Healing from hypogonadism and the use of exogenous testosterone at the same time

[Positiveweight]

So basically things didn't work out as planned (long time coming) and my use of test for awhile without any form of recovery therapy afterwards for years has given me hypogonadism. It's bad. But I knew this going in as the warning is heaved loud and clear all the time.

So I'm doing HCG therapy to restore my hormones as a whole and help give my body a push back to naturalism. Again this is not just for hormones but for hypogonadism.

The protocol I'm choosing to follow is 2000IU of HCG weekly. Obviously EOD E2D E3D is a given. I'm taking low dose clomid a long side with it and starting with letrozole to crush any high estrogen side effects I may be suffering from. I will revert to nolvadex and/or adex after using letrozole temporary.


So it's 2000IU weekly for six months. The study I read which I can link said that there were very positive results in recovery. I know a lot of you are going to suggest lower then 2000IU for some very good reasons. Receptors gaining a high tolerance for HCG being one of them.

For the LH and FSH crash that'll happen after the six months I plan on using enclomiphene for two months after. Possibly do one month off two months on a couple of times to really trigger the body to kickstart itself again.

Here's the other part. It's obvious that I have doomed myself in needing HRT. This HCG protocol is for hypogonadism. I understand that my levels will drop after this therapy but could possibly rebound to baseline or damn close to baseline. Or... Slowly going back to low hormone levels. Ultimately meaning that testosterone use is inevitable.

Let's say this is true. That I'm doomed for HRT regardless after this therapy. Is it OK to use exogenous testosterone @TRT levels while on this HCG protocol. 2000IU is a lot and with clomid as well that alone will obviously put me at a very healthy level of test.

So that brings up the point if TRT levels of test is even necessary. Regardless of the answer or input. My main concern is if TRT will impact the HCG protocol and actually stop the HCG protocol from even being useful.

Lastly some might say that if I'm planning on HRT/TRT anyway that there is no point for this protocol and just use HCG at therapeutic doses with TRT.

I don't know. I said a lot and I'm at work so I gotta dash. Throwing this up there to start the ball rolling for any help or input anyone is willing to offer.

Thank you

[Cylon357]

So basically things didn't work out as planned (long time coming) and my use of test for awhile without any form of recovery therapy afterwards for years has given me hypogonadism. It's bad. But I knew this going in as the warning is heaved loud and clear all the time.

So I'm doing HCG therapy to restore my hormones as a whole and help give my body a push back to naturalism. Again this is not just for hormones but for hypogonadism.

The protocol I'm choosing to follow is 2000IU of HCG weekly. Obviously EOD E2D E3D is a given. I'm taking low dose clomid a long side with it and starting with letrozole to crush any high estrogen side effects I may be suffering from. I will revert to nolvadex and/or adex after using letrozole temporary.


So it's 2000IU weekly for six months. The study I read which I can link said that there were very positive results in recovery. I know a lot of you are going to suggest lower then 2000IU for some very good reasons. Receptors gaining a high tolerance for HCG being one of them.

For the LH and FSH crash that'll happen after the six months I plan on using enclomiphene for two months after. Possibly do one month off two months on a couple of times to really trigger the body to kickstart itself again.

Here's the other part. It's obvious that I have doomed myself in needing HRT. This HCG protocol is for hypogonadism. I understand that my levels will drop after this therapy but could possibly rebound to baseline or damn close to baseline. Or... Slowly going back to low hormone levels. Ultimately meaning that testosterone use is inevitable.

Let's say this is true. That I'm doomed for HRT regardless after this therapy. Is it OK to use exogenous testosterone @TRT levels while on this HCG protocol. 2000IU is a lot and with clomid as well that alone will obviously put me at a very healthy level of test.

So that brings up the point if TRT levels of test is even necessary. Regardless of the answer or input. My main concern is if TRT will impact the HCG protocol and actually stop the HCG protocol from even being useful.

Lastly some might say that if I'm planning on HRT/TRT anyway that there is no point for this protocol and just use HCG at therapeutic doses with TRT.

I don't know. I said a lot and I'm at work so I gotta dash. Throwing this up there to start the ball rolling for any help or input anyone is willing to offer.

