Thread: Tysons still the GREATEST!
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07-31-2004, 12:07 PM #1
Tysons still the GREATEST!
Mike is still the greatest champion to ever step in the ring with the exception of Muhammed Ali. Im gonna put Roy Jones up there with him too. Mike can kick Williams azz (even though he lost in 4 lastnight ), Lennox Lewis's azz and anyone else in the heavyweight division for that matter. At 38, its not fair to say he washed up. Of course he's not at his best, but not washed up. Instead, I think mike just doesnt have the urge/desire to win anymore. He can care less about having the belt. the only reason he would want the belt is to make more money as the champion instead of having the belt to say " hey, im the best at this buisness",...he has no respect for the boxing industry or the belt. He knows the cons, the ropes and allt the "Bs" that we as outsiders dont get to see. Its like for us who have played football. Yoor highschool coach always said youll never play another football game like you do in highschool because from college on, its all politics. Same in Mike's case, its not fun anymore. AS a kid he was at his best becasue it was something he found in which he was good at, wanted to get better, and call himself the best..Just so happen, money came along with it but money wasnt the intial drive..Now,..its about the money,..**** the title belt....At 38, if he truly wanted to beat these guys to be considered the king of the ring, he could,..but,..without that desire,..he will continue to have these upsets like with williams. Regardless,..Mike Tyson is still "Iron Mike Tyson " and the rank #2 in my book as the greatest boxer.
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07-31-2004, 12:28 PM #2
My Man Is Done.... But He Is Still My Dawg
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07-31-2004, 12:35 PM #3Junior Member
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He was stupid for fighting yesterday, I saw him hop on the bench on one leg on Friday during training and I thought it wasnt serious then the dude steps in the ring and tears his ligament in the FIRST round and he DIDNT say a **** thing about it, its his own fault but this knockout is a whole sham, its the same thing they did with Lennox Lewis and Rahman, hopefully one more fight will handle his debt then he can stop taking bribes and falls and fight like he really wants to.
Fact is Tyson has taken bribes throughout his career, he has a 20 million dollar debt, one more fight should cover this then we should get the real Tyson back.
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08-01-2004, 10:52 AM #4
keep the hope alive Makaveli,..lol. I dont know guy..out of the 8 million he made on this fight,..he only got to keep 2. His next fight may be less in profit since he has dropped in rank,...picture that,.." Mike Tyson dropping in rank',..what the hell has the world come to.
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08-01-2004, 11:37 AM #5
PLEASE!!!
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08-01-2004, 11:55 PM #6LM1332 Guest
he was seen leavign a hospital in a wheel chair he sucks and nutz
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08-02-2004, 07:13 AM #7AR Hall of Fame
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He used to be my fav in 1990............Let's face it, Mike Tyson is not Mike Tyson. He's some tatooed Dennis Rodman influenced psychotic freak.
His fighting days are over, he should look for a job at Target!
~SC~
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08-02-2004, 07:59 AM #8Originally Posted by animal-inside
D
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08-02-2004, 01:17 PM #9
Like I said boys, he;s still the greatest next to Ali, the only work he needs with target is targeting heads.
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08-02-2004, 02:42 PM #10Junior Member
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Tyson should not even be put in the same category as Ali....he was good......but not a great like Ali,Frazier,Liston,Foreman,Holyfield.......he has never won against the best fighters he has ever faced.....therefor how can he be put into that category of being the greatest next to Ali.......Tyson wont even be able to fight a top heavy weight or get paid in the millions anymore until he can redeem himself......it has already been said that he will have to take couple hundred thousand pay days and fight mediocre fighters until he can show that he's able to be a top contender.......Tyson is simply out boxed against a good heavy weight........
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08-02-2004, 02:58 PM #11
he would have knocked out frazier, liston and foreman. Foreman himself said he doesnt compare to tyson.
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08-02-2004, 03:15 PM #12Junior Member
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Originally Posted by nickrizz
What makes you think he would KO any of these guys......he has not ever KO'ed an opponent of these guys caliber.........as far as Foreman goes I think I recall an interview where he said it was sad that they were putting Tyson in against people like they are just because he is Tyson and watching him get beat up.He said he would not fight Tyson at "tysons" current level.........I think in all of their priime Tyson and Frazier would have been a good fight.....not sure who would win this one........Foreman and Tyson I think Foreman would have devisated Tyson going blow for blow........ Liston and Tyson would have been a good fight giving the edge to Liston......Ali would have jus out boxed Tyson much like Holyfield........And even in Tyson vs. Foreman current state I think Foreman would put Tyson out........I just can't believe that he would KO these fighters mentioned above when he has not yet KO'ed the best fighters he has faced.......
