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  1. #1
    WEBB's Avatar
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    Cardio on an empty stomach???

    Cardio on an empty stomach, Good or Bad??? please discuss as to why or why not.

    i have always done it but i am unsure i have read that it might be better to eat first, so you dont waste muscle.

    HELP

  2. #2
    MrMent1on is offline National Level Bodybuilder
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    cardio is done on an empty stomach first thing in the morning. when you first wake up there is no energy present (no carbs). so by doing cardio on an empty stomach your body has to tap into your stored energy (fat) for energy. in other words if you eat then do cardio it will first burn the food present, the food you just ate.

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    Regardless on how thick this one gets I"m staying out of it. This will go pages and pages if allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMent1on
    cardio is done on an empty stomach first thing in the morning. when you first wake up there is no energy present (no carbs). so by doing cardio on an empty stomach your body has to tap into your stored energy (fat) for energy. in other words if you eat then do cardio it will first burn the food present, the food you just ate.
    agree with this
    i do cardio 5 am on empty stomach and ive seen great results

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    WEBB's Avatar
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    i hear what your saying Mr.ment1on, but do you think that instead of burning fat since your glycogen levels are low, your body will actually produce cortisol while in a fasted state and doing cardio, that will in turn lead to muscle loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMent1on
    cardio is done on an empty stomach first thing in the morning. when you first wake up there is no energy present (no carbs). so by doing cardio on an empty stomach your body has to tap into your stored energy (fat) for energy. in other words if you eat then do cardio it will first burn the food present, the food you just ate.
    i thought this too, cause thats what everyone here says...but when ur body taps into an energy source it may use muslce to...i have no evidence on it...but why would it burn just fat and not muscle...

  7. #7
    chinups Guest
    Just do it and lvoe it. END OF DISCUSSION!

  8. #8
    WEBB's Avatar
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    i do it and i love it, but when getting ready for a comp its important not to lose any muscle, or as little as possible anyway. so i was hoping to get a general consensus on how everyone feels.

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    why not use some test prop, clen /t3 ? with cardio in the am

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    Quote Originally Posted by WEBB
    i hear what your saying Mr.ment1on, but do you think that instead of burning fat since your glycogen levels are low, your body will actually produce cortisol while in a fasted state and doing cardio, that will in turn lead to muscle loss.
    even if you lose some muscle you are doing cardio for fat loss i assume. the muscle you can always put back. very fair trade.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMent1on
    cardio is done on an empty stomach first thing in the morning. when you first wake up there is no energy present (no carbs). so by doing cardio on an empty stomach your body has to tap into your stored energy (fat) for energy. in other words if you eat then do cardio it will first burn the food present, the food you just ate.

    agreed...low intensity cardio

  12. #12
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    If you keep your heart rate below 75% or so of your MHR, and don't go longer than 45 mins or an hour, you should be golden.

    I'm paranoid as well, I bring scrambled egg whites and green beans to the gym with me to eat them immediately after cardio

    I also take 5g glutamine before cardio.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctorherb
    agreed...low intensity cardio
    Yea I try to walk on a 15 level incline for a half hour at 4.0 speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WEBB
    your body will actually produce cortisol while in a fasted state and doing cardio, that will in turn lead to muscle loss.
    Ahhhhhhh keep going.......





    Quote Originally Posted by chinups
    Just do it and lvoe it. END OF DISCUSSION!
    Easy to say but hard to do buddy. The fraction of a pound can put you in a completely different weight class. Everything needs to be covered to the Tee when competing..





    Quote Originally Posted by farrebarre
    why not use some test prop, clen/t3 ? with cardio in the am
    Some do but you still want to take the most effective route possible. Plus T3 is a nondiscriminatory compound, have to be careful with that one.




    Quote Originally Posted by 1819
    even if you lose some muscle you are doing cardio for fat loss i assume. the muscle you can always put back. very fair trade.
    Statisitcs say, on average of course, that only 6-8lbs. of actual LBM can be gained a year naturally. Tough to risk losing some of that hard earned LBM if there are routes to aviod that. PLus its much harder for some (me) to put on LBM then it is to lose BF%. We're all looking for the best possible answers with this.