Thank you

Man, you are all over the place. What is it you want to accomplish?

HCG is "eventually suppressive" and I don't think 6 months of HCG monotherapy is a good idea. I am unversed on "power pct" protocols, though, so maybe that is exactly what they say to do.

You mention both clomid and enclomiphene. Dump the clomid and get enclomiphene, period, since you apparently have access to both.

It is a very bad idea to take test during your HCG use if you plan on coming off. It is another very bad idea to use HCG solo for 6 months if you plan on going on TRT after you are done.

If you just want to return to baseline, I might try 2 months of HCG at the doses you mention. Well, start at 2000iu a week, and use a small dose of enclomiphene with it. What I would say do is over that 2 months, taper your HCG and ramp up your enclomiphene, so that at the end of the 2 months, you are done with hcg and continue the enclomiphene for another 4 to 6 weeks at something like 12.5mg per day.

Alternately, if you are destined for the needle and don't have some compelling reason not to start injections now, just start injections and enjoy life.

[956Vette]

Da fuk are you doing with letro? What's your age, trying for children? Might be overestimating the efficacy of ancillaries by a wide margin.

Rest assured you're going to stay hypogonadal with your outlined protocol. Follow Vigorous Steve as his perspective/current experiment may offer value. GL.

[Cuz]

So basically things didn't work out as planned (long time coming) and my use of test for awhile without any form of recovery therapy afterwards for years has given me hypogonadism. It's bad. But I knew this going in as the warning is heaved loud and clear all the time.

So I'm doing HCG therapy to restore my hormones as a whole and help give my body a push back to naturalism. Again this is not just for hormones but for hypogonadism.

The protocol I'm choosing to follow is 2000IU of HCG weekly. Obviously EOD E2D E3D is a given. I'm taking low dose clomid a long side with it and starting with letrozole to crush any high estrogen side effects I may be suffering from. I will revert to nolvadex and/or adex after using letrozole temporary.


So it's 2000IU weekly for six months. The study I read which I can link said that there were very positive results in recovery. I know a lot of you are going to suggest lower then 2000IU for some very good reasons. Receptors gaining a high tolerance for HCG being one of them.

For the LH and FSH crash that'll happen after the six months I plan on using enclomiphene for two months after. Possibly do one month off two months on a couple of times to really trigger the body to kickstart itself again.

Here's the other part. It's obvious that I have doomed myself in needing HRT. This HCG protocol is for hypogonadism. I understand that my levels will drop after this therapy but could possibly rebound to baseline or damn close to baseline. Or... Slowly going back to low hormone levels. Ultimately meaning that testosterone use is inevitable.

Let's say this is true. That I'm doomed for HRT regardless after this therapy. Is it OK to use exogenous testosterone @TRT levels while on this HCG protocol. 2000IU is a lot and with clomid as well that alone will obviously put me at a very healthy level of test.

So that brings up the point if TRT levels of test is even necessary. Regardless of the answer or input. My main concern is if TRT will impact the HCG protocol and actually stop the HCG protocol from even being useful.

Lastly some might say that if I'm planning on HRT/TRT anyway that there is no point for this protocol and just use HCG at therapeutic doses with TRT.

I don't know. I said a lot and I'm at work so I gotta dash. Throwing this up there to start the ball rolling for any help or input anyone is willing to offer.

Thank you

I dont think you have the slightest clue of what you are doing by reading this with no insult intended. Id suggest researching ALOT more. Why are you using Letro, do you have bloodwork to provide grounds for using such an extreme measure? Your body actually needs estrogen to function and if you’re off exogenous testosterone then you have no reason for a rising of it.

[Positiveweight]

YES I know that estrogen is actually needed in men... That estrogen actually helps build muscle and keep us stable on a chemical level not emotional......

I idiotically developed gyno before I knew what was up. The classic Dbol mistake long ago. Even when I hit sub 10% body fat while using 600mg Test E a week with 800mg of equipoise I still had it. And I was actively using Adex E3D.

300mg of test E a week years later and I found that 300mg alone with no anti estrogen nor HCG reduced my gyno by surprise (probably a precursor to "bro you gave yourself low T!!).

I get it. During a cycle if you are going to use it is 500IU of HCG minimal, while if you're just on TRT/HRT, sometimes a higher dose is productive.

