Bruce Lee vs Royce Gracie

[marka]

I saw a documentary about bruce lee.........do you think he could kick butt in an Ulitmate Fighting match?

[Cycleon]

you have GOT to be kidding

[marka]

Umm, yes, ofcourse I was kidding

[Cycleon]

Bruce, if alive today, would still be able to beat almost anything in competition - his speed was insane and I know a few of his direct students and studied that - Bruce liked grappling I might add but felt that it didnt last long enough to go there - 1 hit and you were gone - well normally that was 3 or 4 hits nearly simultaneously

[marka]

I was curious about that. I kind of figured, but wondered if someone with grappling backround would be superior, as it has been proven in UF cages. Thanks for the reply.

[billy_ba]

bruce lee studied grappling but not on the level of technique that there is today. Modern grappling has evolved tremendously in the past 20 years. I would say that bruce lee could hang with someone his size during his time but in todays time, someone like bj penn would hand him his ass. If lee was alive today and trained todays techniques he would probably be the best at his weight. old lee vs new fighters, lee would lose every time.

[Sta11ion]

How much I like Bruce lee, he would be sent to school if he was brought in todays UFC fighters. But then again I am only going but what I saw with my eyes on TV. He could have some old training tech that were never shown. We might of involved in fighting tech but at the same time can you imagine the tech that were lost from thousands of years ago.

bruce lee studied grappling but not on the level of technique that there is today. Modern grappling has evolved tremendously in the past 20 years. I would say that bruce lee could hang with someone his size during his time but in todays time, someone like bj penn would hand him his ass. If lee was alive today and trained todays techniques he would probably be the best at his weight. old lee vs new fighters, lee would lose every time.

[calidude]

Bruce, if alive today, would still be able to beat almost anything in competition - his speed was insane and I know a few of his direct students and studied that - Bruce liked grappling I might add but felt that it didnt last long enough to go there - 1 hit and you were gone - well normally that was 3 or 4 hits nearly simultaneously

I'm going to agree with you. He was way to fast for anyone to take him down. The problem with take downs is that he would pull his punch/kick back before someone had a chance to take him. just my opinion..

[Cycleon]

but thats also because both of you are thinking that the fight will go to the ground - one thing that you cant get off of the TV is that Bruce would have hit the fighter a few times or simply kicked him once and that could have been enough to end it - his speed was far beyond what I can describe and you will find that they actually slowed down some of his movies so that you could see his hands move - I have trained with one of his students and have seen Ted Wong (Lee's only "pure" student in that he hadnt studied before that) in action and even I who know what to look for could barely see Teds hands move - and I kid you not, the man almost causually kicked a steel pole in the ground 6 feet from me and I could feel the ground vibrate underneath me - very scary dude but you will never see him fight unless you are in a small group

and lest you think its speed only not strength - only one of Bruce's students was large enough to hold a hand strike leather pad because bruce would punch and it would dislocate the holders arm. Think...the guy with the 1 inch punch that could knock a big guy back 3 feet - what do you think that his kick could do? Once you study the mechanics of what he did, you could appreciate that no one would be able to touch him, probably even today

[Juggernaut]

I'd say Gracie might stand a chance if he brought a gun.......I said might. hahahaha Bruce would kick ass while eating a bowl of soup and never spill a drop. Hell, I'll bet the ghost of Bruce could kick his ass. hahahahahaha

[Juggernaut]

- you will find that they actually slowed down some of his movies so that you could see his hands move -

That is a fact. No doubt about it.

[JdFlex]

- his speed was far beyond what I can describe and you will find that they actually slowed down some of his movies so that you could see his hands move -

I heard they had to slow down the film for his kicks too! The man was incredible. There's a jeet kun do school near my house and the guy that runs it was trained by a guy who was trained by Bruce. I attended a weekend seminar. This guy is incredible, his speed was unreal. He didn't look like much either. I'll bet all us juiceheads would see him on the street and think he's nothing. But he could scrap.

