Pre workout carbs?

[Polska]

Alright...... here's what's bugging me.......

After 4 PM I cut out all carbs except for fibrous ones and post workout carbs. At around 6 or 7 I may have a salad w/ lots of greens in it and a can of tuna with some flax oil........

At 9 o'clock I work out pretty hard for 45 mins to an hour.

The thing is, with not eating any real carbs since 4pm I am starting to feel sort of lethargic in the gym... due to lack of carbs, I don't have enough energy to perform my workout 100%. My rest intervals are becoming ridiculous... somewhere in the 3 to 4 minute range. And I am aiming for hypertrophy.....

I am also afraid of catabolism during my workout due to the calorie/carb deficit in my diet... I am currently running Fina / Prop / EQ to help me with the cutting process but regardless I still FEEL smaller... like I am losing muscle.

What would be a good pre workout meal (and how long before my workout) in order to get me through and keep me from going catabolic....?
I don't want to consume any heavy carbs late in the day if I dont have to... not to mention I am trying to avoid insulin spikes when at all possible....

My current preworkout 'meal' is a whey shake with a teaspoon of flax in it.

Thanks for any input.

[SwoleCat]

It's more mental than anything. If your workouts are an hour or less, the pwo carbs (if u have meals planned appropriately) are more than enough to stave off catabolism. As well, the gear you are on shall help you. Again, it's all in your head for the most part.

~SC~

[Valmont]

Alright...... here's what's bugging me.......

After 4 PM I cut out all carbs except for fibrous ones and post workout carbs. At around 6 or 7 I may have a salad w/ lots of greens in it and a can of tuna with some flax oil........

At 9 o'clock I work out pretty hard for 45 mins to an hour.

The thing is, with not eating any real carbs since 4pm I am starting to feel sort of lethargic in the gym... due to lack of carbs, I don't have enough energy to perform my workout 100%. My rest intervals are becoming ridiculous... somewhere in the 3 to 4 minute range. And I am aiming for hypertrophy.....

I am also afraid of catabolism during my workout due to the calorie/carb deficit in my diet... I am currently running Fina / Prop / EQ to help me with the cutting process but regardless I still FEEL smaller... like I am losing muscle.

What would be a good pre workout meal (and how long before my workout) in order to get me through and keep me from going catabolic....?
I don't want to consume any heavy carbs late in the day if I dont have to... not to mention I am trying to avoid insulin spikes when at all possible....

My current preworkout 'meal' is a whey shake with a teaspoon of flax in it.

Thanks for any input.

Brother, it definetly not inside your head-besides we are not psychologists here. And most importantly this is your health we are talking about. You should know that several people report feeling sluggish from high fat diets.

Pre-work out carbohydrate consumption has a profound impact o*n workout performance. Your leves energy and performance is completely contingent upon your pre-exercise glycogen levels. The lower you glycogen levels, the greater the need for ingested glucose, and the more of an impact pre-ingestion can have on your results. Keeping blood glucose levels high during all types of moderate to high levels of phyical exershion is extremely important for optimum workout success.

[Kim2884]

I tend to agree that pre workout carbs allow you to have a lot more energy during your workout, although I wouldn't say they are necessary. I think it depends on how you feel when you work out. If you can get away with not eating carbs beforehand, which I think a lot of people do, then don't bother...but if you're noticing a marked decrease in your ability to lift with intensity, then some pre workout carbs could benefit you. I think the more important issue here is that you're cutting out carbs at a particular TIME. Time shouldn't matter. Plan your carb intake around your activity. If you lift after 4, you most certainly should be eating carbs after 4..most importantly, post-workout and optionally pre-workout if you feel they are needed. Just replace a carb meal or two earlier in the day with protein/fat to make up for it.

[usualsuspect]

Catabolism is the least of your concerns while on aas. You can probably fast for a day straight and still stay in an anabolic mode. No need to worry there brutha.

But if your energy is lacking in the gym its probably due in large part to a hypocalorie diet which I assume your on. Having an insulin inducing meal prior to working out will not help matter either. Actually it may make your more sluggish (it does to me) and possibly lead to hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia and lead to a rebound hypoglycemia (decreased blood glucose) about 30 minutes later. Endurance runners/athletes need carbs before a long duration event (maybe thats what Valmont was talking about ) but not bodybuilders.

Sipping on a high gi simple carb/protein shake during your workout may help offset the lack of energy your experiencing without having any neg affects on your fat burning goals. Then have your liquid shake following your workout also to replenish glycogen levels.

[SwoleCat]

Thank you U.S. for explaining this. I was going to type a thesis directed at Valmont, but you saved me a lot of time an analytical critiquing by doing so.

YOU know what you're talking about!

Pre-workout carbs to actually GIVE ENERGY TO THAT WORKOUT, cannot be ingested in the meal before for energy. In order to use carbs for fuel, you'd have to consume them many hours before, like 6-10 hours before. As well, he is cutting and the ingestion of carbs throughout the day for this false sense of "energy" you are touting, are in direct conflict with his cutting/dietary goals.

