I’m back you sons of bastards

[Marsoc]

Howdy, it’s been years since I’ve been on here but either way I’m back at it. Haven’t had time to train since starting a Masonry and tree service business and I never got a waiver to do the SAFS program so the tree and masonry work stimulate my brain with communicating, moving and executing things for now but I’ve let myself go in regards to healthy diet and weight training.. aside from lifting logs and bricks all day.

Anyways I Came across an extra 2-4 months supply of 5.8mg omnitrope left over from a prescription of a friend. I’m trying to stretch this out as much as possible and my math is a bit rusty. These are the amounts

“ OMNITROPETM 5.8 mg is dispensed in a vial containing 5.8 mg of somatropin (approximately
17.4 IU), glycine (27.6 mg), disodium hydrogen phosphate heptahydrate (2.09 mg), and sodium
dihydrogen phosphate dihydrate (0.56 mg). The product is supplied with a vial containing 1.14
mL diluent (Bacteriostatic Water for Injection containing 1.5% benzyl alcohol as a preservative).
After reconstitution of the lyophilized powder, the solution has a concentration of 5 mg/mL
(approx. 15 IU/mL).”

I’m wondering how much I get if I take 2iu a night on my days off and 4iu on the days I train large muscle groups or whatever for an extra benefit if any. I know it’s not allot but if I do 2iu a day I can stretch the cycle out for about 4 months. Another questions is when I go to sleep I usually have my casein protein and such plus I’ll wake up middle of the night to have a shake again. If I’m taking the hgh won’t the insulin spike knock out the growth hormone I’m using….. so I wouldn’t want to eat roughly 2 hours prior to taking the hgh before bed.. then I’m left thinking my muscles are starving all night unless the hgh shot outweighs any food I would consume. So many questions. Besides that I’ve been eating chicken like a fox in a hen house. 6oz every 3-4 hours plus sweet potato’s and such. Eating very clean in my opinion.

[almostgone]

Good to see you back, man! Personally, I'd stretch it as long as I could on 2 iu/day.

[Marsoc]

Hey what’s up man!! I Figured. So even with the amounts given and shown above. Draw out only 2 little lines worth and that’s it. Then I’m wondering about eating in the middle of the night or if that will cancel out the hgh I’ll take before bed. So many questions and that’s why I appreciate you all.

[SampsonandDelilah]

What’s the ultimate goal? I wouldn’t worry about my blood sugars as much with regards to eating in the middle of the night.

(Edit)

Reread your post - yes I would avoid eating two hours before administration but wouldn’t obsess at all about eating during the night…especially if you’re goal is fat loss. HGH can burn into the adipose tissue, which is why I’m curious as to your goal. I’m assuming leaning up? Just eat after you wake up, nothing wrong with that long of a fast for fat loss especially with HGH

Could also augment with 12.5 mgs of MK677 along with it…just have to be cognizant of the hunger that comes with the gherlin receptor. Keep eating clean and you’ll be fine.

Could also add a TRT dose of test to hold your LBM if it worries you that much

[Marsoc]

Yeah lots of good questions, I guess I got excited that I’m finally back in the forum. Long story short I was and remain all about efficiency and figure looks would come with the effort and going beyond failure and pushing non stop. I’m a bigger guy and felt best when I was around 220 running up hillsides with 100lbs of sand in my backpack for example and didn’t care about being lean. I was conditioning for a special forces program so I wasn’t worried about aesthetics but either way I’m more interested in gaining my muscle mass & strength back at this point especially during the winter months, trying to bulk up like a grizzly bear then I’ll lean down as needed, not concerned about being ripped up. I’ve always been all natural and this is the first attempt at anything being used other then Moms Polish cooking. Then more questions arise such as… would the 2iu I take knock out my natural production or would it just be stacked on top of it. This is all I got for now so I’m just trying to couple this with food at right times for as long as I can to gain the most from it. Trt in the future perhaps and I guess since I can gain more easy that this GH will help keep me lean while I try to gain muscle as well.