[justincredible]

but thats also because both of you are thinking that the fight will go to the ground - one thing that you cant get off of the TV is that Bruce would have hit the fighter a few times or simply kicked him once and that could have been enough to end it - his speed was far beyond what I can describe and you will find that they actually slowed down some of his movies so that you could see his hands move - I have trained with one of his students and have seen Ted Wong (Lee's only "pure" student in that he hadnt studied before that) in action and even I who know what to look for could barely see Teds hands move - and I kid you not, the man almost causually kicked a steel pole in the ground 6 feet from me and I could feel the ground vibrate underneath me - very scary dude but you will never see him fight unless you are in a small group

and lest you think its speed only not strength - only one of Bruce's students was large enough to hold a hand strike leather pad because bruce would punch and it would dislocate the holders arm. Think...the guy with the 1 inch punch that could knock a big guy back 3 feet - what do you think that his kick could do? Once you study the mechanics of what he did, you could appreciate that no one would be able to touch him, probably even today

In total agreement. The only way a Lee fight would end up on the ground is if Bruce Lee laid down on purpose to kick somebodys @ss! In the unlikely event that an opposing fighter was quick enough to get inside and take him down...Lee would have his @ss knocked out before they even landed.

Bruce Lee: 778 World: 0

[NUTRI-VET]

Do any of you guys that are knocking Bruce Lee fight. I do ,and anyone in ther right mind that would compare BJ Penn to Bruce Lee hasnt a clue. I am sorry bro but you dont know what your talking about. I have traind with the Gracies ,Gokor, Gene Label,
Beni the Jet steven Segal and alot of others. I am 235 pound and fought competivly for 10 years I have 4 loses in competion . What I am getting at Brue Lee would snap me in half and I gaurantee you you ask a fighter from UFC if they could beat Bruce Lee they would say no.

[marka]

Dang..........what a statement........then BL was something else.......do you think his ability can be found in china...I mean, we know him cause he made movies....but, do you think there are a bunch of chinese guys as capable as he was that are unheard of?

[Cycleon]

Do any of you guys that are knocking Bruce Lee fight. I do ,and anyone in ther right mind that would compare BJ Penn to Bruce Lee hasnt a clue. I am sorry bro but you dont know what your talking about. I have traind with the Gracies ,Gokor, Gene Label,
Beni the Jet steven Segal and alot of others. I am 235 pound and fought competivly for 10 years I have 4 loses in competion . What I am getting at Brue Lee would snap me in half and I gaurantee you you ask a fighter from UFC if they could beat Bruce Lee they would say no.

you have trained at the jet center with urquidez? he is a nice guy who I had a good time with being around a number of years ago but you will notice he has the same eyes that jet li has, black like a snakes eyes, a killers eyes - but yes, benny (who was world champ 5 years and 63-0 in world champ comp) would be the first to say that bruce would have won any fight he would be in today.

[BigLikeBull]

Let Bruce loose and he will conquer.

[Gorgoroth_]

Bruce Lee only studied Wing chun for a few years before going off to make some movies and forming his own style ( Jeet kune doo ) .

Bruce lee did a lot for martial arts , I mean he made it popular and brought it into Mainstream america but he was not a " warrior " or " master " .

Jet Li has made movies where the film been slowed down to fully capture his movements - yet does that make Jet a bad ass ? Does that make him compareably to Lee in your opinion ?

Jackie Chan was forced to study for several years and has been in real life fights where if he lost , he likely would have died. how do you think he would have stacked up against Lee ?

I think if someone like Lee was put on the ground it would be over for him , someone would not nessicarily have to be incredibly skilled to mess him up on the ground - thats my opinion .

Bruce lee was not the biggest man in the world by any means , looking at his physique i'd say he never weighed more than 160 and his bones seem thin - if he took a hit from someone like Tyson ( in his prime ) bruce would break . Bruce's body does not look like it could withstand much punishment - again , thats just my opinion .

I think Gracie would stand a good chance at owning bruce.

Did bruce think he was a bad ass people have him out to be ? did he ever claim he was " the best " ?

[Odin]

Bruce Lee only studied Wing chun for a few years before going off to make some movies and forming his own style ( Jeet kune doo ) .

Bruce lee did a lot for martial arts , I mean he made it popular and brought it into Mainstream america but he was not a " warrior " or " master " .

