Pound 4 Pound

[Box This*]

Who would you guys say is pound 4 pound all round fighter who is still fighting today.

Ide probably say wandy...what do u guys think.

This is not just pride but also ufc - k1 - cage rage and any others you can think of.

[rar1015]

Matt Hughes!!

[D3m3nt3d]

Who would you guys say is pound 4 pound all round fighter who is still fighting today.

Ide probably say wandy...what do u guys think.

This is not just pride but also ufc - k1 - cage rage and any others you can think of.

me

[godkilla]

id say silva, he the man.

[sooners04]

Fedor!!

[stayinstacked]

Fedor!!

I agree

[Box This*]

What about the likes of gomi 10 and 1 and had some real hard fights.

[QuieTSToRM33]

i would love to see these guys go at it (hypothetically)

Wandy, Fedor, Hughes, Gomi

[gixxerboy1]

Matt Hughes.

[GQ-Bouncer]

Matt Hughes, unquestioned

[unvme9180]

i gotta go with Matt Hughes as well

[Tedbear981]

i gotta go with Matt Hughes as well

Got to go with Fedor who has 1 "loss" by a cut. Matt has 4 losses and was dominated by BJ Penn.

[Hunter]

Fedor-as faced and beat many of the top heavyweights. A match with barnette would be interesting.
Penn-beat who many consider one of the pound for pound best moving up a weight class. With back to back loss's and his win over matt getting older he is a question mark.
Hughes-one loss beat so many solid competitors continues to improve.
Nog-two loss's to fedor and so much heart he would be the fedor of the game if fedor was not around.
Gomi-incredible run but seemed to be unmotivated in his last fight. His whole life he has been a underdog I am sure he will return stronger then ever.
GSP-one loss to hughes and a chance to avenge it in the near future. Solid wins mayhem,sherk,trigg place him in a pound for pound best.
Crocop-great wins, but his arrogance can really get in the way of his winning. Classic bridesmaid.
Silva-improved takedown defense and beat many of the tops 205 pounders. Impressive wins but struggles with grapplers
Liddell-Two knockout wins over couture(even a older couture). Seems to be improved and even more comfortable in the cage now.
Hederson-very impressive well fighting at a heavier weight. Controversial wins seem to plague him.

These are in no particular order just how I see some of the pound for pound best

[rar1015]

Very well put mn fighter.

[gixxerboy1]

I want to see Hughes and GSP fight again.

[Hunter]

Also would like to add Kawajiri-only man to beat shaolin and had a war with gomi. Couple of big wins and he will be right back in title contention.
Shaolin-One loss to kawajiri, I hope he signs with pride so he can play with some bigger boys. Incredible BJJ but with only one win big win and a rematch he lost he is on the outside looking in
I cant belive I forget "Kidd" Yamamoto-He reprensents every small guy that dreamed big, a solid win of genki(controverisial stoppage) he is in pound for pound of the best. I would love to see him sign with pride. However his size adn weight maybe a problem when he fights guys who cut from 175(gomi) but love the guy to death. A natural 145 pound fighter fighting at 155 never stops to inspire me

[rar1015]

I want to see Hughes and GSP fight again.

You will be able to see them fight at UFC 63 on September 23rd.

[Tedbear981]

Hughes-one loss beat so many solid competitors continues to improve.

Hughes has 4 losses bro..not being a d*ck just stating the facts Plus he was in one of them by penn...I have never see Fedor owned...I have seen him Rocked but not even close to being owned...

[Hunter]

Hughes has 4 losses bro..not being a d*ck just stating the facts Plus he was in one of them by penn...I have never see Fedor owned...I have seen him Rocked but not even close to being owned...

Yeah he lost to pele by ko then hallman twice by sub then penn by sub. I was speaking of current loses not career. I dont even know how current a loss going on three years is but I added it just becouse he got beat beat which such ease, on a side note great eyes tedbear981

[PlasticFuture112]

Fedor with out question. But Hughes in a somewhat distant second....

[Tedbear981]

I also think you have to put silva up there, he has lost a few times and fought some cans but he has also beaten a lot of Studs.. I myself thought Rampage was going to dismember him in their first fight and since seeing that PPV live I have been a fan ever since...