[Marsoc]

And now I’m getting confused on what is a proper dose for my 2iu allowance each day. I have BD brand* u-100, 30 unit syringes

“ OMNITROPETM 5.8 mg is dispensed in a vial containing 5.8 mg of somatropin (approximately
17.4 IU), glycine (27.6 mg), disodium hydrogen phosphate heptahydrate (2.09 mg), and sodium
dihydrogen phosphate dihydrate (0.56 mg). The product is supplied with a vial containing 1.14
mL diluent (Bacteriostatic Water for Injection containing 1.5% benzyl alcohol as a preservative).
After reconstitution of the lyophilized powder, the solution has a concentration of 5 mg/mL
(approx. 15 IU/mL).”

Based on that info how much am I getting with each unit? And is each hash mark 1 unit. It’s marked in increments of 5 up to 30 with the small unlabeled hash marks in between of course . I sound like a rookie …Well cuz I am and that’s why I’m asking. Thanks in advance

[almostgone]

If there's 15 iu/ml after reconstitution, draw to .1 to get 1.5 iu. If your syringe is only graduated in iu and is a 100iu/1cc syringe draw to 10
To get 2iu, draw to roughly the third small line past the 10 units or .1ml.

[almostgone]

Don't let the units on the syringe throw you. That is strictly for insulin.

Just break it down to simple math. If the instructions say you get 15iu per 1ml of volume, how much would 1/10 of that volume give you? Answer= 1.5 iu.
So, look at the total number of graduations in the entire syringe. If it's a 100iu/1cc syringe, then 1/10 of 100iu is 10iu.

Does that help you?

[Marsoc]

Kinda, I just want to be as accurate as possible but Here’s what I’m working with. What protocol can be most beneficial and that keeps me using this the longest. Keep in mind I’m all about building and not so worried about being super lean. I have 6 new vials of the 5.8mg GH plus one vial I’ve been drawing from that’s not pictured. What line would I draw to!!!!!! Thanks in advance my friends

[almostgone]

Ok, going by the insert info you posted, each ml contains ~15iu.
The syringes you have hold .3 mL
(.3mL)(15iu/mL) = 4.5 iu

If you draw to 30iu on that syringe you would get 4.5 iu. So, if you draw to 15iu on that syringe, that would give you 2.25iu.


If you switch to a different syringe from what you have now, let's look at what you have. We may need to recalculate.


Somewhere around 2iu is what seems to be a good place for me without lots of hand numbness, but I definitely feel I heal and recover better.

Since you don't really have a lot to make a full blown run, I'd run 2.25 iu/ day 5 days on and 2 days off so you can stretch it.

If you have the cash check your IGF-1 levels before you start and then do it again in a week.

On 1.8 iu of Serostim with a 5 on/2 off schedule and checking on an off "day", my IGF-1 levels are usually 355-390 and for my age the upper reference range is around 247 depending on the lab.

I will say that I take a two month break every 6 months or so just because I don't like chronically elevated IGF-1 levels.

Another option you may want to look into is MK-677. I've not really messed with it much, but some of the other guys have. It might be a good one to follow-up with after get low on Omnitrope.

Hope that helps!

[Marsoc]

Thanks, so I’ll be filling these syringes up to this mark for 2iu?

I thought I had more then I did but oh well.

[almostgone]

Before you get carried away, can you confirm that your syringe goes up to 30iu and hold .3mL. The bag is torn and I want to make sure we're on the same page.

[almostgone]

If your syringes hold .3mL, you will fill it up halfway to get 2.25iu.

15iu/mL
.3mL syringes
A full syringe will give you 4.5iu
A half full syringe will give you 2.25 iu

[Cylon357]

Thanks, so I’ll be filling these syringes up to this mark for 2iu?

I thought I had more then I did but oh well.

To the 10 mark would get you to 1.5iu, using the reconstitution math AG mentioned.

I like those BD Veo syringes BTW. 6mm and 31g is barely noticeable. I use them for both HGH and peptides.

Oh and since I haven't said it yet, welcome back!

