Interested in learning a fighting technique

[LeanMeOut]

Hey guys.....

I have been interested in learning a fighting technique for a long time now. I have been looking into it more and more and can't make up my mind which training I would like to enroll in. For all you fighters out there, what is a good place to start? I have been looking into Judo & Kick Boxing thus far.


<<LMO>>

[LeanMeOut]

Bump.....

[KAEW44]

If your a persont that always liked punches and kicks in movies then find a kickboxing or muay thai training place and i'm sure you'll love it plus its a great cardio workout it will help keep your body fat down without having to diet extra , and also improves your range of motion/flexibility when you practice kicks.

If however you want to learn how to effectively finish a fight or you are thinking of competing in No hold barred type fights then i would recommend the complete opposite of what i said above..i would recommend you join a gym that specialized in submission fighting/grappling or brazilian jiu jitsu specifically. Judo is very similar to jiu jitsu but the problem with judo is that the influence of it being an olympic sport has really made it a 'point-sport' instead of an extreme martial art.

I personally trained kickboxing an Muay Thai for a long time, and it is awesome and intimidating to be able to fight liek that, but then when i stared doing no hold barred i realized that only the boxing part of the stand-up was useful to me...the rest of it is being able to grapple on the ground and submit your opponent. I still train muay Thai because the conditioning is great, but i focus more on my grappling/wrestling and ground work.

[Grappler_Mike]

Boxing
Kickboxing
Muy Thai
Brazillian Ju Jitsu(or any submission grappling)
Greco Roman Wrestling

Dont bother with anything else ,trust me on this.

[bermich]

Grappling is todays fighting technique. Brazilian jujitsu.
The flying kicks and the karate crap works in the movies but in real life, putting somoene in a choke hold until they get the sense to leave you alone is far easier than trying to connect with several punches to the guys face.

Stay away from kickboxing and Muy Thai unless you plan on staying in it for years. Mui Thai is not something you become proficient in over night. You need to build up your abs and lats like a super human. You need to start kicking the oak tree in your back yard until you kill all the nerves in your legs.
Guys who are proficient at muy thai are usually bad asses. They will knee your face in until you wake up in the hospital.

[BOUNCER]

Grappling is todays fighting technique. Brazilian jujitsu.
The flying kicks and the karate crap works in the movies but in real life, putting somoene in a choke hold until they get the sense to leave you alone is far easier than trying to connect with several punches to the guys face.

Stay away from kickboxing and Muy Thai unless you plan on staying in it for years. Mui Thai is not something you become proficient in over night. You need to build up your abs and lats like a super human. You need to start kicking the oak tree in your back yard until you kill all the nerves in your legs.
Guys who are proficient at muy thai are usually bad asses. They will knee your face in until you wake up in the hospital.

Your so wrong in almost everything you wrote there!.

Grappling is todays fighting technique..

While the ability to grapple is another feather to your arrow, its not todays fighting technique. On the street its an expremly dangerous position to put yourself into, simply because your in your enemies stabbing/biting/gouging etc range. The street fight wants to stay on his feet.

Stay away from kickboxing and Muy Thai unless you plan on staying in it for years

Wrong again (Sorry Berm I'm not disagreeing with you for the sake of it). But like grappling MT and Kickboxing should be seen as another feather to your arrow. I believe the complete fighter is the MT/BJJ or Kickboxer/Judo player who is experience in some Vale Tudo events.

Basically what KAEW44 said is on the money. But I'd like to know from Leanmeout if he's attracted to a traditional style or a sports system where competition in a full/light contact style is more practiced.

[LeanMeOut]

Thanks for the replies guys....


Bouncer:


I am interested in the sport to have light/full contact competetions, but I also want in it for the street fighting abilities. Over the last few years I have been in a few street fights, some went my way others didn't. Either way in both fights I have won & lost somehow I seem to get injured, and I want to learn how to fight and be in control. Ever since I got bigger and started lifting it seems more and more people get intimidated by my size, but then there are those who see my size and think they need to challenge me. I am usually one who would walk away from a fight because that is just me and I am a calm person, but sometimes walking away isn't an option as we all know.

