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Hey guys I need your help on this one. There's a place not far from where I live that teaches Shaolin Kempo Karate. What's that? I went to ask the master over there what it is exactly and he told me it's a combinaison of almost every martial art's strenghts without their weaknesses. He described it to me like the best martial art in the world(I'm exagerating a little bit lol). Anyways what I want to know: Is it useful in real life (street fights)? in MMA? thank you.
It all depends on what you are looking for bro. What is the goal of taking it?
yeah, and probably he was the one who created it... is bullshit bro, wanna learn how to fight, crosstraining is the answear, bjj with MT, pretty much train MMA.Quote:
Originally Posted by rookie28
I have been boxing for the last 2 years now. I would like to enlarge my fighting skills. I seriously don't think becoming a pro fighter but who knows. It's more for personal achievement and something that would be useful in my life. I was just asking this question because it sounds so great I wouldn't need to go to a bjj course, then muy thai course, then wrestling .... I would only need to do shaolin kempo karate and learn all of these arts at the same time. That's why I was curious to know if it's as effective as the master described it to me. If it was then why I never heard of it before this week?? thank you and I hope someone can help me with this.
I dont even know how to respond to your answear? you wanna learn how to fight, but you dont wanna train? so you want to go to some dojo that the master tell's you that after a week, you will be able to beat 10 guys with one punch??? then yeah... get some shaolin kempo karate, that's the shit!
hahaha no bro you didn't understand nothing of what I said but thx for trying to help. How can you say that I don't want to train if I have been working my ass off boxing in the last 2 years. Let me try to clarify it to you. Where I actually train is simply boxing and kickboxing. I want to enlarge my fighting skills. This means I would need to do some muy thai courses then some bjj courses then some wrestling courses and the list goes on. There's a fighting club that offers all of these courses but they don't fit with my schedule and then I found this shaolin kempo karate dojo near my house where I'm supposed to be able to combine all of these arts in one. Hopefully you understand what I'm asking for.
is he going to teach you how to grapple standing?? or some sort of striking grappling or somethin? you wanna learn how to grapple, bjj, catch wrestilng, wanna know how to strike, MT, boxing, there are no secrets, Go to an MMA dojo, you'll learn everything you have to learn there...
thanks for the information but these are things I already knew. I was just asking if someone knows about the effectiveness of shaolin kempo karate.
TKD rules
Kenpo is cool but similar to most of the other martial arts... I would stick with the boxing and kickboxing then move to bjj for grappling... the term shaolin is a temple and Kenpo karate is the art.... are you asking about the effectiveness of kenpo? If he hyped up the rest then I don't know what he is crossing... what I have noticed is that many karate dojo's now have to appeal to the new rave of mma so they talk big game about how they cover all those dynamics and then when they get you in there, they just teach you plain ol kenpo or whatever else it is like tkd, etc...
In terms of MMA? Practially zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by rookie28
If you have never had a grappling backround, then id start training BJJ ASAP if you intend to ever fight. Pro or AM
I think any type of martial art (mostly) would be useful for self defense on the street. Friend of mine takes a form of Karate and he learns some mean strikes to use of the persons throat, knees, and so forth.
And every martial artist has a weakness. An opponent just has to find it and exploit it.
I got a huge Kenpo school 5 minutes from my house all the top WKA guys in Canada train there for there uncoming competition.
The only thing i cannot stand is the musical forms, and the point system fighting, other then that i have been to the school many times, they also do a open door day twice a year and put on a great show.
Kenpo looks really cool.
thanks guys for the answers it seems like I should keep up with the real things. I'll try to find an MMA club that gives Muy thai and bjj courses that would fit with my schedule. My question might sound stupid but is kenpo the same as shaolin kempo karate? thank you
Where are you located?
Im sure i can recommned a place...