Jet Li has made movies where the film been slowed down to fully capture his movements - yet does that make Jet a bad ass ? Does that make him compareably to Lee in your opinion ?

Jackie Chan was forced to study for several years and has been in real life fights where if he lost , he likely would have died. how do you think he would have stacked up against Lee ?

I think if someone like Lee was put on the ground it would be over for him , someone would not nessicarily have to be incredibly skilled to mess him up on the ground - thats my opinion .

Bruce lee was not the biggest man in the world by any means , looking at his physique i'd say he never weighed more than 160 and his bones seem thin - if he took a hit from someone like Tyson ( in his prime ) bruce would break . Bruce's body does not look like it could withstand much punishment - again , thats just my opinion .

I think Gracie would stand a good chance at owning bruce.

Did bruce think he was a bad ass people have him out to be ? did he ever claim he was " the best " ?

One thing UFC show's is that everone looses no matter how good they are. A lot of its to do with luck. You could kick a guy in the head and your foot my brake and he might be fine? lol you never now and that's what I like about UFC but the money is getting right in UFC and I would like to see someone use Kung Fu and try take a championship doing so. One think I remember from Bruce Lee is my Sure to warm up. If you don't know he tore his back out doing good moring's in 135 pound bar on his back without warming up.

[KAEW44]

i dont believe bruce lee could finish any fighter before he is taken to the ground...many super strikers joined MMA/NHB fights thinking they could do that and they got taken down easier than ever......
It good to know both standup and ground work, and i believe ground has evolved so much today bruce lee would be submitted....just my opinion.

[THA GONZ]

Bruce Lee only studied Wing chun for a few years before going off to make some movies and forming his own style ( Jeet kune doo ) .

Bruce lee did a lot for martial arts , I mean he made it popular and brought it into Mainstream america but he was not a " warrior " or " master " .

Jet Li has made movies where the film been slowed down to fully capture his movements - yet does that make Jet a bad ass ? Does that make him compareably to Lee in your opinion ?

Jackie Chan was forced to study for several years and has been in real life fights where if he lost , he likely would have died. how do you think he would have stacked up against Lee ?

I think if someone like Lee was put on the ground it would be over for him , someone would not nessicarily have to be incredibly skilled to mess him up on the ground - thats my opinion .

Did bruce think he was a bad ass people have him out to be ? did he ever claim he was " the best " ?

Bruce Lee fought many real life fights where if he lost he could possibly be killed. Sometimes against more than one very skilled fighter. Let's not forget that Most of the Asian and Chineese Martial Arts teachers and Masters hated Bruce because he was one of the first to try and teach it to americans and they didn't want that. They would always send their best men to try to take out bruce and never succeded. He would sometimes be beaten up and bloodied, but never lost!!
During the making of "Enter the Dragon" Bruce was also challenged daily by the extras that were their, most of them very skilled and well known martial artists, and he tooled everyone who challenged him in between scenes and didin't even disrupt the filming!
I have read many books on Bruce and watched most of his films and documentaries. These are all true stories and If anyone dosen't belive them they can look up the info. Its all well documented.
There is a Bruce Lee documentary out that was made by the director of the original "Enter the Dragon" and it has scores of people and martial artists who knew him talking about Bruce.
So to answer your last question "Did bruce think he was a bad ass people have him out to be ? did he ever claim he was " the best"?" You bet, in the documentary everyone who knows bruce said he was a great guy, but always felt he was superior to everyone in martial arts and that no one could beat him. They said he was very cocky!!

With all that being said Bruce Lee was not just a movie figther who never fought in real life. He fought and on the record from any source that knew him, he never lost! He wasn't fighting some idiots of the street either, he was fighting other very skilled martial artists. So yes he was a very tough man. And as for the people who think that Bruce Lee couldn't take a shot from tysonor some of the other bigger guys in the UFC, you might be right, but I can almost guarentee that most of them would never be able to lay a good shot on him. Bruce was much to quick. You have to hit someone to hurt them! Also I am not sure how he was on the ground, but most people would never get him there even on their best day, so I'm sure it wouldn't matter to much.