After you posted I start to check out Muy Thai Kick Boxing and Brazilian jujitsu. It seems to be a great combination of things I could use in a fight. However like you said Bouncer, I don't want to be on the ground in a street fight unless it is absolutely necessary.

Thanks again for your help everyone

<<LMO>>

[BOUNCER]

Ok well for street fighting MT, Kickboxing, BJJ etc will always give you the edge over the untrained fighter. But Vale Tudo is the closest your going to come to street fighting IMO. Only thing we can't replicate in the dojo is the raw aggression you get in a typical street fight, but whatever style you choose you'll have an edge over the vast majority of assailants. Plus you'll learn to respect yourself and others, you'll learn how to aware of your surroundings etc and you'll learn the ability to learn when your in danger and how to escape from confrontion. Its better to 'jaw, jaw than war, war'!. Read what Chicamohomico (or whatever way that d*mn name is spelt!) wrote about the price of fighting!.

[chicamahomico]

BOUNCER covered everything you need to know but I wanted to ask you a couple of questions.

1.) Do you live in a major metropolitan area?
2.) How much time do you have to dedicate to learning an art? Both in the short term and the long term. (ie short run = days or weeks, and long run = months or years)
3.) What is your budget? Some MMA dojos are $$$, depending on where you live.

[LeanMeOut]

BOUNCER covered everything you need to know but I wanted to ask you a couple of questions.

1.) Do you live in a major metropolitan area?
2.) How much time do you have to dedicate to learning an art? Both in the short term and the long term. (ie short run = days or weeks, and long run = months or years)
3.) What is your budget? Some MMA dojos are $$$, depending on where you live.

I live in Las Vegas
I am a college student and I work part time but I have time to spend almost every night of the week to train. I would love to learn the art and be in it long term. It is somethign I have always wanted to do. Not only to be able to walk into a place and know I'll walk out, but also to learn to respect myself and others more than I already do. Most people I have talked to have told me that is what I'll learn.
Budget isn't really too big of an issue, but I don't want to go crazy either. I don't know how much it typically costs? What have you guys paid a month for training?


<<LMO>>

[HeavyHitter]

See i have to agree w/ Bermich on this one. No offense to the martial arts people, but in a street fight, that $hit only works in the movies. If you ask anybody where a fight always ends up, they will tell you on the ground. I also wrestled my whole life so i have a natural love for it! (besides all the karate guys ive seen get beat up too)

Bouncer: i wasnt sure what you meant by bad position while being on the ground. If somebody is going to stabb you, they could very easily do it standing up as well. biting- (tyson fight). the rest is standard street fighting possibilities.... There nothing better then knowing how to handle yourself when on the ground.

although i will agree the best art would probably be boxing or maybe muay thai in my opinion but only if they have been training for a long time. great workout.

Leanmeout- Depending on what you want to do... compete: listen to bouncer to protect yourself: i would get a good base in boxing to start- something simple if you a newcomer

[Aku]

any art, be it martial arts, boxing or even any type of sport, can not be as good as the "individual"...what I'm saying is, its not the art, its the individual who absorbs its theory its science its essence....
juijitso had and still has Royce Gracie, he made grappling an art...then you have guys out there who out ranks him in years, and level and yet are not even close to his caliber.
again, you have Bruce lee, founder of his own art, a man who magnified martial arts to another level, and then you have guys who do his art and yet accomplish his "method"...it is the individual...not the art.

[Aku]

in other words.
ALL ART IS AS GOOD AS THE ARTIST.

[KAEW44]

I kind of agree with Aku to some extent...you could learn the deadliest art in the world but if your a coward or if your in very bad shape then its not going to do you much good, however i still stick with the thoery that kickboxers and grapplers can destroy any other martial artists.

[GQ-Bouncer]

Bouncer: i wasnt sure what you meant by bad position while being on the ground. If somebody is going to stabb you, they could very easily do it standing up as well. biting- (tyson fight). the rest is standard street fighting possibilities.... There nothing better then knowing how to handle yourself when on the ground.

ummm.. you don't ever want to actually be on the ground in a street-fight, I have -many- times knocked out violent patrons by punts to the head after they fall down

in my personal opinion, having been in plenty of street fights, i would suggest to anybody kickboxing - i have used every technique with the exception of the sidekick, elbows and highroundhouse kick.

