Thoughts on this Cycle please?

[FryingPanMan244]

Alright... so, firstly, im 34 years old, been training for a good 3 and a half years and i feel like im getting diminishing returns on my PB's and general "Fitness" level, TLR i think im hitting my limit of natural strength at this current point, and as i get older, i get the feeling its not going to get "Better" persay

now... Stats, im 34, 5ft 11" 170ish lbs, with a BF of about 14 - 15% (Electrical pulse estimate) Blood work is Nominal for my age, and Metabolic age is that of a 23 year old

Goal for the cycle, Super lean bulk

Cycle itself

300mg Test Heptylate Every monday and thursday 600mg per week (front loaded)
200mg Primo Depot Every monday and thursday 400mg per week (front loaded)
250iu hcg every 4-5 days
10 to 20mg Nolva every day

PCT starts 10 days after last Cycle injection

HCG 350IU's every day for 13 days

From second week

Nolva 40MG Every day for staring in week 2 after HCG 2 weeks
Nolva 20MG every day for a further 2 weeks

any thoughts, help/Criticism welcome

thanks in advance

[Cylon357]

Alright... so, firstly, im 34 years old, been training for a good 3 and a half years and i feel like im getting diminishing returns on my PB's and general "Fitness" level, TLR i think im hitting my limit of natural strength at this current point, and as i get older, i get the feeling its not going to get "Better" persay

now... Stats, im 34, 5ft 11" 170ish lbs, with a BF of about 14 - 15% (Electrical pulse estimate) Blood work is Nominal for my age, and Metabolic age is that of a 23 year old

Goal for the cycle, Super lean bulk

Cycle itself

300mg Test Heptylate Every monday and thursday 600mg per week (front loaded)
200mg Primo Depot Every monday and thursday 400mg per week (front loaded)
250iu hcg every 4-5 days
10 to 20mg Nolva every day

PCT starts 10 days after last Cycle injection

HCG 350IU's every day for 13 days

From second week

Nolva 40MG Every day for staring in week 2 after HCG 2 weeks
Nolva 20MG every day for a further 2 weeks

any thoughts, help/Criticism welcome

thanks in advance

Peep the planning my first cycle sticky. There is tons of good info there.

At 5'11" and 170, I say you aren't eating enough. If your bodyfat estimate is correct, you aren't putting on muscle very well. Part of that is diet, part is training related. Post up your routine, some feedback on that will be useful.

Why the nolva preemptively? Have you cycle before?

Also, why test h?

[FryingPanMan244]

Thanks for the Reply

As for eating, i get roughly 2300 calories a day, fatty red meats, leafy vegetables and dairy (im on a long term ketogenic diet) and tbh, i have to force it down due to not feeling hunger at all

Training

Day 1 - Every set is to muscular failure

3 sets Ab rollouts
3 sets Lat pulldowns
4 sets lower cable crossovers (pec)
4 sets Tricep Pushdowns
3 sets leg press
3 sets landmine oblique rotations
3 sets lateral rises (rotator cuff)
3 sets upright row
3 sets skull crushers
3-4 sets preacher curl (bicep)

Day 2

3 sets ab rollouts
4 sets incline dumbbell bench press (1 set at 4KG lower per bell than previous 3)
3 sets lateral rises (lower dorsal variant)
3 sets upright row
3 sets landmine oblique rotations
3 sets overhead rises (upper pec)
3 sets skullcrushers
3-4 sets seated dumbbell bicep curl (full extension)
3 sets tricep dip (bodyweight)

10 mins max effort HIIT Cardio (1 min max sprint, 30 seconds rest)

Day 3, rest

Rinse and repeat

Reason for the Heptylate, Its cheaper, the lab is reliable (had stuff from them before) and its easily available where i live, slightly longer ester allows less pinning, only twice a week as apposed too EoD

Reason for the early Nolva, i am susceptible to gyno, had it growing up through natural puberty... so erring on the side of caution

[Cylon357]

Thanks for the Reply

As for eating, i get roughly 2300 calories a day, fatty red meats, leafy vegetables and dairy (im on a long term ketogenic diet) and tbh, i have to force it down due to not feeling hunger at all

Training

Day 1 - Every set is to muscular failure

3 sets Ab rollouts
3 sets Lat pulldowns
4 sets lower cable crossovers (pec)
4 sets Tricep Pushdowns
3 sets leg press
3 sets landmine oblique rotations
3 sets lateral rises (rotator cuff)
3 sets upright row
3 sets skull crushers
3-4 sets preacher curl (bicep)