[Chrisnjc]

Alot of you say Matt Hughes... You guys just like him cause he is strong..haha.. although he does have alot of skill.. I have fought Matt Hughes in the octagon personally. I couldnt name him as the best pound for pound fighter... I also see alot of people saying Wanderlei Silva.... If he is the best pound for pound fighter then what about Vitor Belfort, Tito Ortiz or Mark Hunt.... All of whom have beaten Wanderlei.

How about Rich Franklin?

[Hunter]

Alot of you say Matt Hughes... You guys just like him cause he is strong..haha.. although he does have alot of skill.. I have fought Matt Hughes in the octagon personally. I couldnt name him as the best pound for pound fighter... I also see alot of people saying Wanderlei Silva.... If he is the best pound for pound fighter then what about Vitor Belfort, Tito Ortiz or Mark Hunt.... All of whom have beaten Wanderlei.

How about Rich Franklin?

Well hunt was fighting a much smaller wandy and has not beaten anyone besides crocop to put him in the pound for pound best. You have to beat more then one guy to be in the pound for pound best Vitor maybe years ago but he has been in a slump for a few years. Ortiz wasn't active in a year in a half so hard to place him in there. His best win would either be vitor or a sucked down vladimerishanko(sp) Ortiz and belfort both beat him years ago and the hunt win in my opinion was controversial look at hunt at the end of the fight he didn't think he even won. I would include arona in the pound for pound best and forget to mention him becouse I still believe he beat wandy in the 2nd encounter. Franklin is good but he has beat know one to place him in the pound for pound best. I love tanner but tanner is not a pound for pound best and the crow is nothing special in the weight class you rematch him and tanner, tanner will take it. Also I have a hard time believing you fought hughes in the ufc you may have fought him but I have a hard time believing it becouse I compete in mma and have beaten a few names in the up and comer shows. I dont drop names becouse you can figure out who it is so if you did fight him why would you give a hint to your identity when your on a steriod board. If you did fight him then I give you all the credit in the world just have a hard time buying it.

[rar1015]

When was the last time you even watch a pride or ufc event????

[rar1015]

Well hunt was fighting a much smaller wandy and has not beaten anyone besides crocop to put him in the pound for pound best. You have to beat more then one guy to be in the pound for pound best Vitor maybe years ago but he has been in a slump for a few years. Ortiz wasn't active in a year in a half so hard to place him in there. His best win would either be vitor or a sucked down vladimerishanko(sp) Ortiz and belfort both beat him years ago and the hunt win in my opinion was controversial look at hunt at the end of the fight he didn't think he even won. I would include arona in the pound for pound best and forget to mention him becouse I still believe he beat wandy in the 2nd encounter. Franklin is good but he has beat know one to place him in the pound for pound best. I love tanner but tanner is not a pound for pound best and the crow is nothing special in the weight class you rematch him and tanner, tanner will take it. Also I have a hard time believing you fought hughes in the ufc you may have fought him but I have a hard time believing it becouse I compete in mma and have beaten a few names in the up and comer shows. I dont drop names becouse you can figure out who it is so if you did fight him why would you give a hint to your identity when your on a steriod board. If you did fight him then I give you all the credit in the world just have a hard time buying it.

Couldnt have said it better myself!!!!!!!!!!

[Hunter]

also the only chris hughes fought was in rings melinuim and he fights out of australia. I dont think you watch much mma pal and to bring up losses from years ago isn't real practical fighters improve

[rar1015]

Exactly!!

[Tedbear981]

Alot of you say Matt Hughes... You guys just like him cause he is strong..haha.. although he does have alot of skill.. I have fought Matt Hughes in the octagon personally. I couldnt name him as the best pound for pound fighter... I also see alot of people saying Wanderlei Silva.... If he is the best pound for pound fighter then what about Vitor Belfort, Tito Ortiz or Mark Hunt.... All of whom have beaten Wanderlei.

How about Rich Franklin?

Rich Franklin is a good fighter but has beaten no one and has a glass Jaw..I Fought Fedor....What now!!!!

[dedic8ed1]

#1Lidell
#2Penn
#3Hughs
But with fighting on any given day anyone of these guys can lose,skills take you far but if somebodys got your ticket your gonna fall.

