Just watched page/silva 1 & 2.

**J-Dogg** · 11-29-2008, 05:33 PM

I'm a fan of both, but a bigger fan of Page.

I don't think Page got "owned" in either fight.

Honestly, in the first fight. He was winning that fight. He complains to the ref when they stand it up, and for the right reason. He was working wandy on the ground. Wandy was still defending, but Page was controling that fight on the ground.

When it was stood up, Wandy took over on the stand up and won. Caught him with a shot, and closed.

The 2nd fight, Page had the first round. The round ended with Page fully mounted on Wandy. Wandy took it on the feet in the 2nd round again.

Wandy won both fights, but it was not a dominate display or anything. THe knock outs were brutal, but all of Wandy's knock outs normally are.

I think Shogun dominated Page for sure, he did what he wanted, when he wanted. Wandy definatly did not though.

/flame away

**yannick35** · 11-29-2008, 07:25 PM

I dont know why people wont enjoy this fight, i mean the rest of the card is solid this is just another great addition to that PPV.

I am looking forward to see Rampage VS Wandy 3, and i do think that the outcome might be different this time.
Wandy seems to have lost a bit of that killer instinct, dont know if its because he is not allowed to take steroids in the UFC, is body has changed so much has well.

**WARMachine** · 11-30-2008, 12:48 AM

^^^ Thats a baseless accusation.

Although its probably true. Lol... Shogun is a guy who's REALLY looked like hes been juicing.

Compare his body from Pride days to the Forrest fight. You'll see what i mean.

And like both of you guys i kinda agree.

The fight might be different this time. Both guys look like different fighters. But honestly, i see it ending the same. If Page fight his fight and use his wrestling like in the first bout, he'll be on his way to a win.

**yannick35** · 11-30-2008, 04:27 AM

war4BTT did almost all the Pride guys juice?

**J-Dogg** · 11-30-2008, 01:54 PM

Most guys in the days of pride were probably juicing.

I honestly hope Shogun and Wandy get back that agressive, pace pushing fighting style that had, it made fights so much better. The Macheeta and run & leg kick fights just don't seem as fun to watch.

Wandy/Shogun stomping, kneeing and swinging made fights.

I'd like to see page really get with a good camp too. Wolfslair is the best he's been too so far. Short of that, he's never really had top notch guys to train with. With Wandy training with Randy, you never know what game plan to expect, but it will be solid if he has Randy in his corner.

Page in the first 2 fights, was the better fighter on the ground. Wandy had the stand up. Page's striking is probably the strongest thing in his play book right now though, so I think he'll keep it standing.

Wandy has tended to stay away from trying to out-swing people, so I thinkt he striking will probably be more technical in this fight, as opposed to the more agressive style we saw in pride.

Either way, it's going to be a great fight.

**PrideFEDOR** · 11-30-2008, 04:21 PM

At the beginning and UFC fighters juiced, Yannick ! Shamrock or Mark Kerr. Tim Silvia got caught with winstrol in the system too. I believe they did the right thing. I really think that there should be some sort of long term medical insurance for fighters. They're the ones put their body thru hell and get all the injuries and I know from experience what blows to the head do to u ( have a good example in my family). A split eyebrow can be fixed easy , but internal damage and micro concussions(sp) will turn u into walking zombie in the future. If it was up to me, I'd charge every fighter $200 per fight or something for a big insurance fund that would've taken care of all pre-post fighting MRI and CAT scans and special facilities (sort of like retirement communities) that specialized only on fighters and their internal and external/long term and short term injuries. Right now , you are basically on your own ! U can piss blood for weeks and throwing up after the fight because of the damage and brain injuries and sometimes people dont get to the top. They being used for a few fights and thrown out like dirty socks. I've seen this tape of Ultimate fighting. It was Makamoto Clan vs. World Team . Makamoto Clan is a bunch of Ukranians who train together by this japanese dude and they never tap or give up (those kind of principles). Long story short there are 5 makamotos and 5 others. The third fight there's an american father of 3, BJJ black belt. AS soon as fight started, ukranian kid was able to put him down , mountained him and started pounding. He pounded maybe 5-8 times hard with his fists. Ref jumps in ( and in those days it took a while before refs interfere). The American dude gets up goes into his corner of "Tatami" and falls down. Long story short , they couldn't bring him back - he died right there. There were all kind newspaper articles on all front pages calling Makamoto's murderers etc. My question is who will take care of that dude's family ? 3 kids and a wife. We had a cop killed on my street last year ( I live in 99,9% white neighborhood) and his wife was awarded 2 million dollars plus all the charities and funds they made in that cop's name. What about a fighter's wifes and familys ? Wht about fighers themselves? Juice up if u can get away with it that's my belief. Phil Barroni is a def. juice head , but never been caught. Bigger, Stronger, Faster - great movie , shows how those tests being "hidden" for some athlete. DO u think that if Brook Lesnar brings so much money to UFC , they wouldn't close their eyes on him juicing ? Im sure they would. They will probably sponsor a new designer steroid developed for his ass too !