So yes, it is mental, and yes there are psychologists in the room. You yourself should note many feel sluggish from high carb diets..........so, touche' my brutha, and to each his own. You stated your info as if it were etched in stone, and it's most certainly not.

~SC~

~SC~

[Valmont]

Okaybe..in laymens terms: swole should help be able to help cypher the big words.


You see suspect- for short term intermittent maximal exercises and resistance training -- the type of training we are speaking of.. when short, but maximal exercises are performed with sufficient rest and in low quantities, it has been shown that it is the creatine-phosphate system that becomes the most taxed [7]. As soon as we either a) dramatically increase lifts, b) decreased the rest intervals to very short times, or c) make recovery active in nature, or d) more than o*ne of these combined, the protocal changes.

When we do this the body is forced to go past the very limited stores of creatine-phosphate and turn to glucose/glycogen for energy. So, just like the endurance athletes, low carbohydrate levels can impair performance in sprinters, weightlifters, middle distance runners, and just about anyone who lifts should see that even though weight training types of activities probably will not normally reach as deep into the reserves as endurance training, but let’s remember the low carbohydrate diets of today and how they have become a part of bodybuilding.


wow...

[Polska]

Thanks for the replies

Very helpful!!!

[Valmont]

.so, touche' my brutha,

~SC~

~SC~[/QUOTE]

Man, why all the hostility swole? Can't we agree to disagree. Does everything have to turn into a **** flame war around here when someone has a difference of opinion.

But a bunch of little children.

I agree with Kim.. I never said they were a must, but they can be beneficial.

[usualsuspect]

Okaybe..in laymens terms: swole should help be able to help cypher the big words.


You see suspect- for short term intermittent maximal exercises and resistance training -- the type of training we are speaking of.. when short, but maximal exercises are performed with sufficient rest and in low quantities, it has been shown that it is the creatine-phosphate system that becomes the most taxed [7]. As soon as we either a) dramatically increase lifts, b) decreased the rest intervals to very short times, or c) make recovery active in nature, or d) more than o*ne of these combined, the protocal changes.

When we do this the body is forced to go past the very limited stores of creatine-phosphate and turn to glucose/glycogen for energy. So, just like the endurance athletes, low carbohydrate levels can impair performance in sprinters, weightlifters, middle distance runners, and just about anyone who lifts should see that even though weight training types of activities probably will not normally reach as deep into the reserves as endurance training, but let’s remember the low carbohydrate diets of today and how they have become a part of bodybuilding.


wow...

Thanks for the copy and paste job Valmont but manipulating creatine-phosphate's in your system is not what we're after here. When cutting our main goal is to limit insulin spikes and rise in blood sugar levels to only certain times of the day. Before training is not one of those times where nutrients are handled most efficiently.
However, if you continue to feel the neccessity to have carbs before working out by all means continue doing so. But next time you come on here advising someone to keep their glycogen levels high during moderate to high physical activity make sure to announce that your response is based on personal experience and that you really have no idea what the hell your talking about. Thanks...it will prevent a lot of confusion in the Diet Section.

~US~

[usualsuspect]

I completely concur that you obvioulsy can't grasp this idea do your remedial education level. You and swoles opinions are not the only ones.

LOl Holy crap I just fell of my chair...Okay, let me guess- You're one of those guys with a college degree (I would be very surprised since you can't even spell the word "due") that actually thinks having a little technical background (I bet you were a role-model student right? Congratulations for your hard work lol) qualifies you as a someone thats capable of rattling off a referenced study and then crediting it as your own. "Well this guy must know what he's talking about, after all he has a bachelor's degree in chemical engineering." What a joke you are. Just so you know...a college degree doesn't mean crap and doesn't guarantee you respect (maybe amongst your family but that about it). You have to earn respect. Something you have failed to do on this board.

And for the record...I'm nine credits away from a BA degree in Economics from a 4-year public university (ranks as one of the best biz schools on the east coast). But like I said that doesn't mean **** in the real world.

[SwoleCat]

I was going to holler "copy/paste" myself, as you could have edited that a bit so as to not have it so dayum obvious.

No Valmont, I am not saying what I say or U.S. says is final. I am saying that it has real world experience and validity, and more real world application than your control c and v executions do.

Not to mention you are able to view us and what we know in each post. Nothing compares to proving education/learning/knowledge about the said subject when you post visual proof. If that ain't enough, visit my V.X. Wall of Fame.

~SC~

[rambo]

The word "touche" doesn't connote a flame. It's just a word to indicate an opposite response. I'm getting tired of this ****, whenever someone doesn't like an answer they get, they start getting upset. THis is a board for learning. It's an intellectually safe place. If you are wrong, you admit it. No one is infallible.