Help, lifting and MMA

[crazed98]

Ok, I do MMA. From the other dojos in my area, my place expects ALOT more out of us. The cardio is rediculious, and the pressure is crazy. Now, I used to be into the weight lifting scene. But I cant seem to find the right sequence for the two. If I lift too hard and too heavy, my speed and endurance runs out quick. If I do no weights, or super light, Im PERFECT. BUT, when I do that, I shrink, back to a thin toothpick. What is the correct dosage of lifting for a nice body, but also be able to rock people around? Medium wieght, medium reps?

Chest mondays
Back tuesdays
Arms weds
Legs thurs
shoulders fridays
--I do MMA class mon, tues, weds, fri, and sat.
Im 5'7, weigh in at 163ish (varies) and prob around 8% bodyfat. A

** 1 more thing. I wanted to throw in some test prop to help me gain lean size. Is that good for sports? Maybe add some tren ace? I know tren kills your lungs/endurance, right? Whats something good to add to test prop for lean size, and speed?

[ACJiujitsu]

That seems like a bodybuilding workout.Why dont you try to do full body/funtional workouts.Maybe do Upper/Lower/Upper 3 days a week.Also try and put some bodyweight workouts and some strength/compound lifts.Big Beach muscles dont win fights,technique and all around strength do.I personally wouldnt do a cycle,because while they may not test you in ammy's,if you plan on turning pro then your gonna get tested.Just my opinion,maybe someone else can give you other advice

[zimmy]

why waste you money on test? If your mma class trains you like you should be training (hella cardio) along with your lifting, your not gonna gain much muscle. And I am not even sure you should be looking into anabolics at your weight anyway. Test / prop for speed? Dun't think so.

[smfo00]

There are tons of fighters in Pride past and present that have used to help them get to where they needed to be........ Just look into it and I'm sure you will be surprised.

[KAEW44]

There are tons of fighters in Pride past and present that have used to help them get to where they needed to be........ Just look into it and I'm sure you will be surprised.

Look up all the fighters that have tested posative for anabolic steroids in the past three years you will see ALL of them LOST their fights. AAS does not help you in MMA at all , it only makes you look buff while you get beat up.
Lets mention a few:

Kevin Randleman
Hermes Franca
Chris Leben
Stephan Bonnar
Phil Baroni

Back in the Pride days Japan did not consider AAS as banned substance or performance enhancing in the fight game, thats why they didnt test fighters, maybe there was wisdom in it because the best fighters in pride at the time
(Noguiera/Fedor/Alex/Sergei for example) all had physiques that were very far from being juiced but they were phenominal fighters.

Wheras fighters who looked it like Coleman/Randleman were merely cans for anybody to beat on. They are not even top 20 in their divisions.

My point: AAS will not make you a better fighter and if you turn pro and get tested the consequence is not worth it, better off working on your skills bro.

[HIITB$]

I think IMO for what you're talking low dose Test to help spare muscle during those grueling cardio sessions leave the freakn Tren alone it will do nothing but hurt your cardio and make it discouraging to keep training, again IMO

TestProp is ideal because 3 week detection time so if you were to take a fight or tournament where you know you're getting tested you can let it clear.

also GH cant be tested for

I agree with the guys that said full body splits 2-3Xs a week. You simply cant do a BB routine and why would you want to try? Things like Benching, Squatting, Deadlifts etc...should be staple of strength lifts for you not alternating Bicep curls

If you want i can shoot some things at you, PM me. The longer you train/fight the better you'll get at balancing lifting and training. When comes match/fight time most cut out weights all together for at least a month to repair and not take chance of inujury also. Injury prevention is hardest thing to balanace when trying to strength train and do any combat sport at same time.

[HIITB$]

also functional strength and technique trumps brute strength everytime....

[millionairemurph]

Look up all the fighters that have tested posative for anabolic steroids in the past three years you will see ALL of them LOST their fights. AAS does not help you in MMA at all , it only makes you look buff while you get beat up.
Lets mention a few:

Kevin Randleman
Hermes Franca
Chris Leben
Stephan Bonnar
Phil Baroni

Back in the Pride days Japan did not consider AAS as banned substance or performance enhancing in the fight game, thats why they didnt test fighters, maybe there was wisdom in it because the best fighters in pride at the time
(Noguiera/Fedor/Alex/Sergei for example) all had physiques that were very far from being juiced but they were phenominal fighters.

Wheras fighters who looked it like Coleman/Randleman were merely cans for anybody to beat on. They are not even top 20 in their divisions.