If he's not trying to become a pro fighter and everything is for his personal achievments , I dont think he has to do BJJ ASAP, maybe basics. If he'll fight at competitions then yes , definatelly he'll need to have grapling skills etc. But on the streets for personal achievments and protection its a bad idea to go to the ground in a first place. If u get jumped -same thing, no ground for you ( takedown defence only). And about Kempo is being crap and all that , I have to disagree with that. This kid has boxing background only. Kenpo will teach him all the basic leg work etc. Who knows how things will work out. I learned every kick possible in Wu-shu school when I was 12. I was stiff as a piece of plywood at first and in a few months I could do the split ( neutral) and could pick a book of matches from the floor with my mouth and hands behind my back. Then all Van Damme movies came out and I did two chairs thing and still have a bunch of pictures where I do that. The only thing my leg muscles weren't strong enough to be able to sit longer than a minute , but that was more than enough to take a picture. :lol: hehe . My point is Boxing background is great . There's no other martial art imo ( not even mui-thai) where u can learn better striking skills. Even though u can learn elbows in MUI THAi, fist punches and all the movements are better in boxing jmo. Plus the missing elbows he'll learn in kempo ( prolly even more ways that mui thai allows). After that he'll learn how to put combinations using both hands and feet ( like jab,right followed by roundkick) etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by war4BTT
I agree on the fact that if u dont have any fighting experience and planning to storm MMA world with Kenpo skills , IT WILL NOT WORK. But to stretch the legs and learn the basics its great !
Ah you ask an interesting question Grasshopper !!!! :wg:
I'll break it to you straight up: He lied. Anyone who touts a single martial art as the end-all-be-all is doing their best to sell you a dream, get you in the dojo, and helping them to earn the rent. It might give you some different ideas and martial aspects, but that's about it.
An honest instructor with courage and integrity would've laid out the disadvantages of a particular style as well as the strengths. If you wanna do the high kicks on Broadway, it'll be good for you and your flexibility. But you'll get PWNED in a real fight with all that Van Damme nonsense.
I'd ask him if his style was so effective, why aren't there any shaolin kempo karate masters in the UFC? Even GSP has to supplement his kyokushin karate (which is one of THE hardest styles of karate) with BJJ, wrestling, and Muay Thai. That should tell you something...
Some kenpo school teach the very basic ground skills, like armbars and chocks and takedowns but you learn all this after brown belt.
Some schools have something call free fight where you can spar pertty much the same has in MMA practice, notice i said practice not real fight competition.
The school near my house is not like that, they have ground fighting but barely touch it.
Its really a shame because the school is huge they have fitness kickboxing, getting a few MMA classes would be amazing, they have all the equipment, a ring, punching bags, and more.
kenpo = shaolin kempo karate???
And yes I've asked myself if it was that effective then why isn't there any shaolin kempo karate pro fighters or instructors. By the way the master fought once in TKO organisation i think and he lost by referee stoppage in the first round. That's what makes me hesitate.
CSAR, u are a smart guy ! I read some of your posts in the past, but I have to disagree with you on this one !! And if u decide to reply , Im asking u "PLEASE READ MY THING FIRST " , not just first two sentenses ! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by CSAR
Dude , you can train in your basement if you want! If two fighters meet and one learned his kicks in Kempo and another one in kickboxing or his momma's garage, so what ? IT doesn't mean dick in real fight !
Not everything about UFC ! UFC has a bunch of rules , weight categories and a ref. on top of that. Dont even compare UFC to a street fight bro. U can get ur ass whoopped on the street even if u're UFC champ. U can get hit on the street 10 times where each of those hits will be so incapitating that u wont know what to do. Oh and btw , all of those hits will be against the rules in UFC competition! Krav Maga master will rape BJJ on the streets ! U know why ? Because its made for that, for street fighting , with no rules , no weight classes, no refferie. I worked as boucer for 5 years and I've seen how BJJ guy sitting on top of the dude got his head opened with bottle of cheap champain. And there are many reasons why there's no masters of some Shaolin Kempo in UFC same reason why there's no Savate masters, Krav-MAga masters, Kali masters, Drunken Monkey shitting on Crouching Tiger Style masters etc. There are not many practitioners, rules in UFC and many more! Even Gracie said its not Ultimate Fighting anymore . The champ of UFC isnt the best fighter in the world , its a guy who learned how to apply the UFC rules in order to win it. IMO , Gracies were winners back then simply because they invented it to their advantage! Noone is going allow a punch that is going to make u handycapped or kill you. None is going to allow u to gauge someone's eye outta the socket. Its business ! We all know what happen to original UFC. Real fight is different . In real fight Kenny Florian with black belt in BJJ can fight Tim Silvia who doesn't or GAbriel Gonzaga ! Would it make a difference if Gonzaga went to Kempo to learn how to kick ? OF COURSE NOT !