That when you do PCT the standard protocol is 1000IU of HCG with clomid at 100/100/50/50 and nolvadex at 40/40/20/20 for four weeks.

That your last four weeks of your cycle it's a good idea to switch to ace/prop/orals so you can start your PCT after 3 days rather than waiting for the last shot of your long acting esters to detox out of your body.

What I will admit is... I stopped studying after my use. I found no use for it. Until now where it's painfully obvious intervention is needed.

There's more to say but I don't want Cylon357 coming back at me with another "man you talk to much" post when I need him right now.

[Cylon357]

There's more to say but I don't want Cylon357 coming back at me with another "man you talk to much" post when I need him right now.

You know, you said a lot there, but I still don't think it is clear what you want to do.

I will say HCG shouldn't be in most PCT protocols.

I will also add that masteron could make your gyno all but go away. Is that a good idea? Maybe not, because I still don't know if you are trying to come off or go back on or what.

See? Not once did I say you talk too much

Seriously tho, what do you want to do?

[Positiveweight]

I've been on 1000IU of HCG weekly for three weeks now with only 20mg of clomid daily and .25 of letro daily.

I can feel a difference. & I waited it out to ween out any placebo effects.

What I hate is... What I truly hate about it. Is that my original spark is resurfacing. That, that means something has to be done as clearly I $#@!ed things up.

That I hate myself for being subject to low test by my own mistake.

I do want a way out but I also cannot deny that using exogenous test with AAS is indefinitely in my near future. None the less at safe and tolerable dosages BUT future use seems undeniable. ESPECIALLY where I seemed to have doomed myself to TRT/HRT anyway. As said before. At that point you might as well live in up within the realm of your bodies individual tolerances.

[956Vette]

Heart goes out, bro. We're here to help. Please understand you'll need to get your gyno surgically removed, sooner the better. It's not worth finding out if unicorn tablets work. Many folks in a bind, including myself, learn hard lessons after following ancillary hopium and protocols pitched on socials...please don't repeat our mistakes.

[Cylon357]

I've been on 1000IU of HCG weekly for three weeks now with only 20mg of clomid daily and .25 of letro daily.

I can feel a difference. & I waited it out to ween out any placebo effects.

What I hate is... What I truly hate about it. Is that my original spark is resurfacing. That, that means something has to be done as clearly I $#@!ed things up.

That I hate myself for being subject to low test by my own mistake.

I do want a way out but I also cannot deny that using exogenous test with AAS is indefinitely in my near future. None the less at safe and tolerable dosages BUT future use seems undeniable. ESPECIALLY where I seemed to have doomed myself to TRT/HRT anyway. As said before. At that point you might as well live in up within the realm of your bodies individual tolerances.

How old are you?

[Cuz]

So basically you plan on doing more steroid cycles in the future but you are trying to get rid of gyno from previous cycles …you dont want TRT for whatever reason I may have missed and you are trying to jumpstart your natural test production back up in the meantime as a bridge between future cycles?
Am I close?

[Positiveweight]

Sorry I lost my password. Finally got it back.

Update.
I'm seeing a urologist in April to discuss further the aftermath of the decision we make and how it can wreck havoc on a few of us.

I will say this. After only one month of HCG @1000IU a week with clomid and letro (yes former unaddressed gyno) that things are better. Faaaaaaar from normal. But I'd be discrediting even the one month of a wicked past due PCT had on me.

Boys are close(er) to normal. Although not at their baseline genetics; and I know the mess I got myself in. The production of testosterone was undeniable while on for only one month. And weeks after that one month my boys are producing... Not what they used too and I know this is an awkward subject but it unfortunately has direct correlation to your overall levels.

With that said.
The urologist is giving me the snip ... We'll also talk about TRT/recovery and potentially discussing my potential paths to take.

I have thought about it.

Caving into 200mg Test E a week with 200 Mast E a week. Along side 750IU of HCG with the planned appropriate anti estrogens IF needed due to mast. Could very well be my new calling for a baseline.

As Seth Feroce always says. You know what you got yourself into. Don't bitch and deal with the consequences. Well I'm living rh consequences and fuck it ... I just want my life back and thank goodness there is a way out. For my situation that is.