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08-03-2004, 03:41 AM #13
Did any of you acctualy see the fight ? I did on PPV . First of all , williams was almost down in round 1 , but tyson could not get close to him because he tore his knee ligament in that same round. 2nd of all in round 2 , williams hits tyson 2 seconds after the bell right on his eye , result he has a cut eye . Tyson could not walk anymore and thats the only reason williams beated him. If tyson didnt tore his knee ligament and if williams didnt hit him after the bell , william was so ****ed.
And no im not a tyson fan.
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08-03-2004, 09:00 AM #14Originally Posted by nickrizz
Listen guys. Holyfirld, Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis,..all those guys ducked mike his entire carrer until he went to prison and came out. After almost 4 years in prison, he faught 4 fights and then went for the championship against holyfield, looseing we all know. History repeats its self. Ali had a 3 1/2 year layoff when he was stripped of his title and suspended from boxing for refusiong to go into the miltiary Vietam. He came back, had 3 fights and fought Joe Frazier for the champion,..loosing the same as Tyson did. He then returned to beat frazier 2 times after that. I think mike would have beat Evander that 2nd fight if evander didnt keep head butting him like he did in the first fight, pissing mike off and causing him to bite his ear. Another keys factor. Lewis and Mike started boxing at the same agae. Mike became the undisputed champion at 20. Lennox became it at 33-34,..it took him 14 years to accomplish the things mike did in a few. You do the math.
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08-03-2004, 09:02 AM #15Originally Posted by SaTyR
You hit it right on the head SatyR.....
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08-03-2004, 10:08 AM #16Junior Member
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[QUOTE=Cuttup]
I think mike would have beat Evander that 2nd fight if evander didnt keep head butting him like he did in the first fight, pissing mike off and causing him to bite his ear.
Would of could of....but he didn't!!!!!Tyson fans will continue to make excuses for the man forever.......mark my words Tyson will lose more fights in the future than he is going to win if it is against top heavyweights.........it dont matter though if he loses 4 out of his next 5 fights there will be excuses made for the four he lost.......why not give props to the fighters that beat him!!!!!When its all said and done these fighters that beat him beat him period......i'm gonna post a few more things on Tyson from another post I have already posted then I will let this die......to each there own....
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08-03-2004, 10:22 AM #17Junior Member
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Here are a few tidbits to read........
I've always believed that who a fighter beat and how he faired versus the best fighters he faced spoke volumes about him. A careful review of Tyson's record clearly points out that the two best fighters he ever fought, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, both stopped him. Think about that, Tyson is 0-3 against the best fighters he ever fought. A strong case can be made that Tyson is more known for his loses than his wins. How many all time great fighters can that be said about?
Another thing I never understood was the excuses many fans afforded Tyson when he lost. It was never what his opponent did to beat him, it was always because of what Tyson didn't do. In other words, only Tyson had any say in the outcome of the fight.
Three or four of his successful title defenses were against fighters that Larry Holmes stopped more than a couple years earlier. Yet when Tyson stopped those same fighters it was viewed as a monumental feat. Tyson also paid Lennox Lewis step aside money to clear the path for him to fight Bruce Seldon in 1996. Could anybody even fathom Ali paying George Foreman step aside money to clear the way for him to fight Henry Cooper? I'll answer that, Hell no. Ali could've never lived that down, yet Tyson does it and is provided excuses by his fans.
Evander Holyfield is the fighter of Tyson’s era he is most measured against. When Tyson fought Holyfield the first time, Holyfield was coming off of the two worst fights of his career to date, yet he stopped Tyson. The Holyfield who stopped Tyson hadn't won a fight by stoppage in five years. In their rematch, Tyson was losing and feared being stopped for the second consecutive time by Holyfield. So he bit both of Holyfield’s ears, later claiming retaliation for Holyfield head-butting him. Much to my amazement, there was a large faction of Tyson fans who actually bought his pitiful excuse.
Muhammad Ali lost the first time he fought his most bitter rival, Joe Frazier. Could anyone fathom Ali biting Frazier in their rematch because he was losing to him again? No way would Ali have had the excuses made for him by his fans that Tyson's followers made.
