Ufc 76

**J-Dogg** · 09-23-2007, 01:35 PM

Biggest upsets ever? Wtf is up with the pride guys? IS the cage really that different?

**D-Bo Dre** · 09-23-2007, 02:01 PM

it was a huge upset,, but if u ask me Chuck had it coming to him.. He was the top MMA fighter at one point and took it for granted.. He didnt stay hungry i.e. Crocop.. Sad b/c a Liddel Silva matchup would have been huge!

**TR'05** · 09-23-2007, 02:09 PM

No, neither were the biggest ever IMO.

Serra over GSP IMHO will always be the biggest.

**sooners04** · 09-23-2007, 02:38 PM

Liddell can't handle descent or good strikers. Rampage is a good striker and he KO'd Chuck. Jardine is an abover average striker and he had a solid game plan against Chuck. Chuck would have been better off trying to take it to the ground or do something in the clinch. As far as Shogun and Griffin. Shogun thought he could beat Griffin early on the ground and gassed out.

**D-Bo Dre** · 09-23-2007, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by sooners04

Liddell can't handle descent or good strikers. Rampage is a good striker and he KO'd Chuck. Jardine is an abover average striker and he had a solid game plan against Chuck. Chuck would have been better off trying to take it to the ground or do something in the clinch. As far as Shogun and Griffin. Shogun thought he could beat Griffin early on the ground and gassed out.

Yup, he under estimated Forrest's gas tank.. And I have no idea why b/c Forrest has of the biggest hearts in the game..

**soo2bhuge** · 09-23-2007, 03:08 PM

I personally think Liddell was overrated over all these years. You watch him fight and all he does is a one-two punch combination. no leg kicks, no takedowns, he pretty much has the knockout power and good takedown defense. that may sound like enough but I don't even think his competition has been all that over the years. he's been getting away with knocking guys out because he does have that great knockout power and a very good chin but Keith Jardine did exactly what I thought he would, which was to use leg kicks. I think that he has been finally exposed. Guy Mezger was doing the same thing when they fought in Pride and he was winning the fight against Liddell primarily with kicks until he got knocked out. i don't know why more people haven't done that against Chuck over the years. obviously the counter for a kick is a straight punch but Keith did a great job going to the body and to Chuck's leg and weathering the storm of those straight punches in the first and second round.

BG · 09-23-2007, 03:34 PM

What I think is, these older fighters and pride fighters have been training with the same team for a long time and their game has stayed the same. Now you have well skilled, hungry younger fighters training with the best of the best, team Couture, Militech (SP) camps. Now their team comes up with the perfect winning game plan to be the older (as in fighting longer), then its just left up to the fighter go out and make it happen. Lately the have been. Look at Rampage, he has come so far since he started training with a new camp, I cant wait to see him fight Wandy, you know Rampage sure as shit will be able to get out of the clinch next time around, fuc'n guys amachine with aHUGE gas tank. Forrest he wanted that fight bad and he went and took it. Didnt make any of the mistakes he used to, progressed 10 fold since his last fight, one of the only guys to get KO'd and come back stronger. I cant wait to see Jardine and him fight again!

**J-Dogg** · 09-23-2007, 05:11 PM

You think that will be the next fight? Jardine Vs. Forest? Might not be a bad match up and winner gets beat up by Rampage?

I am a little baffled at it now but I don't think anyone is going to be able to beat Rampage for a little here. I just can't belive the hard time the pride guys are having. Most people, including me were expecting the Pride guys to come in and dominate the UFC guys. How can Shogun be so impressive in 2005, both with his amazing strikes and equally amazing wresting he is so well rounded...but lost to Forrest. I'm taking nothing from Forrest, the guy has the heart the size of a tire I expected him to be ready to fight, but not win every round....

**gya321** · 09-23-2007, 05:19 PM

Think lidell passed his prime. Jardine is an odd fighter, but got the job done

**J-Dogg** · 09-23-2007, 05:28 PM

With Randy fighting at his age....I don't see how Liddel can play the past the prime card.

I think his style works in the cage, but I just don't think it is as effective with someone who has = striking power and the ability to box and not just counter punch.

**gya321** · 09-23-2007, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

With Randy fighting at his age....I don't see how Liddel can play the past the prime card.

I think his style works in the cage, but I just don't think it is as effective with someone who has = striking power and the ability to box and not just counter punch.

True, but its crazy that Liddel hasnt gone the whole rounds in five years.

**Tazwell** · 09-23-2007, 05:49 PM

Liddel beat cotour twice, that is enough to prove he was a great fighter. I agrea that he is past his prime and can't compete with these younger faster strikers.