About GSP!
First , Kyokusinkay doesn't even have punches in the face. So its obviously not an answer to everything. SAme as BJJ, MT or other martial art. U TRAIN FOR SOMETHING UR PLANNING TO COMPETE IN!
He was just practicing kyokushinkay and BJJ he started learning at 12-13 years. And the reason he did so because his karate teacher died hahaha Yea, it tells me a lot ! He saw the future I guess;) HE figured that he's already 12 and soon going to become a UFC champ , and EVERYONE knows that you can't be a good fighter if ur some pathetic kyokushin-kay karate-do student. Its all Van Damme nonesense unless u learn it from MT, right ? WRONG ! You can train everywhere and anywhere ! U gave example of kyokusinkay ! Where was it invented and by whom ? Master Oyama right ? Where ? The dude got himself ISOLATED for 9 YEARS in the mountains. No human contact whatsoever ! That's where he developed it. And GSP, I never heard of him being a top kyokushinkay fighter. Even if he was , there's no money in it.
Hey Rookie28,
You'll need to work it out for yourself. All those fighting traditions have teachings that decay with every generation of instructor. American Kenpo was developed by Ed Parker who studied KeMpo while he was in Hawaii. It was street fighting for modern times. That was in the 1950's. Kenpo does have some grappling in it, all but in the later stages. Grappling is good to learn, but don't forget if you go to the ground because you're comfortable grappling and then 3 of his mates come around the corner then you're ****ed. Fighting from the ground while you've got some guy in a hold is the worst position to be in! Unless you're in a cage and everyone is civilised about it...like in a competition.
If there's one thing I've learnt about dojos is that they're full of egos. Guys who wanna be "the tough guy". To busy wearing black belts to go and imbarrass themselves in a fight.
There's no harm in trying it out bro. Even if it's a heap of shit you'll learn somethin'. (probably learn what not to do....)
Good luck.
If you are going to fight in MMA or want to apply your art to the streets then there is not much choice you need to get yourself into an MMA school.Quote:
Originally Posted by rookie28
So far i did shotokan, kyokushin, shorin ryu karate, WTF tae kwon do, Boxing, and MMA which i did for 3 months.
MMA class is just not the same, you dont have any forms to learn, no self defense, you just get down to what is effective, there is a lot of conditionning, and its great for losing weight too this is why MMA classes are really popular right now, and why so many people are taking the classes.
In theses 3 months my cardio was amazing, i lost weight, the gut the belly the lovehandles all melted and i did not diet at all, there was a lot of pad work, punching bag work, sparring in the ring (We did not have a cage).
It was the best thing i ever did sadly i had to move due to job issues and now i have very limited martial arts i can learn around here.
There is aiki-juijitsu but they never spar, they just practice technics and thats it you barely break off a sweat.
The good thing is that after each MMA class you feel like you accomplish something, you feel better, have more confidence and you will face humility at some point getting chocked and you will tap LOL.
It really sucks for me has well guess that if i ever get back into martial arts i will have to do it for the fun of it like i did when i used to practice tae kwon do, it was fun but ineffective in the streets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yannick35
Yan,
you didn't learn any defense in MMA? Defense is always half the battle bro...
I wouldn't put boxing in the same mix as martial arts effectiveness and training intensity... no dis to all the martial arts fanatics (i took TKD back in the days when it was the rave).. but boxing is all about conditioning, footwork, defense, sparring, hitting the bags, core training, running anywhere from 4-8 miles a day.... if you didn't do those things at your boxing club, you got ripped off. In fact most MMA traiing techniques derived from boxing and wrestling training techniques...
as you can see I am partial to boxing...:wg:
Good luck with your decision rookie28
Hey guys thanks for your opinions. I will continue focusing on my boxing and get serious in the kickboxing. Wrestling and bjj will be the next step but I don't think getting any serious with Muy Thai but we'll see. For sure, I won't attempt the kempo dojo which seems in the majority's opinion not equivalent at all to MMA. thank you
yeah right.. Lol...Quote:
Originally Posted by pridefedor
Wow I actually agree with PrideFedor. Solid post bro.
rockinred MMMM i could try kickboxing at the kenpo school, also road work is your decision not the club, i trained in boxing for around 6 months, i did some light sparring but never competed in boxing i was 28 at that time, i was doing it to get in shape and it worked fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinred
I never did an art because i wanted to beat someone up, even if i competed in TKD i never even liked it, pressure from the school.