[Chrisnjc]

Im glad to see that we have such an abundance of knowledge here.. To answer your questions in order.. MMA Fighter.. You seem to be very knowledgeable about MMA... I was born and raised in Australia, I moved to the states in 2002. Most of my fighting was in 2000.. I now reside in Baghdad Iraq, working for EDOT as private security personel. I dont take steroids and like to read the posts. I am also not fighting anymore. Any fighter at that level can beat any other fighter on any given day. I didnt say that Rich Franklin was the best pound for pound fighter... I simply asked what you guys thought about him....

RAR 1015: I watch them all the time, when time permits. I havent personally been in the cage for over 2 years.

Tedear81: I am friends with Rich... What makes you so sure that he has a glass jaw? Have you knocked him out?
Also, you say he has fought "nobody".... Im not sure your definition of nobody... but: Ken Shamrock, Nate Quarry, Evan Tanner, David Loiseau, Marvin Eastman..... ?? Also.... How long ago did you fight Fedor?? Before or after I did?

[Tedbear981]

Tedear81: I am friends with Rich... What makes you so sure that he has a glass jaw? Have you knocked him out?
Also, you say he has fought "nobody".... Im not sure your definition of nobody... but: Ken Shamrock, Nate Quarry, Evan Tanner, David Loiseau, Marvin Eastman..... ?? Also.... How long ago did you fight Fedor?? Before or after I did?

First of all it is good to see you have a sense of humor!
As to Rich Franklin, I think he is a very well rounded talented fighter who will go far in the sport. He has a huge heart and when he fights I will be there rooting for him. Now to the fighters you mentioned;
Ken Shamrock-Great in his day but the sport passed him by long ago, Rich fought him when he was past his prime so that proves nothing
Nate Quarry-A B level fighter who was proven as such when Rich destroyed him, also was thrown in a title match way to early
Evan Tanner-Taylor made for a fighter like Rich who does everything better than he does.
David Loiseau-Same as above taylor made for Rich
Marvin Eastman-Has one lucky ass win over Rampage in 2000 and since then the only wins he has are over nobodys...B level fighter
Now to the part about the glass Jaw...Tanner knocked him down and had him holding on to survive. Tanner is not a very hard hitter, same with Loiseau. He got knocked down numerous times and finally KTFO by Ryoto Machida in his only loss.

[Hunter]

Im glad to see that we have such an abundance of knowledge here.. To answer your questions in order.. MMA Fighter.. You seem to be very knowledgeable about MMA... I was born and raised in Australia, I moved to the states in 2002. Most of my fighting was in 2000.. I now reside in Baghdad Iraq, working for EDOT as private security personel. I dont take steroids and like to read the posts. I am also not fighting anymore. Any fighter at that level can beat any other fighter on any given day. I didnt say that Rich Franklin was the best pound for pound fighter... I simply asked what you guys thought about him....

RAR 1015: I watch them all the time, when time permits. I havent personally been in the cage for over 2 years.

Tedear81: I am friends with Rich... What makes you so sure that he has a glass jaw? Have you knocked him out?
Also, you say he has fought "nobody".... Im not sure your definition of nobody... but: Ken Shamrock, Nate Quarry, Evan Tanner, David Loiseau, Marvin Eastman..... ?? Also.... How long ago did you fight Fedor?? Before or after I did?

I deffiantly did not mean to jump you but in this day and age alot of want to be fighters claim alot of things. I do think rich franklin is good and I have always said a class act but simply I dont think he has proven himself to be placed in the pound for pounds best and its mn_fighter not mmafighter just kidding bro

[BgMc31]

Floyd Mayweather Jr. I know, I know, it's not MMA, but I'm a bigger boxing fan than I am of mma. I like mma alot, but it seems to me to be more about who is tougher and who has more heart than who is the better athlete. This is just my opinion, but I'm sure I'll get flamed anyway. But during your flaming, please don't act like I don't know what I'm talking about, I live in Vegas and go to just about every major mma and boxing event. Again, I'm just stating MY opinion.

I think the best mma fighter is definately Hughes, mainly because he is probably the best mma athlete on the planet,not just a tough guy like most of cats in mma are.