LeanMeOut - I would also suggest you go sign up to one of those shady nightclubs in vegas, nothing beats experience

[Jack87]

Just curious how you bros would compare Aikido
with everythnig else? To me Aikido and Muy Thai
would be a perfect combo of styles to use...

[KAEW44]

Aikido is only good if you learned from someone really good and you trained super hard so that your aikido reflexes become like a sixth sense. If however you only train it for a little bit or not so seriously i think it will be your downfall in a fight.

Muay thai i smy game of choice when it comes to striking, its brutal and it works, but still limited if someone tries to deck you and put you to the ground.

[chicamahomico]

Living in Vegas you will likely be able to find a dojo of any art you wish to try. A buddy of mine recently went down there to train for a few weeks at Machado's and only had good things to say. If BJJ interests you check these guys out.

I live in Las Vegas
I am a college student and I work part time but I have time to spend almost every night of the week to train. I would love to learn the art and be in it long term. It is somethign I have always wanted to do. Not only to be able to walk into a place and know I'll walk out, but also to learn to respect myself and others more than I already do. Most people I have talked to have told me that is what I'll learn.
Budget isn't really too big of an issue, but I don't want to go crazy either. I don't know how much it typically costs? What have you guys paid a month for training?


<<LMO>>

[GQ-Bouncer]

here's another way of looking at it leanmeout

(okay just try to stay with me, it's kinda wierd)

everybody on the planet has a certain type of skeleton, bruce lee for example has a light skeletal and ectomorphic complex, which allowed him his speed - Mike Tyson has a heavy skeletal structure and is mesomorphic, allowing him his power and ability to take continual punishment

now, say you had a saint bernard, lets name him "scruffy", now, lets say you train scruffy everyday to sprint 100 metres, unfortunely scruffy, as hard as he trys would never be able to beat a greyhound in a race

Bruce Lee himself confessed with Muhammad Ali, that in a boxing match, Ali would win everytime - henceforth his studies of Jeet Kune Do were correct in that his teachings of letting the individual find what works for him

So if your a taller, well built guy i'd suggest (kick)boxing so you atleast get used to the infamous and all important counterpunch and learn to use chainpunching combinations

if your a smaller guy, i guess your screwed

[einstein1905]

Although there are certainly exceptions, the predominance of grappling in MMA today has a lot more to do with it being much more easy to become relatively efficient in far less time. The striking arts have fallen out of favor, because, frankly, there aren't many people that can execute decently. The vast majority of kicks and punches thrown are grossly telegraphed (again, there are exceptions), btu don't let others' inadequacies dictate your opinion on the style/technique itself. Even many pro boxers have awful technique and little power (due to poor technique).

BJJ is extremely efficient to learn (at least the basics) compared to comparable skill level in a striking-oriented art, so it'll be much more rewarding early on, but once one becomes proficient with their hands, feet, knees and elbows, that's one hell of an empowring feeling too

[GQ-Bouncer]

Einstien, your opening a big can of worms

is it easier to submit or knock out?

allthough the gracies say that it's easier to pound and submit when they lose focus, CroCrop has proven time and time again, it's easier to knockout and have only defensive knowledge of BJJ (by def-knowledge i mean escaping to the standup)

also, i assume leanmeout, when he says "fighters" he's talking both tournament and street - sleeperholds and clinches are the only grappling streetfighters should have IMO

[einstein1905]

Nobody that has any real experience in both grappling and striking would disagree with me. I didn't say it's easier to KO someone than it is to submit them or vice versa. I said it's much easier to become relatively proficient in grappling than it is to become proficient in striking. Very few MMA competitors are skilled strikers. I don't care how many years they claim to have trained MT or any other striking style. Rutten was an example of a skilled striker. His ability to generate torque from such short distances with no telegraphing was beautiful. His strikes from all different angles and well put together combinations were impeccable. his ability to cut off the ring and use proper angles was almost unmatched. HE was a striker. Not these big dumb bastards that throw haymakers. Anybody worth their salt can counter or evade that crap. what I'm saying is that in 1-2 years time, you'll never approach the skill level of a Rutten, but you could become a very proficient grappler, so it makes more sense for someone to focus on grappling and try to take their fights to the ground.
it's not fair to say that grappling is better than striking, as it's all about the individual, and currently there are really no really good strikers out there. It just takes so many years to hone good striking skills and to learn how to apply them situationally.