Day 2

3 sets ab rollouts
4 sets incline dumbbell bench press (1 set at 4KG lower per bell than previous 3)
3 sets lateral rises (lower dorsal variant)
3 sets upright row
3 sets landmine oblique rotations
3 sets overhead rises (upper pec)
3 sets skullcrushers
3-4 sets seated dumbbell bicep curl (full extension)
3 sets tricep dip (bodyweight)

10 mins max effort HIIT Cardio (1 min max sprint, 30 seconds rest)

Day 3, rest

Rinse and repeat

Reason for the Heptylate, Its cheaper, the lab is reliable (had stuff from them before) and its easily available where i live, slightly longer ester allows less pinning, only twice a week as apposed too EoD

Reason for the early Nolva, i am susceptible to gyno, had it growing up through natural puberty... so erring on the side of caution

Good to know on the drug choice, I would recommend starting low end on the nolva, like 5mg per day.

Your training needs work.

If I'm looking at this right, the only leg exercise is 3 sets of leg presses? The rest of the routine is largely assistance work.

Squats, dips, overhead press, barbell rows, pull ups, bench press and maybe dead lifts should be your core exercises.

You are simultaneously not giving your muscles sufficient stimulation to grow and over working them with volume. They lack stimulation because you are avoiding compound lifts, and there is too much volume because you are a) going to failure on all sets and b) working out 5 days a week some weeks.

In other words, you are training to NOT gain weight.

Cut back to 3 or 4 workouts per week, and incorporate compound movements. Take a look at 531 and modify that some, mostly by increasing the rep range and decreasing intensity. You might not do deadlifts, tbh, they are not the best exercise for hypertrophy, and many people execute them poorly. If you drop deads, definitely do barbell rows.

Increase your calories by 500 per day... find a way to do it. Mixed nuts, almond butter and jelly sandwiches, boiled eggs are all good easy sources of the types of nutrients you need right now.

Make sure to dial in your sleep, too.

So,
Train smarter
Eat smarter
Recover more
Grow more

This is, of course, just one man's opinion...

[Cylon357]

One other thought: maybe take a look at masteron instead of primo. Masteron kills gyno, pretty much. That would kill the need for nolva.

Also, this is way too much gear for a first cycle. Cut the doses in half and it would be fine.

[FryingPanMan244]

Interesting

thanks for the info, i will take it all into consideration and have a brainstorm of things to change

cheers again

[FryingPanMan244]

also, the reason for only 1 leg exercise is my legs are and always have been solid and huge compared too the rest of my body, so i don't like to over stimulate them idky but for some reason i have Schwarzenegger legs without having to work them out at all

[Mooseman33]

post pic please. Lets see these wheels you say u have.

I would not run any geaer training like that and eating like this. You are young, you have alot of time. No gear, learn how to eat and train, then add the gear and u will blow up buddy...

[Cylon357]

This is the first cycle link I mentioned. Read the first post and you will be way ahead of where you are now.

Note that in your particular case, I find it appropriate to deviate from the "test only" first cycle recommend. There is still a truck load of good info in that thread.

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...rst-cycle.html

[Honkey_Kong]

You're never going to put on mass eating 2300 calories a day. Your cycle doesn't matter, because your diet an training are shit for your body.

[FryingPanMan244]

Well, yes and no

the whole "A calorie is a calorie" is a gross misinterpretation of how the body processes energy, its the reason why obese people can eat 1800 calories a day but still not lose weight

because they are eating the "Wrong" kind of calories

this being carbohydrates, proteins and fats

Carbs being the easy energy, and fats being the hard energy as far as your body is concerned

i run on a Ketogenic diet, and as such my body is more "Energy efficient" because it runs on fats, transposing them into ketone bodies and then ATP instead of running on carbohydrates, transposing into glucose and then into ATP

this is one of the reasons i don't feel "Hungry" is because my body is never deprived of "Energy"

also, the whole "Men need 2500cal" a day is also a falsity because it doesn't take into account metabolic differences

my metabolic age is roughly 23 and at my weight and height plus muscle to fat to water ratio of my body in order to maintain weight i require roughly 2000 calories a day, not 2500 so i thought 2300 would be enough


as for my training, yes you're probably right it needs work, but then again im far more knowledgeable about diet and metabolic processes than i am physical training routines

just calling it shit and giving no pointers/help is a little disingenuous from your part

i understand you have no obligation to help, but you also have no obligation to be an arse either