[Marsoc]

This is what I got and just to not I’ve been filling it to the little tiny line assuming that was 2iu. Exactly why I’m trying to figure this out

[Cylon357]

This is what I got and just to not I’ve been filling it to the little tiny line assuming that was 2iu. Exactly why I’m trying to figure this out

OK gotcha. Drawing to that mark will be .3 iu. That is, 3/10ths of an IU.

A couple of things real quick. There are U-100 insulin syringes and U-40 syringes. I only use U-100. Will U-40s work? Probably, but the math there makes my head hurt, so I stay away. Next, the dilutent they provided... put that in your stash and get some bacteriostatic water (aka "bacstat"). Bacstat is what you want to use and will help make the math simple.


What I like to do is reconstitute with a 10 units of bacstat to 1 unit HGH ratio. That keeps the math easy when it comes time to draw.

Example: I use 10iu HGH vials. I put 1 full ml (a full 100iu U-100 insulin pin) of bacstat in the vial. This way, 1iu of HGH = 10 units on the syringe. That's any U-100 insulin syringe.

Example 2: You have 5.8MG vials. AG's math says that 5.8mg equals roughly 15iu. OK, cool, now we have something to work with. Get your bottle of bacteriostatic water and use that for reconstitution. I would use 1.5ml of bacstat for that amount of HGH. This way, you can draw to the 10 mark on the syringe and know that is one unit, 15 mark is 1.5, 20 is 2iu, etc.

[wango]

OK gotcha. Drawing to that mark will be .3 iu. That is, 3/10ths of an IU.

A couple of things real quick. There are U-100 insulin syringes and U-40 syringes. I only use U-100. Will U-40s work? Probably, but the math there makes my head hurt, so I stay away. Next, the dilutent they provided... put that in your stash and get some bacteriostatic water (aka "bacstat"). Bacstat is what you want to use and will help make the math simple.


What I like to do is reconstitute with a 10 units of bacstat to 1 unit HGH ratio. That keeps the math easy when it comes time to draw.

Example: I use 10iu HGH vials. I put 1 full ml (a full 100iu U-100 insulin pin) of bacstat in the vial. This way, 1iu of HGH = 10 units on the syringe. That's any U-100 insulin syringe.

Example 2: You have 5.8MG vials. AG's math says that 5.8mg equals roughly 15iu. OK, cool, now we have something to work with. Get your bottle of bacteriostatic water and use that for reconstitution. I would use 1.5ml of bacstat for that amount of HGH. This way, you can draw to the 10 mark on the syringe and know that is one unit, 15 mark is 1.5, 20 is 2iu, etc.

Wait a sec, are you GH?

[Cylon357]

Wait a sec, are you GH?

No no, I USE HGH. And even though U-40s make my head hurt, I'm kind of an odd duck in that I actually like math.

[almostgone]

OK gotcha. Drawing to that mark will be .3 iu. That is, 3/10ths of an IU.

A couple of things real quick. There are U-100 insulin syringes and U-40 syringes. I only use U-100. Will U-40s work? Probably, but the math there makes my head hurt, so I stay away. Next, the dilutent they provided... put that in your stash and get some bacteriostatic water (aka "bacstat"). Bacstat is what you want to use and will help make the math simple.


What I like to do is reconstitute with a 10 units of bacstat to 1 unit HGH ratio. That keeps the math easy when it comes time to draw.

Example: I use 10iu HGH vials. I put 1 full ml (a full 100iu U-100 insulin pin) of bacstat in the vial. This way, 1iu of HGH = 10 units on the syringe. That's any U-100 insulin syringe.

Example 2: You have 5.8MG vials. AG's math says that 5.8mg equals roughly 15iu. OK, cool, now we have something to work with. Get your bottle of bacteriostatic water and use that for reconstitution. I would use 1.5ml of bacstat for that amount of HGH. This way, you can draw to the 10 mark on the syringe and know that is one unit, 15 mark is 1.5, 20 is 2iu, etc.

Actually I usually calculate 3.3 iu/mg. The ~ 15iu figure was on the package insert info ( which mentions 17.4 in there somewhere).

I think the insert says his diluent has 1.5% BA, but I also opt for store bought Hospira bacteriostatic water or if unavailable, mix up a batch/filter on my own.