In fact i hate competition i rather do something i love. MMA training was the same show up to the gym for your class, one class would be on stand up muay thai and boxing other classes would be on ground fighting.
This i only did for 3 months
Pridefedor kyokushin does have punches in the face at least it did when i used to practice it back in 1988 (God i am so OLD.....) black belt where allowed to punch to the face, also back in 1988 mouth peace and head gear where required in sparring.
Before that they where not. Unless kyokushin has changed they where allowed to head punch.
I saw some pertty sick knockouts when i went in competition from the black belts.
kyokushin is the hardest karate out there the conditioning is terrible and your body will get stronger for sure, when i made the jump from kyokushin to tae kwon do everything was so easy, then after a while since TKD i didnt train has hard has in kyokushin my conditioning went out of the window.
Yannick, You probably wore gloves too? U have to remember my brother i was growing up in Russia. We had 100% Japanese hardcore Kyokushinkay. In order to recieve a black belt you had to go to Japan and live in Masutatsu Oyama school and live there for a while. Some people stayed and came back in 5-7 years with black belts of 2nd degree. Sometimes the sensei used to take us to run outside. Everything would've been fine and Im all for fresh air , but not in -10C degrees and a foot of snow. About the punches in the face! Any black belt can punch a concrete wall with his bare knuckles and wont feel anything. Imagine if you allow them to punch each other in the face lol. Right now , everything is different even in Japan. Only few schools that stay loyal to the old rules and old type of training. Everything changed and got more business oriented. They even wearing gloves ( little pads) during cometition right now. Some wearing helmets with a fence on it to protect face and head. I've never could understand why kyokushinkay needs helmets or gloves? Its more like "KENDO" - with a bamboo sword vs. real katana. Its more like traditional sport rather than anything else right now. Imagine you open a real Kyokushin school and start training people by methods they have to be trained. First, you'll have so many injuries its unbelievable and second you'll have a bunch of law suits and will be forced to close down. Our sensei was walking around with a bamboo stick and God forbid if u didn't take anything seriously. We had a dude kicked in the ribs with yoko-giri , right under the heart and we thought he died. Right here, 99% of newcommers wouldn't be able to handle 20-30 minutes warm up in real school and Im not talking about when u have to work in pairs and ur body isn't adapted to stand 30 min to an hour in "kibadachi" and deliver "seiken-uchi" to the solar plexus. I want to see any school right now in the corporate United States who will allow to do anything like that !
another superman story...
every post of his ..geez
First, its none of your damn business. If you have nothing to say on the subject, shut your pieholes and go discuss your opionated sh*t via PM's. Noone cares what u two have to say if its not on the subject of a thread. It sounds superman for you cause u were pamered your whole live. U never lived a hard day in your life. All you did is leaving outta your mommy and daddy's pocket and were eating McDonald and TacoBell all your lives. You can't even imgaine how some people in the world live. I guarantee if you two were ever pushed hard enough , you would lose your human face in no time. Roid Rage would sold his ass and zimmy would wash someone socks for a half of a "pound cake". So if you really think that your adolescent opinion is so important you're wrong!
Hey stop laughing at Zimmy cause he is fat and always have arrogant comments on boards. He must have a hard life, and trouble managing is couple issues, cought in a armbar and a hard place.
Another fat idiot that just wasted is life and is getting back at people making arrogance comments on board.
Fatty fatty hatty.
Just put him in your ignore list so you wont have to read is caca anymore.
I'm not sure you understood my post...I know you're not an L1 English speaker, so I'll be straightforward and make my point crystal clear.
There is no single martial art that will make someone a well-rounded fighter, whether it is in the street or in the UFC Octagon. Folk Wisdom 101: "Don't put all your eggs into one basket." I just used GSP as an example of someone who's an incredible athlete, yet has to study/practice a variety of martial arts to be a world champion. Even though he's fighting according to UFC rules, I'd put money down on him in a real street fight versus any Shaolin Kempo Karate master/grand master/wizard or whatever they call themselves.