**J-Dogg** · 09-23-2007, 06:15 PM

Actually after watching the Liddel fight again, I'm not even a chuck fan but would like to see a rematch.

I think from the fight it is really easy to see Chuck is the better fighter, was just not prepared for the tech that Jardine used. He was out trained, not out fought.

The 2nd round to me though, was not as impressive as Rogan made it out to be for Jardine. He had a knock down, but I think Chuck still won the 2nd. The 3rd Chuck was in trouble and if it went 5 rounds....Chuck would have been knocked out.

If there was a rematch though, I'd bet the house on Chuck and I don't even like him.

**J-Dogg** · 09-23-2007, 06:16 PM

Also,

Jardine fought like Chris Bird. He was not going for a knock out. His knock down could have been a knock out but he was not looking for it...he was trying to score points the entire fight.

I hope this does not turn UFC into the boxing matches we watch today.

**soo2bhuge** · 09-23-2007, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

I think from the fight it is really easy to see Chuck is the better fighter, was just not prepared for the tech that Jardine used. He was out trained, not out fought.

I disagree. He was definitely outfought and i'll even go as far as to say he is overmatched. Watch Chuck's fights. All he does is throw the same combinations in every single fight. Dont get me wrong, he knocks people out with it, but Jardine used the perfect gameplan to beat him. I think Forrest will beat Chuck as well. Forrest has great kicks and would use Jardine's plan and losen Chuck up with leg and body kicks. Jardine has always had devastating kicks and that was just made more clear in this fight.

**Panzerfaust** · 09-23-2007, 07:15 PM

I told you there are problems at Chute Boxe, Wanderlei got the hell out of there and I bet Shogun follows soon.

You also can't forget that Shogun got married 2-3wks ago in the middle of training for this fight. He has never gassed before and is a cardio machine. Something is wrong and I expect him to either fix it or leave Chute Boxe.

**J-Dogg** · 09-23-2007, 07:46 PM

"but Jardine used the perfect gameplan to beat him"

Which is exactly my point. He could not beat chuck again because he would be prepared for that game plan. A leg kick is an easy block.

**D-Bo Dre** · 09-23-2007, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

I told you there are problems at Chute Boxe, Wanderlei got the hell out of there and I bet Shogun follows soon.

You also can't forget that Shogun got married 2-3wks ago in the middle of training for this fight. He has never gassed before and is a cardio machine. Something is wrong and I expect him to either fix it or leave Chute Boxe.

What a lame excuse.. Forrest took hit to him plain and simple.. Give credit where credit is do.

**Panzerfaust** · 09-23-2007, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by D-Bo Dre

What a lame excuse.. Forrest took hit to him plain and simple.. Give credit where credit is do.

Excuse?

No, it is a fact! No sweat off my sack that he lost, but if you think that was a 100% Shogun, you are delusional.

Forrest fought good, its not his fault Shogun did not take him seriously. Now Shogun knows. haha

It was all over the place that Shogun wasn't training hard and not taking Forrest serious. It was all over the Brazilian forums, apparently someone who trains at Chute Boxe leaked that info. I'm sure Randy knew that as befre the fight he said "I have reasons why Forrest will win due to some factors but I will not go into them right now".

Its Shogun's fault, there is no excuses to be made. He was submitted, that is a clean cut victory. Shogun was just served a wakeup call.

**rooster101** · 09-23-2007, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

I told you there are problems at Chute Boxe, Wanderlei got the hell out of there and I bet Shogun follows soon.

You also can't forget that Shogun got married 2-3wks ago in the middle of training for this fight. He has never gassed before and is a cardio machine. Something is wrong and I expect him to either fix it or leave Chute Boxe.

my thoughts exactly..

**J-Dogg** · 09-23-2007, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

Excuse?

No, it is a fact! No sweat off my sack that he lost, but if you think that was a 100% Shogun, you are delusional.

Forrest fought good, its not his fault Shogun did not take him seriously. Now Shogun knows. haha

It was all over the place that Shogun wasn't training hard and not taking Forrest serious. It was all over the Brazilian forums, apparently someone who trains at Chute Boxe leaked that info. I'm sure Randy knew that as befre the fight he said "I have reasons why Forrest will win due to some factors but I will not go into them right now".

Its Shogun's fault, there is no excuses to be made. He was submitted, that is a clean cut victory. Shogun was just served a wakeup call.

Thats what everyone said after Cro Crop lost the first time...and the second!

**Panzerfaust** · 09-23-2007, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

Thats what everyone said after Cro Crop lost the first time...and the second!