My point: AAS will not make you a better fighter and if you turn pro and get tested the consequence is not worth it, better off working on your skills bro.

to say that guys like Nog, Fedor and other were and or are not on juice because they arent cut is rediculous. Lots of guys dont eat or train properly.

Tim sylvia failed for winny, look at his body
fedors training partner failed for winny, look at him. He looked fat and soft
there are plenty of others.

Look at the section on this website where people post their cycle results. Lots of these guys are fat slobs, (no offence intended) and they in some cases are super juiced.

I am not trying to flame you here bro, I just hate the steriotype that if a guy is soft loking he is clean, and if a guy is ******, strong or fast he is juiced. Steriotyping people in this way puts aas in a bad light, puts guys who work hard in a bad light.

I do agree with you that juice wont help you fight better. I think that in many cases the guys whom i see who juice focs more on strength than technique. They miss sparring to lift. They want to have beach muscles instead of wanting to be a better fighter.

[thabeastmaster]

this sincerely is a good question/thread.....

i always wondered about Equi and its effects on athletic performance with regards to the wind endurance factor....i was under the impression that it would increase your red blood cells, possibly having a positive effect on oxygen transport....but ive never really pushed the question, hence why i have no answer...

i will say this though...from EXPERIENCE....when i was training BJJ HEAVILY... i mean 25+ hours a week TRAINING HARD.....and i added gear to my routine along with lifting, my technique went to SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTT........I found myself muscling moves and techniques and becoming very easy to read/predict/and defend against....one of my favorite training partners, who was always bigger and stronger than me(i was always the skinniest smallest guy at my BJJ school) commented on the change in my performance......first, he did say i was WAAAY stronger...but that was followed up by him letting me know i was no longer the sneaky, always planning 3-4 moves ahead, non stop attacking from different angles, technically sound grappler i used to be...instead he said it was like i just picked 1 submission and did whatever it took to get it....which is NOT the way i EVER wanted to be....

if you wanna be a fighter....then everything you do should revolve around fighting.....if you wanna be M & F cover model, then thats how you develop your workout program.....

fighting is too serious to give anything less than 100% to....

good luck with whatever you do and be sure to follow up with WARmachine and get referred to a good BJJ school...

[Philly Grappler]

Holy crap dude. 25 hours a week? Do you work there or own the school? I have trouble making 5 hours a week, although I have a full time job, 2 kids, etc etc.

[HIITB$]

Holy crap dude. 25 hours a week? Do you work there or own the school? I have trouble making 5 hours a week, although I have a full time job, 2 kids, etc etc.

Getting ready for a fight its easy to put in about as much gym time as work time (40 hours) at least in my experiences

[Tecate4E]

well practice makes perfect and weight lifting shouldn't effect your speed.. strech and strech explosive workouts are the best cleans deadlifts act

[HIITB$]

well practice makes perfect and weight lifting shouldn't effect your speed.. strech and strech explosive workouts are the best cleans deadlifts act

word

[CJBills]

why waste you money on test? If your mma class trains you like you should be training (hella cardio) along with your lifting, your not gonna gain much muscle. And I am not even sure you should be looking into anabolics at your weight anyway. Test / prop for speed? Dun't think so.

I can attest to this... Although the cycle was great for keeping the muscle mass on and repair and all of that, I know the intensity of training Muay Thai diminished my gains.

Also, my cardio went into the shitter - to the point where it was adding like 2min per km run and drastically reducing my number of good rounds in the ring.

I know there are many fighters that reap huge gains from cycling, but I had a hard time trying to do everything at the same time.

[HIITB$]

I can attest to this... Although the cycle was great for keeping the muscle mass on and repair and all of that, I know the intensity of training Muay Thai diminished my gains.

Also, my cardio went into the shitter - to the point where it was adding like 2min per km run and drastically reducing my number of good rounds in the ring.

I know there are many fighters that reap huge gains from cycling, but I had a hard time trying to do everything at the same time.

Yeah i totally agree its hard to do all of that at the same time. For me this is how it breaks down with gaining weight and doing sports. This is just my .02 and years of seeing what works for me..

YOu can not train like you're getting ready for a fight all year long. Maybe about 10 weeks you can go at that intensity before you body has had enough and starts to break down thus why you ramp up over the course of 10 weeks and peak when getting ready for a fight. Its not so much the intensity that gets to you but the frequency of you performing thast intensity in preparation for your fight. So anyways you have "off" time where you scale it back a bit and let your "lick your wounds" so to speak! For me thats adding muscle, getting strength back that i lost during a weight cut etc...This the ideal time to gain weight and hit the weights hard. NORMALLY i build back up and maybe even get a little bigger than i was before the contest/fight prep started basically same as bulking up and then going through a cut for bb's not exact but close in theory i think. So say i fight at 170 and before the fight prep im walking around at 200lbs. Through the courwse of it and prolly two weeks out i'll be walking around 185-190 and im talking lean so a lot of the weight lost was muscle and maybe some but ideally you'd stay fairly lean most of the time. So when you get done with your fight you start hitting the weights and hope to get up to either 205 (5lbs heavier) or a leaner thicker 200lbs before your next contest prep begins. With AAS you can run it a low dose and keep most of your gains throughout contest prep and training so that after your contest you're not starting back to square one you can make more progress.

Does any of this make sense? Hopefully i didnt get carreid away and it turned into just rambling lol

[HIITB$]

Also...at a low dose of just test your cardio shouldnt dip at all really and you need to put out of your mind that your on test so that it doesnt mess up how you train otherwise you'll try to muscle instead of technique but that's all mental and if you cant deal wit that....no offense but that's pretty low on the totem pole of mental challenges you'll deal with as a mma competitor.

[bjpennnn]

if you eat you will have no problem man. at my gym they have sessions going on ever hour like bjj, wrestling, muay thai then bjj wrestling mma and sometimes i have stayed all day there doing like 4 or 5 in a row taking a break then rolling again I was able to do it and stay muslcar while pounding food all day long. i couldnt break the same weight as you 163 ish. and i am 5-6 7ish. you just have to eat eat eat proten protein protein

[CJBills]

Also...at a low dose of just test your cardio shouldnt dip at all really and you need to put out of your mind that your on test so that it doesnt mess up how you train otherwise you'll try to muscle instead of technique but that's all mental and if you cant deal wit that....no offense but that's pretty low on the totem pole of mental challenges you'll deal with as a mma competitor.

Yeah, totally agree with you there. I actually think the Var is actually what threw me off though.

Anyone have experience just running prop?

[HIITB$]

Yeah, totally agree with you there. I actually think the Var is actually what threw me off though.

Anyone have experience just running prop?

Prop IMO works the best buuuuutt.....the thing with that is your either pinning ED or EOD and no matter how used to it you get you will sometimes get sore (ie; quads, shoulders) etc...which can really hinder you're training.

[HIITB$]

if you eat you will have no problem man. at my gym they have sessions going on ever hour like bjj, wrestling, muay thai then bjj wrestling mma and sometimes i have stayed all day there doing like 4 or 5 in a row taking a break then rolling again I was able to do it and stay muslcar while pounding food all day long. i couldnt break the same weight as you 163 ish. and i am 5-6 7ish. you just have to eat eat eat proten protein protein

It isn't quite so easy IMO because of the cardio that's involved. I'm talking in terms of a fighter though where you're spending around 6hours in the gym everyday being 1-2hours in the morning and 4-5hours every night.
Eating is def a big and crucial part but there's a lil more too it then just eating.

[yannick35]

Full body workout would make sense twice a week, has for steroids well i would not take them either, i mean MMA is to be in shape.

I used testosteron at one point when i was boxing back in 1998-1999, along with winstrol v and i was always sweating and out of breath, i just did not like the feeling at all and dont recommand them either.

Fighters like Wandeley Silva and couple of others made there career out of steroids, today many of them dont use anymore because UFC test , Pride did not and they are worthless fighters now, Silva is the worst of them all.

I really like TUF show because it really shows you how these guys train.

Many of them do full body workouts, squats, deadlifts, bench press, standing press.

[HIITB$]

Full body workout would make sense twice a week, has for steroids well i would not take them either, i mean MMA is to be in shape.

I used testosteron at one point when i was boxing back in 1998-1999, along with winstrol v and i was always sweating and out of breath, i just did not like the feeling at all and dont recommand them either.

Fighters like Wandeley Silva and couple of others made there career out of steroids, today many of them dont use anymore because UFC test , Pride did not and they are worthless fighters now, Silva is the worst of them all.

I really like TUF show because it really shows you how these guys train.

Many of them do full body workouts, squats, deadlifts, bench press, standing press.

Yeah Wanderlie is garbage now right? Same fighter, same strength...just all the other fighters have surpassed in technical skills and he's getting exposed now. All the guys from the earlier UFCs were juicing and you better believe 90% of them still are...dont say things you dont have a clue about!!!

Winny has taking many gold medals away from people in the Olympics....you think it doesnt help at all huh? You think its a supplement for hard work? wtf?

basically i dont agree with anything you said.....ehhh but to each their own

[thabeastmaster]

Holy crap dude. 25 hours a week? Do you work there or own the school? I have trouble making 5 hours a week, although I have a full time job, 2 kids, etc etc.

lol....college loans....lol...had gone back to school and it was 15 credits and BJJ...lol...half the time i was skipping class at school to go train...it was a wonderful outlet for my OCD....lol

[bjpennnn]

no eating will work man lol. you have to eat eat eat how do you think the fighters do it come on bro think about it. there really isnt much more to it then that. you cant tell me you train more then pro fighters and if you are pro then you should have your diet on lock. y9ou have to decide wether you want to be a fighter or a body builder becuase they both take different attributes.

[HIITB$]

no eating will work man lol. you have to eat eat eat how do you think the fighters do it come on bro think about it. there really isnt much more to it then that. you cant tell me you train more then pro fighters and if you are pro then you should have your diet on lock. y9ou have to decide wether you want to be a fighter or a body builder becuase they both take different attributes.

you're free to think as you would

[Greatztin]

i train mma 4x week and jujitsu 1-2 times a week and i do stronglifts type workouts 3x week, dont do a bodybuilding workout, u wont survive and its useless,

[meathead320]

When we are talking AAS and MMA, are we talking using "bodybuilding" doses and drugs with negative results, OR are we talking just using something basic to keep muscle during the grueling cardio, and maybe even add "some" strength.

I mean eating the same, same amount of cardio (maybe even more) and hitting the weights hard, while on just 300-400mg of test Cyp/Enth EW.

That dose is high enough to easily maintain and gain some size, but I would think not too much that it bodybuildizes your training. Also the fact that it is just test, nothing more or less.

I would think that having a somewhat higher level of testosterone , and mean testosterone, not the other altered AAS, would be of great help to anyone in a fight. Too much of anything too high, and costing someone too much speed or whatever would hurt them sure.

My point is that maybe it is not that AAS is of no use to an MMA fighter, maybe some of the guys just got the dose wrong OR/AND they may be expecting to be able to rely on the AAS and strength too much.

Strength is great and all, but alone it is not the best weapon. As just one of many tools it can compliment whatever else is in there. Just cannot rely on it alone.

[KAEW44]

Look at the section on this website where people post their cycle results. Lots of these guys are fat slobs, (no offence intended) and they in some cases are super juiced.

.

Man LOL i swear i have been wanting to make a comment on that for years but i always thought it was mean and discouraging to the memebers.LOL i just wont visit that forum section anymore LOL

[ACJiujitsu]

Full body workout would make sense twice a week, has for steroids well i would not take them either, i mean MMA is to be in shape.

I used testosteron at one point when i was boxing back in 1998-1999, along with winstrol v and i was always sweating and out of breath, i just did not like the feeling at all and dont recommand them either.

Fighters like Wandeley Silva and couple of others made there career out of steroids, today many of them dont use anymore because UFC test , Pride did not and they are worthless fighters now, Silva is the worst of them all.

I really like TUF show because it really shows you how these guys train.

Many of them do full body workouts, squats, deadlifts, bench press, standing press.

Wow,no offense,but you're totally offbase.LOL at Wand being worthless.Or any of the guys who fought in Pride.

[terraj]

Fight at your natural weight, you get better technique by doing so and with technique comes power.

Training....Pull ups, hand stand press, cleans...core and more core....if you want to fight to your best of your potential forget about BB and AAS.

[millionairemurph]

Wow,no offense,but you're totally offbase.LOL at Wand being worthless.Or any of the guys who fought in Pride.

seriously. Nogiera, Fedor, cro cop, wanderlei, there are a bunch of guys who are still viable

[millionairemurph]

i know if i am on a "heavier " cycle, my cardio drops off bigtime, and i wont even mention tren ....

a "lighter" cycle of something like
150 prop weekly
700 masteron or EQ weekly
also maybe some winstrol


really seems to work well in the months prior to a fight when i am doing insane amounts of cardio and lots of live sparring. It keeps my muscle on when i dont lift as much and do more cardio, also helps the body heal from all the abuse. There is a reason they call them PEDs, its because they enhance performance.