    Quote Originally Posted by AandF6969
    I also take 5g glutamine before cardio.
    What effect odes the Glutamine have?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhova
    Some do but you still want to take the most effective route possible. Plus T3 is a nondiscriminatory compound, have to be careful with that one.
    what does that mean ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by farrebarre
    what does that mean ?
    Means it doesnt discriminate and doesnt care wether it breaks down fat or muscle. IMO T3 is something more need to research before taking. Can be a great synergist for some but very catabolic for others.
    Last edited by SPIKE; 05-03-2006 at 01:34 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctorherb
    agreed...low intensity cardio
    Always listen to this man, he's full of knowledge.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhova
    Means it doesnt discriminate and doesnt care wether it breaks down fat or Protein. IMO T3 is something more need to research before taking. Can be a great synergist for some but very catabolic for others.
    aha aiight, thnx bro

  19. #19
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    What about combining your weight training and cardio into one session:

    6am, eat 1/3 cup of oatmeal and 20grams of whey.
    6:45am train with high intensity
    7:30am cardio - low intensity 30 minutes
    8:00am, eat 50-75grams of whey.

    Is this wasted effort? I heard from a couple of people that this can be pretty effective - even for contest prep.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJames
    6am, eat 1/3 cup of oatmeal and 20grams of whey.
    6:45am train with high intensity
    7:30am cardio - low intensity 30 minutes
    8:00am, eat 50-75grams of whey.
    Do you think from 6-7:30 is enough time to burn through what you just ate? While your body is trying to metabolize that meal you're in the gym using it as energy to get you through your W/O.

    I get what you're saying as I do the same James. I love Cardio PWO, assuming that glycogen stores are tapped it can be very effective.

    Statistics will prove that it takes 15-20 minutes at THR to burn through Stored Glucose before even looking at fat to be utilized. So the key phrase in your statement was "Train high intensity" making sure carbs are out of the way and gluconeogenesis will result. We know dam well fat is readily available, lets put it to work. The key is how..............
    Last edited by SPIKE; 05-03-2006 at 01:49 PM.

  21. #21
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    glutamine helps with kepping your body anti-catabolic, i believe. so adding it before your cardio on an empty stomach wouldnt hurt,
    i do roughly 35-40min of cardio in the morning on an empty stomach. i keep my heart rate at 126 or so, which is exactly where it should be. i also take clen and niacin in the morning. the niacin just helps get me warm and get a sweat going.

  22. #22
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    Statistics will prove that it takes 15-20 minutes at THR to burn through Stored Glucose before even looking at fat to be utilized. So the key phrase in your statement was "Train high intensity" making sure carbs are out of the way and gluconeogenesis will result. We know dam well fat is readily available, lets put it to work. The key is how..............[/QUOTE]

    Interesting post Jay, when dieting I have always done carido first thing in the morning on a empty stomach. But this has got me thinking of carido PWO.

    How much effect do you think would doing carido PWO have in regards to muscle loss. Your Body is in a very catabolic sate after high intensity training and is crying out for PWO nutrition. Witch do you think would burn more muscle. Doing carido PWO or on a empty stomach ??

  23. #23
    Big Bapper's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=WEBB]glutamine helps with kepping your body anti-catabolic, i believe. so adding it before your cardio on an empty stomach wouldnt hurt,
    i do roughly 35-40min of cardio in the morning on an empty stomach. i keep my heart rate at 126 or so, which is exactly where it should be. i also take clen and niacin in the morning. the niacin just helps get me warm and get a sweat going.[/QU

    I think your body would try to use the glutamine for energy.

