthy cost

It would be good to hear peoples experience with fertility on TRT with HCG - improvement / deterioration / stay same.

All the best!

Mike

[BigGuns89]

Bump!

[BigGuns89]

Just had a good consultation with the Dr and he has prescribed me 125mg of Sustanon every 5 days and 1500iu HCG 3 times per week.

[Test Monsterone]

Agree that HCG is too high. Your fertility will likely not remain. I have done HCG since starting and I haven’t gotten my girlfriend pregnant yet… not a very scientific study, but worth noting. You need FSH and LH to maintain fertility, and HCG only mimics LH.

HMG mimics FSH, but it’s a lot less common and more expensive from what I’ve seen.

[BigGuns89]

Hi Cylon,

I was hoping you'd reply as I've read alot of your posts / comments.

Thats right the sus is 125 e5d so about 175 per week.

The HCG is 1,500IU over 3 shots so 500IU each shot, three times a week.

Im really looking forward to gettign started, I understand the test should be around 100 to 200 so hoping to get some good results.

I cant praise the company enough for playing ball and understanding how TRT works. I just hope the HCG keeps me going enough to try for IVF.

What are your thoughts on blast / cruise? I was thinking of a couple of 12 week cycles either side of the TRT...

Thanks!

[BigGuns89]

Hi Monsterone,

Thanks for your reply.

Sorry thats my typo; its 1,500iu a week (three 500iu shots).

tbh i'm not expecting a natural pregnancy but I cant express enough how much I hope it doesn't screw our IVF plan...

What's your thoughts on blast / cruise?

thanks!

[Test Monsterone]

Hi Monsterone,

Thanks for your reply.

Sorry thats my typo; its 1,500iu a week (three 500iu shots).

tbh i'm not expecting a natural pregnancy but I cant express enough how much I hope it doesn't screw our IVF plan...

What's your thoughts on blast / cruise?

thanks!

Oh ok, 1,500iu/week sounds about right.

I started TRT in August of 2018, and I've ran about 5-6 cycles since then. I don't know what your goals are and if you lifted and reached your genetic potential before this. You will certainly benefit from an increase in testosterone as far as your recovery is concerned. If you were very deficient, you will notice a loss in belly fat and an increase in musculature over the next couple of years. If you were not near your genetic potential before starting, a few cycles may help get you there faster than just doing TRT doses. The thing is, you will always go back down to where you were on TRT once you stop a cycle (if you were near your genetic limit). If not, you will keep a little bit of that muscle each time you cycle, until you reach that threshold. From then on, cycling is just a temporary increase in muscle and vascularity (along with the negative side effects).

Right now, for me, I don't care to put on any more muscle. On TRT I look like what I did in my mid 20's when I was on nothing but protein shakes and some creatine. Going forward, I don't see myself doing any large cycles. I, too, was excited and curious about what steroids could do for me. I hoped that even when I got off a cycle, the TRT would keep me near the same size as when I was on - it didn't. If you want to fly like a rocket, you need rocket fuel... regular gasoline won't work. But... I value my health, and I feel so much healthier on a moderate TRT dose of 125 mg/week. At 175 mg, my blood was on the thicker side (RBCs, hematocrit, hemoglobin...), which is not at all healthy. Some can handle it, it's an individual thing. That is why you will need more bloodwork the first year, because doctors want to see what happens to your blood with various doses.

More is not better. I know you want to start cycling, but the best idea would be to get in the routine of injecting, doing bloodwork, learning how it works. Then, after you know what TRT doses work for you, run a cycle and see how you respond. I didn't do it that way, but I also didn't go through a doctor. I ran my own bloodwork and came to my own conclusions. My friend who started around the same time as me needs to go through a doctor because his idea of TRT is 200 mg test + 300 mg masterone/primo. A doctor will keep you within the healthy range, if they're a good doctor (not some sham TRT clinic), if you cannot take the responsibility.

[BigGuns89]

Oh sorry, I misread the HCG dosage. 1500iu per week is still a bit on the high side but much more manageable. 175mg test IS still a little high for starting TRT.... Well, OK let me elaborate just a bit. In the US, family doctors will typically start you around 100mg per week, if you can find one that will even prescribe it. TRT Clinics, which it feels like you are working with, seem to start at upwards of 200mg per week.

All that said, I would personally feel much better about this protocol to start with. Maybe you will need a small dose of AI with this protocol, but maybe not. Sounds like the clinic will pull bloodwork regularly so that shouldn't be a concern.

Once you are on the needle, blast and cruise is inevitable for most people. In fact, some clinics in the US will prescribe other compounds, like var, maybe yours will, too.

Your experience with this clinic should give men in the UK something to look at. I gather TRT is harder to come by there.

Yeah I know what you mean... it's very difficult to find a Dr that will prescribe you an optimal solution. I do feel very lucky to have found one, especially here in the UK where its near impossible to get TRT let alone a solution thats any good for you. Most are precribed yo yo therapy with gel or one injection a month.