Einstien, your opening a big can of worms

is it easier to submit or knock out?

allthough the gracies say that it's easier to pound and submit when they lose focus, CroCrop has proven time and time again, it's easier to knockout and have only defensive knowledge of BJJ (by def-knowledge i mean escaping to the standup)

also, i assume leanmeout, when he says "fighters" he's talking both tournament and street - sleeperholds and clinches are the only grappling streetfighters should have IMO

[GQ-Bouncer]

my apologies for comming off strong einstien, it wasn't my intent to put words in your mouth, thank you for making it clearer

I disagree however with your statement that there are no really good strikers out there, as an example, look at "Ernesto Hoost"(K1) or Mike Tyson,

but than again, i'm not talking about MMA, so my point is crushed

[einstein1905]

my apologies for comming off strong einstien, it wasn't my intent to put words in your mouth, thank you for making it clearer

I disagree however with your statement that there are no really good strikers out there, as an example, look at "Ernesto Hoost"(K1) or Mike Tyson,

but than again, i'm not talking about MMA, so my point is crushed

Hoost is decent, and Tyson is (was) amazing. If anyone hasn't seen Tyson during his '85-'89 fights, then watch him and learn how punches are thrown, and also WHEN to throw punches. Tyson dipping down to throw hooks to the body to counter jabs was so **** pretty. his head movement was extremely good, and his knack for utilizing appropriate angles was in a league of its own. if you want to talk strikers outside of MMA, then Trinidad is another excellent example....amazing balance and skills comparable to Rutten in terms of torque generated over short distances and nontelegraphed.

I saw where someone had compared Tank Abbott's punchin gpower to that of Tyson in a previous thread. that scares me that people can even think that. there is no comparison between some sloppy heavy-handed looping haymakers (that may have some pop) and puches that are more or less linear (with just slightly varied delivery angles) that are fueled by real torque from the trunk and explosion off of the back leg. Real punches (jabs included) are all about transferring bodyweight from the back leg to the punching shoulder in the most efficient way possible.....creating torque at the trunk....the arm/fist merely delivers the force. Boxing and MMA today is just riddled with arm punches....it's nauseating.

[BOUNCER]

Einstein, great reading thanks. You put it perfect, its late here and I've just glaced through what you wrote, I'm coming back to it tomorrow and feel I'll be using those words of explaination to some class's pretty soon.

[KAEW44]

Einstien great perspective and very correct, having done martial arts for a long time i personally dont do them to defend myself on the street, on the street i depend on avoiding the situation altogether or using very illegal and unconventional methods of finishing a fight or at least keeping an aggressor off me!

As for competition! wich i do a lot, that really needs for you to improve every aspect of your game in order to become a great fighter....the entire purpose of MMA these days is to be a complete athlete and well rounded in everything. I was a striker for a long time and then i started learning grappling because in MMA competition its not possible to get through with the Cro-Cop high kick in every fight!!! You have to be good at striking (effectively like einstien has explained) instead of just swinging when yoru in trouble...you also need to have good takedowns incase your being dominated in the stand up, and also takedown defense if your on the other side of the table.
You must be able to work on your back or on top because both are very different and both put you in different risks of being knocked out or submitted.

Well rounded fighters (eg-quinton jackson) manage to come through because they use everything they know and dont stick to just one thing....sticking to one thing can get you in trouble...

Gracie example: These guys introduced jiu jitsu to teh united states by starting the UFC thmselves and beating very one-dimentional fighters in a game only they knew well!! By doing that they managed to start a chain of affiliated acadmies all over the world and make tond of money!! However, by insisting on only using Jiu-Jitsu style fighting in MMA...they gave the chance for everyone to improve and evolve in a way that caused all gracies to be crushed in competition these days!!!