Is that honestly the best thing you can come up with? Pathetic!

There is a big difference between a 25yr old losing one fight and CroCop losing and talking about "I'm to old for this shit, I should just quit". CroCop is not mentally in it anymore and might retire soon (per Dana).

Shogun lost one fight, its not the end of the world. He had to lose eventually and now that he has, we will see how he comes back so dont be a fair weather fan.

I will let you in on a little secret, I bet Fedor loses a fight soon too. It is impossible to win every single fight.

**Logan13** · 09-23-2007, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

Thats what everyone said after Cro Crop lost the first time...and the second!

Everytime a Pride fighter steps into the octagon and gets beat, which happens more often than not, all Pride sympathizers come up with all these excuses. I do not care why someone lost; got married, had a tummy ache two weeks prior, didn't train well enough. You either win or lose, and it's all within in each fighters control. Forrest beat Shogun, there is nothing else to say.

**Logan13** · 09-23-2007, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

I will let you in on a little secret, I bet Fedor loses a fight soon too. It is impossible to win every single fight.

Question is, will you be in here making up excuses for why he lost?

**Panzerfaust** · 09-24-2007, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by Logan13

Question is, will you be in here making up excuses for why he lost?

Nope, I don't make excuses. Not my problem if they dont train right and then lose.

**CJC1981** · 09-24-2007, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Logan13

Everytime a Pride fighter steps into the octagon and gets beat, which happens more often than not, all Pride sympathizers come up with all these excuses. I do not care why someone lost; got married, had a tummy ache two weeks prior, didn't train well enough. You either win or lose, and it's all within in each fighters control. Forrest beat Shogun, there is nothing else to say.

I agree. Everyone who thought pride fighters were head and shoulder above ufc fighters were wrong. You guys bought into the smoke and mirrors, and the gigantic jumbo tron. After fedor comes over and gets beaten down by the old man, you're going to have to ask yourself if maybe you overestimated the talent level of the former pride roster. I'm not a pride hater, crocop is my favorite fighter, but i just never agreed with the popular idea that pride was light years ahead of the ufc in talent.
IMO shogun losing to griffin = shogun over rated.

**Panzerfaust** · 09-24-2007, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by CJC1981

IMO shogun losing to griffin = shogun over rated.

Typical uneducated TUF fanboy ideology! GSP must be overrated too, he got destroyed by a complete nobody in Serra. That is 10x worse than Shogun losing to Forrest (who is a very good fighter).

But I understand your thinking, GSP will be the WW god once again when he gets the belt back but until then, he is way over rated.

**TR'05** · 09-24-2007, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

...GSP must be overrated too, he got destroyed by a complete nobody in Serra. That is 10x worse than Shogun losing to Forrest (who is a very good fighter).

But I understand your thinking, GSP will be the WW god once again when he gets the belt back but until then, he is way over rated.

Exactly.

Also, anyone who think Shogun is overrated based on the fighter who showed up Saturday night is in no position, whatsoever, to make comments (generalizations) about him as a fighter.

**TR'05** · 09-24-2007, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

I told you there are problems at Chute Boxe, Wanderlei got the hell out of there and I bet Shogun follows soon.

You also can't forget that Shogun got married 2-3wks ago in the middle of training for this fight. He has never gassed before and is a cardio machine. Something is wrong and I expect him to either fix it or leave Chute Boxe.

Also, for those who think what Murilo has listed are excuses for Shogun's loss are missing the point of the post!

These are potential reasons why the Shogun everyone is use to seeing did not step into "the octagon" Saturday night. There are no good excuses for losing, but there sure are reasons why a different fighter showed up Saturday.

**abombing** · 09-24-2007, 10:03 AM

Shogun looked like shit, but let's not forget this man beat Rampages ass! This is the fight game people! Anything can happen, and styles make fights. Forrest out boxed, out wrestled and out conditioned shogun. This doesn't mean Shogun is overrated it means he had a bad night. Remember he's only 25 also. Liddell on the other hand is 38. He needs to rethink his training or quit the game. People who can handle his punching power have figured out some holes in his game and are exposing them.

**Diamonite** · 09-24-2007, 12:35 PM

I'm glad Forrest won. Good stuff. Chuck is a good fighter. I honestly think he has been hit in the head too many times or parties to hard following a win or w.e IMO

**godkilla** · 09-24-2007, 12:46 PM

shogun gassed, end of story. i think the liddel fight was more shocking than the shogun fight. liddel took more kicks and punches than rodney king for christ sakes, not to mention he got dropped in the 2nd.

