Not So Smart After All....

**Brown Ninja** · 12-28-2008, 02:54 AM

I don't even know where to begin. First off tonights fights were excellent, great job by the UFC for putting such a stacked card together. But after years and years of watching this sport I made the mistake of thinking I knew something about it. I was 0 for 3 in the fights that counted. I never would have guessed that Mir would finish Nog on the feet with unorthodox striking or that Wand would catch a mean left hook that put the lights out or that Rashad would GNP Forest.

All this raises the question of whether MMA is as far as long as we think or if its just a game of lucky punches. I have friends that are huge boxing enthusiasts that always tell me MMA is a far cry from boxing and is ruled by fluke knockouts and after tonight I sort of see where they are coming from. Short of Fedor and Anderson Silva there are very few fighters that dominate the sport. Can it be that skill is out weighed by aggression? That technique is second to luck? I understand that Rashad, Mir, and Page are top tier fighters but that being said it would be very hard to convince me that any of those three are better than the fighters that they beat. Am I way off? Let me know your guys thoughts on what we just witnessed. Someone please make sense of this.

**godkilla** · 12-28-2008, 03:29 AM

lol! ok wandy plays a dangerous game and he got caught and i think that is as simple as that. quinton with the heavy hands again! and thats coming from a big wandy fan. nog looked like shit, not making any excuses but that guy has been through some wars! mir looked great and his bad leg didnt even cross my mind in this fight. safe to say he looks 100% and was possible written off and/or underrated. as for rashad/griffen that was the only fight i picked right out of the three. i was impressed with his gnp from the guard and also kongos gnp form the guard. wicked card!

**amcon** · 12-28-2008, 03:31 AM

ur dead on... the sport will gain and loose casual fans looking to cheer for the one guy they love... then he is knocked out by a lucky punch or a little mistake (ex: u faber) and the sport suffers from big companies pooring money on to a anthlete that will or will not hold the title for the next fight... fedor's and a silva's will have to step up to legit the mma weight classes - it will take some time their seem to be a lot of good fighters out there

BG · 12-28-2008, 09:25 AM

I think it has alot to do with these guys just coming out, standing there and striking. Of course your going to get these upsets.

But on the other hand the sport has evolved, the coaching aspect has just gotten so much better, hands down Greg Jackson is the best strategist, he breaks down a fighter and comes up with the winning game plan. Not taken anything from Rashad though, great head movement, quick/heavy hands and a rock for a head. He took a right hook to the head, sounded like a brick hit him and it didn't faze him. Plus he came out to the song of songs, well done.

Rampage, not sure why he seemed afraid to stand right in there with Forrest when he lost. Chuck and Wandy he didn't budge and look at how those fights turned out. Looking forward to him and Evans, I think that's going to be a great fight.

Forrest, he needs to get some more punching power, he's kinda like Sherk, landing tons of shots, nice combos, but just doesn't have enough behind them.

Mir, good for him, way talk the talk, then walk the walk. Admitted his faults, corrected them and over came. Man I would love to meet his wife, she called him a *****, too funny, lucky to have someone pushing you like that. She even called him during the show and asked him why he was being such an asshole, priceless woman. I felt horrible for Nog, see a grown man cry like that, I just think Nog doesn't train hard enough anymore, lost his aggressiveness, which he didn't have much to start with. Cant sit back anymore and hope to catch an arm.

CB's such a fag.

BG · 12-28-2008, 09:28 AM

BTW BrownNinja, no worries MANY people thought just like you, I did also. I got a text from my friend everytime I was wrong. It was kinda funny, after every fight my phone would go off.

***RAGE*** · 12-28-2008, 09:31 AM

I talked a lot of sh** on this forum and with all my friends and Brown Ninja you said it best. I was also 0 for 3 last night WOW. There is no way to tell what is going to happen during a fights. I cant even type anymore.

**higherdesire** · 12-28-2008, 09:33 AM

Who are we kidding here? Luck has always trumped skill in any sport. If you can find me anyone that would say though I may be skilled at my craft I do not wish to have luck on my side I will kiss you bare ass on National TV. I understand your point but luck goes both ways ninja. When a fighter ducks a punch that he didn;t even see coming, that is luck, as much as throwing a punch that lands from on underdog like Serra. The keys are that that isn;t what we prepare for or train for. we train with all of hearts in the skill sets we need to develope the most, and when we are in the ring we use them to postition ourselves to capitilze on the opportuinites that are either available or created. NONE of the fighters tonight were lucky. Watch closer at the way Page engages, covers accordingly, and executes a well planned strike. NO luck there. Maybe you didn't see it coming or think it was possible but these men did or they wouldn;t have been there. Listen guys, Luck is when opportunity meets preperation, period.

And I am sorry to be rude but amcon WTF are you talking about? Sponsors do not pick the fights or train the fighters so how is the sport suffering from that? If anything it benefits tremendously from sponsors. Please expound so that I may be better educated on your point. THanks.

**WDMF** · 12-28-2008, 09:46 AM

I really don't see that much luck in MMA. There are so many areas to train coming into a fight that a fighter cannot cover them all. It all comes down to a gameplan and what happens to that gameplan if a fighter gets into trouble.

I think all the better fighters won last night.

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-28-2008, 11:07 AM

i was 0 for 3 in my want to wins.....disappointing ...but the future fight opportunities are exciting ..rampage/rhashad ....wow who will drop the bomb in that one? Id hate to make odds....evans is so quick ...i dunno ....