**WARMachine** · 12-01-2008, 11:51 AM

Phil Barroni is a def. juice head , but never been caught

Phil Baroni has been caught bro. He tested positive when he fought Frank Shamrock.

BTW, i completely agree with you there bro. There insurance policies are a joke. There is almost no protection for a fighter. Something should really be done about it. There are too many fighters who get hurt and cannot afford the cost of medical care to be properly helped.

war4BTT did almost all the Pride guys juice?

I dont wanna say all did. But most are obvious. HammerHouse. Chute Boxe. Many of the Jap stars.

**PrideFEDOR** · 12-01-2008, 02:56 PM

Oh I didn't know Phil got caught ! I really believe when u overjuice and put so much muscle on, your cardio suffers a lot. Plus I dont wanna imagine what they do to take all the illegal substances outta their bodies before the fight. I mean if u juiced for lets say 3-4 month and use some sort of cleansing (sp) , you're going to have big zeros as your hormone levels. U fight at this condition , u'll suffer. Who cares that ur body looks good. U winded easily because more muscle = more oxygen that ur gasping to get. When I saw Baroni fought Evan Tanner, he came out all muscled up and threw some bombs for a few seconds , but 1 minute into the first round a dude was as good as a piece of meat used for a heavy bag. Then when asked he said he was a bit " overtrianed". I was like " yeah ok" ... Shamrock too , winded all the time. Quitting on Mark Hunt was the best example. I dont know , but I believe that if someone decided to juice while competing MMA , do it for faster recovery at the levels that won't cause u your fight. JMO

**J-Dogg** · 12-01-2008, 03:34 PM

They don't have to really be taking somthing to bulk them up. Olypian athletes use them, even distance runners.

If you are using AS, and train to fight, it's going to help you. If you use AS like a body builder, to put on size like Phil does, you will look like a body builder, not a fighter.

It all depends on how you train and how well your body puts on muscle. I could see how Tren or Dbol could hinder you as a fighter, but I don't see how OT, Anavar or winny could hurt you.

I'm sure Wandy was using in the pride days. I honestly do feel in the pride days, they "built" fighters. Fighters (page included) have come forward and said they were offered money to throw a fight. Wandy is a GREAT fighter, but honestly....can someone really go 5 years with out loosing a fight? Come to to the UFC and loose 3 of 4? CroCrop was unstoppable in pride also, and he looses in his warm up fights. It's just fishy to me.

**Brown Ninja** · 12-02-2008, 01:09 AM

Crocop was a head case during that Hunt fight. I am not sure he was ever one of the guilty parties but then again one never knows.

**Brown Ninja** · 12-02-2008, 01:11 AM

I'm pulling for Wandy but I have bad feeling about this one. Page has come a long way. I am not sure if he will be there mentally but I feel like he has improved more than Wandy since their first two fights.

**PrideFEDOR** · 12-02-2008, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

They don't have to really be taking somthing to bulk them up. Olypian athletes use them, even distance runners.

If you are using AS, and train to fight, it's going to help you. If you use AS like a body builder, to put on size like Phil does, you will look like a body builder, not a fighter.

It all depends on how you train and how well your body puts on muscle. I could see how Tren or Dbol could hinder you as a fighter, but I don't see how OT, Anavar or winny could hurt you.

I'm sure Wandy was using in the pride days. I honestly do feel in the pride days, they "built" fighters. Fighters (page included) have come forward and said they were offered money to throw a fight. Wandy is a GREAT fighter, but honestly....can someone really go 5 years with out loosing a fight? Come to to the UFC and loose 3 of 4? CroCrop was unstoppable in pride also, and he looses in his warm up fights. It's just fishy to me.

Nah bro , its not fishy. Its just anyone can beat anyone on any given day. " luck of a striker". Cro Cop ( btw, why did u called him CroCrop

?) underestimated the guy who was basically , not a "noname", but he was invisible and it supposed to be a "welcoming fight" for CroCop. Personally, I always compare everything to my experience simply because its easier for me to relate to situation and understand it. Im a big dude and I move slow . Plus I a teddy bear with girls and never push my weight around in company. So when it comes to the fight, majority people never expect me to be quick and even less people expect a guy with my size kick my head level. So I've been underestimated before. Before I started my biz. I was bouncing for 5 years in Manhattan , Brooklyn, LI and SI.... I had my share of drunken idiots thinking they're bulletproof and seen many bouncers get knocked out too. Anyone can beat anyone. Imagine yourself being a great fighter and dominate some type of show that is considered to be #1 in the world. Next thing u know , u have to fight in a different show. You already think that its not as prestige show as u fought in before , that it doesn't have so many world known top fighters ( UFC is popular , but its popular in USA and few other countries. Pride was world known - MMA Championship, that held fighters from all over the world). So anyways, you're fighting in this lower grade show with a fighter that isn't even rated in the first 20 best fighters in the world. You, on the other hand , considered to be one of the top contenders. You prolly wouldn't even train too hard to prepare yourself to this fight. BUT, your opponent on the other hand , sees you as who you really are - one of the top fighters in the world. He understands that if he loses, it'll be no biggie since he's an underdog and noone expects him to win anyways. But if he does win, its an opportunity of a lifetime for him. So what he does is training his ass off , puting himself thru hell , to prepare his body for the fight with the best of the best. When the fight happens, the underdog simply in better condition , stronger and more focused because it means everything for him. And you're relaxed because in your mind there are only a couple fighters (if even that) in this show stand a chance against you in a fight. Next thing you know , you're getting caught with "MAWASHI-GIRI" to the head. There are two different ways to do this kick. One - u snap it - i.e. Boom! And u return ur foot back by bending ur knee. OR you can put everything in the kick and u're actually aiming a few inches past the head ( if u kick with ur right foot: THIS IS YOUR AIM>>>>