[Honkey_Kong]

Well, yes and no

the whole "A calorie is a calorie" is a gross misinterpretation of how the body processes energy, its the reason why obese people can eat 1800 calories a day but still not lose weight

because they are eating the "Wrong" kind of calories

this being carbohydrates, proteins and fats

Carbs being the easy energy, and fats being the hard energy as far as your body is concerned

i run on a Ketogenic diet, and as such my body is more "Energy efficient" because it runs on fats, transposing them into ketone bodies and then ATP instead of running on carbohydrates, transposing into glucose and then into ATP

this is one of the reasons i don't feel "Hungry" is because my body is never deprived of "Energy"

also, the whole "Men need 2500cal" a day is also a falsity because it doesn't take into account metabolic differences

my metabolic age is roughly 23 and at my weight and height plus muscle to fat to water ratio of my body in order to maintain weight i require roughly 2000 calories a day, not 2500 so i thought 2300 would be enough


as for my training, yes you're probably right it needs work, but then again im far more knowledgeable about diet and metabolic processes than i am physical training routines

just calling it shit and giving no pointers/help is a little disingenuous from your part

i understand you have no obligation to help, but you also have no obligation to be an arse either

By your own admission you're 5'10 and 170lbs and 15% bf. What you're doing isn't working. And here you are trying to bullshit instead of take in the advice people gave you for free. But whatever, taking gear is going to fix your shit diet LOL.

[FryingPanMan244]

i am taking advice, what you offered is not advise, its just being a dick for being a dicks sake, for instance Cylon has given me alot to investigate and look up, where as you called my diet and workout shit, and laughed

see the difference?

ive seen you around this forum and all you do is criticise and abuse "Newbies" without ever offering "Help"

you are a dick, and seemingly a gatekeeper... so the only people who can use steroids is you and people who already look like they use steroids?... gotcha buddy, thanks for the "Help", you are excused

P.S, my diet isn't shit, it helped me drop 56lbs of fat in 4 months

[Honkey_Kong]

i am taking advice, what you offered is not advise, its just being a dick for being a dicks sake, for instance Cylon has given me alot to investigate and look up, where as you called my diet and workout shit, and laughed

see the difference?

ive seen you around this forum and all you do is criticise and abuse "Newbies" without ever offering "Help"

you are a dick, and seemingly a gatekeeper... so the only people who can use steroids is you and people who already look like they use steroids?... gotcha buddy, thanks for the "Help", you are excused

P.S, my diet isn't shit, it helped me drop 56lbs of fat in 4 months

A guy who is 5'10 170lbs and 15+% bodyfat (which I doubt you know is even accurate) is not somebody who should be taking steroids. You can have a tantrum all you want, but somebody telling you "no" is the best advice you're going to get.

And your diet is shit. Let's put it like this if you got rid of all of your bodyfat, you'd be 144.5 lbs For somebody that's 5'10 that literally means you have next to no muscle on your body. But yeah, your diet isn't shit and you're ready for gear. LOL.

[Rajky]

i am taking advice, what you offered is not advise, its just being a dick for being a dicks sake, for instance Cylon has given me alot to investigate and look up, where as you called my diet and workout shit, and laughed

see the difference?

ive seen you around this forum and all you do is criticise and abuse "Newbies" without ever offering "Help"

you are a dick, and seemingly a gatekeeper... so the only people who can use steroids is you and people who already look like they use steroids?... gotcha buddy, thanks for the "Help", you are excused

P.S, my diet isn't shit, it helped me drop 56lbs of fat in 4 months

Well said mate !, In my first post seeking advice was criticized rather advised, by the same person even my thread has been locked for that. We all coming and posting here is to learn not to feel down.

[FryingPanMan244]

Bogoff, im not interested in your self ego boosting put downs

you're the sort of person who laughs at fat people in the gym for being fat... get over yourself, as joey Swol would say, "You need to do better"

[FryingPanMan244]

Well said mate !, In my first post seeking advice was criticized rather advised, by the same person even my thread has been locked for that. We all coming and posting here is to learn not to feel down.