Also Bruce Lee studied Wing Chun rigorusly from 1954 til about 1960 or 62 and then began to study other forms of martial arts to incorperate into his style which would later be known as jeet kune do. He was well versed in many forms of martial arts and took only the moves he felt worked best from all of them and created his own form.

Now first off we all have to remember that Bruce would be 64 yeard old if he were alive today. So if we are being hypothetical and assuming Bruce was in his prime today, I personaly think bruce would be able to take out most people today. He was much to quick and powerfull for most fighters even today. He was known to take out people twice his size, and he only weighed around 135-140lbs at his best and 128lbs at the time of his death.

Also if we are assuming Bruce was in his prime today you would also have to assume that Bruce would have included some of the newer methods and moves in his form and would be just as well rounded as anyfighter today if not more. So again Bruce if in his Prime today would tool just about anybody IMO.

Also if Bruce Lee was still alive today he would have evolved his form with the times and incoperated many newer moves and styles. He was far from done with jeet kune do and if alive today it would IMO be the best and most well rounded form of Martial arts. just my .02

[Rob]

Reading all this makes me want to watch a Bruce Lee movie, never seen one before..dude sounds crazy

[marka]

very interesting

[Cycleon]

to give you an idea of Bruce's strength - although he wieghed about 135 lbs - he could take a 75 lb barbell and strait arm raise it in front of him and hold it for 60 seconds - I doubt many of you here could do that amount much less more than 50% of their weight. And most certainly Bruce was not a movie star who couldnt fight in the real world - an example is jackie chan who is not a bad martial artist and a great stuntman but never has claimed to be a fighter. The essence of fighting was everything for Bruce tho.

Jet Li is also a true bad ass - he is not just a pretty boy - he was the National Martial Arts Champion of China 4 times before the age of 20 years old and no one has ever matched that record of Championships - all before getting into movies and if you know what to look for, you can tell it is the real thing - he is 41 yo now but would still be a very competitive fighter I would guess, tho not on Bruce's level

[TestTubeBaby]

thank you cycleon and gonz!! men who know what theyre talking about. hands down, doesnt matter who, bruce would kill them in seconds. try and grapple with bruce? b4 u can even think of trying to grab him ur face will be smashed and ur knee will be broken. YES, that quick. bruce knew how to generate all his body weight and power into a single punch or kick, and at LIGHTNING speed. bruce lee is hands down the greatest fighter to ever live, and im not just talking pound for pound! and to get into more detail, bruces blows deliver devastating damage, externally as well as interally. most remarkable fighter ever. so at 5'8 135 lbs, bruce takes ANY man/men, at any time. FOR SURE. anyone who argues this hasn't done extensive research on bruce lee. bruce lee is one in 20 billion.

[craneboy]

no doubt about it bruce lee was a bad mother ****er

[nsa]

The best way to fight bruce lee was not to fight him. People who are true martial artists don't attack other people, they defend themselves against attackers. Bruce lee was ridiculously strong and fast. The whole BJ penn thing, dude your an idiot, no way you can ever compare the two. And the whle tyson thing, IMO he's still not as fast as bruce and its debatable whether or not he is stronger than bruce. Sure he's bigger, but bruce was able to do serious damage to people more than twice his size with an inch of space to get his fist moving.

[Gorgoroth_]

The best way to fight bruce lee was not to fight him. People who are true martial artists don't attack other people, they defend themselves against attackers. Bruce lee was ridiculously strong and fast. The whole BJ penn thing, dude your an idiot, no way you can ever compare the two. And the whle tyson thing, IMO he's still not as fast as bruce and its debatable whether or not he is stronger than bruce. Sure he's bigger, but bruce was able to do serious damage to people more than twice his size with an inch of space to get his fist moving.

" People who are true Martial Artists don't attack other people , they defend themselves against attackers "

- you're refering to people who likely practice asian martial arts and abide by a non-violent ethos , not all Martial Artists are pacifists , if that was the case then Japan should have been conflict free between the heian period (794-1185) and the azuchi momoyama period (1573 - 1603) correct ? Samurai were still very influential throughout Japan ,and they're the " role model martial artists " in terms of discipline and " Code " , yet " Era of Warring states " took place in the Muromachi Period which ended in the year 1573 so no , I do not think " martial artists " only act in self defense - they do not practice what they preach .

