Pride Vs. UFC

[J-Dogg]

MMA is new in the US,new in the states. The UFC is very young.

Pride and K1 are close to the biggest sports in Japan.

I'm confused a little about how the pride guys do in the UFC. CroCrop, Wandy and Shogun all were SO dominate in pride. How can they do so poorly in the UFC?

Those 3 guys were training and fighting for a living, for most of thier lives. How is Forrest who was a police officer until 5 years ago beat them?

Is it that easy to be good at MMA? Can you train for a few years and beat guys that have been doing it forever? Shogun and Wandy were bread for fighting in Brazil. CroCrop looks awful now?

What would happen if the HW poster boy from pride went to the UFC? Would Fedor be upset also?

Shogun is young, and remarably talented. If he does not do well in the UFC, I'm just going to assume Dana is paying suckers to fall.

It just does kind of seem like Dana's guys are always winning. Chuck for so many years, then he's just getting owned left and right. In a way, rampage too. I'm the guys biggest fan, but he was one of the first pride vets to come to the UFC and be promoted.

Anderson is doing top notch, but in pride, he was insignificant compared to the big 3 that have racked up 2-3 wins combined in the past 2 years.

I'm not a Pride freak or anything, I like the UFC, I just am surprized and confused on how guys that have fought for a living for so long, are getting beat by amatures on a regular basis.

Yes, Rashad was a wrestler in college. But how many years has been been professinally fighting? Since TUF 3? TUF fighters are pulled off the street and are the best fighters in the world in 3-4 years, better than guys that come from contries where MMA is the prevailant sport and has been for centuries and it has been there dream to fight pro, and have been doing since they were very young.

[Brown Ninja]

What it comes down to is that the new guys coming into this sport are from the GSP mold. They are legitimate athletes who pick things up like sponges. In the past the fighters were no wear near as well rounded. Most of them could focus on being really good in one aspect and that would negate any weakness that they have. Those days are over. Look at Wandy and Chuck. Don't give up on SHogun yet. The only round of the Forest fight that he was "healthy" in he absolutely dominated. After he blew out his knee he was in trouble. I still think that he will be a factor

[J-Dogg]

Wandy is well rounded, and so is CroCrop too.

Wandy is BJJ black belt, like shogun. CroCrop has fought top notch wrestlers, so has Wandy.

The art of MMA has been developed over decades of fights and training in Japan and Brazil.

In the past 5 years it has taken off in the US. It's been here, but nothing serious. You could not make a living off it. Fighters in Brazil and Japan have made livings off it for many many years.

I just don't understand how TUFers are coming off the street and beating pros.

I would be like me or you going to AU and out wrangling a croc and making the croc hunter look like a newb.

[rush_604]

Wandy is well rounded, and so is CroCrop too.

Wandy is BJJ black belt, like shogun. CroCrop has fought top notch wrestlers, so has Wandy.

The art of MMA has been developed over decades of fights and training in Japan and Brazil.

In the past 5 years it has taken off in the US. It's been here, but nothing serious. You could not make a living off it. Fighters in Brazil and Japan have made livings off it for many many years.

I just don't understand how TUFers are coming off the street and beating pros.

I would be like me or you going to AU and out wrangling a croc and making the croc hunter look like a newb.

I think being well rounded would be Wandy actually taking people down and submitting them. Ya Mirko has good take down defense but when has he ever gone to the ground (besides Randleman sub)

Being well rounded is using all aspects of mma. Guys like GSP like in the fitch fight, he stood with him beat him on the feet, took him down. That IMO is well rounded. Just because you have a BJJ black belt doesnt make you well rounded, you have to use that black belt as well. Guys like Rashad and GSP are well rounded because they try to use everything possible.

[J-Dogg]

I think being well rounded would be Wandy actually taking people down and submitting them. Ya Mirko has good take down defense but when has he ever gone to the ground (besides Randleman sub)

Being well rounded is using all aspects of mma. Guys like GSP like in the fitch fight, he stood with him beat him on the feet, took him down. That IMO is well rounded. Just because you have a BJJ black belt doesnt make you well rounded, you have to use that black belt as well. Guys like Rashad and GSP are well rounded because they try to use everything possible.

We'll have to see how Shogun fairs.

I always thought his striking was better than Wandys and to be honest,I think his ground game is better than his stand up.