100% this forum is supposed to be for advice, "Questions and answers"

not gatekeeping and putdowns

[Mooseman33]

lets back on track fellas.

truth hurts sometimes buddy. ur diet is bad as it should be customized for ur goals, and training is bad. There is no way u should be on any steroid, regardless what anyone here tells you, not mast, nothing.
great job on dropping the weight, keep it going. That will require changes as it will become more difficult to lose the leaner u get.
get off everything, learn how to train proper and spend as much time learning about diets. Stay with it buddy, everyone learns and deals with the ups and downs.
stop being so emotional, we all get shit when we start, look my shit up from 18 years ago, i got my lunch eaten here daily learning. stick around, train, and learn

[FryingPanMan244]

lets back on track fellas.

truth hurts sometimes buddy. ur diet is bad as it should be customized for ur goals, and training is bad. There is no way u should be on any steroid, regardless what anyone here tells you, not mast, nothing.
great job on dropping the weight, keep it going. That will require changes as it will become more difficult to lose the leaner u get.
get off everything, learn how to train proper and spend as much time learning about diets. Stay with it buddy, everyone learns and deals with the ups and downs.
stop being so emotional, we all get shit when we start, look my shit up from 18 years ago, i got my lunch eaten here daily learning. stick around, train, and learn

i appreciate the input my dude, and especially the tone in which you delivered it

but i disagree, my diet is not bad, my diet is perfectly tuned to keeping fat off, you may disagree with a ketogenic diet, and it goes against established norms, but i am sorry established norms are the reason the western world is ballooning in the midsection

now... maybe i require more calories in my diet yes, but that doesn't mean i need to stuff down plate after plate of brown rice and chicken "the established norm", it can be done in other ways which fit into my keto diet, which i will look into

as for my training, sure, it probably is bad, because im not a professional at weight training, where i am a professional with diet and nutrition

so, i will look into changing my training program like cylon and now you have suggested

but... honkey needs to step off, and wind his neck in, im not some errant 18yo pup who thinks steroids will make me insta buff, and not everyone wants to be the next mister universe

his attitude to anyone who isn't a Tren inflated gym bro is atrocious, im not being emotional at all, my ASD precludes me from doing this, i am merely calling an asshole an asshole

[teedoff]

but i disagree, my diet is not bad, my diet is perfectly tuned to keeping fat off, you may disagree with a ketogenic diet, and it goes against established norms, but i am sorry established norms are the reason the western world is ballooning in the midsection

as for my training, sure, it probably is bad, because im not a professional at weight training, where i am a professional with diet and nutrition

This is why you and others get some attitude. You come here asking for advice, then argue with the great advice given from guys that have been doing this stuff for years, even decades.

Why ask if you're going to say you're an expert if diet and nutrition? If you wer, you'd realize your diet isn't good for your goals. You're trying get put in muscle, right? Eating a caloric deficit will not help you do that.

People don't come here just to run others down. They like to try to help others. And it's all free! So, if you don't like the free expert advice, maybe you should hire training and diet coaches.

And you.....you'll be gone after you get what you want from the help given here and will never return the favor to others.

[FryingPanMan244]

This is why you and others get some attitude. You come here asking for advice, then argue with the great advice given from guys that have been doing this stuff for years, even decades.

Why ask if you're going to say you're an expert if diet and nutrition? If you wer, you'd realize your diet isn't good for your goals. You're trying get put in muscle, right? Eating a caloric deficit will not help you do that.

People don't come here just to run others down. They like to try to help others. And it's all free! So, if you don't like the free expert advice, maybe you should hire training and diet coaches.

And you.....you'll be gone after you get what you want from the help given here and will never return the favor to others.

i think you misunderstand, people calling my diet "Shit" with no context, is how i disagree, my diet (A ketogenic diet) is not "Shit" in any way shape or form, it is an extremely good diet, for fat management, and muscle gain, and yes, you can gain muscle on it even in a "Calorie deficit" because a calorie is not a calorie, there are "Wrong calories"

now... again, i stated, i would look into increasing my calories, within the confines of the ketogenic diet, a keto diet is not limited to a certain amount of calories per day, it is only limited to the amount of carbohydrates you can eat