**CJC1981** · 09-24-2007, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

Typical uneducated TUF fanboy ideology! GSP must be overrated too, he got destroyed by a complete nobody in Serra. That is 10x worse than Shogun losing to Forrest (who is a very good fighter).

But I understand your thinking, GSP will be the WW god once again when he gets the belt back but until then, he is way over rated.

I will admit, i have seen more than a few TUF episodes, but i have been a mma fan for around 8 years now. I will also agree with you that forrest and shogun are both very good fighters, but griffin vs shogun doesn't equal serra vs st. pierre. St. pierre got caught by a seasoned vet, went down, and couldn't recover. Shogun (#1 ranked LHW in the world, poster boy for pride dominance) got dominated for almost 3 rounds then sub'd. I stand by my point that many pride fighters were over rated by many people. Why are you so quick to assume shogun didn't train hard enough for griffin? I't was his 1st fight in America, his 1st fight in the undisputed # 1 mma organization in the world. Are you that sure he didn't bring his a game? I think he came with everything he had and got dominated by a better fighter/reality show contest winner. Or maybe i just don't follow pride fanboy ideology.

**zimmy** · 09-24-2007, 02:10 PM

will admit, i have seen more than a few TUF episodes, but i have been a mma fan for around 8 years now

that's just it... fan...w/ training comes a different opinion on what occured in a fight.

lol p.s. muriloninja

serra unknown :P i know the point you were making but lol :P

**QuieTSToRM33** · 09-24-2007, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by zimmy

lol p.s. muriloninja

serra unknown :P i know the point you were making but lol :P

you guys are cute

**Idunno** · 09-24-2007, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by CJC1981

I will admit, i have seen more than a few TUF episodes, but i have been a mma fan for around 8 years now. I will also agree with you that forrest and shogun are both very good fighters, but griffin vs shogun doesn't equal serra vs st. pierre. St. pierre got caught by a seasoned vet, went down, and couldn't recover. Shogun (#1 ranked LHW in the world, poster boy for pride dominance) got dominated for almost 3 rounds then sub'd. I stand by my point that many pride fighters were over rated by many people. Why are you so quick to assume shogun didn't train hard enough for griffin? I't was his 1st fight in America, his 1st fight in the undisputed # 1 mma organization in the world. Are you that sure he didn't bring his a game? I think he came with everything he had and got dominated by a better fighter/reality show contest winner. Or maybe i just don't follow pride fanboy ideology.

I don't know if we watched the same fight but I didn't see GSP get "caught" by Serra and unable to recover.. I saw what looked like GSP slip and then Serra got to him and hit him whil he was not battle ready.. shit happens in a fight and if you can't get your feet then the other guy will help you find the floor... I do not think Serra was any where NEAR as good a fighter as GSP. Serra is a dick who got lucky IMO.. and he has SEVERE little-man-syndrome.

**Logan13** · 09-24-2007, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Idunno

I don't know if we watched the same fight but I didn't see GSP get "caught" by Serra and unable to recover.. I saw what looked like GSP slip and then Serra got to him and hit him whil he was not battle ready.. shit happens in a fight and if you can't get your feet then the other guy will help you find the floor... I do not think Serra was any where NEAR as good a fighter as GSP. Serra is a dick who got lucky IMO.. and he has SEVERE little-man-syndrome.

there is a big difference between GSP's loss and shoguns. GSP got caught and lost. Shogun, although not owned, was beaten for much of the three rounds and then submitted. He did not just "get caught", he got beat..........

**QuieTSToRM33** · 09-25-2007, 12:19 AM

Slip or no slip ... you can say GSP got caught or you can say Serra outstriked him.

The same goes with Mauricio, wedding or no wedding.

You have to be prepared before a fight, and you have to be on your toes during the fight.

Either way ... A loss is a loss.

Stop making excuses. If you "get caught", you obviously weren't doing what you were supposed to.

**Idunno** · 09-25-2007, 01:57 PM

I wasn't trying to make an excuse but correct the statement I feel is innacurate in that "St. pierre got caught by a seasoned vet, went down, and couldn't recover." I don't think this is the case but regardless GSP lost and will be back. I just have to admit I think Serra is an unshorn-turttle-necked-smegma-spewing dick

**Pooks** · 09-25-2007, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Idunno

I wasn't trying to make an excuse but correct the statement I feel is innacurate in that "St. pierre got caught by a seasoned vet, went down, and couldn't recover." I don't think this is the case but regardless GSP lost and will be back. I just have to admit I think Serra is an unshorn-turttle-necked-smegma-spewing dick

I know what u mean, but thats what getting caught is..... GSP made an error; he slipped, he got caught.

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