The Dr did say they will monitor estrogen. Mine was quite low on the bloods but I have to do bloods every three months for first year then its once a year (when i'll probably start blasting and cruising).

Would be great if they prescribed some tren lmao! jokes aside I didnt realise you could get anavar on prescription!

TRT sure is hard to access. That said, the Dr here uses the US model as its more forgiving compared with the UK testosterone thresholds. I probably wouldn't be eligible on the NHS - not that I would want to use their protocol.

Thanks for your time

[BigGuns89]

Oh ok, 1,500iu/week sounds about right.

I started TRT in August of 2018, and I've ran about 5-6 cycles since then. I don't know what your goals are and if you lifted and reached your genetic potential before this. You will certainly benefit from an increase in testosterone as far as your recovery is concerned. If you were very deficient, you will notice a loss in belly fat and an increase in musculature over the next couple of years. If you were not near your genetic potential before starting, a few cycles may help get you there faster than just doing TRT doses. The thing is, you will always go back down to where you were on TRT once you stop a cycle (if you were near your genetic limit). If not, you will keep a little bit of that muscle each time you cycle, until you reach that threshold. From then on, cycling is just a temporary increase in muscle and vascularity (along with the negative side effects).

Right now, for me, I don't care to put on any more muscle. On TRT I look like what I did in my mid 20's when I was on nothing but protein shakes and some creatine. Going forward, I don't see myself doing any large cycles. I, too, was excited and curious about what steroids could do for me. I hoped that even when I got off a cycle, the TRT would keep me near the same size as when I was on - it didn't. If you want to fly like a rocket, you need rocket fuel... regular gasoline won't work. But... I value my health, and I feel so much healthier on a moderate TRT dose of 125 mg/week. At 175 mg, my blood was on the thicker side (RBCs, hematocrit, hemoglobin...), which is not at all healthy. Some can handle it, it's an individual thing. That is why you will need more bloodwork the first year, because doctors want to see what happens to your blood with various doses.

More is not better. I know you want to start cycling, but the best idea would be to get in the routine of injecting, doing bloodwork, learning how it works. Then, after you know what TRT doses work for you, run a cycle and see how you respond. I didn't do it that way, but I also didn't go through a doctor. I ran my own bloodwork and came to my own conclusions. My friend who started around the same time as me needs to go through a doctor because his idea of TRT is 200 mg test + 300 mg masterone/primo. A doctor will keep you within the healthy range, if they're a good doctor (not some sham TRT clinic), if you cannot take the responsibility.

Good to hear things are going well with your TRT and lifestyle. I'm 32 and have been into weights since I was about 18. At times I've been militant with my training and at other times not so much but of late this is only down to running my business and being too busy. Lame excuse I know but I've always felt pretty shitty when not on a cycle and I guess now I know why - I really am so excited to start TRT and feel alive again. So yeah ive done cycles in the past but ive always done PCT. I do believe this is an underlying issue rather than caused by the juice. I've been off gear for at least 5 years. I'm not in the best of shape right now but as of 01/10 I am drawing a line in the sand and committing to gym and diet above all else. The begining of this year and most of last year was probably my best in terms of training so im looking forward to picking the weights back up again.

I get what youre saying about always coming back down to the TRT level post cycles, just like coming off gear and back to natural is a bitch. At least ill still be in an optimal range. I'm not at my genetic peak in terms of muscle so i can definitly add some lean tissue. That said I'm not small at 17 stone and 6 foot 1 - im just not too lean, but also not terribly fat either! I think id like to get to 200 to 225 pounds lean and if im being honest 215 pounds is probably my sweet spot and achievable. Ive defo felt my muscles get mushy these last 3 months LOL - I need a good pump!

I like your points about health, which is the main reason behind all this. the Dr will monitor the bloods so if 175 is too much im sure he'll drop me down a bit - i hope not!

I had considered doing TRT on my own tbh but I am glad I went down this road, it just feels correct if you know what I mean. Its only really wanting IVF which stopped me cycling again so TRT with HCG is the compromise.

Thanks for your reply!

[almostgone]

Hi Cylon,

I was hoping you'd reply as I've read alot of your posts / comments.

Thats right the sus is 125 e5d so about 175 per week.

The HCG is 1,500IU over 3 shots so 500IU each shot, three times a week.

Im really looking forward to gettign started, I understand the test should be around 100 to 200 so hoping to get some good results.

I cant praise the company enough for playing ball and understanding how TRT works. I just hope the HCG keeps me going enough to try for IVF.

What are your thoughts on blast / cruise? I was thinking of a couple of 12 week cycles either side of the TRT...

Thanks!

Make sure you definitely know your physician's plans/schedule for labs. You don't want to be blasting and get called in for labwork.

[BigGuns89]

Make sure you definitely know your physician's plans/schedule for labs. You don't want to be blasting and get called in for labwork.

Thanks, AlmostGone.

Every three months bloods for first 12 months then its every 12 months going forward. I'm thinking of settling into this over the next year or so and then doing a blast or two a year pre bloods.