  24. #24
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    I take some BCAA's and a thermogenic right after I wake up and then do cardio between 65-70% MHR

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sooners04
    I take some BCAA's and a thermogenic right after I wake up and then do cardio between 65-70% MHR


    this is exactly what i have been doing pre-contest, and has worked great, however with 2 weeks left im up to 2 45 minute sessions a day...thank god i get to back off a bit next week

  26. #26
    SPIKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bapper
    I think your body would try to use the glutamine for energy.






    Quote Originally Posted by sooners04
    I take some BCAA's and a thermogenic right after I wake up and then do cardio between 65-70% MHR
    I love BCAA's prior to cardio as well!!! I've seen studies backing both sides as far as why they're good and/or dont do anything. I feel that they put up a great defense wall for protecting LBM as fat is being utilized for energy. The problem in that statement is that there are studies showing otherwise. It's one of those "what works for you" deals.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bapper
    Interesting post Jay, when dieting I have always done carido first thing in the morning on a empty stomach. But this has got me thinking of carido PWO.

    How much effect do you think would doing carido PWO have in regards to muscle loss. Your Body is in a very catabolic sate after high intensity training and is crying out for PWO nutrition. Witch do you think would burn more muscle. Doing carido PWO or on a empty stomach ??

    If this has worked for you in the past buddy keep doing it.


    This takes us back to my previous post in the above thread. I really believe that its based on the individual and what works for them. I have worked with many people over the past 6+ years as a trainer. I have tried different methods with all types of people keeping my fingers crossed for more definite answers. Regardless of protocol results always vary.

    If asking me what works for me then I'd say AM cardio at THR on a complete empty stomach. If PWO then I'll take a few BCAA's PWO and crank out 20-25 min at a lower ended THR (65%). This is what has worked for me. Has eaten away at LBM with some that I've worked with and others preserve it all. If you stop and think about it, kind of crazy how our body has more control over certain things then we do.
    Last edited by SPIKE; 05-03-2006 at 09:27 PM.

  28. #28
    SPIKE's Avatar
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    Here's a quick study on AM cardio on an empty stomach:

    Int J Sports Med 1988 Jun;9(3):240-3 Related Articles, Links

    Energy metabolism during exercise at different time intervals following a meal.

    Willcutts KF, Wilcox AR, Grunewald KK.

    Department of Physical Education, Dance and Leisure Studies, Kansas State University, Manhattan 66506.

    The objective of this study was to compare caloric expenditure and substrate utilization during exercise begun at different time intervals following a standard test meal or in the fasted state. Eight physically fit women (aged 21-27 years) participated in four separate exercise trials. In three trials, the subjects consumed a 940-kcal meal following an overnight fast and began exercising either 30, 60, or 90 min after the meal. In the other trial, the subjects did not consume any breakfast prior to exercising. Energy expenditure and substrate utilization were determined by indirect calorimetry during the last 23 min of a 30-min run on a treadmill at an average work load of 62% VO2max. There were no significant differences among trials when comparing the total caloric expenditures (range: 215-219 kcal). However, the subjects oxidized significantly more fat (94.3 kcal) when they exercised on an empty stomach than when they exercised 60 or 90 min after the meal (71.6 and 68.8 kcal, respectively) (P less than 0.05). It was concluded that consumption of a meal prior to exercise does not increase the energy cost of the activity for physically fit women, but it does disrupt the pattern of substrate utilization, reducing the contribution of fat as an energy source.

  29. #29
    MrMent1on is offline National Level Bodybuilder
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    Quote Originally Posted by tele20
    Yea I try to walk on a 15 level incline for a half hour at 4.0 speed.
    next time try walking at 2.5

  30. #30
    MrMent1on is offline National Level Bodybuilder
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    Yes indeed it is a good argument. Muscle loss could be an issue depending on the intensity and duration of your morning cardio session as well as your nutritional status. But argue about it? Why not tackle the issue of muscle loss head on? Simply measure your body fat and calculate your lean mass, then you'll know if you're losing muscle or not. unfortunately we dont really have the time nor proper tool to do this. so Jay is correct we could debate this fo rthe next 2 weeks, lol. so until we have a solution we will have to roll with the punches. take the good with the bad. I do not have a solution. does anyone?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMent1on
    Yes indeed it is a good argument. Muscle loss could be an issue depending on the intensity and duration of your morning cardio session as well as your nutritional status. But argue about it? Why not tackle the issue of muscle loss head on? Simply measure your body fat and calculate your lean mass, then you'll know if you're losing muscle or not. unfortunately we dont really have the time nor proper tool to do this. so Jay is correct we could debate this fo rthe next 2 weeks, lol. so until we have a solution we will have to roll with the punches. take the good with the bad. I do not have a solution. does anyone?