But yes, absolutely, reconstitute with 1 mL!!!! So much easier. Serostim = 18iu vials. A U-100 syringe, draw to .1, and that's 1.8 iu.

[Cylon357]

Actually I usually calculate 3.3 iu/mg. The ~ 15iu figure was on the package insert info ( which mentions 17.4 in there somewhere).

I think the insert says his diluent has 1.5% BA, but I also opt for store bought Hospital bacteriostatic water or if unavailable, mix up a batch/filter on my own.

But yes, absolutely, reconstitute with 1 mL!!!! So much easier. Serostim = 18iu vials. A U-100 syringe, draw to .1, and that's 1.8 iu.

Yeah, I think the 15.66 comes from 5.8mg x 2.7, which is the formula I gather that is most accurate to convert MG to IU for HGH.

All that said, yeah, the simpler the math, the sweeter the juice. Err, something like that anyhow lol

[Marsoc]

Now I’m confused all the hell. My buddy who’s very familiar is telling me to draw to the mark I show which is the 2nd little line

[Cylon357]

Now I’m confused all the hell. My buddy who’s very familiar is telling me to draw to the mark I show which is the 2nd little line

Damn, I'm sorry. I was afraid that might happen. It definitely can be confusing, especially with odd numbers like 1.14 ml. But that's OK, lets see if we can get there.

Two quick things.

First, your buddy is wrong if he is telling you to draw to the 2 mark for 2iu of HGH. That would be correct if you had 100iu HGH per ml, but you only have 15iu HGH per ml.

Second, I would say the math on the label is to be trusted. Just use the solution that came with it, that gives you a 15iu per ml solution. There will be about 17.4iu total in the vial.

Draw to between the 13 and 14 mark for 2iu. You should get 8+ doses at that amount, with the 9th dose only being about 1.4iu.


It is easy to confuse IUs of HGH with IU markings on the syringe. They are not the same thing in this case.

[almostgone]

Now I’m confused all the hell. My buddy who’s very familiar is telling me to draw to the mark I show which is the 2nd little line

That would be because the patient was most likely prescribed a different dosage.

I'm comfortable with the figures that have been suggested. Lord knows I've reconstituted enough of it in the last 15+ years.

[almostgone]

Damn, I'm sorry. I was afraid that might happen. It definitely can be confusing, especially with odd numbers like 1.14 ml. But that's OK, lets see if we can get there.

Two quick things.

First, your buddy is wrong if he is telling you to draw to the 2 mark for 2iu of HGH. That would be correct if you had 100iu HGH per ml, but you only have 15iu HGH per ml.

Second, I would say the math on the label is to be trusted. Just use the solution that came with it, that gives you a 15iu per ml solution. There will be about 17.4iu total in the vial.

Draw to between the 13 and 14 mark for 2iu. You should get 8+ doses at that amount, with the 9th dose only being about 1.4iu.


It is easy to confuse IUs of HGH with IU markings on the syringe. They are not the same thing in this case.

Exactly as posted in blue above.

[almostgone]

Now I’m confused all the hell. My buddy who’s very familiar is telling me to draw to the mark I show which is the 2nd little line

Here is how I can prove his math is faulty. He says the second little line is .2mL ( as per the prescription).

The bag the syringes came in says that syringes only hold .3 mL.

Now, how can that second little bitty line equal to .2 mL and all of the rest of the syringe equal to the remaining .1mL? Remember the whole syringe only holds .3mL.

[Marsoc]

No the person that’s telling me to draw to the mark I show is a personal trainer in the neighborhood that cycles often. I obtained the script from someone else

[almostgone]

No the person that’s telling me to draw to the mark I show is a personal trainer in the neighborhood that cycles often. I obtained the script from someone else

Sorry, but he is incorrect.

[almostgone]

Let's do this again.

[Marsoc]

I just wanna be sure, I was thinking it would last a long time drawing to that little mark I showed. So I’ve been taking basically nothing then for the past week. I guess I can just go to the local cvs and ask one of the nurses there lol and tell them my math is off and I can’t get ahold of my doctor lol.