What Tyson did when he bit Holyfield was quit. To me, that's worse than being knocked out. By quitting, Tyson was admitting defeat and admitting that Holyfield was the better fighter. The fact that Tyson quit against Holyfield erases all doubt as to who was the greater fighter. However, many Tyson fans will try and argue that Tyson was the better fighter, which defies all reason and logic, not to mention objectivity.
Another question that jumps out when evaluating Tyson's record is, who is the best fighter he beat? The names Holmes and Spinks are impressive, but when Tyson beat them they were well past their prime, all that remained was their great name. How about the names Tucker and Ruddock? Yes, the two best fighters Mike Tyson beat in his career are Tony Tucker and Razor Ruddock. When Tyson defeated them they were both two big strong young Heavyweight's at the top of their game. However, neither of them will ever be considered great fighters by any respected historian. Tyson fans always bring up his unique combination of power and hand speed, which was better than any other puncher in Heavyweight history. That being acknowledged, it still only carried him past Tucker and Ruddock.
At age 20 Mike Tyson became the youngest Heavyweight Champ in history. What is overlooked is the fact that Tyson has not defeated a fighter who could even be considered outstanding since two days before he turned 25. On June 28th, 1991, Tyson decisioned Razor Ruddock over 12 rounds. Ruddock is the last top fighter he beat. I ask, how many other great Heavyweight Champions "never" beat a top fighter after age 24? The answer would be -- not one.
When grading Tyson on pure physical skill and talent, he ranks among the best ever. Tyson's physical ability has never been questioned by any skeptic or critic. What Tyson lacked was the toughness and confidence that the fighters considered the greatest of the greats had in abundance. Tyson has never got up off the canvas to pull a fight out. And it can easily be argued that when he confronted fighters who weren't scared or intimidated by him, he lost.
Throughout his entire 19 year pro career, Mike Tyson has been one of the biggest draws in history, right up there with Dempsey, Louis, and Ali. The problem is that some confuse being an attraction with greatness. Many among the Tyson faction have argued over the years that Tyson is the greatest Heavyweight Champ in history, or that he could've been. Those who voice that opinion couldn't be more wrong.
Forget about opinions and excuses, the fact is Mike Tyson lost miserably to the best fighters he ever fought. He never beat a top fighter after his 24th birthday, and quit in the biggest redemption fight of his career, his rematch with Evander Holyfield. Most great fighters have that one signature win that defines their career and solidifies their greatness. Mike Tyson doesn't. Maybe it's me, but I thought a fighter had to win the big fights in order to be considered great? Not lose them with a pocket full of excuses.
Look, this is not a hatchet job on Mike Tyson, but the facts are the facts. He was a great fighter in his prime, make no mistake about that. I have no problem saying he ranks among the top 15 greatest Heavyweight Champions to date.
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08-03-2004, 10:23 AM #18Originally Posted by Cyto78
Now look back to Tyson circa 1985-1989.....NOBODY could have ever beaten him had he stayed as he was then. The Mike Tyson of today has nothing to do with the Tyson of that era. it wasn't just offense either...it was amazing head movement (bob and weave) with amazing power in his shots from the bob and weave.
Ali is held in such high regard more because he was a cultural/social icon.....he was a pretty good fighter, but I would never go beyond that. Sugar Ray Robinson was far better than Ali too. I guess when we say "better", it's unclear what we mean, but I'm saying (positively) that Tyson of 1985-1989 could have easily beat any heavyweight of any era......there really isn't much doubt.
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08-03-2004, 11:18 AM #19Originally Posted by einstein1905
But, im sure some of us don't need that cheat code
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08-03-2004, 11:24 AM #20
I AM A HUGE HUGE TYSON FAN, but.....
i believe tyson lost to holyfield fairly the first time, and he bit him because he knew he couldnt beat him the second time because holyfield was not afraid. could holyfield have beaten tyson before he lost to douglas, i doubt it but we'll never know.
Certain fighters become better with age (Lewis, holyfield), Tyson IS NOT ONE OF THEM!!!
Lewis beat tyson fairly, there is no excuse for tyson, no head butting, no torn ligaments. If tyson fought the same way he fought in round one against lewis he had the fight, but he runs out of steam very easily lately.