I'd love to entertain the strict HCG of protocol but the shouts from the veterans tell otherwise. It makes me wonder if 750IU of HCG a week ALONG SIDE test/mast/anti estro as needed will suffice in my situation. Sure longer time to get results due to the lower dosage of HCG combined with exogenous testosterone use. But on a chemical level. I wonder if 750IU of HCG taken over the course of years will be equivalent to only 2000IU of HCG & ancillaries for 2-6 months.

This also leaves room for enclomiphene intervention if shit hits the fan even further.

Long story short. Genetics or not.... And as an afro Latino I do blame it on not having the right PCT when it was CRUCIAL to do so. I am a walking example of what can happen when shit gets fucked up. Period. I'm not afraid of using more AAS as my own personal life decision. But this FREAK accident can double as a warning sign to what can happen. Like I said. Genetics or not, and I'd like to think looking in the mirror genetics are on my side. Doesn't matter. Shit hit the fan at a life altering hard

[Cylon357]

Sorry I lost my password. Finally got it back.

Update.
I'm seeing a urologist in April to discuss further the aftermath of the decision we make and how it can wreck havoc on a few of us.

I will say this. After only one month of HCG @1000IU a week with clomid and letro (yes former unaddressed gyno) that things are better. Faaaaaaar from normal. But I'd be discrediting even the one month of a wicked past due PCT had on me.

Boys are close(er) to normal. Although not at their baseline genetics; and I know the mess I got myself in. The production of testosterone was undeniable while on for only one month. And weeks after that one month my boys are producing... Not what they used too and I know this is an awkward subject but it unfortunately has direct correlation to your overall levels.

With that said.
The urologist is giving me the snip ... We'll also talk about TRT/recovery and potentially discussing my potential paths to take.

I have thought about it.

Caving into 200mg Test E a week with 200 Mast E a week. Along side 750IU of HCG with the planned appropriate anti estrogens IF needed due to mast. Could very well be my new calling for a baseline.

As Seth Feroce always says. You know what you got yourself into. Don't bitch and deal with the consequences. Well I'm living rh consequences and fuck it ... I just want my life back and thank goodness there is a way out. For my situation that is.

I'd love to entertain the strict HCG of protocol but the shouts from the veterans tell otherwise. It makes me wonder if 750IU of HCG a week ALONG SIDE test/mast/anti estro as needed will suffice in my situation. Sure longer time to get results due to the lower dosage of HCG combined with exogenous testosterone use. But on a chemical level. I wonder if 750IU of HCG taken over the course of years will be equivalent to only 2000IU of HCG & ancillaries for 2-6 months.

This also leaves room for enclomiphene intervention if shit hits the fan even further.

Long story short. Genetics or not.... And as an afro Latino I do blame it on not having the right PCT when it was CRUCIAL to do so. I am a walking example of what can happen when shit gets fucked up. Period. I'm not afraid of using more AAS as my own personal life decision. But this FREAK accident can double as a warning sign to what can happen. Like I said. Genetics or not, and I'd like to think looking in the mirror genetics are on my side. Doesn't matter. Shit hit the fan at a life altering hard

If the urologist "giving you the snip" means getting a vasectomy, HCG loses some of its appeal. Not all of it, but some.

200 Test with 200 Mast is nobody's baseline, assuming you mean "an ongoing TRT protocol". Though on the plus side, most people do not need aromatase inhibitors at 1 to 1 test to mast. 200 / 200 is just too big a dose to be safely considered ongoing, IMO.

Nobody can really answer the question of best way forward, as it seems like you are working through options with your urologist. You gotta decide what you want before we can make solid recommends.

Good luck and keep us posted!

PS - blood work would be appropriate, too.

[Quester]

I agree with Cylon and the others.
-
It sounds as if you have made your goals based upon the indications for these medications instead of having goals and then finding methods to realize them. Perhaps that is what gets many into this position?
-
I'm gonna ask something different but more along the lines with my job now.
What are your feelings surrounding the issue that made you post? For clarity, I am asking about how you felt before and when you originally posted? Can you share the emotional context that may have been involved when you were putting this post together and then/also was affecting you while you posted?