[Hunter]

Floyd Mayweather Jr. I know, I know, it's not MMA, but I'm a bigger boxing fan than I am of mma. I like mma alot, but it seems to me to be more about who is tougher and who has more heart than who is the better athlete. This is just my opinion, but I'm sure I'll get flamed anyway. But during your flaming, please don't act like I don't know what I'm talking about, I live in Vegas and go to just about every major mma and boxing event. Again, I'm just stating MY opinion.

I think the best mma fighter is definately Hughes, mainly because he is probably the best mma athlete on the planet,not just a tough guy like most of cats in mma are.

Not flamming but going to give you a few reasons on why you wrong.
1)Kevin randleman is a very tough cat training and fighting with a infected lung but has a poor record due to the fact his techinique is very poor and he is in my mind the best athlete mma has scene/
2) hughes vs penn. Hughes is by far the better athlete but was completely outclassed by penn.
3) Royce gracie not athletic at all but has won matches based on techinique

Things that win mma fights
1)skill
2)conditioning
3)Cross training
4)heart
5) game plan on how to win

I am not flamming again but to be honest you may watch it but you have alot to learn about it and why people win

[BgMc31]

I agree with your assessment on what it takes to win in mma. I never doubted any of what you are saying. What I was saying is mma differs from most sports because in most sports the better athlete usually wins, but in mma it's usually the tougher guy with the better technique and heart wins. Its one of the few sports where being a better athlete athlete doesn't necessarily translate into success.

[Hunter]

I agree with your assessment on what it takes to win in mma. I never doubted any of what you are saying. What I was saying is mma differs from most sports because in most sports the better athlete usually wins, but in mma it's usually the tougher guy with the better technique and heart wins. Its one of the few sports where being a better athlete athlete doesn't necessarily translate into success.

I disagree on the better athlete idea, a great example is wayne gretzky, he was small and not the fastest but learned that intelligent play and skill can make up for a lack of natural athletic ability, another example is buster douglas vs tyson, tyson is 10 times the natural athelete that douglas was but douglas won on toughness and a solid game plan. Probably the best example is micheal jordon, he didn't make his varsity team till a junior and has said himself not a natural athlete but skill and determination made him what he is today. Also you can't teach heart but you can improve your athletic prowlness through weight traning, cardio plyo's etc. I do see your point on mma though I think its the same with boxing pure heart makes you fan favorite heart and skill make you legend

[BgMc31]

I disagree on the better athlete idea, a great example is wayne gretzky, he was small and not the fastest but learned that intelligent play and skill can make up for a lack of natural athletic ability, another example is buster douglas vs tyson, tyson is 10 times the natural athelete that douglas was but douglas won on toughness and a solid game plan. Probably the best example is micheal jordon, he didn't make his varsity team till a junior and has said himself not a natural athlete but skill and determination made him what he is today. Also you can't teach heart but you can improve your athletic prowlness through weight traning, cardio plyo's etc. I do see your point on mma though I think its the same with boxing pure heart makes you fan favorite heart and skill make you legend

Everyone you mentioned (except for Jordan) is the exception rather than the norm. Sure Gretzky was smallish but his speed on skates and his body control was unmatched (pure athleticsm). People have compared Gretzkys speed and body control to that of Barry Sanders. Buster Douglas was a complete fluke evidenced by his fights after Tyson. Douglas fought an unstable Mike Tyson with all kinds of things going on outside of the ring. No excuses for Mike because he had his ass handed to him, but Buster never went on to do anything else in boxing after he beat Mike. Now on your Jordan assessment... WAY OFF BASE!! Jordan got cut from his high school team his sophmore year because during his freshman year he was a star at the AAU level and came into his sophmore year with a big head (Jordan admitted it himself). Jordan had more physical ability than just about anybody ever to pick up a basketball. His 46" vert was matched only by very few. Again his body control, speed, and agility have yet to be match. The reason why he is the greatest basketball player of all time is because he COMBINED his natural ability with his tenacious ability to work hard and come through in a clutch. So again, the better athlete wins out most of the time. Another perfect example, Kurt Warner, tons of heart and good ability, but he's bounced around the league because he keeps losing his position because of injury AND better athletes beating him out (Bulger, Manning, and eventually Leinart). Arturro Gatti, another example, tons of heart and emotion, plus he sells tickets, but got his ass handed to him by Floyd Mayweather. Why? Because Floyd is a much better athlete than he is. Vinny Pazienza, again lots of heart, but when he fought Roy Jones he could only land 1 punch in two rounds and didn't land any in another round before being knocked senseless. I can go on and on with just about every sport ... except MMA. So your last sentence is competely true. And yes you can develop your athletic ability with plyos, weight training, diet, etc. But you can deny that some people are just blessed with better genetics that makes them that much better... naturally. I know for a fact that know matter how much I train I could never hit a baseball like Barry Bonds, or Big Papi, nor will I ever be able to run 4.2 like Donte Stallworth (my best for NFL scouts was 4.78 at 248). These guys are just better at what they do than I am no matter how much training I do.