[almostgone]

The information the manufacturer provided you plainly says if you use their bacteriostatic water to reconstitute, it will give you ~ 15ii/mL.

....After reconstitution of the lyophilized powder, the solution has a concentration of 5 mg/mL
(approx. 15 IU/mL).”...

So, you reconstitute your GH and grab a syringe. Your syringe holds .3ml.

So if you filled the syringe all of the way up, it would be .3 x 15 iu which would equal 4.5iu. That mean a full .3ml holds 4.5iu of GH.

Don't trust me, multiply .3 x 15 with a calculator..

Now do you see why the line you drew on the syringe would be waaay off and the trainer guy is incorrect?

[almostgone]

I just wanna be sure, I was thinking it would last a long time drawing to that little mark I showed. So I’ve been taking basically nothing then for the past week. I guess I can just go to the local cvs and ask one of the nurses there lol and tell them my math is off and I can’t get ahold of my doctor lol.

No man, you got this. You just have to walk through it a few times. I promise if you sit down with a calculator and walk through it, you'll be just fine.

Just remember, the manufacturer says " when you reconstitute with the bacteriostatic water they provided, you will have approximately 15 iu of GH/mL. That's straight from Sandoz, the manufacturer.

So if the whole syringe only hold .3mL, and 1mL of solution contains 15iu, then the syringe can only hold a max of approximately 4.5 iu.

[almostgone]

I just wanna be sure, I was thinking it would last a long time drawing to that little mark I showed. So I’ve been taking basically nothing then for the past week. I guess I can just go to the local cvs and ask one of the nurses there lol and tell them my math is off and I can’t get ahold of my doctor lol.

Yes sir, you've been taking a very, very low dose. All is not lost though. Draw to the halfway point to get 2.25iu, inject it as discussed, and be talking to some of these other guys that run MK677. The two should complement each other nicely and MK677 should be cheaper.

To give you an idea of usage, my Serostim are 18 iu vials I get (10) injections @ 1.8 iu/ injection. So you can see your vials are slightly smaller, so no, unfortunately, they don't last long

I sincerely hope that helps you out!

[Marsoc]

It help guys and I appreciate it, so I’ll draw to the amount y’all mentioned or I can just get 1cc syringes to comfort my aching brain. Takes me a while but I’ll get use to it. Another question is this … does this exogenous shot of hgh stop my natural production at night when I take it or will this all be just added on top of my natural production. And does it literally help me gain more muscle aside from other benefits or does it just help me recover quicker and then I can train more often and that’s where my gains will come from.. ya know ? Either way it’s all I got so F it and I’m going all in either way. Maybe I’ll get some Better feeling joints after this little baby cycle lol

PS: is MK677 over the counter available and what are the precautions I should take. The main reason I haven’t cycled testosterone is due the the post cycle shit and me not wanting to knock out my natural production permanently or feel like shit

[almostgone]

Most study abstracts say exogenous GH will suppress endogenous GH release. The biggest endogenous GH release seem to trend towards midnight to early morning, so some people opt to inject mid day to early afternoon....some people do it just prior to sleep.

I don't really worry about it. Now if I were one of the top level guys running high (10iu+), I might pay more attention to it.

Look into the MK677.

[Marsoc]

Yeah I’m looking into the mk677 but then it comes down to which is a good brand and such. Another question is if I can’t eat when I take the hgh shot then I def can’t take it during the day since the food will stop the effects of the growth won’t it? I’m sure you all are thrilled I’m back in the forum with all my fun questions. And since I did legs about 2 days ago while I was taking that puny dose, will it benefit any growth taking the shot tonight while I’m still a bit sore?

[almostgone]

I'd time it so it is convenient for you. Just a major bodypart lifting session like legs is thought to elevate GH levels.

I usually work in my injection when I first wake up, or in between meals.

Working swing shift screws up my mind so badly, I just roll with where I can fit things in.

Re: muscle soreness. True Nutrition used to carry a glutamine peptide mix back in the mid-2000s, that I swear helped with DOMS and recovery. I never see it anymore. Really hydrate and maybe throw in a lighter intensity session to pump some blood through your legs.