**oc pitbull** · 12-28-2008, 12:40 PM

i was also 0-3 even though I wanted mirr to win. (I was so ****en happy for him) I dont think it is as much about flukes as you put. I just think silva has had his bell rung to many times. and he is so aggresive he is bound to get caught. i think its time for him to consider retiring. he just has not gotten any better in a llong time. While other fighters are stepping up their game and becoming more tech.

**J-Dogg** · 12-28-2008, 01:07 PM

On the standup, luck is HUGE. One lucky punch, or one wrong move and that's the end.

In a BJJ match, the better fighter wins 9 of 10.

In a standup game, with light gloves, in MMA i'd say the better fighter wins 5-6 of 10.

**Brown Ninja** · 12-28-2008, 01:51 PM

^^^Completely agree but what the hell happened to the take down? Its essentially non-exsistent these days. Really talented fighters appear far to willing to sit their and trade and the funny thing to me is that these guys are not gifted stand-up fighters. Most of them forget to cover up and throw flat out slop, and that is why we are seeing so many quick/fluke wins.

**Brown Ninja** · 12-28-2008, 02:08 PM

Unfortunately I agree with some of the points being made above that Wand and Nog have taken to much punishment over the years. It was very sad to see them both lose in that fashion

**WARMachine** · 12-28-2008, 10:38 PM

i wasnt shocked with Rashad's win, or Pages. I never thought in a million years that Frank would be the first guy to ever stop Nog though...

I was shocked...

**higherdesire** · 12-28-2008, 10:45 PM

I chose Mir to win but I figured it would be a decision or submission, never saw the KO coming from Mir. I think it has as much to do with Nog as it did with Mir though. unfortunate to see him go out like that. I had Rashad, but never saw rampage coming out on top in any circumstances althoug in retrospect I am not sure why I didn;t give him any more consideration.

**Panzerfaust** · 12-28-2008, 11:14 PM

Bottom line is, two men enter and one must lose!

I stopped getting emotional about the fights probably 2yrs ago as I have come to realise a fight is a fight and anything can happen with 4oz gloves on. One shot and its all over.

Have the boxers start wearing 4oz gloves and the amount of KO's would skyrocket.

The "better" fighter does not always win, its about who peaked and had a little luck on their side that night.

**MuscleScience** · 12-28-2008, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Brown Ninja

Unfortunately I agree with some of the points being made above that Wand and Nog have taken to much punishment over the years. It was very sad to see them both lose in that fashion

Both Nog and Wandy faces and head just looked terrible before the fight. Them guys have been in a few to many battles at this point.

**T_Own** · 12-28-2008, 11:50 PM

i don't see how everyone is so upset rampage won.. its not like he's a bad fighter. before wanderlei caught him with knees in the first two fights, i would have said rampage was even at least. i think the way wanderlei won the first two fights were terrible, i completely disagree with the pride rules that one guy can get a knock down and in stead of putting himself in danger by jumping on top to finish, he can attack the other guy in a manner that no one can stop.

4oz gloves do allow for more knockouts, but also to use the hands still. they would still be bare knuckle but they got banned that way

**Brown Ninja** · 12-29-2008, 12:45 AM

Page is legit for sure and I honestly foresee him beating Evans. But there was a lot of history with Wand and when u throw in the legal mess most of us, at least me, thought he wouldnT be there mentally. He fought a great fight though

**Brown Ninja** · 12-29-2008, 12:45 AM

oh yeah, did anyone notice the look on Chucks face?

**godkilla** · 12-30-2008, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by Brown Ninja

oh yeah, did anyone notice the look on Chucks face?

**amcon** · 12-30-2008, 03:28 AM

lol now thats funny

**southmadejd** · 12-30-2008, 09:51 AM

Did I miss something about the nyquil jokes guys....I just don't get it?? Is it cause he gets knocked out so much that he gets put to sleep or something??

Please explain.

Also about his expression after Page knocked out Wandy, does anybody know why he looked so upset?

**BgMc31** · 12-30-2008, 11:31 AM

I'm a huge boxing fan too. And just a casual fan of MMA. So take this for what it's worth. But, IMO, in Boxing, you only have to be good at boxing, no other variables, so the most skilled athlete normally wins. Freak knockouts aren't nearly as prevelent because of the singularity of the skill. 4oz gloves plays a roll as well, but I don't believe there would be a huge difference in KO's if 4oz gloves were used, just more hand injuries and longer, more boring fights (fighters not willing to throw as many punches). That has already been proven in the early days of prize fighting. The reason larger gloves were introduced wasn't to protect fighters heads, but to pick up the pace of fights.

In MMA, from what I've seen, there isn't a fighter who is GREAT at EVERYTHING (except maybe Fedor, but I have yet to see Fedor exihibit tremendous boxing ability), so because of the many aspects the MMA entails, the likelihood of being caught by something is much greater than in Boxing.

just my .02

**rush_604** · 12-30-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by southmadejd

Did I miss something about the nyquil jokes guys....I just don't get it?? Is it cause he gets knocked out so much that he gets put to sleep or something??

Please explain.

Also about his expression after Page knocked out Wandy, does anybody know why he looked so upset?

The nyquill thing : Chuck was doing promos for the movie 300 and was on a morning show and seemed completely out of it. Didn't make any sense at all. Than after they said he had taken some sleeping pills the day before.

Heres the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xwYOFIWlg8

I've heard that if Wandy won then a Chuck rematch could have been set up and it would have been a good pay day. I think that fight could still happen seeing as how they both lost there last fight.