[Hunter]

Everyone you mentioned (except for Jordan) is the exception rather than the norm. Sure Gretzky was smallish but his speed on skates and his body control was unmatched (pure athleticsm). People have compared Gretzkys speed and body control to that of Barry Sanders. Buster Douglas was a complete fluke evidenced by his fights after Tyson. Douglas fought an unstable Mike Tyson with all kinds of things going on outside of the ring. No excuses for Mike because he had his ass handed to him, but Buster never went on to do anything else in boxing after he beat Mike. Now on your Jordan assessment... WAY OFF BASE!! Jordan got cut from his high school team his sophmore year because during his freshman year he was a star at the AAU level and came into his sophmore year with a big head (Jordan admitted it himself). Jordan had more physical ability than just about anybody ever to pick up a basketball. His 46" vert was matched only by very few. Again his body control, speed, and agility have yet to be match. The reason why he is the greatest basketball player of all time is because he COMBINED his natural ability with his tenacious ability to work hard and come through in a clutch. So again, the better athlete wins out most of the time. Another perfect example, Kurt Warner, tons of heart and good ability, but he's bounced around the league because he keeps losing his position because of injury AND better athletes beating him out (Bulger, Manning, and eventually Leinart). Arturro Gatti, another example, tons of heart and emotion, plus he sells tickets, but got his ass handed to him by Floyd Mayweather. Why? Because Floyd is a much better athlete than he is. Vinny Pazienza, again lots of heart, but when he fought Roy Jones he could only land 1 punch in two rounds and didn't land any in another round before being knocked senseless. I can go on and on with just about every sport ... except MMA. So your last sentence is competely true. And yes you can develop your athletic ability with plyos, weight training, diet, etc. But you can deny that some people are just blessed with better genetics that makes them that much better... naturally. I know for a fact that know matter how much I train I could never hit a baseball like Barry Bonds, or Big Papi, nor will I ever be able to run 4.2 like Donte Stallworth (my best for NFL scouts was 4.78 at 248). These guys are just better at what they do than I am no matter how much training I do.

Thank you for being civilized and correcting(very intresting info). I think we agree but are wording it differently athletic ability can talk you along way but its the drive in these athletes that makes them great here is a little story to go along with. I wrestled for a very succusful highschool wrestling team and got offers to wrestle d1 a wrestler a year older then me was pure talent but didn't have the drive that his younger brother a year younger then me did. The older one ended up wrestling for a junior college and the youngest won will be wrestling for a d1 school. I think with be agree that pure athleticism is a huge benifit but with athleticism often comes the drive to the best and when you couple those you have legends. Thank you for the intelligent debate. On a side note I ended up not wrestling in college due to the fact I could not make the 133 pound weight class any longer who would have figured I would hit a growth spurt at age 18 lol

[BgMc31]

Right on brotha!!! There is no need to become uncivilized in any of these debates. Because they really aren't world changing conversations, LOL!!! I think we do agree as well, just wording IS different. Like you I've seen tremendous talent gone to waste as well. I played high school football in Texas, played D1 college ball, 4yrs in the NFL (mostly practice squad, cut mid-season, or during training camp) and 5yrs of semi pro ball (inducted in the semi pro football hall of fame last year). I've seen guys with much more talent than me, but they didn't have the drive or committment that I had and now they're working at WalMart, selling drugs, or in jail. There are lots of Maurice Clarettes out there for sure!!!! Fvckin wasted talent really pisses me off!!!!