Tyson lost to williams fairly. Williams was a better fighter that night. Tyson may have torn his lateral miniscus, but holyfield had a friggin heart attack while fighting Bowe, so people have gone threw worst, its boxing.
In an interview on YES network foreman said he ranks tyson above him in heavyweight history. Tyson was ranked in foremans list above sonny liston, holyfield, foreman, and flyod patterson.
I think ali would have lost to Tyson because he hits harder than foreman and frazier and was 10x faster then both of them.
Also, tyson has one of the hardest chins. every time he was knocked out it wasnt one punch it was a flurry of unanswered heymakers.
another thing people forget is that tyson unified all of the titles, to become the undesputed champion (i think he did it twice but im not sure)
Like i said i think tyson was a great fighter, the best ever in his prime. but now he should retire. he is too short and light for the division.
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08-03-2004, 11:41 AM #21
Good post guys,..But here is the bottom line. There is only one person we can honestly say beat tyson when he was at his best/prime and even then we can make excuses which IMO are legit and reasonable excuses. That man is Buster Douglas. Mike was still the king of knockouts when he faught this guy but he had several things/demons that had the best of him. Not to mention when he knocked Buster Douglas down in the 6 or 7th round,..he was down for WELL over 10 seconds,..more like 12. Mike Had a rape charge on him at the time, had been going through the divorce with Robin Givens, has Don King robbing him in his face, An assult charge for supposedly hitting Robinto go along with his already lenthy record, his tainer and mentor Custimato just died weeks before. Mike started training just 2 weeks before the Buster fight coming in 12 lbs over his normal weight,..and not to mention,..he was a 21 or 22 year old kid with all these promblems,....The world on his shoulder. Buster Douglas on the other end had nothing to loose. He trained hard hos mother died a month earlier after a long fight with cancer, his sister was on her death bed a nd he swore he would wn for both of them. I remeber mike pacing back and forth before the fight and I said,.." Da*n,..Mike doesnt even have a sweat going on, that not good" Later we heard he was Piss drunk the night before.
As for him quiting against Holyfield,..you can save that for a person who knows nothing about fighting. Where Im from when a person gets dirty with you ( head butt ),...You get twice as dirty with them.. Its a natural reaction for some people and Mike being from Brooklyn,....You know if you dont fight fair in Brooklynn,..its time to duck. Infact, I dont think no one fight fair in Brooklyn,..lol...Im fnot from Brooklyn so im only going by hear say.
The rest of these guys who beat mike got Mike at his weakest,..3 1/2 years off here, 15 moths off here, 12 months off here, 17 months off here. I have know respect for any of them. Evander s a warrior, and I respect Danny Williams because he admitted before and after the fight the only reason he could and would beat mike was because Mike was 38 years old and not at his best, fighting only once/maybe twice every year or two,...' If mike was at his best I couldnt stand a chance "Last edited by Cuttup; 08-03-2004 at 11:44 AM.
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08-03-2004, 11:54 AM #22Associate Member
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Originally Posted by einstein1905
Cuttup: are you out of your mind saying that tyson can beat lennox lewis?! tyson is lucky that he is a pussy that couldnt stay up agains lewis, otherwise lewis would have caused permanant brain damage to that already unstable head of tysons...
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08-03-2004, 12:10 PM #23
CuttmeUp. Ive boxed since I was 12 years old. Ive followed all the boxers from lightweight to heavy weight my entire life. I think you forgot those first 8-10 years that Mike gave us. You're living by the present time. You dont remember the Lennox Lewis that ran from Riddick Bowe and Mike tyson back in the day. The Lewis who was knocked out the unqualified high in rank fighters like Ray Mercer, Hasseim Rahman and a few others. He's a punk, a runner. He ran from Holyfield and Tua the entire fight. If you sat around and studied Mike tyson for 15 years, you could beat him to,..kinda like the Roy Jones and Tarver fight. Lennox Lewis is a discrace to the sport and Tyson can still kick his ass.