Another thing , not all Martial Artist have roots in Asia - For example , look at Rome and Egypt , both had a thriving system of martial arts . Also , France has a form of boxing . Do you think the Romans and the Egyptians were non-aggressors ?

" Bruce lee was ridiculously strong and fast "

There is no denying that he was fast , but I don't think he was capable of putting up any serious weight .

As for bruce " taking a 75 lb barbell and strait arm raise it in front of him and hold it for 60 seconds " I'd like to see some evidence of him preforming that feat . When you say holding it for 60 seconds do you mean with his arm straight and fully extended ?

" but bruce was able to do serious damage to people more than twice his size with an inch of space to get his fist moving. "

Ah , the " fabled " one inch punch . IF it could be used in a real fighting situation then we wouldn't be talking about Bruce Lee or Gracie , we would be talking about tai ji quan or one of those " internal " styles .

Bruce Lee did not event the " One Inch Punch " its actually a fairly old technique is in truth an ancient technique in Weng Shun Kuen. Bruce Lee, who was never tutored in this technique, probably learned it by spying on senior students when he studied wing chun . Because he never got to learning the second form, "Chum Kiu", that trains the footwork that is needed to perform the One Inch Punch correctly, he never got that part right.

The "One Inch Punch" SHOULD in fact be a "NO INCH PUNCH" ("One Inch is already too far away"). That is how what it was originally intented. Don’t forget it is so much older than Bruce Lee. The technique is typical for the Neija (Internal) styles of " martial arts " like tai ji quan and weng shun kuen.

Mike Tyson : he takes his gloves off and hits somene he'd devastate them , if you doubt that then I suggest you go track him down and slap him or something and see how quick he breaks your face . In his Prime he was a juggernaught , he could not be stoped . I am not much of a Tyson fan , but everyone has to admit he had punching power - probably more power than most , if any boxer(s) in recent history . If he hit someone like bruce he'd probably break ( if not shatter ) bones .

Gracie: If he got bruce on the ground it would be , plain and simple. Bruce was likely more comfortable fighting on his feet since wing chun doesn't specialize groundwork.

In the end it would all depend on if Gracie could get bruce on the ground or if bruce unleashed a vicious kick to the head or something along those lines .

[TestTubeBaby]

u dont believe bruce could use fang ji if needed in a fight situation?

[TestTubeBaby]

oh and gorgoroth, lol, jet li practiced wu shu! i bet he's a good dancer!

[FRANK WHITE]

Totally agree,

I was with Danny Inasonto in the mid 90's and had a chance to learn a lot about Jeet kune Do and Bruce Lee. Cycleon is right. Most people think because he was so small he couldn't take the big UFC guys today. I have to disagree. Bruce was freakishly strong for his size and I"ve heard guys say getting hit by him was like being hit with a sledge hammer. Do some research and you'll see. Bruce was not a normal person. he was that one in a hundred years who was an anomoly in the world. God bless the king.

but thats also because both of you are thinking that the fight will go to the ground - one thing that you cant get off of the TV is that Bruce would have hit the fighter a few times or simply kicked him once and that could have been enough to end it - his speed was far beyond what I can describe and you will find that they actually slowed down some of his movies so that you could see his hands move - I have trained with one of his students and have seen Ted Wong (Lee's only "pure" student in that he hadnt studied before that) in action and even I who know what to look for could barely see Teds hands move - and I kid you not, the man almost causually kicked a steel pole in the ground 6 feet from me and I could feel the ground vibrate underneath me - very scary dude but you will never see him fight unless you are in a small group

and lest you think its speed only not strength - only one of Bruce's students was large enough to hold a hand strike leather pad because bruce would punch and it would dislocate the holders arm. Think...the guy with the 1 inch punch that could knock a big guy back 3 feet - what do you think that his kick could do? Once you study the mechanics of what he did, you could appreciate that no one would be able to touch him, probably even today

[chicamahomico]

I am also a huge Bruce Lee fan and there is no doubt in my mind that his contributions to MA are among the most important. However, it souunds like some of you guys have watched TBS's Return of the Dragon marathon weekend a few too many times.

