Dieting Down Issues...a likely culprit?

[BigGreen]

Okay, my "history" is that of a VERY skinny individual when I started training (165 @ 6'1") and I have, in the last two years, been able to peak at an offseason weight of about 250 pounds. Possibly as a result of my history as a skinny person, I can do so while retaining an incredible amount of definition in the limbs, though i smooth out somewhat in the torso...something I can easily live with. I imagined that my ability to get to a decent weight without throwing on layers of fat would make dieting down somewhat easier than it might be for some of my buddies who bulk up to 80 pounds over contest weight. This year, i started dieting down for a show at 10 weeks out with the hopes of going from 250 to 220 (give or take a pound or two on either side). The first four weeks went incredibly well, losing 3 pounds per week as planned. After that, however, the proverbial shit hit the fan. Muscle was literally melting off as fast as fat, and any attempt to slow the process down really blurred my definition.

I was using an ECA stack as well as cytodyne's thermongenic MRP. Carbs were being cycled at 50 grams per day for two days, then bumping up to 250 grams or so every third day in an attempt to keep my body believing carbs could be used as fuel without sending me out of whack. This was my first attempt at competing, and i ended up withdrawing when i weighed in week before at 207 looking far more like an abercrombie boy than a bodybuilder I know this is a vague description...but is there a likely culprit when this occurs to someone? I was incredibly dissapointed and hope to remedy this for the next go around (not till next year). Any thoughts?

[Gene]

Ouch 250 -> 207, I can imagine the feeling of being an abercrombie boy. Honestly, I suspect you lost some muscle early on without knowing it as you started dropping some water and glycogen weight. If I were you I would experiment in the off season (if you have access to consistent professional bodyfat measurements this will make your life very easy) by cycling carbs for varied periods of time. Try 5-6 days low with a 1 day carbup. 2 days might not be enough for proper hormonal changes to take place for the carb-up to have any effect -- many make the mistake of doing this purely numerically but dont consider the effect on their hormonal system.

I definitely recommend a trial run in the offseason, trying to get yourself into approximate 2-4 weeks out shape with a better game plan to make sure you dont drop an ounce of muscle.

Also, how much cardio have you been doing, what were your workout splits, what was your protein/fat intake, etc?

Good luck

[BigGreen]

My workouts were gradually bumped up in intensity...the approx 12 week cutting period as far as workouts were concerned, looked roughly like this (i know it doesn't answer all your questions)

Week 1: Workouts unchanged, cardio 3x/week@20mins, diet unchanged
Week 2: workouts unchanged, cardio to 25 mins, carbs down 10%
Week 3: Workouts moved to after cardio, cardio same, carbs same
Week 4: Workouts unchanged, cardio same, carbs down 10%, none after 5pm
Week 5: Workouts unchanged, cardio 30 mins, carbs same, ECA introduced
Week 6: Workouts ALL 13-15 rep range, cardio same, carbs same
Week 7: Workouts unchanged, cardio 35 mins, carbs down 10%
Week 8: Workouts now consist of three sets for every bodypart, cardio same, carbs down 25%, protein up 50%, ECA dosage doubled (to recommended amount)
Week 9:Workouts unchanged, cardio same, carbs down 25%
Week 10: Workouts and cardio same, carbs down to <40grams on non workout days 250 or so on workout days. Protein up to 350 grams on workout days

It was about at week six that my weekly measurements showed i was getting smaller in all bodyparts, but by no means leaner, as had been the case for the first six weeks. I may have made some drastic changes at the point in my carb and protein sourcees in a panic and threw myself out of whack, because pics show i certainly looked the best at about week 6...it was very much downhill from there. Strangely enough, i didn't lose very much strength at all, but did literally shrink. Anyway, thanks for the input thus far.

[primodonna]

What AS were you taking? (if any)?

You dropped your carbs to 50g for a few days the first week you started dieting? Probably too soon to go that low...and 250g for your carb up isn't high enough for someone your weight that early

[Dr. Derek]

You need to diet longer. Cardio is the killer of most people because they get into the mind frame leaner is better, and that is true but you have to be patient diet RIGHT, not 50 grams of carbs a day, and just believe that it will come together. Get someone who knows thier shit about diet and training to help and observe you. I think that you'll notice a big difference when your not doing your own diet and critquing yourself. Good Luck

Where you using T-3 by chance, and why use ECA if you already have a fast metabolism and I think 1 or 2 lbs a week is more reasonable, probably the lower end 1lb.

[BigGreen]

I have yet to ever use AS, with creatine or methoxy-proteins probably being the most "unnatural" supplements i use. As i review these posts, as well as others, it is clear to me that really went about this the wrong way...this was the first time i was attempting to diet down for something other than "beach shape" and was serious about a contest. Ironically, it's the worst i've ever looked while leaning out - probably as a result of overkill. You guys are right in saying i probably didn't need ECA and certainly cut carbs far too much...hell, i may not have even needed a real increase in cardio at first and might have gotten away with decreasing rest times. Are there any 'golden rules' when it comes to dieting down sensibly? I firmly believe i would present a phenomenal all around package if i could diet sensibly...i was 251 at 13.5% bodyfat (done with calipers by personal trainer - I would have estimated slightly higher) and clearly lost more than i should have...being just over 205 with what (didn't have measured) i estimated to be about 8% bodyfat...so i definitely went about this the wrong way.