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08-03-2004, 12:52 PM #24Originally Posted by CutMeUp
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08-03-2004, 03:37 PM #25Originally Posted by CutMeUp
You certainly don't have to consider someone's entire career to consider them the best of all time. what someone does before and after their peak is irrelevant. To compare fighters of entirely different eras, all you can fairly do is to compare their peaks. The fact is that Tyson during his peak was far better than anyone else at their peak
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08-03-2004, 03:48 PM #26Originally Posted by nickrizz
Frazier and Liston only have notoriety because of their fights with Ali. Frazier had a great left hook, no defense, and a mediocre right. Liston had.......??? Well, he had a title belt, but so did a lot of nobodies over the years/ Liston was good, not great. Foreman had power, albeit the worst arm-swinging punches ever, they were powerful.....his defense was to swing those big arms, and it worked, but that doesn't mean that even a semi-technical fighter couldn't pick him apart (Ali). If you watch the old Tyson fights, you'll see that he never gets hit, and many of his KOs are beautiful counters off the bob and weave. His combinations were incredibly efficient and his power with both hands was unmatched. Tyson from 89 on has nothing to do with the early Mike Tyson, who abandoned all technique and just coasted off of one punch power from then on
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08-03-2004, 05:36 PM #27
Also Tysons downfall isnt really due to other fighter becoming better than him, but more to do with his destructive lifestyle and all the issues he got himself into over the years, if someone could talk sense to him from the begining and make him listen then i think he would have still been as good as before.
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08-03-2004, 05:37 PM #28Associate Member
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sorry boss but I think this is a bunch of B.S. evander was killing tyson in fight #2 and would have beat the cra#@$$p out of him again it tyson didnt pull some bitch move and bite him ,the reason he bit him was because he knew he could not box with evander
Originally Posted by Cuttup
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08-03-2004, 06:41 PM #29
thank god nobody brought joe lous into this discussion (even though i am) i think he is so overerated and tyson wouldve knocked him out faster than marvis frasier
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08-08-2004, 09:54 AM #30Originally Posted by einstein1905
Very good,.I agree anymore.
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08-10-2004, 11:46 AM #31
i deffinatley agree with einstein, tyson at his prime is the best boxer of all time. ali never messed with anyone who had the tremendous knock out power of tyson. i love how cyto used the most bias article ever to support his tyson-bashing theory. how about these tidbits: youngest undesputed heavyweght champion ever(20 years old). record today of 50-5-0. first 40 something fights were all victories by knock out.(best knock out % ever in boxing). and i'm not sure but i think he holds the title for fastest knockout ever in a heavyweight match also(could be wrong though). it also makes it that much more amazing because he is only 5'10" and has no reach whatsoever, yet still managed to knock all these long armed mutherfockers out. tyson = best boxer ever in his prime. tyson now=corrupted by rigged fights, plagued with injury, and talking zoloft so he doesn't bite anyone else. i wish tyson was back to normal, but i don't think that will happen because he lost so much credibility in his last fight.
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08-10-2004, 12:30 PM #32
Einstein i do agree tyson was a machine in the late 80s
he was in great shape and he had great technique and
form I **** sure wouldnt of stepped in the ring with him
.
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08-10-2004, 04:10 PM #33
the zoloft is killing him, you cant fight the way he does and be a nice guy
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08-11-2004, 10:30 AM #34
He already supposedly has a rematch with Williams coming up.
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06-30-2005, 04:28 PM #35
a bump for Mike !
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06-30-2005, 05:07 PM #36
At the time of the Lewis-Tyson fight, noone was saying anything about age difference or that tyson hadnt been able to train like Lewis or any of the other hundreds of excuses. They all jumped on the Tyson bandwagon. But you saw what happened. Lewis is a smart fighter. Tyson couldnt even get in on em! Now Tyson is a baaaaaaad man. Ive always liked him. But he was a one punch, one-2 round fighter. Put Lewis and Tyson in there in their prime, and Id say Lewis would still win just because he'd keep Tyson at bay for the first few rounds, stay away with his long jabs, and when he got opportunites, lay into him. Get off the Tyson wagon just cuz he was powerful. Stop playing Punch-Out!!
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06-30-2005, 05:35 PM #37
How do you work out he was a 1-2 round puncher ?
Take a look at his record plenty of tko's after 5th round and u/d's
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07-01-2005, 12:49 PM #38Originally Posted by max2extreme
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07-01-2005, 12:49 PM #39Originally Posted by nickrizz
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07-02-2005, 04:17 AM #40
Tyson is my heavy wieght *** HERO ***and i will not deny he is a bad man for the things he has done in the last 10 or so years but the fact of it is he was the man of his era
no matter what what alot of you people think his record speaks for its self....Alot of the time you have to look at a boxer like you would a battery..it has a life spam and ounce you hit a certain age then Boom** thers no recharging.
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