[rush_604]

Ya hopefully Shogun shows up to fight against Coleman, and beats his ass.

[J-Dogg]

Colemans style actually suits the cage and the type that are currently winning fights.

[WARMachine]

i think the old arguement of UFC vs PRIDE fighters has been finished.

I dont know for a fact, but i have questions about the use of AAS in Chute Boxe. That would explain the size of Shogun and Wandy of now vs. then. Many others as well...

[T_Own]

i would just say its because they are getting old. they were all in pride for the best part of their careers and now that the UFC comes in and offers them some more money, its past their prime.

war, keeping the avy haha

[Brown Ninja]

Maybe War can help me out here but I have heard numerous accou ts about Wandys black belt being less than legit. Either way that man is my hero but I was told he was hooked up more for being an icon than merit. That being said I don't see him or Crocop as being well rounded. They were both such devastating strikers that they didn't have to work on other areas of their game.

[Brown Ninja]

Someone above mentioned Shoguns striking being better than Wands, I don't agree. I thinks it's just as wild and agressive but not as devastating. That being said he has a great ground game to go with it. This Coleman fight should show us what is to come

[yannick35]

That is a great post, and i have wondered many times myself what happened to theses fighters.

Wandy seemed to fight better while on steroids , now in the UFC all fighters are tested so he cannot use them anymore, he looks afraid to slug it out? like he used to before, and is big KO at Pride OPGP in 2006 finals might have broken is spirit a bit too.

Crocop just doesnt do well against BJJ guys and sambo guys, look at is fight against Fedor, he was taken down and then gased out, same thing happened with Gonzaga, taken down, GNP, some nice elbows, he came into round 2 exausted and got KOed.
At some point Crocop looked like he just wanted to finish is 3 fight deal with UFC and get out of there, quit sad because he has been hyped so bad by UFC and turned out to be a deception.

Shogun was injured against Griffin, think it was is knee, but still not taking anything away from Griffin he put on one great fight.

[yannick35]

i think the old arguement of UFC vs PRIDE fighters has been finished.

I dont know for a fact, but i have questions about the use of AAS in Chute Boxe. That would explain the size of Shogun and Wandy of now vs. then. Many others as well...

Yupe that is so true

[J-Dogg]

Someone above mentioned Shoguns striking being better than Wands, I don't agree. I thinks it's just as wild and agressive but not as devastating. That being said he has a great ground game to go with it. This Coleman fight should show us what is to come

Take into account Shoguns use of ebows standing. I think his knees are better. His kicks are better, he'll throw you a spining round house. He'll also get you with a ebow on the ground, Dive through your legs with a punch where Wandy looks for a head stomp.

As a whole package, Wandy throws harder punches. Shogun has more tools though and is IMO a far superior striker.

The more you think about it, the more you realize how much better Shogun actually is.

[Brown Ninja]

At this point in their career I would definately give the edge to shogun and I thinks its been that way for the last two years. I just think that Shoguns style can be sloppy and when he fights someone that hits as hard as a Rashad Evans he might find himself in trouble taking all those chances that he takes that make him so much fun to watch.

[Brown Ninja]

I hear you on the steroids and the effect they may have had but can anyone say that Wand has ever looked better than he did at the weigh ins on Friday? He looked enormous and lean. I would not mind seeing him drop to 185.

[godkilla]

i think its got alot to do with the fighters style and fight history. obvious a brawler who has taken alot of punishment and/or sustained some serious ko's isnt gonna be looking so good down the road.

[roid_rage]

wandy lost to chuck (no shame, plus it was a war) and to Page, no shame either, Shogun was injured, and CC, well, he lost to GG (no tufer), and Kongo (no tufer either)... plus CC is done.

I also have a couple of thoughts about how weird shogun looked vs forrest, just as how un willing to fight was Nog vs Mir... those guys werent the guys we all were used to see in PRIDE. I just cannot see Nog taking orders from no one saying, take a dive, or you have to lose this fight. May be Nog, as well as Wandy had too many wars to keep on fighting at top level..

[Brown Ninja]

No one should be accusing anyone of taking a dive because I just don't see it. I think your last point is correct though....a lot of wars that have taken their toll.

And just for the record its now cool to be a "tufer" thanks to Rashad and Forest