I don't need advice on diet, im happy to accept it, but not need it

what i do need advice on is steroid cycles, and quite obviously training routines, which, i have accepted and am doing further research on

also, just because someone may have been doing something a long time, doesn't mean its correct, nor the most efficient way of doing it

what i don't need, and no one here needs, is attitudes from people like honkey who simply say "This and that is shit and you're shit LOL come back when you lift bro" Etc etc, it helps no one, and all it does is lead to newbies trying things and hurting themselves

its not advice in any way shape or form, its just "Laughing at the fat guy in the gym for being fat" as i have stated

and how do you know i won't stick around? and continue my journey here? i mean i wouldn't blame anyone for not sticking around with people like Honkey putting them down all the time untill they meet a certain criteria

[Mooseman33]

i appreciate the input my dude, and especially the tone in which you delivered it

but i disagree, my diet is not bad, my diet is perfectly tuned to keeping fat off, you may disagree with a ketogenic diet, and it goes against established norms, but i am sorry established norms are the reason the western world is ballooning in the midsection

now... maybe i require more calories in my diet yes, but that doesn't mean i need to stuff down plate after plate of brown rice and chicken "the established norm", it can be done in other ways which fit into my keto diet, which i will look into

as for my training, sure, it probably is bad, because im not a professional at weight training, where i am a professional with diet and nutrition

so, i will look into changing my training program like cylon and now you have suggested

but... honkey needs to step off, and wind his neck in, im not some errant 18yo pup who thinks steroids will make me insta buff, and not everyone wants to be the next mister universe

his attitude to anyone who isn't a Tren inflated gym bro is atrocious, im not being emotional at all, my ASD precludes me from doing this, i am merely calling an asshole an asshole

funny you turn to the western world to teach you how to get fit.

you are full of shit. no way you are pro diet or pro anything.

[FryingPanMan244]

funny you turn to the western world to teach you how to get fit.

you are full of shit. no way you are pro diet or pro anything.

thanks for your opinion, its not what helped me lose a lot of fat and get in the best shape of my life, but but you're welcome to it

[kelkel]

Calm down a bit. You're getting solid advice above but "not liking the tone" is deflecting. The guys are correct that you are not eating enough. Cycling will not solve that. Learning to eat and eat enough is probably the hardest thing to do. If you don't eat enough you don't grow. If you want to weigh 200 lbs then you have to eat like you're 200 lbs. Otherwise anabolics will give you a temporary boost only, that's it.I'd seriously look at your diet first before venturing into cycling. You need another 1k calories per day minimum. You can make great gains by doing so in conjunction with making your workouts more growth specific. Best of luck.

[JTP$]

Alright... so, firstly, im 34 years old, been training for a good 3 and a half years and i feel like im getting diminishing returns on my PB's and general "Fitness" level, TLR i think im hitting my limit of natural strength at this current point, and as i get older, i get the feeling its not going to get "Better" persay

now... Stats, im 34, 5ft 11" 170ish lbs, with a BF of about 14 - 15% (Electrical pulse estimate) Blood work is Nominal for my age, and Metabolic age is that of a 23 year old

Goal for the cycle, Super lean bulk

Cycle itself

300mg Test Heptylate Every monday and thursday 600mg per week (front loaded)
200mg Primo Depot Every monday and thursday 400mg per week (front loaded)
250iu hcg every 4-5 days
10 to 20mg Nolva every day

PCT starts 10 days after last Cycle injection

HCG 350IU's every day for 13 days

From second week

Nolva 40MG Every day for staring in week 2 after HCG 2 weeks
Nolva 20MG every day for a further 2 weeks

any thoughts, help/Criticism welcome

thanks in advance

several thoughts here:

if youve only been training a few years then youre nowhere near your genetic limit.

cycle dose is a little high, especially for a first cycle

PCT needs to start much later than 10 days after your last shot. id say start PCT minimum of 5 weeks after your last injection

also, you're 34 and your test levels are probably already starting to decline. if i were in your position i would get a prescription for TRT first, then start blasting gear.

also, as mentioned above, make sure your diet and training are spot on.