Cro-Cop example: Not only is he a good striker but his size and strength make him a very intimidating opponent....Pride competition built him up slowley against opponents that were having a 'career crisis' at the time (saku, herring, fujita, vov) and by doing that they made him more than what he really was!! Cro-Cop wasnt stupid though he continued to work on his grappling just incase he needed it some day. He had his losses due to arrogance, but he will continue to be a force now that he is patching up the holes in his game.

Vanderlei silva is a guy that insists on KO'ing his opponents but int he few times he was actually taken down....he showed us that he was more than capable and a truly complete fighter!!


Conclusion...work on everything, and dont stop till your great at everything

[LeanMeOut]

WOW I wish I would have come back sooner to clarify lol. I am not really interested in competing at this point, I just want to learn how defend myself better and be confidant in risky situations. It is nice to know that when you walk into a situation you will be one who walks out. I am not into street fighting, but you guys know that being bigger tends to have more people F*ck with you. I know it does with me atleast.

Competing I might consider after training for a while, if I was a natural at it or if I felt I had the skills to compete I would consider it at a later time. Basically this is jsut something I want to learn to better myself and be able to defend myself in bad situations that may arrise


<<LMO>>

[GQ-Bouncer]

kickboxing or boxing man,

you'll rarely meet a boxer who can't take a punch

[LeanMeOut]

kickboxing or boxing man,

you'll rarely meet a boxer who can't take a punch

Yea kick boxing & BBJ seem to be the way to go..... I have looked around the area and there are tons of places to train in both BBJ & MTKB. So I am going to down and check out a few places and find out prices etc and see what kind of time I can commit to it and go from there. Thanks for all your help guys


<<LMO>>

[BOUNCER]

kickboxing or boxing man,

you'll rarely meet a boxer who can't take a punch

Frank Bruno couldn't!.

[Div1Wrestler]

A well rounded fighter is the goal your looking for.. yes boxing is good , wrestling and submission are good.. 15 years of ring time is out the window when sparring with a abled grappler and equally about the grappler trading with a boxer... The importance of cross training is sooooo important.... Its not whats "the Best".... Its how can I become "the best"....
Example... wrestling is my thing, my life, my bread and butter..Training and sparring with submission guys I fell in to alot of things and got beat... So I learned submission now I use my wrestling for my gain in combo with submission... I did the same with the stiking... boxing was 1st , now Kickboxing.. you will never take the wrestler out of me, But Im a more rounded fighter..

[bermich]

Your so wrong in almost everything you wrote there!.



While the ability to grapple is another feather to your arrow, its not todays fighting technique. On the street its an expremly dangerous position to put yourself into, simply because your in your enemies stabbing/biting/gouging etc range. The street fight wants to stay on his feet.



Wrong again (Sorry Berm I'm not disagreeing with you for the sake of it). But like grappling MT and Kickboxing should be seen as another feather to your arrow. I believe the complete fighter is the MT/BJJ or Kickboxer/Judo player who is experience in some Vale Tudo events.

Basically what KAEW44 said is on the money. But I'd like to know from Leanmeout if he's attracted to a traditional style or a sports system where competition in a full/light contact style is more practiced.

Im confused here. I mention BJJ is a form he should learn, yet you say I am wrong and then YOU later explain how BJJ is an art he should learn? What part was I wrong about.
He asked which ONE ART should he learn. I pointed out that typical karate with its kicks is a bad idea.

I also mentioned mui thai is a good art but takes YEARS and YEARS of practice to be good at. You said I was wrong again and then you stated the fighter should have mui thai incorporated into it. I dont get what you are throwing at me.

Sure, if the guy who started this thread has the time to take up 3 different arts at once, then YOUR POST is RIGHT ON TRACK. Mui thai, judo, kickboxing, BBJ, and vejo all at once would be great for the SUPERHUMAN to take all at once.
Now back to reality: WHICH ONE would be best?