Brude Lee practiced at a time when there was a huge assymetry of information so I don't think you can really make valid comparisons to other fighters in his day (he didn't compete) or to people in our time. Nowadays all the fighters have access to 99.9% of the same information, it's all about motivation, budget, and natural ability, just like any other hight level sport.

[Gorgoroth_]

u dont believe bruce could use fang ji if needed in a fight situation?

Bruce was a smart man. He probably would not have gotten close enough to gracie to attempt the One inch punch out because the likelihood of bruce getting taken to the ground would greatly increase the closer to gracie he got .

[Cycleon]

as probably the only one on this board who has actually trained more than 2.5 years in the backyard garage with a direct student of Bruce's and studied real jeet kun do not all this crap that passes off for it these days - I have a certain perspective on things - first of all:

as to the 75lb barbell - Ted Wong told us that he personally saw this done by Bruce a number of times - it was a training regimine - We had to do the same training in our little club - and Ted's Word I think is reliable

as to there being more information available today - thats the problem, real jeet kun do you cannot get from a book or even watching someone else really - because it is about feeling it and hearing it when you hit a something correctly - and the Innosanto school, I hate to say this but thats not even remotely JKD - everyone in our club (about 4 or 5 max) thought we sucked because we never seemed to get faster with each other....then we would get sent over to the Innosanto school to watch the blackbelts fight..only then we realized how fast we were and how slow everyone else was and how badly they telegraphed

there are no "moves" or forms in real JKD, only drills - I could show you a drill but unless you could do it and then feel it for yourself when it was right, then you would know what I am talking about - and then you would understand why Bruce was far beyond anyone else in the game

and dont worry about the 1" punch..I know how but we never practiced it much...worry about the instant 5' puch - meaning the punch from 5' away that seemed almost instant with no warning - or the kick from 8' away that crushes your ribs

[FRANK WHITE]

as probably the only one on this board who has actually trained more than 2.5 years in the backyard garage with a direct student of Bruce's and studied real jeet kun do not all this crap that passes off for it these days - I have a certain perspective on things - first of all:

as to the 75lb barbell - Ted Wong told us that he personally saw this done by Bruce a number of times - it was a training regimine - We had to do the same training in our little club - and Ted's Word I think is reliable

as to there being more information available today - thats the problem, real jeet kun do you cannot get from a book or even watching someone else really - because it is about feeling it and hearing it when you hit a something correctly - and the Innosanto school, I hate to say this but thats not even remotely JKD - everyone in our club (about 4 or 5 max) thought we sucked because we never seemed to get faster with each other....then we would get sent over to the Innosanto school to watch the blackbelts fight..only then we realized how fast we were and how slow everyone else was and how badly they telegraphed

there are no "moves" or forms in real JKD, only drills - I could show you a drill but unless you could do it and then feel it for yourself when it was right, then you would know what I am talking about - and then you would understand why Bruce was far beyond anyone else in the game

and dont worry about the 1" punch..I know how but we never practiced it much...worry about the instant 5' puch - meaning the punch from 5' away that seemed almost instant with no warning - or the kick from 8' away that crushes your ribs

Humm, this is interesting. Sifu Danny was in my opinion a great instructor. We were told by Sifu Inosanto that his Jeet Kune Do was a interpretation of Bruce Lee's original art and that it differed somewhat. I remember the first thing I was told was to "Throw away all ideas, patterns, concepts,etc, of what is or isn't Jeet Kune do. We were taught that the classical patterns of Karate dull your creativity. "A bundle of routines is what Sifu Inasonto said Bruce called Kata's. I was taught Jeet Kune Do "Favors formlessness so that it can assume all forms." Quote from Bruce.
It JKD there was no particular way to perform a skill, just whatever is most effecient. We would master a backfist or a hook kick and apply it if it worked for us. Always asking, "What made it work" We developed our style through hard core trial and error sparring. C, are you sure you sparred with the Inosanto school downtown L.A., or one of there subschools. We gave out no belts, I"m assuming you meant senior students. I heard some bad things about concept JKD schools which did, however. I was at the school on Olympic from 1992-1996.