Re: the MK677. I think the name brand that was used was a brand by Mike and I can't recall the last name, but I'm sure the other guys will chime in.

[SampsonandDelilah]

I'd time it so it is convenient for you. Just a major bodypart lifting session like legs is thought to elevate GH levels.

I usually work in my injection when I first wake up, or in between meals.

Working swing shift screws up my mind so badly, I just roll with where I can fit things in.

Re: muscle soreness. True Nutrition used to carry a glutamine peptide mix back in the mid-2000s, that I swear helped with DOMS and recovery. I never see it anymore. Really hydrate and maybe throw in a lighter intensity session to pump some blood through your legs.

Re: the MK677. I think the name brand that was used was a brand by Mike and I can't recall the last name, but I'm sure the other guys will chime in.

Mike Arnold - MA Reseach chems

MK-677 is a secretagogue, similar to Semorelin or Ipramorlin.

These dudes are both spot on with their math by the way.

AG also but the nail on the head about the GH pulses happening at night. Same time you would take the MK, it can make you sleepy and hungry.

25 mgs of MK is said to be close to 2-3 IU’s of HGH. You can run blood work very easily for confirmation, it’s inexpensive as well for the test.

Ideally you won’t suppress your own by going 5 days a week and taking intermittent breaks every 4-6 months…I believe AG suggested that as well

Im sharing my own anecdotes as well as parroting from my TRT doc is who has been in the game long before these doc in a box “mens health” centers. He’s an OG and wicked smart

I’d run it as suggested and augment with the MK (which I believe I already suggested). To stave off the grogginess (potentially) and the hunger, dose the MK at night 5-6 nights a week. I’d also get a blood test now, and take it again in 4 months (or whenever you decide to take a break).

Your personal trainer can add 25’s and 45’s I’m sure, but he’s dead wrong on his math…

Cy and AG are on the mark as usual, another reason why this forum is the best

(MA also has a host of other GH secratgoges but the MK677 is tough to beat and it doesn’t require an injection, just an appetite for cat asshole and a unwavering fearlessness of your mouth tasting like shit for an hour)

[Marsoc]

That’s awesome and funny, hopefully this small amount I have at least makes my Cock a little bigger in the end.

PS: homeboy is NOT MY personal trainer, I’m just saying that he is one and is familiar with all this, I eat personal trainers pre and post workout. He might have not known what size rigs I was using and math was off.

[Cylon357]

Most study abstracts say exogenous GH will suppress endogenous GH release. The biggest endogenous GH release seem to trend towards midnight to early morning, so some people opt to inject mid day to early afternoon....some people do it just prior to sleep.

I don't really worry about it. Now if I were one of the top level guys running high (10iu+), I might pay more attention to it.

Look into the MK677.

This, and the entire first paragraph are why I inject in the morning first thing after waking up. I am prescribed thyroid medicine that I take in the morning anyhow, and already have to wait to eat after taking that, so it seems to work out OK.

That said, I think natural production for those of us more... "mature" folks is like the equivalent of .2 and .6iu per day, so pretty much anything we take over that number is likely a benefit.

In other words, a 1 to 2 iu dose daily MIGHT suppress natural production, but will also be way ahead of natural production anyhow.

[Cylon357]

Mike Arnold - MA Reseach chems

(MA also has a host of other GH secratgoges but the MK677 is tough to beat and it doesn’t require an injection, just an appetite for cat asshole and a unwavering fearlessness of your mouth tasting like shit for an hour)

Man, I remember when SampsonandDelilah first tried MK677. His description of the taste had me rolling!

But, that is the liquid. Every SARM or SARM like liquid I have tried tastes to me like paint thinner.

That said MA's somatizine is a capsule that works well and doesn't have a taste. Spelling might not be quite right but should get you close enough. It is on his supplement site I think, because he mixes just enough other known ingredients like melatonin to be able to say it is a sleep aid, not a research chemical. That's what I suspect anyhow, I don't know that for sure.