<<<<THIS IS YOUR TARGET.). If u miss it , your leg will pull your whole body ( but u can do the 360 spin), but its way stronger than a snap kick. From a big dude like Gonzaga, if it connects - its a dead sentence( doesn't matter if u have a chin made out outta titanium/magnesium alloy at General Motors) - YOU WILL GET KNOCKED OUT! That's what happened ! Props to Gabriel Gonzaga ! The guy secured his place- good boy !

Btw, Phil Baroni is a bodybuilder. Watch this : http://forums.steroid.com/newreply.p...eply&p=4318506

**PrideFEDOR** · 12-02-2008, 06:33 AM

J-D , about Var and Winny I totally agree , they wont hurt ur training like Fina or dbol would (I dont like that winny dries out my knees and anavar causes back pumps and other pumps all over the body). I know some people put up to 20lbs on 40mg ED doses of OT in a short period of time too.

I'd do real naposim though. At small doses , in the mornings its a good recovery drug and it's the only oral that makes me feel great. Maybe because I grow every day from day 1. Muscles feel full although smooth. Would you J-D ever run dbol ? I'd change my OT for naps if I have a chance even if OT is like triple of dbol's price.

**Voice of Reason** · 12-02-2008, 08:35 AM

Effects of steroids and MMA : http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12191-hormones.html

**goose** · 12-02-2008, 08:55 AM

Great post

to much muscle and AAS will harm a MMA fighter,thats what I love about fedor.

Originally Posted by PrideFEDOR

Oh I didn't know Phil got caught ! I really believe when u overjuice and put so much muscle on, your cardio suffers a lot. Plus I dont wanna imagine what they do to take all the illegal substances outta their bodies before the fight. I mean if u juiced for lets say 3-4 month and use some sort of cleansing (sp) , you're going to have big zeros as your hormone levels. U fight at this condition , u'll suffer. Who cares that ur body looks good. U winded easily because more muscle = more oxygen that ur gasping to get. When I saw Baroni fought Evan Tanner, he came out all muscled up and threw some bombs for a few seconds , but 1 minute into the first round a dude was as good as a piece of meat used for a heavy bag. Then when asked he said he was a bit " overtrianed". I was like " yeah ok" ... Shamrock too , winded all the time. Quitting on Mark Hunt was the best example. I dont know , but I believe that if someone decided to juice while competing MMA , do it for faster recovery at the levels that won't cause u your fight. JMO

**PrideFEDOR** · 12-02-2008, 03:17 PM

First , THANK U ! Second, too much muscle will hurt any fighter. Its better to have more flexible, elastic, long, fast muscles vs. big bulky muscles. I have 20'' arms and its more than enough for me. If I had any bigger, it'd be way to difficult keep em up for a long period of time. On the streets its one thing, but in the cage or on the ring its harder due to the longer fight. Same thing with legs. Most white people epecially the ones that came from Vikings ( scandinavians) have big legs as it is. If I was squatting and working them heavy , first I wouldn't be able to kick like I need to because of the size and Im sure I wouldn't be able to be as flexible. There's one pro BBer I believe who can do a split , but ask him to kick " mawashi-giri" ( roundkick) and u'll see what I mean. I respect every sport,even Chess players or the ones that push a rock on the ice surface and a bunch of momos from the same team trying to clean the way with those little brushes lmao, BUT I BELIEVE if you are big you have to know how to fight , how to move that weight , otherwise you are just big for nothing !

**Brown Ninja** · 12-02-2008, 07:19 PM

What if i am big and really good at working hard? Am I still big for nothing?

**WARMachine** · 12-02-2008, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by PrideFEDOR

First , THANK U ! Second, too much muscle will hurt any fighter. Its better to have more flexible, elastic, long, fast muscles vs. big bulky muscles. I have 20'' arms and its more than enough for me. If I had any bigger, it'd be way to difficult keep em up for a long period of time. On the streets its one thing, but in the cage or on the ring its harder due to the longer fight.

Totally agree with this statement.

It think its funny when guys from Football and pro wrestling think they can come into this sport and hang.

Lesnar may be the exception, but guys like Bobby Lashley etc.... They will not have the wind to go the required rounds.

Randleman is another prime example.