I met Ted Wong, I met him at a siminar in Virginia with a Dr. Beasley. I was very impressed. And yes he is a legend in the JKD community. I didn't know he was teaching. You are very lucky to have studied with him privately. He termed his teachings independent karate, isnt' that right C. You must be a disciple of Jun Fan/jeet kune do. Also called the original group,(pre 1973), designed and taught by Bruce Lee. The Inosanto created concept methods stresses that JKD is an expression of 26 arts, with a common thread, that allows the performer to flow from art to art. Even 26 arts is "limiting yourself", so this is not what Bruce would have taught. I know very well that original Jun Fan stressed, "No limitations. I wish I could have studied more with Jun Fan, but at the time I chose the best option I could, and that was Sifu Inosanto. And I'm not complaining. Brandon Lee studied with Sifu Inosanto. I saw him at the Olympic school many times. He was very, very fast. During sparring, it was a five to one ratio in hits in his favor, usually. I once asked Sifu Inosanto about increasing my speed and he said, " Brandon is very fast, but his father was five times faster." I also know that Brandon studied outside the school, possibly with Ted Wong. You may know about this C.

We sparred against many students using different styles and some using strictly interpreted JKD philosophies. I believe if you found us predictable and telegraphic that is not good. However, Sifu Dan's school was more commercial than a garage with 4 or 5 guys and Ted Wong. I would have chosen the garage but I didnt' have that opportunity. I remember Sifu Dan trained us in kali and silat, which he later said was probably a mistake because these styles had particular techniques he found to rigid. The bottom line is that our JKD was bound by no particular interpretation of the skills that Bruce Lee developed. If the JKD students you faced were predictable, then they failed in the JKD philosophy, and I am sorry to hear that.

"No way is way" Bruce Lee

[chicamahomico]

All of the stories I have read or heard about Bruce's condtioning routine and strength are believeable IMO. He was ahead of his time in that arena also.

as to the 75lb barbell - Ted Wong told us that he personally saw this done by Bruce a number of times - it was a training regimine - We had to do the same training in our little club - and Ted's Word I think is reliable

I was thinking of the information assymetry more from the sheer openness of MA today compared with 30-40 years ago. That and the ability most people have to travel affordably and the ease of doing so. Not to mention other form s of communication (mags, viceos, seminars, etc). The information out there has not only got better, it's more readily availbale. Back then you were lucky if you could even find someone who was decent to train under (remember the days when people thought Karate BB's were tough guys and MA was some mysterious thing) nowadays you need to work on your mat game fly to MA, work with Jimmy Pedro or spend you 2 week vacation at a Gracie camp in Brazil.

as to there being more information available today - thats the problem, real jeet kun do you cannot get from a book or even watching someone else really - because it is about feeling it and hearing it when you hit a something correctly - and the Innosanto school, I hate to say this but thats not even remotely JKD - everyone in our club (about 4 or 5 max) thought we sucked because we never seemed to get faster with each other....then we would get sent over to the Innosanto school to watch the blackbelts fight..only then we realized how fast we were and how slow everyone else was and how badly they telegraphed

I am familiar with drills, I have done them a few times and I actually liked them. Great way to train sensitivity and reaction time. However, IMO there are more fruitful training methods. This is one of the best MA threads on this board IMO.

there are no "moves" or forms in real JKD, only drills - I could show you a drill but unless you could do it and then feel it for yourself when it was right, then you would know what I am talking about - and then you would understand why Bruce was far beyond anyone else in the game

[Cycleon]

Humm, this is interesting. Sifu Danny was in my opinion a great instructor. We were told by Sifu Inosanto that his Jeet Kune Do was a interpretation of Bruce Lee's original art and that it differed somewhat. I remember the first thing I was told was to "Throw away all ideas, patterns, concepts,etc, of what is or isn't Jeet Kune do. We were taught that the classical patterns of Karate dull your creativity. "A bundle of routines is what Sifu Inasonto said Bruce called Kata's. I was taught Jeet Kune Do "Favors formlessness so that it can assume all forms." Quote from Bruce.
It JKD there was no particular way to perform a skill, just whatever is most effecient. We would master a backfist or a hook kick and apply it if it worked for us. Always asking, "What made it work" We developed our style through hard core trial and error sparring. C, are you sure you sparred with the Inosanto school downtown L.A., or one of there subschools. We gave out no belts, I"m assuming you meant senior students. I heard some bad things about concept JKD schools which did, however. I was at the school on Olympic from 1992-1996.