If you really want to be a bad ass fighter, go to a tactical pistol school. Even Fedor couldn't do much against a Sig P226 9mm in the hands of a properly-trained operator.:lol:
Oh, and thanks for the compliment! I AM a smart guy!! :hello:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrideFEDOR
Yannick , thank u brother ! U are a good bro! Your heart is in the right place my man.
CSAR, girls will be giving you compliments my man. I was saying how it is. If I saw you as a dummy , I'd prolly wouldn't say that , but im sure that I wouldn't say "ur smart". I did read your posts where u sounded very knowledgeble and on point for every single issue that was in that thread.
I agree with you on the fact that there's no a single MA that will make u a well-rounded fighter (although Combat Sambo is good , its just not perfected yet).But there are certain arts that benefit more in one or the other situation. Like wrestling is good sport and wrestlers are incredible athletes. I know some boys with bodies of bodybuilders close to competition. The only difference is that bbers can't move for sh*t and a wrestler does magic with his body. Plus they walk around like that year-round , not off and on depends on a season. But on the streets, if u fighting 1 dude , u dont know how many people u'll be fighting at the end. U be always aware of things. Cannot go to the ground at any point. Unless..........when I was 16 me and my friend were going back home from the swimpool and this big momo drunk as hell started pushing me. I pinpointed my first punch to the chin...Boom , nothing , dude is still walking. I did that again and still nothing. He was just never hit before probably because he could hold a punch good. He never hit me because he was too slow for me. But my friend who was " candidate in master of sport in classic wrestling" (greco-roman called classic in russia). He picked him up and threw him over his back almost like Randleman did to Fedor. And dude was out cold. When this boy and I were playing around he never was able to hit me, but if he could get a hold of my leg or my arm it was a wrap for me lol. He'd be throwing me yelling , slamming me down for every punch I threw at him. He still competes and he's got a silver and a bronze in Europe. There are certain fighting styles made to do damage. Special Forces (certain elite units are thought how to do stuff to people and use everything around as a weapon like a cigarette filter can be used as a blade and can easily open someone's throat). I was in the service and I still go to a shooting range every week and I own 4 firearms myself. U dont carry weapon all the time, but I do carry a knife all the time (folding knife). Just a habit.
We are on the same page "SMART GUY" lol - I can't believe u bragged about that too " yea - im smart" lmao......
Russian Kyokushin is well known to be tough has hell, has if kyokyshin wasnt tough enought the russans found a way to make it even tougher.
There are plenty of video on youtube showing the russian kyokushin fighting style.
Kyokushin got me in the best shape of my life i was 16 years old at the time, 5 feet 10 and a big 142 pounds skinny has hell but with all the cardio from the class, push ups, squats, heavy bag training and more i was rock hard. Quit sad that there are no kyokushin schools where i live right now.
I have a good 20 pounds to lose LOL.
I'm just going to say one thing, how come the best MA in the world is one that has been developed by some guy and even worst, ALONE!!! how in the heck could he proved it work??? hmmm I guess he must of been killing tigers and shit around...
and another thing, I'm not american either you super ****ing keyboard warrior lyer... I live in southamerica, so dont give me your tough ass russian Attitude "ohhh gI rew up in russia, I'm tough" just cant stop laughing at your ass, ohhh I'm 700 feet tall and 600 pounds, plus flexible as van damme, and lethal as a 45. LMFAO!!! I'm done with your stupids coments...
I Used to do kempo ryu karate kickboxing its an adaption of karate to make it stronger and an adaption of kickboxing to make it stronger and all rolled up into one.if this is anyting like that it will be awsome if hes a good teacher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nath78
Hi Nath78 did your style have forms in it? how about the sparring was it light contact? full?
I have a kenpo kickboxing school near my house, the classes are seperate, either you do kenpo Nick Ciero style or you do kickboxing, the kickboxing classes are real kickboxing nothing like tae bo or fitness kickboxing, there is a ring and a lot of equipment.
Its just a shame that the teacher doesnt get someone to teach MMA in there.