    That's what we're trying to do buddy, too many variables to form one simple answer though....

    This is what each any every person needs to do to come to their own conclusion. Not rely on the results and answers of others as they will widely vary.

    I figured at least 2 full pages, we still have a while to go

  32. #32
    Big Bapper's Avatar
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    I think your body would try to use the glutamine for energy.[/QUOTE]

    Jay so you dont think in a fasted sate first thing in the morning your body would use whatever you put in to your stomach for energy meaning it would try to convert the glutamine for use as energy ??

    You are going to have to understand Jay I am not sitting here with a bunch of books and studies around me to back things up, everything I say comes straight from my head. Just trying to learn.......

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sooners04
    I take some BCAA's and a thermogenic right after I wake up and then do cardio between 65-70% MHR
    I think doing carido on a empty stomach ater using a thermogenic would cause a great deal of muscle loss. I would leave the Thermogenic till after carido.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhova
    If this has worked for you in the past buddy keep doing it.


    This takes us back to my previous post in the above thread. I really believe that its based on the individual and what works for them. I have worked with many people over the past 6+ years as a trainer. I have tried different methods with all types of people keeping my fingers crossed for more definite answers. Regardless of protocol results always vary.

    If asking me what works for me then I'd say AM cardio at THR on a complete empty stomach. If PWO then I'll take a few BCAA's PWO and crank out 20-25 min at a lower ended THR (65%). This is what has worked for me. Has eaten away at LBM with some that I've worked with and others preserve it all. If you stop and think about it, kind of crazy how our body has more control over certain things then we do.
    Yes carido first thing in the morning has worked to great effect with me, just like everyone else here I am just trying to find out how to preserve as much muscle as possible when dieting. So my thoughts were it takes all that time to burn stored glyogen stores before you can get access to the stored bodyfat
    then surely after a workout your body would have burned the stored glyogen so your body would be in a fat burning sate ??

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bapper
    Jay so you dont think in a fasted sate first thing in the morning your body would use whatever you put in to your stomach for energy meaning it would try to convert the glutamine for use as energy ??
    Bap, look back to post #26 and the smileys I placed after quoting what you stated about this topic, I agreed with you not disagreed. You looking for a fight?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bapper
    Yes carido first thing in the morning has worked to great effect with me
    Just add in "on an empty stomach" and I'll give the thumbs up all the way.

    IMO eating before cardio is counter productive, no matter what your intensity is it will use the food for energy. You want to mobilize triglycerides to break down into FFA's and be put in the blood stream for fuel, not use what you just ate for fuel, hence counter-productive.

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    .....

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhova
    Bap, look back to post #26 and the smileys I placed after quoting what you stated about this topic, I agreed with you not disagreed. You looking for a fight?
    Are you asking ?? Only joking Bro. Must have miss read post.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bapper
    Yes carido first thing in the morning has worked to great effect with me, just like everyone else here I am just trying to find out how to preserve as much muscle as possible when dieting. So my thoughts were it takes all that time to burn stored glyogen stores before you can get access to the stored bodyfat
    then surely after a workout your body would have burned the stored glyogen so your body would be in a fat burning sate ??
    Carido on empty stomach I mean...............

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMent1on
    next time try walking at 2.5
    Can i ask why so slow? When I walk at the incline of 15 at 4.0 it burns around 350-360 cals in a half hour. Does even this speed have the effect of muscle loss?

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