Thats a good point though... When would be the best time to go back down to TRT levels. I understand the half lifes etc. but there must be a need to reduce a bit early for other blood markers to stabilise. Say it would take 4 weeks to get back to TRT test levels in the blood would 8 weeks be a better time frame to ensure everything is stable (to double to timeframe)? Is there a standard protocol for this?

[kelkel]

Way to much HCG. 250 IU's 2-3 times per week is sufficient. Doc may write you that much but you don't have to use that much. Stock it up. Same with your test.

[almostgone]

Thanks, AlmostGone.

Every three months bloods for first 12 months then its every 12 months going forward. I'm thinking of settling into this over the next year or so and then doing a blast or two a year pre bloods.

Thats a good point though... When would be the best time to go back down to TRT levels. I understand the half lifes etc. but there must be a need to reduce a bit early for other blood markers to stabilise. Say it would take 4 weeks to get back to TRT test levels in the blood would 8 weeks be a better time frame to ensure everything is stable (to double to timeframe)? Is there a standard protocol for this?

I like to allow at least 8 weeks prior to labs and pull my own labs 4 weeks prior to the Dr. ordered labs.

If you're going to run long blasts, I would pull labs mid- blast to see where you're at.

[BigGuns89]

Way to much HCG. 250 IU's 2-3 times per week is sufficient. Doc may write you that much but you don't have to use that much. Stock it up. Same with your test.

Thank you.

I feel great on 1ml sustanon but im going to be prescribed about 0.5 to 0.8 ml.

The 500iu mon / wed / fri is because me and my wife want a baby - IVF probably.

[BigGuns89]

I like to allow at least 8 weeks prior to labs and pull my own labs 4 weeks prior to the Dr. ordered labs.

If you're going to run long blasts, I would pull labs mid- blast to see where you're at.

Interesting...

I may have fuc*ed up!

Prescribed 0.5ml sust 250 with a view to increase between 0.5 to 0.8ml after first bloods on 28/10/2021.

I've been taking 1ml (and loving life) but my plan was to reduce to 0.5ml from my next shot tomorrow.

1ml taken on 03/10/2021, drop to 0.5ml on 08/10/2021, 0.5ml 13/10/2021, 0.5ml 18/10/2021, 0.5ml 23/10/2021, blood test before next test shot 28/10/2021.

I thought 21 ish days would be enough for bloods to get down to 0.5ml levels...???

[almostgone]

Interesting...

I may have fuc*ed up!

Prescribed 0.5ml sust 250 with a view to increase between 0.5 to 0.8ml after first bloods on 28/10/2021.

I've been taking 1ml (and loving life) but my plan was to reduce to 0.5ml from my next shot tomorrow.

1ml taken on 03/10/2021, drop to 0.5ml on 08/10/2021, 0.5ml 13/10/2021, 0.5ml 18/10/2021, 0.5ml 23/10/2021, blood test before next test shot 28/10/2021.

I thought 21 ish days would be enough for bloods to get down to 0.5ml levels...???

You may be fine, but I always like to allow plenty of time. Especially if I need to allow times for not just T levels, but other panels to drop to normal range. All depends on how much over your prescribed dosage you were injecting and for how long you ran the higher dosage.

[BigGuns89]

You may be fine, but I always like to allow plenty of time. Especially if I need to allow times for not just T levels, but other panels to drop to normal range. All depends on how much over your prescribed dosage you were injecting and for how long you ran the higher dosage.

That makes sense. I'm only slightly over prescribed level so hopefully all will be well for my first bloods. Then its 6 months bloods and then every 12 so wil get easier.

I am hoping to get a slight increase on the prescription rather than stay the same or drop the dose. I think they base this on free testosterone. I might just skip my shot altogether on 18/10/2021 to be safe, although that might make it worse. I hate playing a guessing game LOL!

Anyway thanks for all your help and advice.

Mike

[kelkel]

Thank you.

I feel great on 1ml sustanon but im going to be prescribed about 0.5 to 0.8 ml.

The 500iu mon / wed / fri is because me and my wife want a baby - IVF probably.

Read this then.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378070/

[BigGuns89]

You can always play the "dur, did I do it wrong" card. Like, oh damn was I injecting too much? OMG, am I gonna die?!?! The doc should get a good chuckle and assume you are just new and screwed up by accident.

Trust me, reddit is full and man, I cannot stress "full" enough, of people who report doing worse than a simple over injection. The doc has likely seen it all.

haha I did come clean with my case manager and she was fine about it. Bloods came back all good as i dropped a good 4 + weeks before hand. I'm allowed 0.8 so taking the full ML probably won't be a big issue now I imagine. Hope you're well, Cylon.

[BigGuns89]

Read this then.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378070/

Hi KelKel,

A very good read, in fact i'm sure i've read it before. Certainly gives some peace of mind. Also seems that 250iu would be sufficient. As weird as it is to say out loud by nuts definitly feel "fuller" even on the treatment. I guess time will tell.

many thanks