[FryingPanMan244]

Calm down a bit. You're getting solid advice above but "not liking the tone" is deflecting. The guys are correct that you are not eating enough. Cycling will not solve that. Learning to eat and eat enough is probably the hardest thing to do. If you don't eat enough you don't grow. If you want to weigh 200 lbs then you have to eat like you're 200 lbs. Otherwise anabolics will give you a temporary boost only, that's it.I'd seriously look at your diet first before venturing into cycling. You need another 1k calories per day minimum. You can make great gains by doing so in conjunction with making your workouts more growth specific. Best of luck.

i am perfectly calm my friend, and the advice is good, sure, calling things shit, is not, and its not advice

like, saying "My diet is shit", its not, its scientifically studied and proven to be the optimal human diet, now, am i eating enough? you and others are right, probably not, which is something i can look into, and is good advice, but just saying "Your diet is shit"... isn't good is it?

secondly, as for my training yes i need to look into changing it, and i will as i have been advised, but once again calling it "Shit" and the laughing, is not advice

thanks for your input, and as said previously, i will look into changing things to see what i can achieve

[FryingPanMan244]

several thoughts here:

if youve only been training a few years then youre nowhere near your genetic limit.

cycle dose is a little high, especially for a first cycle

PCT needs to start much later than 10 days after your last shot. id say start PCT minimum of 5 weeks after your last injection

also, you're 34 and your test levels are probably already starting to decline. if i were in your position i would get a prescription for TRT first, then start blasting gear.

also, as mentioned above, make sure your diet and training are spot on.

Thank you for your input

i am aware i am not at my genetic limit, and to be honest, i'm probably not looking to get to that anyway, one of the reasons i am looking to cycle is to make things easier

i am getting older, and things are becoming harder, because as you say, my natural testosterone is decreasing

thanks for the info on the cycle and the PCT, someone else advised cutting the dose in half, which is something i can definitely do, as i'm not looking for anything amazing, just a booster to help (i'm not afraid of hard work)

as for TRT unfortunately where i live, my current testosterone levels are considered by the doctors to be "Within normal range" despite them being half what my fathers were at my age, and one quarter what my grandfathers were at the same age

so i won't be able too get a legit script

[Honkey_Kong]

i am perfectly calm my friend, and the advice is good, sure, calling things shit, is not, and its not advice

like, saying "My diet is shit", its not, its scientifically studied and proven to be the optimal human diet, now, am i eating enough? you and others are right, probably not, which is something i can look into, and is good advice, but just saying "Your diet is shit"... isn't good is it?

secondly, as for my training yes i need to look into changing it, and i will as i have been advised, but once again calling it "Shit" and the laughing, is not advice

thanks for your input, and as said previously, i will look into changing things to see what i can achieve

LOL You're still going to die on that sword? If your goal is to build muscle and strength, you're not going to accomplish anything with that diet. The only way you're going to put muscle on is if you're in a caloric surplus. And by your own admission, you're not.

This troll is really getting old though.

[FryingPanMan244]

LOL You're still going to die on that sword? If your goal is to build muscle and strength, you're not going to accomplish anything with that diet. The only way you're going to put muscle on is if you're in a caloric surplus. And by your own admission, you're not.

This troll is really getting old though.

You can eat as many calories as you want and still be on a ketogenic diet dick head, fuck off and shotgun a tren and vodka cocktail

[Mooseman33]

def. hall of shame worthy

"its not, its scientifically studied and proven to be the optimal human diet"

please share where this diet was studied and proven for someone with ur stats.

[markwilliams]

Looks like a solid plan overall. Maybe tweak the HCG frequency for stability. Otherwise, stay mindful of your body's response and adjust as needed.

[teedoff]

You can eat as many calories as you want and still be on a ketogenic diet dick head, fuck off and shotgun a tren and vodka cocktail

Low carb diets ARE sh*t for adding lean muscle. That's a proven fact. While a keto diet seems to work for many ppl to lose weight it's no recommended for building lean muscle.

Wish I could add the url source.

"CAN I DO KETO AND BODYBUILDING TOGETHER?
Given the energy demands required for intense weightlifting, a ketogenic lifestyle isn't really compatible with a bodybuilding regimen. According to Andrea N. Giancoli, MPH, RD, while it's possible to train on a ketogenic diet, your body will need carbs for serious bodybuilding activity, something obviously lacking during ketosis.

"You need five to seven grams of carbohydrates per kilogram of body weight for weightlifting," she says. Based on the above carbohydrate intake imposed by a ketogenic diet, this works out fine if you weigh 13 pounds."

[Testie]

One other thought: maybe take a look at masteron instead of primo. Masteron kills gyno, pretty much. That would kill the need for nolva.

Also, this is way too much gear for a first cycle. Cut the doses in half and it would be fine.

Would definitely agree on the switch to masteron as well especially if the gentleman is worried about cost, legit primo can be quite pricey