I met Ted Wong, I met him at a siminar in Virginia with a Dr. Beasley. I was very impressed. And yes he is a legend in the JKD community. I didn't know he was teaching. You are very lucky to have studied with him privately. He termed his teachings independent karate, isnt' that right C. You must be a disciple of Jun Fan/jeet kune do. Also called the original group,(pre 1973), designed and taught by Bruce Lee. The Inosanto created concept methods stresses that JKD is an expression of 26 arts, with a common thread, that allows the performer to flow from art to art. Even 26 arts is "limiting yourself", so this is not what Bruce would have taught. I know very well that original Jun Fan stressed, "No limitations. I wish I could have studied more with Jun Fan, but at the time I chose the best option I could, and that was Sifu Inosanto. And I'm not complaining. Brandon Lee studied with Sifu Inosanto. I saw him at the Olympic school many times. He was very, very fast. During sparring, it was a five to one ratio in hits in his favor, usually. I once asked Sifu Inosanto about increasing my speed and he said, " Brandon is very fast, but his father was five times faster." I also know that Brandon studied outside the school, possibly with Ted Wong. You may know about this C.

We sparred against many students using different styles and some using strictly interpreted JKD philosophies. I believe if you found us predictable and telegraphic that is not good. However, Sifu Dan's school was more commercial than a garage with 4 or 5 guys and Ted Wong. I would have chosen the garage but I didnt' have that opportunity. I remember Sifu Dan trained us in kali and silat, which he later said was probably a mistake because these styles had particular techniques he found to rigid. The bottom line is that our JKD was bound by no particular interpretation of the skills that Bruce Lee developed. If the JKD students you faced were predictable, then they failed in the JKD philosophy, and I am sorry to hear that.

"No way is way" Bruce Lee

I really have no complaints against Innosanto because when you have a large commercial school like that its very hard to have the same essence of the garage - because you have to do belts and all that crap to keep people coming so you can pay that massive rent (we didnt have any belts, levels, awards or anything). Now you are right, Frank, that Innosanto didnt have belts either at that time (you were there at the same time I was) but I think they do have some now (but maybe only for kids) - Maybe I was watching you one of those times . And yes, before JKD I took arnis and escrima where we did a lot of stick fighting and I saw a LOT of philipino influence at the Innosanto school - granted, there are some very talented people over there...its just that its not JKD. You also had a lot more weapons training going on at olympic...which we didnt have much at all.

What i studied was not called JKD out of respect for Bruce- it was called "Modified Accellerated Wing Chun Gung Fu" Most of the close students wouldnt call it JKD until later when they saw so many people diluting the ideas. Even now, Michael (my instructor) calls it something different "Ballistic Kickboxing".

Funny thing is I was really lucky to get in. Sifu Michael tried to get rid of everyone who called and generally sent you to a different school. And once you got there the first time, he tried to run you off - and of course we had to do the sweeping up, running errands for him, etc before class - and class lasted as long as he wanted it to. It was a really strange deal but I was very lucky to get in it - I just didnt like the idea of being shut out of anything and kept to it.

Michael is still having students I think - If anyone lives in Los Angeles and wants to train with a great teacher let me know and I will give you his contact details.

[KINGKONG]

bruce lee was something special I don't think theres been very many men that have lived that could mess with him....

[P Rock]

bruce lee was real? i thought he was like a super hero or something....he was the man, kick anyones behind.

[Cycleon]

for the record, bruce DID spar a top grappler of the era "judo" gene lebelle, and got spanked. granted, the guy was much bigger, but the grapplers nowadays are much more skilled. bruce was a tremendous athlete, and had some great ideas, ahead of his time, tried to create MMA b4 it existed, died b4 he could complete the work.

That is a widely held but incorrect legend. What happened is that the stuntmen were horsing around when bruce first came on set of the Green Hornet - his earlier years. He then trained and sparred with gene later. Gene did not "spank" him.

here is Gene's recounting of the event: