UFC UF 16 finals finally Rogan explains the weight cut and its drawbacks

[yannick35]

I had a bit of experience in the weight cutting stuff when i was competing in tae kwon do a very long long time ago, i used to compete at 183 pounds and at some point had bulked up to 210, the weight cut was hell and i lost all my fights, i did it in about 1 month time.

After that i never cut weight again and manage to stay at 185 pounds of the rest of my competetive years in TKD.

I recently learned that Patrick Cote will now compete at 170 pounds, i have met Patrick a few times when he fought in TKO here in Montreal he is 6 feet tall and walks around at 215-220, he is a big guy.

He started competing in MMA at 205 then after being unsuccessful he decied to drop to 185, and now after being unsuccessful he decides to cut to 170. This is just insane.

Same has Jake Shield who wanted to fight GSP so bad and got sick cutting to 170, at 185 he is at is best but at 170 when he fought GSP he looked terrible while GSP looked like a monster next to him.

I am not sure why the UFC authorise theses insane weight cuts, has for Patrick Cote he knows is ground game is terrible why not work on that and go back to 205 where he would be so much healtier.

Same has phil baroni starting at 205 having unsuccessful fights going to 185 and now fighting at 170.

Varner got sick last time due to a huge weight cut and could not fight. The body is made to be a certain weight with our genetic, i feel its ok to cut maybe 5-10 pounds but when a fighter cuts 30 pounds before a fight that is just insane.

Or like Quinton Jackson after the movie the A Team cut 50 pounds before is fight against Rashad Evans. OUCH

[DB1982]

Im a huge fight fan.
And I have said for years now, that the weigh in should be 2-6 hours before the fight.
I hate when the big guys can't make it at their natural weight so they keep cutting n dropping weight classes until they gain an advantage .

I understand the whole process of the weight cut. But when one guy can cut 30 lbs to make weight then rehydrate and walk in the ring 15-25lbs heavier then the class he's fighting in. It now becomes who cut weight better and not who is the better fighter.

[stpete]

Nice topic. and i agree w/you guys. Especially ^^^^ the weigh in being just a few hours before the fight. I guess the main reason for it being so long prior id to find a replcement in time for the fight if someone doesn't make weight.

But yeah, dropping 30-50lbs is just nuts!

[yannick35]

Nice topic. and i agree w/you guys. Especially ^^^^ the weigh in being just a few hours before the fight. I guess the main reason for it being so long prior id to find a replcement in time for the fight if someone doesn't make weight.

But yeah, dropping 30-50lbs is just nuts!

spete all weight in all a few hours before the fights in kyokushin karate and tae kwon do it was the same, my TKD teacher competed at 117 pounds, he was a natural 135 pounder, we almost had to drag is ass to the scale, at one point he was 119 pounds and needed to lose 2 pounds to make weight this was freaken hell he got into a sauna and made weight barely. After the competiton we went to the restaurant he said no i do not want to eat to much i need to stay has close has i can to 117. This was just insane, worst competing in TKD we never made any money out of it.

[Far from massive]

Agreed on the weight cut deals, maybe have a weigh in 6 months prior where you have to be within 5% of fight weight then a second suprize weigh in like in drug testing where the guy could get the call at any time during the 6 months till fight date for a suprize check.

[DB1982]

Nice topic. and i agree w/you guys. Especially ^^^^ the weigh in being just a few hours before the fight. I guess the main reason for it being so long prior id to find a replcement in time for the fight if someone doesn't make weight.

But yeah, dropping 30-50lbs is just nuts!

I'm sure part of the reasoning is for the ability to find a suitable replacement.
One of my favorite fighters is Frankie Edgar for this reason he fights at his natural weight of 155lbs and was beating guys 20-25lbs heavier now.

Edgar vs Aldo fight next month is going to be a war. Although Edgar is now dropping down to 145lbs it still no where near as drastic as some of the bigger guys weight cuts.

[mojo999]

Agree totally. I use to box way back when, and had to lose weight to meet a certain weight class. Sure i lost weight, lost power, strength and inevitably the fights too... fighting at one's natural weight is best imho..

[HeadAndArm]

There definitely is a fine line between gaining an advantage and being totally drained.

[Zodiac82]

Im a huge fight fan.
And I have said for years now, that the weigh in should be 2-6 hours before the fight.
I hate when the big guys can't make it at their natural weight so they keep cutting n dropping weight classes until they gain an advantage .

I understand the whole process of the weight cut. But when one guy can cut 30 lbs to make weight then rehydrate and walk in the ring 15-25lbs heavier then the class he's fighting in. It now becomes who cut weight better and not who is the better fighter.

agree 100%....it becomes unfair to someone fightn at their natural weight....in the bigger grappling tournaments like pan ams u have to weigh in right before ur match....which is fair and the way it should be

[Knockout_Power]

This is how Randy was so succesful as a LHW. He would walk around @ close to 230-235, hard cut mass amounts of water till his kidneys bled and the moment he stepped off the scale he was on an IV drip till 4 hours prefight.

One of my favorite fighters is Franklin, and he was a hard cutter as well. Worked great until he had to cut to make weight to fight a skilled Silva. Not that Silva wouldnt have crushed him anyways, but in the first fight, Franklin looked like a heroine addict, he face was so sunk in.

Tiago Alves is another example. His body has gone into shutdown so many times, he cant even last a round.

The UFC claims they want to protect their fighters. If this were true, there should be a maximum allowable weight they can gain between weigh-in and pre-fight. Say something like 4%. If you made your 170 weigh in for welterweight, then you had to fight at a maximum weight of 176.8.... if you cant accomplish this, then leave the division or leave the UFC.

[Zodiac82]

If this were true, there should be a maximum allowable weight they can gain between weigh-in and pre-fight. Say something like 4%. If you made your 170 weigh in for welterweight, then you had to fight at a maximum weight of 176.8.... if you cant accomplish this, then leave the division or leave the UFC.

that would be fair/a good idea....or even there should be a max what ur able to cut 6 week out from ur fight....or a baseline if their walk around weight and a max cut from that

[MikeDealman]

Definitely agree, the weight cuts are too much.

[leethedane]

i did this about 4 years ago ...i was asked to take a fight in 4 weeks but had to cut 25lb all i ate was fish and rice cakes i felt so ill that 2 days before the fight i couldnt train anymore i had cut down to 205 but i didnt feel strong at all

[gearbox]

I do not think they are hurting there fighters with a day before weigh in. Its a personal decision. You want to be stupid and cut 25 lbs in a few weeks or days then go ahead. Look at spyder gsp jones benson all those guys stay very close to there weigh in weight cause they know cutting will be horrible and make you weak.
Rampage is a lazy ass who walks around fat before each fight and everyone knows he hates to train. You can't make weight then fight in the class above.

[DB1982]

I do not think they are hurting there fighters with a day before weigh in. Its a personal decision. You want to be stupid and cut 25 lbs in a few weeks or days then go ahead. Look at spyder gsp jones benson all those guys stay very close to there weigh in weight cause they know cutting will be horrible and make you weak.
Rampage is a lazy ass who walks around fat before each fight and everyone knows he hates to train. You can't make weight then fight in the class above.

I'm not saying they're hurting their fighters.
What I'm saying is its supposed to be ( who's the better fighter)
Not who can cut the the most weight to make a lower weight class then rehydrate and walk in the ring with an advantage over say another fighter who's body can't handle such a extreme weight cut

[leethedane]

that was a one off for me because IT IS STUPID im a hw but the fight was lhw so i agree with u they should all stay at the weight it suposed to be if u way in at 205 u should fight at 205

[DB1982]

Actually Anderson Silva walks around at 210-220lbs
GSP walks around at about 190lbs
Jon Jones walks around at about 230lbs.
Benson Henderson stays pretty close to his fight weight he says he likes to stay with in 10pounds.

They all cut weight some more so then others.
Shit even Lesnar and Carwin use to cut from 285+ lbs. To the heavey weight limit of 265lbs then rehydrate back to their normal weight.

[t-dogg]

Weight cutting is important. Its always in debate. Ive never understood why so many people bitch about it.


I also hate hearing about "walk around weight". It doesnt matter one bit.

[DB1982]

Weight cutting is important. Its always in debate. Ive never understood why so many people bitch about it.

I also hate hearing about "walk around weight". It doesnt matter one bit.

If I walk around at 230lbs and instead of fighting at Heavyweight or Light heavyweight and cut to 185lbs then rehydrate and walk in the ring weighing 200-210lbs but fighting at 185lbs that does matter.
Weight classes were created to keep the fights fare. But when you have fighters dropping 30-40lbs to gain an advantage because they can't compete at weight classes closer to their natural weight. That's where the problem lies.

Wheres the honor in beating a smaller opponent.

[lstbred]

Im a huge fight fan.
And I have said for years now, that the weigh in should be 2-6 hours before the fight.
I hate when the big guys can't make it at their natural weight so they keep cutting n dropping weight classes until they gain an advantage .

I understand the whole process of the weight cut. But when one guy can cut 30 lbs to make weight then rehydrate and walk in the ring 15-25lbs heavier then the class he's fighting in. It now becomes who cut weight better and not who is the better fighter.

x100, my guy's (fighters) are dumbasses, "hows your weight?" I gotta drop another 20#, In a 2 weeks? (insert stupid time line here) or a BJJ comp, they do the same thing. I dropped 15-20# for a BJJ comp and I wont do that again! I was weak, drained, couldnt really pull it together, so thats it. I will get down to a decent weight I'm comfortable at, that way if I have to I only have to drop a couple and not F myself up.

[Honkey_Kong]

I bet you these weight cuts are going to keep going on and keep getting more excessive until somebody on a high profile fight drops dead from it.

[t-dogg]

If I walk around at 230lbs and instead of fighting at Heavyweight or Light heavyweight and cut to 185lbs then rehydrate and walk in the ring weighing 200-210lbs but fighting at 185lbs that does matter.
Weight classes were created to keep the fights fare. But when you have fighters dropping 30-40lbs to gain an advantage because they can't compete at weight classes closer to their natural weight. That's where the problem lies.

Wheres the honor in beating a smaller opponent.

Ok to break this down for everyone. No one cuts 30-40lbs of water weight. No one! The most you will hear is 25lbs of water weight.



Next again walk around weight means nothing. Fighters have fight camps, and depending how out of shape they get depends a lot of time of the camp. There is a major difference between water weight and cutting fat. This gets mixed up all the time by people who aren't in the know of combat sports.


Just so you know, because I'm guessing you never have cut the more water weight you cut before a fight normally means you will be more drained come fight day. So how is this unfair? One guy cuts a lot and is typically drained to do it and the other guy is smaller and has more energy.

[DB1982]

Ok to break this down for everyone. No one cuts 30-40lbs of water weight. No one! The most you will hear is 25lbs of water weight.

Next again walk around weight means nothing. Fighters have fight camps, and depending how out of shape they get depends a lot of time of the camp. There is a major difference between water weight and cutting fat. This gets mixed up all the time by people who aren't in the know of combat sports.

Just so you know, because I'm guessing you never have cut the more water weight you cut before a fight normally means you will be more drained come fight day. So how is this unfair? One guy cuts a lot and is typically drained to do it and the other guy is smaller and has more energy.

The majority of weight cut before an upcoming fight IS WATER WEIGHT. Yes some is fat too.

And my point is if the weigh in was the day of the actual fight. You wouldn't see these bigger guys making the lower weight classes that they do now.
Essentially forcing them to fight opponents that are closer to their
Natural (walk around) weight.

And we are talking about Professional fighters here not the common amateur.
Most Pro's are not getting to far out of shape in between fights as one would suggest.
Yes of course they're in better shape during their training camp.
that's a given.

Point blank I'm not a fan of bigger guys cutting 30-40lbs to fight in lower weight classes.
I grew up watching boxing.
And there was a time when a fighters goal
Was to become a champion in his weight division then MOVE UP and take his skill to the next level.
Not move down against lesser opponents. That's just my feelings on the matter.

[t-dogg]

The majority of weight cut before an upcoming fight IS WATER WEIGHT. Yes some is fat too.

And my point is if the weigh in was the day of the actual fight. You wouldn't see these bigger guys making the lower weight classes that they do now.
Essentially forcing them to fight opponents that are closer to their
Natural (walk around) weight.

And we are talking about Professional fighters here not the common amateur.
Most Pro's are not getting to far out of shape in between fights as one would suggest.
Yes of course they're in better shape during their training camp.
that's a given.

Point blank I'm not a fan of bigger guys cutting 30-40lbs to fight in lower weight classes.
I grew up watching boxing.
And there was a time when a fighters goal
Was to become a champion in his weight division then MOVE UP and take his skill to the next level.
Not move down against lesser opponents. That's just my feelings on the matter.

Ok so this is a mma question on weight cutting and testing your logic on weight cutting.

Which makes better sense gsp vs Anderson OR Anderson vs jones. There is a correct answer.

[DB1982]

Ok so this is a mma question on weight cutting and testing your logic on weight cutting.

Which makes better sense gsp vs Anderson OR Anderson vs jones. There is a correct answer.

Silva vs Jones.
Both fighters natural weight are closer. 225-235lbs where's as GSP natural weight is around 190lbs.

But in this sense Jones can make the Heavy weight division but doesn't fight there because its a disadvantage to him fighting bigger guys. The same as Silva n gsp.
Make the weigh in the same day and watch all the fighter move up a weight class or 2

[t-dogg]

Silva vs Jones.
Both fighters natural weight are closer. 225-235lbs where's as GSP natural weight is around 190lbs.

But in this sense Jones can make the Heavy weight division but doesn't fight there because its a disadvantage to him fighting bigger guys. The same as Silva n gsp.
Make the weigh in the same day and watch all the fighter move up a weight class or 2

Incorrect. The correct answer is Anderson vs Gsp. Gsp fights at a much lower bf% then anderson. This is the point your not understanding.


You really have to get pasted this whole natural weight/ walk around weight.

[DB1982]

Incorrect. The correct answer is Anderson vs Gsp. Gsp fights at a much lower bf% then anderson. This is the point your not understanding.

You really have to get pasted this whole natural weight/ walk around weight.

BS then you tell me why GSP himself says he's to small to fight Silva at 185lbs right now. He said he would need enough time to put on weight so his body is trained to carry the extra weight. And as GSP naturally carries 190lbs that means he plans on gaining more weight just to in turn cut more.
Silva and Jones are a lot closer in size n body type then GSP n Silva.

You mean to tell me you think weight classes were originally created so bigger guys could cut lots of weight to fight in lower weight classes???
No
Weight classes were created to keep fights fair. So fighters would have to fight an equal opponent.
I repeat NOT drop 30lbs then fight in a lower weight class.

You are correct on one thing I have never been part of a cut. I train in and watch MMA. I don't fight.
And I don't fight for this vary reason.
I'm to small to fight at 170lbs
As I walk around at 175lbs. And the guys fighting at 170lbs are all naturally 190+lbs.
And I'm not forcing myself to cut to 155lbs.

And there was no correct answer just your opinion and I respect that.

It seems you would fit nicely in the group of guys I hang with.
We eat sleep and breath MMA.
And love to debate all things MMA

[DB1982]

On another note. I do hope GSP and Silva do meet at a catch weight of 180lbs like Silva purposed after Gsp turned down the fight at 185lbs.

I'm a huge Silva n GSP fan.
I love to see him fight Gsp then move up and fight J.Jones then retire.

I could careless for Jones while he has undeniable talent. His attitude rubs me the wrong way.

Another fight I'd love to see is Aldo vs B. Henderson different weight classes but Aldo should move up.

[t-dogg]

BS then you tell me why GSP himself says he's to small to fight Silva at 185lbs right now. He said he would need enough time to put on weight so his body is trained to carry the extra weight. And as GSP naturally carries 190lbs that means he plans on gaining more weight just to in turn cut more.
Silva and Jones are a lot closer in size n body type then GSP n Silva.

You mean to tell me you think weight classes were originally created so bigger guys could cut lots of weight to fight in lower weight classes???
No
Weight classes were created to keep fights fair. So fighters would have to fight an equal opponent.
I repeat NOT drop 30lbs then fight in a lower weight class.

You are correct on one thing I have never been part of a cut. I train in and watch MMA. I don't fight.
And I don't fight for this vary reason.
I'm to small to fight at 170lbs
As I walk around at 175lbs. And the guys fighting at 170lbs are all naturally 190+lbs.
And I'm not forcing myself to cut to 155lbs.

And there was no correct answer just your opinion and I respect that.

It seems you would fit nicely in the group of guys I hang with.
We eat sleep and breath MMA.
And love to debate all things MMA

Just so you know I was/am training full time in mma and also competed internationally in bjj. I train with one of the biggest teams out there. I understand bf% and weight cuts very well, thanks.


Ok gsp fights at a much lower bf% where as Anderson fights at around 10%, yes numbers I have are documented. Anderson "walks" around much higher in weight because of bf%. Gsp stays in shape year round and has been as high as 196lbs btw, fun little fact on fight day.

If gsp was at Anderson's bf% they would very close in weight, unlike jones who fights at a super low bf% to make 205lb. Hints why he's moving up in a year to heavyweight.


You can't base what they say, only numbers they have. There is a lot of bs said just for better pay days.

[t-dogg]

Just so you know I was/am training full time in mma and also competed internationally in bjj. I train with one of the biggest teams out there. I understand bf% and weight cuts very well, thanks.

Ok gsp fights at a much lower bf% where as Anderson fights at around 10%, yes numbers I have are documented. Anderson "walks" around much higher in weight because of bf%. Gsp stays in shape year round and has been as high as 196lbs btw, fun little fact on fight day.

If gsp was at Anderson's bf% they would very close in weight, unlike jones who fights at a super low bf% to make 205lb. Hints why he's moving up in a year to heavyweight.

You can't base what they say, only numbers they have. There is a lot of bs said just for better pay days.

Like I keep saying it only comes down to numbers. I can't stress enough about BF% and how big of a deal it is when it comes to cutting weight and how it fools so many people.

[t-dogg]

On another note. I do hope GSP and Silva do meet at a catch weight of 180lbs like Silva purposed after Gsp turned down the fight at 185lbs.

I'm a huge Silva n GSP fan.
I love to see him fight Gsp then move up and fight J.Jones then retire.

I could careless for Jones while he has undeniable talent. His attitude rubs me the wrong way.

Another fight I'd love to see is Aldo vs B. Henderson different weight classes but Aldo should move up.

Mark my words. Gsp will fight Anderson.



Btw another fun fact about Anderson, he used to fight at 168lbs. His bf% was much, much lower then.

[DB1982]

Mark my words. Gsp will fight Anderson.

Btw another fun fact about Anderson, he used to fight at 168lbs. His bf% was much, much lower then.

Silva fighting at 168 Yeah maybe a LOOOOOONG time ago. Before his pride days.


Anderson silva at 10% bf doubtfull maybe GSP at 10% but not Silva.

[DB1982]

Is this considered 10% bf

If it is, then I must be closer to 7-8% seeing how my abs are more visible and I'm 5'10" were Silva is 6'2".

I would say 15%bf for Silva.




So what weight class are you and what's your average lbs cut.

[t-dogg]

Is this considered 10% bf

If it is, then I must be closer to 7-8% seeing how my abs are more visible and I'm 5'10" were Silva is 6'2".

I would say 15%bf for Silva.

<img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133429"/>

So what weight class are you and what's your average lbs cut.

Anderson fights at 10% and that is documented online.


Ive been in a few weight classes. 160, 175 and 181lbs. I normally cut 15lbs for weight depending on the weight class. I stay pretty lean, and personally dont like big cuts. I like to be as fresh and back to normal weight as can be by the next day.

[DB1982]

Anderson fights at 10% and that is documented online.

Ive been in a few weight classes. 160, 175 and 181lbs. I normally cut 15lbs for weight depending on the weight class. I stay pretty lean, and personally dont like big cuts. I like to be as fresh and back to normal weight as can be by the next day.

You Sir have proved my point.

You said you normally cut 15lbs
to make the weigh in.
but you also states you like to be back up to normal weight by the next day
(fight day).
So say your fighting at 170lbs that means your walking into that ring on fight night at 185lbs.
And here in lies the problem
Say....

Fighter A (you) - fights at 170lbs but cuts from 185lbs. Then fight night walks in the ring at 185lbs.

Fighter B (opponent) - fights at 170lbs but his body doesn't allow him to cut as much weight because he feels to drained.
( everybody's body is different).
So he walks in the ring fight night at 175lbs..

Now he he giving up weight to you and now has to overcome your extra weight and your talent.

And this is only a tiny cut to some standards. Other fighters can cut twice as much weigh as you and regain most of it before the fight.

Making it that much harder for say a fighter that can't cut as much weigh to be competitive his natural weight class.

And thats the reason why I originally suggested a same day as fight weigh in.
You wouldn't be able to regain as much weight.

The real question is why don't you fight at 185lbs+ instead of cutting to a lower weight class.
Its more then likely because your to small. Seeming the fighters in that division are 200+ lbs and cutting to a lower weight.

I understand that this is the way the fight business works and nobody is going change it.

But what I think you fail to understand is weight classes weren't originally created
To allow bigger fighters to cut tons of weight to fight in a smaller weight division.
They were created to stop the bigger guys from fighting smaller opponent's.

Everybody wants an advantage over their opponent. Weather its extreme weight cuts or the use of PED's but that's the fight business today.

I voice my opinion but at the end of the day that's all it is , one mans opinion.

[t-dogg]

You Sir have proved my point.

You said you normally cut 15lbs
to make the weigh in.
but you also states you like to be back up to normal weight by the next day
(fight day).
So say your fighting at 170lbs that means your walking into that ring on fight night at 185lbs.
And here in lies the problem
Say....

Fighter A (you) - fights at 170lbs but cuts from 185lbs. Then fight night walks in the ring at 185lbs.

Fighter B (opponent) - fights at 170lbs but his body doesn't allow him to cut as much weight because he feels to drained.
( everybody's body is different).
So he walks in the ring fight night at 175lbs..

Now he he giving up weight to you and now has to overcome your extra weight and your talent.

And this is only a tiny cut to some standards. Other fighters can cut twice as much weigh as you and regain most of it before the fight.

Making it that much harder for say a fighter that can't cut as much weigh to be competitive his natural weight class.

And thats the reason why I originally suggested a same day as fight weigh in.
You wouldn't be able to regain as much weight.

The real question is why don't you fight at 185lbs+ instead of cutting to a lower weight class.
Its more then likely because your to small. Seeming the fighters in that division are 200+ lbs and cutting to a lower weight.

I understand that this is the way the fight business works and nobody is going change it.

But what I think you fail to understand is weight classes weren't originally created
To allow bigger fighters to cut tons of weight to fight in a smaller weight division.
They were created to stop the bigger guys from fighting smaller opponent's.

Everybody wants an advantage over their opponent. Weather its extreme weight cuts or the use of PED's but that's the fight business today.

I voice my opinion but at the end of the day that's all it is , one mans opinion.

I only cut 15lbs because I don't use directics. If I wanted to cut more weight I could.

[t-dogg]

Ok just got home from traveling. If weight classes were not made to cut weight there wouldnt be approx 15lbs between classes. boxing is different in how they do it thought. They actually make you start cutting weight 30days out, and it has to be documented and you have to be at a certain weight.

[DB1982]

They were meant for a person to cut weight that is with in those 15lbs classes. Not skip over a class but cutting to a lower one.
I.E. you could fight at 185lbs but choose to fight at a lower class.

Your cut really ist that bad its the ones the big cuts that bother me. Someone cutting twice as much as you do. You know say 30-40lbs that's the shit that's crazy.

[m_donnelly]

I was a solid high school wrestler and had to routinely cut 15-20 pounds of water each week (210 down to 189lbs). I can tell you that, although I was good at cutting weight, the extra 20lbs didn't serve me well on the mat as my body fat was high. I could cut down and rehydrate quickly but I never felt the weight was that much if an advantage. I had much more success when I leaned down to 200lbs and only had to 11lbs.