I still dont see why you knit-pick most of my posts. Maybe the political threads are too much for ya

[BOUNCER]

Grappling is todays fighting technique.

Its not, I'll repeat what I said earlier. Grappling is an extremly dangerous position to find yourself in on the street because your open to all sorts of attacks be it bites, stabbings, bottles etc..

Neither is it ''Todays fighting technique''. Its actually one of the oldest, it was one of the original events in the first olympic games. BUT the ability to grapple is very important. But I believe its more important to defend your striking position, its also easier to make an exit on the street at the earliest oppertunity.

Karate, yup most suck but I won't go down the road of mocking someone else's style.

[GQ-Bouncer]

I sure will,

karate, tae kwon do, ninjitsu, etc - are the most useless fighting styles... ever.

oh i'm wrong? hey, name 1 recent UFC, PRIDE or K1 champion who was a karate-guy? (btw, andy hug doesn't count, unless you call karate kickboxing)

and as for street-fighting, the gentleman who wins tends to be the one who wants to kill you more (not which one is the most spirtually enlightened)

[einstein1905]

I sure will,

karate, tae kwon do, ninjitsu, etc - are the most useless fighting styles... ever.

oh i'm wrong? hey, name 1 recent UFC, PRIDE or K1 champion who was a karate-guy? (btw, andy hug doesn't count, unless you call karate kickboxing)

and as for street-fighting, the gentleman who wins tends to be the one who wants to kill you more (not which one is the most spirtually enlightened)

To say that any of the martial arts is inferior is wrong....it has little to do with the art and much to do with the individual. In all my years competing (TKD, boxing, wrestling, MT, am. kickboxing, and eventually MMA), I was always the same person/fighter. Just because you're fighting in a TKD tournament, doesn't mean you have to fight like the majority of the fighters. You're limited by the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean that you HAVE to go out there throwing goofy butterfly kicks and impractical spinning high kicks all the time. My style didn't change (other than conforming to the rules) when I fought TKD or kickboxing. It's all about the practicioner...not the "art". The art merely serves as a base, a foundation, for developing balance, hand and foot speed, and footwork. You're not obligated to be a rigid fighter just because karate was your base....or to be a offense-oriented flamboyant kicker just because your a TKD competitor

[Aku]

Now there is true wisdom here.....
I agree with you einstein 100%

To say that any of the martial arts is inferior is wrong....it has little to do with the art and much to do with the individual. In all my years competing (TKD, boxing, wrestling, MT, am. kickboxing, and eventually MMA), I was always the same person/fighter. Just because you're fighting in a TKD tournament, doesn't mean you have to fight like the majority of the fighters. You're limited by the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean that you HAVE to go out there throwing goofy butterfly kicks and impractical spinning high kicks all the time. My style didn't change (other than conforming to the rules) when I fought TKD or kickboxing. It's all about the practicioner...not the "art". The art merely serves as a base, a foundation, for developing balance, hand and foot speed, and footwork. You're not obligated to be a rigid fighter just because karate was your base....or to be a offense-oriented flamboyant kicker just because your a TKD competitor

[Aku]

Also, lets use the gun as an example....any one can shoot at a target...but to aim, to breathe, and the acknowledgment of the wind...that is a person who can hit a target...it is the individual, not the art.

[GQ-Bouncer]

individual and art goes hand in hand

(kick)boxers are trained to be tough as nails, and that's the "art" of there training, where as karate there trained to become more one with the body

[einstein1905]

individual and art goes hand in hand

(kick)boxers are trained to be tough as nails, and that's the "art" of there training, where as karate there trained to become more one with the body

No, those are generalizations. There are "soft" kickboxers out there, and there are many, many nontraditional karate, TKD, hapkido, etc schools that really don't focus as much on the traditional aspects anymore. fewer and fewer schools are remaining conformed to the ancient stereotypes of their respective styles.....and even beyond that, the individual practicioner still has the ability to be a nonconformist too

[Aku]

Look, lets end it this way....the martial arts was once one. So why not see it still as one, and not the other.
We have to admit it is the individual that excels the art.
Lets just keep the art as it is, the art.
The art of self defense.